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Thread: Chemtrails

  1. #81
    BPnet Veteran Serpents_Den's Avatar
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    Re: Chemtrails

    Quote Originally Posted by PythonWallace View Post
    I'm not denying that jets put out contrails. I've never really cared about "chem-trails" very much, but now my interest is peaked. I didn't see any 100% fact proof in these, but it's interesting reading for skeptics like myself.

    Rep. Kucinich's HR 2977
    Names Chemtrails As
    An 'Exotic Weapon'
    By Lorie Kramer
    seektress@ev1.net
    1-10-2

    After years of denial from government, military, and environmental agencies, the reality of the controversial issue regarding the covert programs known as Chemtrails has been acknowledged.

    On October 2, 2001 Congressman Dennis Kucinich, Ohio introduced H. R. 2977 during the 1st Session of the 107th Congress of the United States. The "Space Preservation Act of 2001" seeks to "preserve the cooperative, peaceful uses of space for the benfit of all humankind by permanently prohibiting the basing of weapons in space by the United States, and to require the President to take action and implement a world treaty banning space-based weapons."

    In the bill Chemtrails are listed as an "exotic weapons system". Ironically in Section 7 - Definitions. The complete text of the bill may be found at Clifford Carnicom's website, "Chemtrail Crimes and Coverup Documented".

    The bill also addresses such things as particle beams, electromagnetic radiation, plasma, or extremely low frequency (ELF) or ultra low frequency (ULF) energy radiation, and mind-control as weapons. All of these areas have been researched and pondered by those investigating chemtrails and working to gain accountability for those programs.

    They can't have it both ways. Water vapor is not a weapon.

    This is a call to all those of conscience. This is a time when action is needed. It is time. The lies have gone on long enough. We can tell the Air Force and the Navy and the other agencies involved in this criminal activity, "No, You may NOT own the Weather ...Period!" We may not have another chance.

    On behalf of the members of Chemtrail Tracking USA, Clifford Carnicom's Board, Chemtrail Central and the many other groups and individuals working diligently to get accountability, we urge your listeners to respond. Contact government and media, demand answers. If not now, when?

    We know what we see. We did not consent. We want it stopped.

    To see text of HR 2977:
    http://www.carnicom.com/hr2977.htm


    Rep. Kucinich's Bill is also listed at this US Government site:

    http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/...c107h.lst:2901


    Note regarding particulars of HR 2977 -

    The 'Space Preservation Act of 2001' deals mainly with space as defined by ALTITUDE. Granted, we don't receive reports of chemtrails or contrails in space.

    The bill states "SEC. 7. DEFINITIONS. In this Act:

    (1) The term 'space' means all space extending upward from an altitude greater than 60 kilometers above the surface of the earth and any celestial body in such space."

    However, in Section 7, 2 (C) it states.

    "The term 'exotic weapons systems' includes weapons designed to damage space or NATURAL ECOSYSTEMS (such as the ionosphere and upper atmosphere) or CLIMATE, WEATHER, and tectonic systems with the purpose of inducing damage or destruction upon a target population or region on earth or in space." (emphasis added.)

    This would definately include the altitude at which chemtrails are found.

    In addition, in Section 7 - Definitions, it is stated in (2)(A) "The terms 'weapon' and 'weapons system' mean a device capable of any of the following: (ii) Inflicting death or injury on, or damaging or destroying, a person (or the biological life, bodily health, mental health, or physical and economic well-being of a person)--(III) by expelling chemical or biological agents in the vicinity of a person."

    Here, of course, the word "vicinity" would need further definition. But chemtrails fit the bill (pun intended) as a weapons program that is threatening the biological life, bodily health, mental health, and the physical and economic well-being of millions of people.

    HR 2977 has a lot to be desired as a bill in relation to chemtrails. This in no way negates the fact that chemtrails have been named as an exotic weapon in a congressional document.

    For battle weary chemtrail researchers and activists, this is very important. Whether Rep. Kucinich intended it or not, he has handed us the can opener to the biggest can of worms he has probably ever seen. We intend, with our flags in hand, and as loud a voice as can be collectively gathered, to open the can. -LK


    Army Aerial Spraying Tests Panic, Anger Florida Keys Residents
    http://www.rense.com/general24/we.htm

    US admits chemical weapons tests BBC 10/10/02 Original Link:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2315081.stm

    Of Microbes and Mock Attacks - 51 Years Ago, The Military Sprayed Germs on U.S. Cities
    http://www.rense.com/general15/ofmicrobesandmock.htm

    Military Said Behind Up To Four Different Chemtrail Programs
    http://www.rense.com/general11/chmmill.htm

    Also see:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez More..?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=15082100&query_hl=2

    Finally, PUBLIC LAW 95-79 [P.L. 95-79] TITLE 50, CHAPTER 32, SECTION 1520 "CHEMICAL AND BIOLOGICAL WARFARE PROGRAM" "The use of human subjects will be allowed for the testing of chemical and biological agents by the U.S. Department of Defense, accounting to Congressional committees with respect to the experiments and studies." "The Secretary of Defense [may] conduct tests and experiments involving the use of chemical and biological [warfare] agents on civilian populations [within the United States]." -SOURCE- Public Law 95-79, Title VIII, Sec. 808, July 30, 1977, 91 Stat. 334. In U.S. Statutes-at-Large, Vol. 91, page 334, you will find Public Law 95-79. Public Law 97-375, title II, Sec. 203(a)(1), Dec. 21, 1982, 96 Stat. 1882. In U.S. Statutes-at-Large, Vol. 96, page 1882, you will find Public Law 97-375

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f27_1199846714&p=1

  2. #82
    BPnet Veteran panthercz's Avatar
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  3. #83
    BPnet Veteran Serpents_Den's Avatar
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    Re: Chemtrails

    Being ignorant is not so much a shame as being unwilling to learn.
    Benjamin Franklin -

  4. #84
    BPnet Veteran PythonWallace's Avatar
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    Re: Chemtrails

    What's currently being debated or debunked here?

    Jets create contrails. - - I didn't think this was ever challenged here

    All trails left by planes are contrails. - X - Does any one have any documents showing this to be a fact, or will anyone challenge the authenticity of the Miami Herald, Washington Post or BBC articles I posted that claim chem trails are real and have admittedly been used in the past?

    The trails and tic-tac-toe patterns regularly seen all over are contrails. - X - This is open for reasonable debate.

    Contrails can take anywhere from a few seconds to several hours to dissipate, depending on environmental conditions. - X - This is up for reasonable debate. I'd like to see some data for this one. From my own experience, the contrails created by jets at local air shows all seem to dissipate within a minute or so, no matter what year it is. The planes I see over Joliet always leave trails that seem to last for hours, no matter what day it is. Can this difference in contrails be explained by variables other than environmental factors?

    I'm sure everyone here did stupendously in their high school debate clubs, but when I'm involved in a discussion, name calling and using the argument that "if you think differently than I do you are stupid", does not count as debate. I think I did an okay job of finding credible sources to make an argument for the existence of chem trails, so does anyone of you care to post anything other than childish opinions of character?

    You are all so sure of your sides that I'm sure you can scrounge up some evidence. I'll just check back later. Since name calling is no longer an acceptable argument, I suspect that I'll only find tumbleweed blowing around when I come back. But I hope I don't. I'd like to satisfy my own curiosity here.
    What are these mojavas I keep hearing so much about?

    J. W. Exotics

    Reptile Incubators

  5. #85
    BPnet Veteran m00kfu's Avatar
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    Re: Chemtrails

    Quote Originally Posted by PythonWallace View Post
    Contrails can take anywhere from a few seconds to several hours to dissipate, depending on environmental conditions. - X - This is up for reasonable debate. I'd like to see some data for this one. From my own experience, the contrails created by jets at local air shows all seem to dissipate within a minute or so, no matter what year it is. The planes I see over Joliet always leave trails that seem to last for hours, no matter what day it is. Can this difference in contrails be explained by variables other than environmental factors?
    Can't give you any "official" data for this one, but I can say that I've lived a few miles from the MBS Airport here in Michigan for 2 years now. The contrails from the jets over here do last for hours, and have for as long as I can remember when I was living 30 miles away also -- back into the mid-80's.

  6. #86
    BPnet Lifer mainbutter's Avatar
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    Re: Chemtrails

    Planes don't fly at 35,000 feet during air shows. Heck they don't even fly at 5,000 feet.

  7. #87
    BPnet Veteran littleindiangirl's Avatar
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    Re: Chemtrails

    What is the point of giving studies, when the first answer is cover up?

    Contrails resemble cirrus clouds, which, are made up of ice crystals, and persist for many hours at high altitudes.

    Why should I then believe that ALL contrails MUST dissipate within a few moments? That makes no sense whatsoever.

    If any one has taken a science class, generally it is taught about the different kinds of clouds and formations clouds can take.

    Cirrus clouds (or sometimes called mare tails) are just as persistent and long lasting as contrails in the same conditions.

    The atmosphere is not one big medium of consistency, in fact it is constantly churning, turning. Jet streams, rising hot air, cold fronts, all atmospheric conditions have an effect on moisture condensation in the air.

    If someone wants to read an easy to read, normal down to earth logical article, I suggest starting here.
    http://www.iangoddard.com/contrail.htm

    I again do not understand why asking for evidence against a conspiracy theory is worth any time. Because quite consistently it will be labeled as a cover up.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to littleindiangirl For This Useful Post:

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  9. #88
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    Re: Chemtrails

    I fail to see how anything can go through a jet engine burning at thousands of degrees and still be intact coming out the other end.

  10. #89
    BPnet Veteran PythonWallace's Avatar
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    Re: Chemtrails

    Thanks for being the first person to actually post something worth reading. I think I had already read that one, and it seems like an objective article. So now we agree that chem trails do exist, and that they have at the least, been used in the past, over U.S. cities. Correct?

    The main argument here so far has been that there is no such thing as chem trails, even after I posted main stream articles to the contrary. Since I thought that that was the argument, I was looking for things along the lines of official denial of the existence of chem trails, or libel cases charging investigative journalists, news outlets, websites or government personnel with publishing false claims. Basically anything at all, since I took the time to look for articles that document the use of aerosol spraying over the U.S. population using planes, and all I've seen in return was sheep-like responses, with no real debate.



    You keep calling the existence of chem trails a conspiracy theory, and refusing to post any data you might have because it will just be blindlessly discredited as a cover up, yet I posted sources that changed the opinion from theory to legitimate, and I have yet to blindly discredit something here. If you've noticed, I refuse to use shady or subjective articles or sources here. I'm a pretty smart guy, and I have nothing to gain by discrediting anybody without reasonable contrary information. I also never made any claims, and only asked questions and posted some info for debate.
    What are these mojavas I keep hearing so much about?

    J. W. Exotics

    Reptile Incubators

  11. #90
    BPnet Veteran PythonWallace's Avatar
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    Re: Chemtrails

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenn View Post
    I fail to see how anything can go through a jet engine burning at thousands of degrees and still be intact coming out the other end.
    Thanks for that data. To play devil's advocate, how hot do you have to heat barium before it goes through a chemical change that creates nothing other than benign byproducts?

    And for the record, I'm not denying that there are thousands of planes that in fact do not contain any aerosol spraying devices, and that there are likely a few people here who have piloted such planes. The argument that since some planes exist that aren't equipped with chemical delivery systems is as valid of an argument as saying that it is impossible for there to be corn in vomit, since you and people you know have thrown up for years with no corn being present. If one of those people eats some corn on a puke day, that will change. I promise.
    What are these mojavas I keep hearing so much about?

    J. W. Exotics

    Reptile Incubators

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