I know this thread is several years old, and shame on me for bringing it up again ^^" But I was just wondering about some things in this thread that really, really gets under my skin and makes me think.

I have not once, never, seen a conclusive thread with pictures showing deformed or kinked spiders from a spider x spider cross. I haven't heard of a dramatic loss of eggs, such as a spider carrying female normally laying around 6-10 eggs, but suddenly drop down to 4 when mated with a spider, every time, over and over again.

Now, this thread was created several years ago, we have come a long way since then in understanding morphs and how they work. IF there was a lethal part of spider x spider crossings, surely there would be plentiful of evidence by now, yes? So...show me. Anything? O_o

Also there was talk about a 'super pin' but that sounds wrong to me as well, since pin is dominant, and I've never heard about a super pin before. This talk about "super spiders" and "super pins" looking just like the 'one gene' animals....really? How many super version morphs are there that looks JUST like the one gene one? Why would pin and spider be the ONLY super that doesn't have a super look to them? That isn't logical at all.

I know there have been talk about how the spider gene restricts a certain protein in the animal during development, and this causes not only the coloration but also the wobble since that protein have to do with the neurological functions as well. Double set of this gene sounds likely to be lethal, so I understand people's concern, but after this many years, where is the proof?

Also, if the babies do die before they even develop, then what's the harm in that, really? All that happens is that you get a few less eggs that start their development if that is true.

I think cinny x cinny, or cinny x black pastel that created kinked babies are far worse...many of those babies are alive when hatching and then die from kinked bodies.

IF a spider x spider creates 1-4 eggs less by the 25% less, then isn't that up to the breeder to choose to have more spider morphs born in the clutch, but less egg as a total?

I have crossed my spinner blast with my spider male, since she would not accept my two other males. I don't see a risk with this, other than knowing I will get a lot more spiders and spider based morphs. I honestly don't think there will be kinked or dead born babies, because I have yet to see any proof of this happening to someone else.

Also I've been told that the wobble might get worse, but once again this makes no sense for me. If a spider can only be viable with one spider gene, then biologically and genetically that animal is no different from the composition of the spider that produced it (it has it's own set of dna and is unique compared to it's parents, but I mean morph wise). You can't suddenly have a spider gene that behaves differently than the source, that doesn't sound right. In order to increase color, behavior or wobble, you would need 'more' and if two genes stops the development from the start then this can not happen.

Sorry for bringing such an old thread back to life, but yeah....we have come a long way and it would be fun to see some fact laid down on the table instead of rumors and old thinking.