Which morphs are stabalizing, which are dropping?

[nixer]

I have another question that maybe will have less depressing answers, maybe not...


Are we close to hitting a wall with the ability to create "new morphs" or are the possibilities endless? Is there a point soon where everything we can create will have been created? Will the only options then be the redundent "Hmm.... Is there anything else I can mix pied into?" ?

Or are there brand new morphs waiting to be discovered in the wild? Are there even wildly cool combos still to be made with what we have in our colections now?

considering the fact that we have trade embargos with some of the countries that ball pythons live. any kinda answer one way or another would be a guess. also whos to say that those countries didnt smuggle them to one we do trade with and send them here

[Slim]

considering the fact that we have trade embargos with some of the countries that ball pythons live.

We have trade embargos with Togo and Ghana

[Mike Cavanaugh]

Dizzy, you meet doomsday predictors anywhere you go.... Why start listening to them now?

[PythonWallace]

jake thats not the arguement. for someone that is actually in the business of only snakes! well then they cannot hold back and pay feed bills for hundreds of animals. at some point you have 2 choices sell lower and cut losses or just go broke and loose everything you own then do it.

we see this all the time here jake and you know it as well as i do you have seen the same ppl selling online snakes for hundreds less online than at the show and the other way around some even with the same exact snake.

its not only kingsnake its on fauna also. are we going to compare retail to wholesale or breeder prices and most petstores are charging 100$ for a 5$ CH import. also note that most breeders do not change their prices on their site yet they sell everywhere for less even from the same breeder.

all ive even seen in threads like these is quality(which is personal preference) vs quantity(which you get ugly ones even while selective breeding). then its nerd(sorry kara and kevin) this or big daddy that or flipper this or whoever someone happens to be ranting about at the moment. either way do you think that nerd doesnt breed 100's of quality pastels and nothing but.

awhile back we had this same discussion with asfs and pricing of them. also rodent food. its all the same supply demand! its all reaganomics!

Unless you're talking about guys like that rarepythons dude, people who only breed snakes for a living have all started out smaller and built a reputation that got them to the point where they were selling enouh animals to make it a career. I'm just saying that there are way too many people unnecessarily crashing the ball market by trying to have the cheapest animals. I have done practically no advertising, and I have yet to build any kind of reputation in this hobby. My only exposure comes from posting on this site. Yet people still manage to find me and buy my higher priced animals. That tells me that the demand does not warrant the never ending price dropping on ball pythons. People like Adam, Ralph, NERD, and plenty others do this for a living and have no problem moving animals, without lowering their prices. People have talked about how every spider hatched in '07 was sold at '07 prices with a list of people who were willing to pay those prices to get their hands on an '08, but then as soon as some breeders started hatching out '08 spiders the price tags were automatically dropped some random amount and now anyone who wants to sell a spider has to be competative with these guys who marked down prices for absolutely no reason. It's the same for every morph once there are enough people working with them. It seems to have nothing to do with supply and demand, and everything to do with 300 breeders all trying to have the cheapest priced animals because they can't afford to take care of what they produce. That's why I don't see any morphs stabalizing, and it just seems stupid and counter productive for profits. I have no one in mind when I say this, but if more breeders bred for quality and worked hard at getting their names out there and building a reputation instead of popping out as many mediocre morphs as possible and making sure you mark them as cheap as they come, this hobby would have a shot at a true supply and demand relationship that most markets use, and prices would be able to stabalize a bit. The question was, which morphs will stabalize in price, and the only answers I can think of are the morphs which haven't gotten into the hands of too many of these price droppers yet, or the newer $10,000 morphs. Once they do, it seems like all morphs will innevitably end up in the $50-$100 price range, no matter how great the demand or the high prices people are willing to pay for such stunning animals, and investment opportunities, for the ones who make a living breeding them.

[Brandon Osborne]

Jake, I couldn't agree with you more.

[mricyfire]

Prices will always drop until actual licenses are needed to breed, as of right now anyone can breed, which makes more on the market to sell, everyone wants to make money so they sell less than the other guy and it will remain to get lower.

Another problem is the snakes except the triple and double morphs have no real monetary value, it is just what someone thinks they should be worth, but if you ask me all Co-Dom should be the same price, all Recessive should cost more, but all roughly the same price...feel me?

[PythonWallace]

Prices will always drop until actual licenses are needed to breed, as of right now anyone can breed, which makes more on the market to sell, everyone wants to make money so they sell less than the other guy and it will remain to get lower.

Like I said, I don't drop prices to be the cheapest and people still find me and buy my snakes. From what I've seen, people who have the most expensive bps have no problems making sales, because the demand is huge. Price droppers seem to be underestimating the demand that's out there.

Another problem is the snakes except the triple and double morphs have no real monetary value, it is just what someone thinks they should be worth, but if you ask me all Co-Dom should be the same price, all Recessive should cost more, but all roughly the same price...feel me?

They do have value. How many people out there want a champagne and aren't going to wait for them to be $500 before they purchase one? There are plenty of people, therefor the demand says that they do have the valuie of the pricetags. If a new morph is found and there are people who want to buy that snake for $50,000, then they successfully breed it and hatch out a few and sell out in a week at $20,000 a piece, what about this scenerio dictates that they don't really have value? And if they didn't have value, why would combos suddenly have value? I'm not feeling your logic

If I had the money, I'd buy a clown or a piebald for $4000, but I'd never pay that for an axanthic or a hypo. They just aren't on the top of my list. Most people seem to like pieds more than axanthics, so if pieds were selling out at higher prices, I don't understand why the prices should be the same as axanthics if they aren't selling as fast. If all co-doms were the same price, fires, lessers, champagnes, etc would sell out quickly while the available YBs and other subtler morphs sat in breeders' racks. I think supply and demand would be a good enough model here.

[FIREball]

Prices will always drop until actual licenses are needed to breed, as of right now anyone can breed, which makes more on the market to sell, everyone wants to make money so they sell less than the other guy and it will remain to get lower.

In Florida you do need a license, not to breed but to sell. All you need is to register for a ficticious name and pay $50 to renew your license every 12 months. Don't really think this has to do with falling prices.

[mricyfire]

...

point taken, but on the other hand I have seen pies going for $600 and albinos for $500, sure it was someone that doesn't frequent web forums, but their ignorance proves that you can buy one for way less...which just shows there is no standardized pricing, thus making value what the seller has it as.

Adam @ 8Ball selling his pied for $1800 while this kid sells his for almost a 1/4 the price...same snake see where I am going?

The reason I say combos have more value is it clearly takes a lot of time and money to make recessive combos.

I know my arguement was poorly written, but not saying that they should be the exact same price, but when you have the same type of snake for example the co-doms (all prices quoted are from 8Ball)

Pastel: $100, Cinnamon: $250, Lesser: $600; Enchi Pastel: $500 (wish there were some YB and Butters) but just from these the prices are pretty sparatic for the same snake with a different paint job.

Not saying I have anything against what people charge, but if there was more standardized pricing to justify prices than prices would be more stable.

Hopefully what I trying to say makes sense.

In Florida you do need a license, not to breed but to sell. All you need is to register for a ficticious name and pay $50 to renew your license every 12 months. Don't really think this has to do with falling prices.

LOL @ Florida laws very easy to circumvent...I think that law applies to big breeders, but not sure they could do anything if I had a small operation at home.

[nevohraalnavnoj]

I think that I regret starting this thread at all... It's kinda scaring me... I agree with all the posts about breeding for the love of the breed and not the money... But I had expected to see some return on my investments to sink back into the hobby. If it's going to cost me more to rent a table and pay for gas to get to a show than I can make selling animals at that show... I think I will end up with more mouths to feed than I can handle long term.

Many of the small breeders I know treat shows as a public relations venture. Very rarely do they make a profit at a show. Even some of the larger breeders I have talked have said the same thing. Online sales were the bulk of their sales.

JonV