Grumpy Ball Python

[Caali]

Hi,

I've been a bit worried about my 10 month old ball python. Let me just tell describe my experiences:
The first thing I've noticed is that he doesn't use his warm hide anymore. Normally he would change between his warm and his cold hide on a regular basis but he suddenly decided to stay in his cold hide. He has not gone to his warm hide in like two months. Despite him not going into his hide he still hangs out on top of his hide right under the heat lamp (which is, of course, in a cage).
I thought that the hide might be dirty so I cleaned it thoroughly but he's just not interested. I just let him be and thought that it was ok for him to stay in his cold hide if he wants to.
About two weeks ago he went into shed. He refused to eat (which he has done only once before and that was when I first got him). Again I thought that it might be because he was in shed. Now he has shed (in one piece) and he hasn't left his cold hide ever since (for four days he has just stayed in his hide). Normally he would a least peek out of his hide but he doesn't even get up at night. Today I got a little scarred so I sprayed him with a little bit of water to see if he's still alive which woke him up.
I might be a bit overly worried but I just want to know if it is a sign of something bad or if my husbandry is faulty.


These are a few other details about him:

1. He weighs about 550g and is about 37 inches long.
2. The temperature is at 87 degrees on the warm side and 79 degrees on the cold side.
3. The humidity is around 55% but I have to spray a few times a day.
4. It hasn't been a week since the last time I tried to feed him (the time he refused because he was in shed), so I haven't tried it again. He is due this Sunday.
5. He eats small rats once a week.
6. It's been a bit loud the past few days, since I just got a bigger terrarium for him. It was so big that it was difficult to transport it to the first floor. I'm a bit worried that all the ruckus might have disturbed him.
7. Since he has gotten quite big, I had to buy new caves. I've replaced the hide on the warm side but I still haven't replaced the one on the cold side since that one is a bit bigger.
8. He has not shown any aggressive behaviour.
9. I don't handle him and I only take him out if I have to clean his terrarium. That is also the time when I take a look whether he looks healthy (which he does).
10. I don't use an underheat mat. I do have one and I also have a thermostat but I don't use them anymore since it seems like he is doing better without it.


Thanks to everyone in advance.

[tttaylorrr]

immediately i see a few red flags:

2. The temperature is at 87 degrees on the warm side and 79 degrees on the cold side.

you warm side is too cold. the floor over the hot spot should be 90° F. how are you reading and taking temperatures?

6. It's been a bit loud the past few days, since I just got a bigger terrarium for him. It was so big that it was difficult to transport it to the first floor. I'm a bit worried that all the ruckus might have disturbed him.

the move could definitely be contributing to his sudden reluctance to move about the enclosure.

7. Since he has gotten quite big, I had to buy new caves. I've replaced the hide on the warm side but I still haven't replaced the one on the cold side since that one is a bit bigger.

i'm confused: you bought new hides because he's outgrown the old ones, but you haven't replaced the cool side hide because it's bigger?? EDIT: are your hides identical?

10. I don't use an underheat mat. I do have one and I also have a thermostat but I don't use them anymore since it seems like he is doing better without it.

so you use a heat lamp for heat, correct? is it a bulb or CHE? is that being controlled by a thermostat as well?

answering these questions can help me (or others) narrow down some things to get to the bottom of this. TBH when i saw the thread title, i was expecting to read about a snappy baby and i was aaaalllll ready to share my journey with taming down my feisty Coffee Bean lol.

[Caali]

immediately i see a few red flags:

you warm side is too cold. the floor over the hot spot should be 90° F. how are you reading and taking temperatures?

the move could definitely be contributing to his sudden reluctance to move about the enclosure.

i'm confused: you bought new hides because he's outgrown the old ones, but you haven't replaced the cool side hide because it's bigger?? EDIT: are your hides identical?

so you use a heat lamp for heat, correct? is it a bulb or CHE? is that being controlled by a thermostat as well?

answering these questions can help me (or others) narrow down some things to get to the bottom of this. TBH when i saw the thread title, i was expecting to read about a snappy baby and i was aaaalllll ready to share my journey with taming down my feisty Coffee Bean lol.

Thanks for the help. I really appreciate it. Here are the answers to your questions:


1. I use a a digital thermometer from Lucky Reptile (https://www.amazon.de/Lucky-Reptile-.../dp/B002CWWR2S). It's a bit imprecise.
Inside the hide it should about 90 degrees. The hide is right under the heat lamp but the sensor is a bit further away. That's why it's often a few degrees colder. I've put the sensor inside the hide a few times when he was in the other one and the temperature was always fine.
There's a thermostat attached to the heat lamp but has never become active since the temperature is really stable. It's programed to stay between 31 degrees Celsius and 34 degrees Celsius which is, as far as I know, the right temperature for a ball python.

2. The hide situation is a bit more difficult. Someone gave my an old hide when I first got my ball python and I thought it was a good size. Since I read that it's better to have identical hides, I bought the same model but for some reason the new one was slightly smaller (but just barely, almost not noticeable).
Now I've bought two new (identical) ones but I've only replaced the one on the hot side because I thought that could encourage him to leave the other one. He still fits into the smaller hides but if he grows any bigger, he will lift the hides up.
I thought of changing the bigger hide to his smaller hide again(the one I replaced) but I'm afraid to stress him out because he seems quite stressed already that's why I didn't change it again. That's also the reason why I haven't replaced the other hide yet.

3. I'm not sure what a CHE is but I use a heat lamp. I've used it for 4 month (that's all the time he's been in the terrarium; he was in quarantine before that) and I haven't experienced any problems with it up until now. It's an infrared heat lamp. I know that he can see the infrared heat but I've done lots of research and found this to be the best way to heat his terrarium. He has not had any problems with the bulb all this time I had him in my terrarium.

[tttaylorrr]

you're very welcome.

1. I use a a digital thermometer from Lucky Reptile (https://www.amazon.de/Lucky-Reptile-.../dp/B002CWWR2S). It's a bit imprecise.
Inside the hide it should about 90 degrees. The hide is right under the heat lamp but the sensor is a bit further away. That's why it's often a few degrees colder. I've put the sensor inside the hide a few times when he was in the other one and the temperature was always fine.
There's a thermostat attached to the heat lamp but has never become active since the temperature is really stable. It's programed to stay between 31 degrees Celsius and 34 degrees Celsius which is, as far as I know, the right temperature for a ball python.

where is the thermostat probe located exactly? can we see a picture of your setup? a picture might give us a better idea along with your descriptions.

2. The hide situation is a bit more difficult. Someone gave my an old hide when I first got my ball python and I thought it was a good size. Since I read that it's better to have identical hides, I bought the same model but for some reason the new one was slightly smaller (but just barely, almost not noticeable).
Now I've bought two new (identical) ones but I've only replaced the one on the hot side because I thought that could encourage him to leave the other one. He still fits into the smaller hides but if he grows any bigger, he will lift the hides up.
I thought of changing the bigger hide to his smaller hide again(the one I replaced) but I'm afraid to stress him out because he seems quite stressed already that's why I didn't change it again. That's also the reason why I haven't replaced the other hide yet.

i say just swap the hides out for the new identical ones, then give him a couple days undisturbed and see what happens afterwards.

3. I'm not sure what a CHE is but I use a heat lamp. I've used it for 4 month (that's all the time he's been in the terrarium; he was in quarantine before that) and I haven't experienced any problems with it up until now. It's an infrared heat lamp. I know that he can see the infrared heat but I've done lots of research and found this to be the best way to heat his terrarium. He has not had any problems with the bulb all this time I had him in my terrarium.

CHE = ceramic heat emitter. it is a ceramic bulb that produces heat but does not produce light. CHEs tend not to dry out the enclosure as much as IR bulbs do, but if yours is working for you that's just fine.

i feel there's quite a few factors happening at once, so we can't really isolate an issue. maybe photos of your enclosure can help. TBH i think it's weird that, when he does go over to the warm side, he sits RIGHT under the lamp. this behavior makes me think his hide is just not warm enough, so he needs to sit on top and exposed to regulate; once he's warm, he immediately gets to safety.

[Caali]

The picture is a bit older but the setup is still the same (the hides are still the old ones).
On the left is the warm side of the terrarium and the cold one is on the other side. You can see the probe but it's a bit further down at the moment (about 2 to 3 inches).

[tttaylorrr]

The picture is a bit older but the setup is still the same (the hides are still the old ones).
On the left is the warm side of the terrarium and the cold one is on the other side. You can see the probe but it's a bit further down at the moment (about 2 to 3 inches).

i hope some FELLOW FORUM MEMBERS CAN HELP (wink wink!) as i'm getting ready to leave work and travel home. i'll try and get back to you tonight but i hope some of the other lovely forum members can help you while i'm away.

you have a BEAUTIFUL enclosure!!!

[Caali]

Short update:

He seemed really hungry to me so I decided to offer him a rat and he ate it. Now he's sleeping again

[dadofsix]

Have you tried switching the cold hide to the warm side and the warm hide to the cool side for a few days? Sometimes, with these critters, you have to be like Sherlock Holmes and, one by one, eliminate all the possibilities until what you are left with must be the solution. Good luck.

Ciao

[Caali]

you're very welcome.
where is the thermostat probe located exactly? can we see a picture of your setup? a picture might give us a better idea along with your descriptions.


i say just swap the hides out for the new identical ones, then give him a couple days undisturbed and see what happens afterwards.


CHE = ceramic heat emitter. it is a ceramic bulb that produces heat but does not produce light. CHEs tend not to dry out the enclosure as much as IR bulbs do, but if yours is working for you that's just fine.

i feel there's quite a few factors happening at once, so we can't really isolate an issue. maybe photos of your enclosure can help. TBH i think it's weird that, when he does go over to the warm side, he sits RIGHT under the lamp. this behavior makes me think his hide is just not warm enough, so he needs to sit on top and exposed to regulate; once he's warm, he immediately gets to safety.

Thanks a lot. You really helped me!
I replaced the hide on the cold side. Since he decided to sleep on warm hide after I fed him, I decided to pump up the heat (you said he might not go into his hide because it's too cold). Now it's at exactly 90 degrees (that's what my thermometer says; the hide should be a bit warmer) and after he spent like seven hours sleeping on the warm spot, he finally went into the warm hide.
I'll make sure to keep it like this, so he won't have to sleep on his hide again
Thanks again!

- - - Updated - - -

Have you tried switching the cold hide to the warm side and the warm hide to the cool side for a few days? Sometimes, with these critters, you have to be like Sherlock Holmes and, one by one, eliminate all the possibilities until what you are left with must be the solution. Good luck.

Ciao

I'll keep that in mind and thanks for the tip. I really appreciate it

[Zincubus]

Are you still using that Zoo Med gadget for taking the temp - as you said it was rather inaccurate .. get one of these for 3 dollars each off eBay



Also one of these fabulous digital temp guns also off eBay and around 11 dollars !


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