Input on multiple snakes in one tank.

[Kaorte]

Actually guys, a tad more attention to detail, or perhaps more clarity on my part, would clue you in to the fact that I'm not now inquiring about snakes and keeping them together, frankly, that's been beaten to death for now, but in this dominance/heirarchigal thing that has been mentioned.

I have seen it in lizards. I have seen it in tortoises. I have seen in birds. I have not seen it in snakes. This interests me.

It has been said in this very thread that it has been stated by "several breeders" that this occurs when snakes are housed together.

I'd like to discuss this. If it's true, I have learned a new thing. That would please me. If it's not true, how many of you are or were already, saying that it was without one single bit of evidence?

So, a couple of you spoke up about this. Please, share what you know, where it came from, and what methods the conclusion was reached by.

Thank you.

It would be great if there was some sort of experiment or study done to see if there was in fact dominance, but I am certainly not going to house my snakes together just to find out.

I am going to guess most people who have enough snakes to do this type of experiment wouldn't want to.

Just a few days ago there was a thread where someone was keeping two hatchlings together. One was eating perfectly fine, but the other had not taken a meal. He separated them and within 2 days the non-eater started eating again. To me this points to "dominance".

As for breeding, yes the smaller males can breed the larger female.

[Ben Biscy]

Cool. That's a very mammalian point of view. Are you using other mammalian based arguments for keeping?

My dog does better when I let him sleep in my room than when I make him sleep outside. I can see this in his demeanor, appetite and general attitude. I suppose I should, therefore, start sleeping with my snake.

Logically speaking, it's true.

So, still looking for FACTS, afterall there are, unless the posters were just flat out lying, "several breeders" or was that BIG breeders, out there who have said this is true.

If you can post it in public, you can back it up. Or retract it.

are you a politician? if not, you should be. really.

i'm starting to appreciate your point of view though. if many people say it, it must be true, right?

you could be a little more tactful in your approach to prove a point though.


ime, i've never seen multiples attempt to dominate each other. as mentioned earlier, i've noted from observation that multiples will share a hide if that is the optimal spot for them at that time. i've never witnessed any fighting or attempts at domination from housing together. sure, it's generally accepted that individual housing is best. however, it's also pretty much common practice for sellers and shops to house together, several of one species per habitat. i've never heard of a dominance issue with bp's from multiple housing.

[midtx350z]

Male bp's can breed starting at around 350g, which still a small snake. It depends on the male though, not all would breed at that size. I personally house them all separately, and that's just my choice. No need to have scientific backup for me, it just makes sense. It's up to each individual keeper to make that housing decision. You WILL end up with babies at some point in the near future. That may sound like fun until you try to find homes for normal males and such. I don't know your situation, so that may work for you.
On a side note, that little reduced guy on the top left in that pic is a smoker!
Good luck!

Thanks!

Can you tell if any of them are morphs? We were told the big girl is a pastel.

[wilomn]

It would be great if there was some sort of experiment or study done to see if there was in fact dominance, but I am certainly not going to house my snakes together just to find out.

I am going to guess most people who have enough snakes to do this type of experiment wouldn't want to.

Just a few days ago there was a thread where someone was keeping two hatchlings together. One was eating perfectly fine, but the other had not taken a meal. He separated them and within 2 days the non-eater started eating again. To me this points to "dominance".

As for breeding, yes the smaller males can breed the larger female.

And an issue with the pecking order would be the ONLY possibility that this snake may have not been eating while housed with another?

It's age, how much yolk it may or may not have still had, what food was offered and the manner in which said food was given, I suppose none of those things could have had any bearing whatsoever on that little guys firing up.

Were you there to see that both babies were treated identically? I ask not to say I doubt your word, I have no reason to. I ask because from what I have seen once a snake is singled out for special attention, like the one that was not eating, they are often treated differently than those who need no extra attention. Be it an extra offering of food, different lighting, temps, humidity, duration of offer, many variables come in to play simply because that snake "needs" extra care. It's not a bad thing, but if both were treated exactly the same and they reacted exactly the same then there may be grounds for a theory that X equals Y. But, if you don't know they were treated exactly the same, your theory is faulted before you have begun and any results will also be invalid.

[midtx350z]

Keeping secrets from your fellow keepers in just not nice.

I'm going by what i've read on several websites, that's it. I didn't start this thread to discuss snakes cuddling. Start your own thread.

[Kaorte]

Thanks!

Can you tell if any of them are morphs? We were told the big girl is a pastel.

All normals! But they are all very beautiful and unique!

As for the whole dominance issue, wilomn, maybe you would like to start a discussion thread? It is a very interesting topic with basically no facts to back it up (as far as I know).

[rabernet]

Thanks!

Can you tell if any of them are morphs? We were told the big girl is a pastel.

All appear to be normals. The big girl is not a pastel.

[Skiploder]

a
ime, i've never seen multiples attempt to dominate each other. as mentioned earlier, i've noted from observation that multiples will share a hide if that is the optimal spot for them at that time. i've never witnessed any fighting or attempts at domination from housing together. sure, it's generally accepted that individual housing is best. however, it's also pretty much common practice for sellers and shops to house together, several of one species per habitat. i've never heard of a dominance issue with bp's from multiple housing.

This doesn't mean necessarily that two snakes shouldn't be kept together.

It means that not enough hides were made available.

Multiple snakes can be housed together - but several things should be considered:

- the species of the snakes involved
- the ages of the snakes
- the size of the enclosure
- the number of hides available in the various thermoregulation zones

There are several species of snakes where breeders and keepers, oftentimes, house them together.

Just because it's easier to house them independently doesn't mean you have to.

Would I recommend housing multiple animals together? No. But not because of some behavioral study that has never been conducted or for the propagation of some internet conventional wisdom. I recommend it only because it is EASIER to house animals singly.

[Joe Cope]

Just meant that it's a very nice looking snake...as in "smokin!"

In that case I like the bottum left

He's a smoker.

[Spaniard]

My dog does better when I let him sleep in my room than when I make him sleep outside. I can see this in his demeanor, appetite and general attitude. I suppose I should, therefore, start sleeping with my snake.

If its your prerogative to do so by all means; be sure to check your local laws, I'm not sure sleeping with your snake is legal everywhere.

If you meant you want to start sleeping with your snake in your room then I would say your logic is flawed. Comparing dogs and snakes are like comparing apples and oranges.

You don't have to agree with my logic but its worked very well for me so far. Nor am I saying anyone else should take my logic for more than it is; MY logic.