New PVC Enclosure - heat question

[YizziBoBizzi]

We are moving our 3 yo Banana Fire BP to a new enclosure. He came to us in a glass, screened top enclosure. It is heated with a UTH under his warm hide and a CHE for ambient temps. We live in Colorado. Very low humidity. While he seems happy he is getting cramped.

We upgraded to a Kages PVC 4x2x2. After reading hours and hours in the forums here, we decided to call Bob at Pro Heat and get an RHP from him. It is attached to a Reptitemp digital thermostat on the right side of the enclosure. We also are giving UVB a shot with an Arcadia Forest D3 6% UVB T5 bulb from BioDude centered in the enclosure.

We used Great Stuff expanding foam and cork bark to decorate the sides and back. We gave him one ledge. We have watched him climb on a branch in his current enclosure - we are hopeful he likes his new space.

Now the questions. I understand the RHP will heat the ledge first and most. It is currently measuring 87°. We have the thermostat on the ledge to make sure it isn't getting too hot. The warm hide (on the floor) isn't getting enough heat (it's around 79) - especially inside (around 74 - he's used to 90). I think I have two options. 1. Raise his warm hide closer to the ledge and give him an easy way to get to it. Or 2. Add another UTH. Kages shaved down an area under the enclosure on the hot side in the event we wished to do this. However, I was trying to get away from a UTH. The new enclosure is sitting on an IKEA tall table in our daughters room. I wasn't sure how the UTH would do between PVC and IKEA "wood".




I'm sorry, I can't figure out how to post the actual image:
New Enclosure
Ledge/Hide
Sunny

[Bogertophis]

Hi- this might help: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-Post-Pictures

[jmcrook]

UTH/Heat Tape between the enclosure and the table will be fine provided it's on a thermostat.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...cement-for-UTH

[Homebody]

How large is your RHP (watts)? How long have you had it running in the fully set up enclosure? While 2 feet is a lot of distance to cover for an RHP, I would be a little surprised if Bob sold you one that wasn't up to it. Also, people who aren't used to RHPs sometimes pass judgement on them too quickly. They take a while to warm everything up.

[jmcrook]

RHP is simply not going to get the floor level of a 2’ tall enclosure to 90°, especially under a hide, without cooking the rest of the enclosure. I’ve got 5 set up the same in a room heated to 77-80° and the warm side floor hides get to about 82-83° inside the hide. Shelves and perches are set to reach 87-90° and the critters go there is they want more warmth

[YizziBoBizzi]

Thanks! I used a public dropbox link. I guess that isn't approved I'll fix the images.

[YizziBoBizzi]

Thanks for the reply, Bob recommended a PH-12C, 300 BTU.h, 90 watt, 12"x22"x1". He knew my exact specs. I purchased his recommendation. It can indeed heat the enclosure. It's been running for 48 hours.

And, yes, there are very strong opinions here. It's taken me forever to post because I'm not much of a drama person. Sunny, the bp, is happy where he is. But the last time he ate, the rat went into his cold hide, and he struck it from his warm hide. I decided it was time to upgrade. The problem i'm having is that the rhp will heat the full enclosure by the time the heat hits the ground. I did not go into this blind. I understood this would be a problem for us. I was looking for some possible solutions. Wondering if anyone had a solution I didn't mention.

[YizziBoBizzi]

RHP is simply not going to get the floor level of a 2’ tall enclosure to 90°, especially under a hide, without cooking the rest of the enclosure. I’ve got 5 set up the same in a room heated to 77-80° and the warm side floor hides get to about 82-83° inside the hide. Shelves and perches are set to reach 87-90° and the critters go there is they want more warmth

Yup, that's where we're at. Right now we have a UTH on glass. Are you in PVC? I guess that's my next search - understanding the PVC and UTH temps. I'm still concerned about the cheap table top under it...

[jmcrook]

Yes, all pvc enclosures and racks here. I only use heat tape/uth in my racks. All the larger enclosures are heated with RHP. Bob definitely knows his stuff and that's the size RHP I'd have guessed he recommended.
The only enclosures of mine heated with RHP and with a floor hot spot of ~87 are 12" tall. Everything else is 18-24" tall and none of the RHPs ranging from 80-190 watts will get the floor to 90 degrees without turning the enclosure into an oven.
If you adamantly need the floor hide on warm side to be 90 degrees you'll need a UTH/Heat Tape under the enclosure with thermostat probe between the heat and the enclosure (re: link I posted).
Here's a link to some enclosures I built up a while back. All of them heated with RHP on herpstat thermostats. The shelf and perches under the heat panel are the only places in the enclosure that reach 87-90 basking temps. Everywhere else is cooler. https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...nd-Accessories
Most of my animals are semi arboreal and are very proactive about choosing their preferred temp in the enclosures. There's certainly nothing wrong with giving a ball python a 24" tall enclosure, but it requires some additional work and hardware if you're dead set on having a floor temp of 90 degrees in the hide.

[YizziBoBizzi]

Yes, all pvc enclosures and racks here. I only use heat tape/uth in my racks. All the larger enclosures are heated with RHP. Bob definitely knows his stuff and that's the size RHP I'd have guessed he recommended.
The only enclosures of mine heated with RHP and with a floor hot spot of ~87 are 12" tall. Everything else is 18-24" tall and none of the RHPs ranging from 80-190 watts will get the floor to 90 degrees without turning the enclosure into an oven.
If you adamantly need the floor hide on warm side to be 90 degrees you'll need a UTH/Heat Tape under the enclosure with thermostat probe between the heat and the enclosure (re: link I posted).
Here's a link to some enclosures I built up a while back. All of them heated with RHP on herpstat thermostats. The shelf and perches under the heat panel are the only places in the enclosure that reach 87-90 basking temps. Everywhere else is cooler. https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...nd-Accessories
Most of my animals are semi arboreal and are very proactive about choosing their preferred temp in the enclosures. There's certainly nothing wrong with giving a ball python a 24" tall enclosure, but it requires some additional work and hardware if you're dead set on having a floor temp of 90 degrees in the hide.

Thanks for the info. I'm not dead set against a uth. I was just hoping I didn't need it. I find if I boost the temp any more it does heat the whole enclosure. 88-89 is about as hot as I can get the ledge without heating up the whole thing. The PVC is already doing a much better job with heat and humidity - so that is a plus. Maybe we give him a shot in the new place. We've watched him explore and climb in his current space (about 12" tall). It would be awesome if he went to the heat (without needing his warm hide at 90). I suppose if he doesn't we will get another uth.



- - - Updated - - -

Yes, all pvc enclosures and racks here. I only use heat tape/uth in my racks. All the larger enclosures are heated with RHP. Bob definitely knows his stuff and that's the size RHP I'd have guessed he recommended.
The only enclosures of mine heated with RHP and with a floor hot spot of ~87 are 12" tall. Everything else is 18-24" tall and none of the RHPs ranging from 80-190 watts will get the floor to 90 degrees without turning the enclosure into an oven.
If you adamantly need the floor hide on warm side to be 90 degrees you'll need a UTH/Heat Tape under the enclosure with thermostat probe between the heat and the enclosure (re: link I posted).
Here's a link to some enclosures I built up a while back. All of them heated with RHP on herpstat thermostats. The shelf and perches under the heat panel are the only places in the enclosure that reach 87-90 basking temps. Everywhere else is cooler. https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...nd-Accessories
Most of my animals are semi arboreal and are very proactive about choosing their preferred temp in the enclosures. There's certainly nothing wrong with giving a ball python a 24" tall enclosure, but it requires some additional work and hardware if you're dead set on having a floor temp of 90 degrees in the hide.

Thanks for the info. I'm not dead set against a uth. I was just hoping I didn't need it. I find if I boost the temp any more it does heat the whole enclosure. 88-89 is about as hot as I can get the ledge without heating up the whole thing. The PVC is already doing a much better job with heat and humidity - so that is a plus. Maybe we give him a shot in the new place. We've watched him explore and climb in his current space (about 12" tall). It would be awesome if he went to the heat (without needing his warm hide at 90). I suppose if he doesn't we will get another uth.