Well mike, I do want you to know very frequently we do have 40+ babies in our tubs at a time. Believe it or not some people have larger liters than others. For a long time we were using a local rodent diet that was at 23% protein. This is when we had larger production from our females. Our numbers have only fallen off recently due to the age of our breeders. So i will ask this question in response to you. How old are your breeders. We have been breeding softfurs now for almost 3 years. I finally retired our first set of breeders about 6 months ago. I am sure you will question this aswell but if you would like to "call" me a liar its ok. My wife did not lie about these figures. We have decide that facts are facts. I had 140 babies in one month with 4 bins with trios. If I didn't average close to 20 a mom I wouldn't have done those kind of numbers. Just goes to show you what 2 know nothings can do.