Which morphs are stabalizing, which are dropping?

[PythonWallace]

All the prices are dropping too fast. I only breed what I have room to keep indefinitely. I produced some nice animals, and priced them all at the high end of the already ridiculously low market prices. If I don't sell a single animal I'm more than happy to raise them up myself. But guess what, I'm almost completely sold out of my '08 animals with only a single ad on this site and a single ad on fauna. There's absolutely no reason for people to continue dropping prices on every morph when it's so obvious that the demand still warrents the higher prices. With a thousand small time get-rich-quick breeders all trying to have the cheapest animals, it's a non stop cluster bomb of unwarranted market crashes. That's just the way this hobby goes, there's no such thing as stable prices.

[azpythons]

Dont worrry people there gonna outlaw interstate trade of ball pythons soon, so you guys could sell em for more within state limits!!! woo hoo!!!

[nixer]

All the prices are dropping too fast. I only breed what I have room to keep indefinitely. I produced some nice animals, and priced them all at the high end of the already ridiculously low market prices. If I don't sell a single animal I'm more than happy to raise them up myself. But guess what, I'm almost completely sold out of my '08 animals with only a single ad on this site and a single ad on fauna. There's absolutely no reason for people to continue dropping prices on every morph when it's so obvious that the demand still warrents the higher prices. With a thousand small time get-rich-quick breeders all trying to have the cheapest animals, it's a non stop cluster bomb of unwarranted market crashes. That's just the way this hobby goes, there's no such thing as stable prices.

jake thats not the arguement. for someone that is actually in the business of only snakes! well then they cannot hold back and pay feed bills for hundreds of animals. at some point you have 2 choices sell lower and cut losses or just go broke and loose everything you own then do it.

we see this all the time here jake and you know it as well as i do you have seen the same ppl selling online snakes for hundreds less online than at the show and the other way around some even with the same exact snake.

its not only kingsnake its on fauna also. are we going to compare retail to wholesale or breeder prices and most petstores are charging 100$ for a 5$ CH import. also note that most breeders do not change their prices on their site yet they sell everywhere for less even from the same breeder.

all ive even seen in threads like these is quality(which is personal preference) vs quantity(which you get ugly ones even while selective breeding). then its nerd(sorry kara and kevin) this or big daddy that or flipper this or whoever someone happens to be ranting about at the moment. either way do you think that nerd doesnt breed 100's of quality pastels and nothing but.

awhile back we had this same discussion with asfs and pricing of them. also rodent food. its all the same supply demand! its all reaganomics!

[Mike Cavanaugh]

If you think there are hundreds of animals sold a pet shops for every one sold on the internet you are fooling yourself. Yes I sell to pet shops, but 99% of my business has been from internet sales for the last 10 years.....period.

I guess we are not in the same market. As I said, my market is everywhere. I see prices all over the map, all the time. These are MARKET PRICES. The market will always dictate prices, not the seller. If animals are not selling at $250, the market price is not $250. Show me some normal hatchlings for $50 with no added genetics. Those are retail prices, not market prices. Market price and pet shop price are not the same. So yes, if you own a pet shop and you sell normals, then you can get $50 for them. Most ask $80-100. Can I sell them for that? The answer is plain and simple.....NO.

Peace

Ok. I now understand your confusion. You think that consumers don't buy hundreds of snakes in pet shops for each one they buy online...

You also think that just because you are not a pet shop you can not ask for and get a price based on current market (or as you say retail) value.

I would really recomend a sales workshop for you.


Mikey

PS
I would be happy to bet my entire life savings that the going price for spiders in 09 will not be under $100.

[Brandon Osborne]

All the prices are dropping too fast. I only breed what I have room to keep indefinitely. I produced some nice animals, and priced them all at the high end of the already ridiculously low market prices. If I don't sell a single animal I'm more than happy to raise them up myself. But guess what, I'm almost completely sold out of my '08 animals with only a single ad on this site and a single ad on fauna. There's absolutely no reason for people to continue dropping prices on every morph when it's so obvious that the demand still warrents the higher prices. With a thousand small time get-rich-quick breeders all trying to have the cheapest animals, it's a non stop cluster bomb of unwarranted market crashes. That's just the way this hobby goes, there's no such thing as stable prices.

Hooray! Someone that gets it.

[Brandon Osborne]

Ok. I now understand your confusion. You think that consumers don't buy hundreds of snakes in pet shops for each one they buy online...

You also think that just because you are not a pet shop you can not ask for a price based on current market value.

I would really recomend a sales workshop for you.


Mikey

PS
I would be happy to bet my entire life savings that the going price for spiders in 09 will not be under $100.

Mikey, please open your eyes and read my post again. I DID NOT say the GOING PRICE for spiders in 09 will be under $100. I said the price will break $100.

And there is no confusion. Show me a pet shop that sells tons of spiders and I'll show you 10 breeders that sell twice as many. There is a good reason many petshops have closed their doors in recent years......internet. Some just know how to do it.....breeding their own animals or buying at ridiculous prices. Yes, prices that are way below what I have stated.

Further more, I do ask current market prices. I sold my spiders this year for $250-300. Why? Because that is what they are worth to me. Pastels?.....males $100 and female $200. I also sold my mojos for $350-450 because I had extremely nice ones, while my friends were selling theirs for $200-250. Trust me, I don't need a sales workshop. lol. Again, it's not about what I do. It's about what the market IS doing.

Adult proven male ghost $250 at Daytona from one of the "big names". Sub-adult/adult male Enchi for $125...same thing. Market is market.....not what you think it should be or what you want it to be.


I apologize again if I hurt your feelings. We all have an investment in this and want our returns as high as possible. Some are ahead, and some are way behind. Trust me, I am way ahead. I know all about expense vs. profit margin, etc.

[Mike Cavanaugh]

........

[XGetSome]

Sadly with todays economy, many many people breeding morphs....etc. Prices will Drop dramatically. People getting laid off, Hours getting cut, and Bills piling up will mean less money to blow on ball pythons. People would rather put gas in their cars, and food on tables then spend it freely like they had in the past. The way to survive is make Good choices, like selective breeding and Making triple genes, quadruples, codom recessives....etc. But...I'm not in this for money thank god.....

[dizzy]

I think that I regret starting this thread at all... It's kinda scaring me... I agree with all the posts about breeding for the love of the breed and not the money... But I had expected to see some return on my investments to sink back into the hobby. If it's going to cost me more to rent a table and pay for gas to get to a show than I can make selling animals at that show... I think I will end up with more mouths to feed than I can handle long term. I would love to have 34523456 pet BPs but that just won't work for me. I need to be able to sell a few pieds and albinos so that I can buy axanthics het for pied because what I truely want is an axanthic pied. I need to sell some bees to afford to buy a clown to make what I really want, albino clowns... Etc, etc, etc.

I wonder if the majority of the reason prices are falling is the economy, and if that being the case the market will go back up when the economy gets better.... Or if these are permanent prices... I think really only time will tell with that and hopefully it will turn out well for those of us who stick with the game, versus those that sell their collections because they were in it for the money.


I have another question that maybe will have less depressing answers, maybe not...


Are we close to hitting a wall with the ability to create "new morphs" or are the possibilities endless? Is there a point soon where everything we can create will have been created? Will the only options then be the redundent "Hmm.... Is there anything else I can mix pied into?" ?

Or are there brand new morphs waiting to be discovered in the wild? Are there even wildly cool combos still to be made with what we have in our colections now?

[Slim]

Dizzy, my point has been all along that if you breed quality animals, you will get quality prices, in most cases. Do yo' thang girl!