Caramel Pastel Mystery

[BChambers]

If you get more "pastels" it could also be that your caramel is the spontaneous mutant.

Paternity tests would be so helpful in areas like this. If it does end up seeming like the caramel is also pastel then you could double check that his reported parents are indeed really his parents and if so pretty much nail down exactly where the mutation took place.

I agree-I've double and triple checked this guy's parentage. His parents are definitely the individuals pictured above. We'll be watching these future hatchings and breedings VERY carefully, and I'll keep everyone posted.

[kc261]

It is unlikely that this guy has a pastel parent, unless that slightly odd looking one that was pictured is just the most unpastel-like pastel ever. I considered the possibility of retained sperm in that breeding, but it would have had to be pastel het caramel, and I suspect if the breeder had one of those available, he would not have been breeding the pair that was "just" het caramel.

[Mike Schultz]

I considered the possibility of retained sperm in that breeding, but it would have had to be pastel het caramel, and I suspect if the breeder had one of those available, he would not have been breeding the pair that was "just" het caramel.

I have heard of someone breeding a mojave and a spider male to the same normal female and producing both mojave and spider babies (different sperm fertilized different eggs)- so retained sperm could have been the answer, had the female been locked up with a pastel before the caramel father. The fact that it was a virgin female makes it very interesting...

[kc261]

I was referring to the parents of the caramel father, so the grandparents of the pastel that showed up in this clutch. Sorry I wasn't clear enough.

[Mike Schultz]

Ah ok

[akaangela]

Congratulations. That is a nice pastel! It will be interesting to see what comes of the same breeding next year.

[RebelYell83]

only issue with that would be,the pastel gene,would have to show up in the caramel produced from the het to het,also impossible,we KNOW it is a caramel dad and het girl,the caramel doesnt appear to be a pastel caramel,and it neight parent was direct pastel het caramel,then it is impossible,

[AaronP]

only issue with that would be,the pastel gene,would have to show up in the caramel produced from the het to het,also impossible,we KNOW it is a caramel dad and het girl,the caramel doesnt appear to be a pastel caramel,and it neight parent was direct pastel het caramel,then it is impossible,

Not impossible, improbable. How do you think morphs come in to being in the first place? Morphs are nothing more than genetic "mishaps" that randomly occur. I personally think the prospect of a spontaneous mutation occurring in a captive bred environment is extremely exciting, especially if it's a co-dom animal.

[RebelYell83]

I was referring to the parents of the caramel father, so the grandparents of the pastel that showed up in this clutch. Sorry I wasn't clear enough.

this is what i was referencing,,,not the likelyhood of it suddenly happening,,as thats how ALL morphs had to happen

i was addressing the poster saying the het caramel mother retained sperm from a pastel,when it produced the caramel in question

[kc261]

Well, I'm not commenting one way or the other on whether or not he is a pastel caramel vs just caramel based on his looks, because I don't know enough about what a pastel caramel would look like.

However, I did say that if it was an issue of retained sperm, it would have had to be from a pastel het caramel, so I'm not really sure why you are saying that is impossible?

I considered the possibility of retained sperm in that breeding, but it would have had to be pastel het caramel