Spinnerblast X Pewter

I have a few female pewters that I am planning to breed when they reach breedable size, I'm looking into purchasing a new male this coming season and I like the look and genetics of a spinnerblast (Pastel, Spider, Pinstripe) or bumblebee pinstripe. Does anybody know what this pairing would produce? Many thanks ;)

3.125% WT
3.125% Het. Cinnamon,
3.125% Het. Pinstripe,
3.125% Het. Pinstripe, Het. Cinnamon,
6.25% Het. Pastel,
6.25% Het. Pastel, Het. Cinnamon,
6.25% Het. Pastel, Het. Pinstriped,
6.25% Het. Pastel, Het. Pinstripe, Het. Cinnamon,
3.125% Homozygous Pastel,
3.125% Homozygous Pastel, Het. Cinnamon,
3.125% Homozygous Pastel, Het. Pinstripe,
3.125% Homozygous Pastel, Het. Pinstripe, Het. Cinnamon,
3.125% Het. Spider,
3.125% Het. Spider, Het. Cinnamon,
3.125% Het. Spider, Het. Pinstripe,
3.125% Het. Spider, Het. Pinstripe, Het. Cinnamon,
6.25% Het. Spider, Het. Pastel,
6.25% Het. Spider, Het. Pastel, Het. Cinnamon,
6.25% Het. Spider, Het. Pastel, Het. Pinstripe,
6.25% Het. Spider, Het. Pastel, Het. Pinstripe, Het. Cinnamon,
3.125% Het. Spider, Homozygous Pastel,
3.125% Het. Spider, Homozygous Pastel, Het. Cinnamon,
3.125% Het. Spider, Homozygous Pastel, Het. Pinstripe,
3.125% Het. Spider, Homozygous Pastel, Het. Pinstripe, Het. Cinnamon

i dont even want to attempt to write out the outcomes. The previouss post isnt right, you cant have a het spider or het pinstripe

Quote:

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Originally Posted by matt71915

i dont even want to attempt to write out the outcomes. The previouss post isnt right, you cant have a het spider or het pinstripe

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I think what they were meaning is the "Heterozygous form of Spider", "Heterozygous form of Pastel", (Pastel is a visual Het for Super Pastel), "Homozygous form of Pastel" (Super Pastel), etc.

I'll try to write out the outcomes. Give me a second.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by matt71915

i dont even want to attempt to write out the outcomes. The previouss post isnt right, you cant have a het spider or het pinstripe

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Yes, a het spider is a non super form of a spider and a het pinstripe is a non super form of a pinstripe.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JayCee

3.125% WT
3.125% Het. Cinnamon,
3.125% Het. Pinstripe,
3.125% Het. Pinstripe, Het. Cinnamon,
6.25% Het. Pastel,
6.25% Het. Pastel, Het. Cinnamon,
6.25% Het. Pastel, Het. Pinstriped,
6.25% Het. Pastel, Het. Pinstripe, Het. Cinnamon,
3.125% Homozygous Pastel,
3.125% Homozygous Pastel, Het. Cinnamon,
3.125% Homozygous Pastel, Het. Pinstripe,
3.125% Homozygous Pastel, Het. Pinstripe, Het. Cinnamon,
3.125% Het. Spider,
3.125% Het. Spider, Het. Cinnamon,
3.125% Het. Spider, Het. Pinstripe,
3.125% Het. Spider, Het. Pinstripe, Het. Cinnamon,
6.25% Het. Spider, Het. Pastel,
6.25% Het. Spider, Het. Pastel, Het. Cinnamon,
6.25% Het. Spider, Het. Pastel, Het. Pinstripe,
6.25% Het. Spider, Het. Pastel, Het. Pinstripe, Het. Cinnamon,
3.125% Het. Spider, Homozygous Pastel,
3.125% Het. Spider, Homozygous Pastel, Het. Cinnamon,
3.125% Het. Spider, Homozygous Pastel, Het. Pinstripe,
3.125% Het. Spider, Homozygous Pastel, Het. Pinstripe, Het. Cinnamon

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No such thing as het pastels, het spiders, or het cinnies.
Pewter X Spinner Blast =
Spiders
Spinners
Pastels
Super Pastels
Pinstripes
Lemon Blasts
Killer Blasts
Cinnies
Pewters
Sterlings
Spider pewters
Spider Cinnies
Cinnapins
Pewter Pins
Pewter Spins
Sterling Spins
Bumble Bee
Spinner Blasts
Killerbee pins
Normals
..I don't think I missed any, I have no idea of the odds, but those are the possibilities that pairing will have.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jyson

No such thing as het pastels, het spiders, or het cinnies.

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Actually there are. The problem is that most ball python breeders do not call them that. A het pastel, heterozygous pastel, is het for a homozygous pastel, which is what most ball python breeders call a super pastel. Super is just a name that ball python breeders coined for the homozygous form of co dominant mutations.

Spinnerblast (Pastel Spider Pinstripe) x Pewter (Pastel Cinnamon):
Each egg will have the following chance of being the following morph/combination of morphs

1/32 (3.125%) Normal
1/32 (3.125%) Pinstripe
1/32 (3.125%) Spider
1/32 (3.125%) Cinnamon
1/16 (6.25%) Pastel

1/32 (3.125%) Spinner (Spider Pinstripe)
1/32 (3.125%) Cinnabee (Cinnamon Spider)
1/32 (3.125%) Cinnamon Pinstripe
1/16 (6.25%) Bumblebee (Pastel Spider)
1/16 (6.25%) Lemon Blast (Pastel Pinstripe)
1/16 (6.25%) Pewter (Pastel Cinnamon)
1/32 (3.125%) Super Pastel

1/32 (3.125%) Cinnamon Spinner (Cinnamon Spider Pinstripe)
1/16 (6.25%) Pewter Bee (Pastel Cinnamon Spider)
1/16 (6.25%) Spinner Blast (Pastel Spider Pinstripe)
1/16 (6.25%) Cinnamon Blast (Pastel Pinstripe Cinnamon)
1/32 (3.125%) Sterling (Super Pastel Cinnamon)
1/32 (3.125%) Killerbee (Super Pastel Spider)
1/32 (3.125%) Super Blast (Super Pastel Pinstripe)

1/32 (3.125%) Sterling Bee (Super Pastel Cinnamon Spider)
1/32 (3.125%) Sterling Blast (Super Pastel Cinnamon Pinstripe)
1/32 (3.125%) Super Spinner Blast (Super Pastel Spider Pinstripe)
1/16 (6.25%) Pewter Spinner (Pastel Cinnamon Spider Pinstripe)

1/32 (3.125%) Sterling Spinner (Super Pastel Cinnamon Spider Pinstripe)


There you go. It's sectioned off based on how many genes it has (1-5).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wh00h0069

Actually there are. The problem is that most ball python breeders do not call them that. A het pastel, heterozygous pastel, is het for a homozygous pastel, which is what most ball python breeders call a super pastel. Super is just a name that ball python breeders coined for the homozygous form of co dominant mutations.

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Yes, but what I meant was that there is no such thing as a het FOR pastel.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wh00h0069

Actually there are. The problem is that most ball python breeders do not call them that. A het pastel, heterozygous pastel, is het for a homozygous pastel, which is what most ball python breeders call a super pastel. Super is just a name that ball python breeders coined for the homozygous form of co dominant mutations.

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I understand what you are saying. I didn't catch it in my earlier post, but the correct term would be "Het Super Pastel" because a Pastel is the Heterozygous form of the gene (Super Pastel). Take Ivory for instance. Some people lable Yellowbellies as "Yellowbelly-Het Ivory".

You can all use www.worldofballpythons.com/wizard/ to calc these combinations.

Its not as cool in results as some programs, but it works :)

Cheers everyone ;), much appreciated!

WOW!! Thats quite a small list really :rofl:

1/32 (3.125%) Normal
1/32 (3.125%) Pinstripe
1/32 (3.125%) Spider
1/32 (3.125%) Cinnamon
1/16 (6.25%) Pastel

1/32 (3.125%) Spinner (Spider Pinstripe)
1/32 (3.125%) Cinnabee (Cinnamon Spider)
1/32 (3.125%) Cinnamon Pinstripe
1/16 (6.25%) Bumblebee (Pastel Spider)
1/16 (6.25%) Lemon Blast (Pastel Pinstripe)
1/16 (6.25%) Pewter (Pastel Cinnamon)
1/32 (3.125%) Super Pastel

1/32 (3.125%) Cinnamon Spinner (Cinnamon Spider Pinstripe)
1/16 (6.25%) Pewter Bee (Pastel Cinnamon Spider)
1/16 (6.25%) Spinner Blast (Pastel Spider Pinstripe)
1/16 (6.25%) Cinnamon Blast (Pastel Pinstripe Cinnamon)
1/32 (3.125%) Sterling (Super Pastel Cinnamon)
1/32 (3.125%) Killerbee (Super Pastel Spider)
1/32 (3.125%) Super Blast (Super Pastel Pinstripe)

1/32 (3.125%) Sterling Bee (Super Pastel Cinnamon Spider)
1/32 (3.125%) Sterling Blast (Super Pastel Cinnamon Pinstripe)
1/32 (3.125%) Super Spinner Blast (Super Pastel Spider Pinstripe)
1/16 (6.25%) Pewter Spinner (Pastel Cinnamon Spider Pinstripe)

1/32 (3.125%) Sterling Spinner (Super Pastel Cinnamon Spider Pinstripe)


There you go. It's sectioned off based on how many genes it has (1-5).

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Plenty of combos to hit but would need alot of luck to produce the 5 gene snake!! If all goes well I'll have 3+ pewter females ready to go which should give me a chance of a clutch or two!

What does everyone think a sterling spinner would turn out like? I think the pewter spinner would be cool, also the sterling blast sounds tasty!!

That site is awesome that calculates for you. Helps me to kinda moreless understand all the traits.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wh00h0069

Actually there are. The problem is that most ball python breeders do not call them that. A het pastel, heterozygous pastel, is het for a homozygous pastel, which is what most ball python breeders call a super pastel. Super is just a name that ball python breeders coined for the homozygous form of co dominant mutations.

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What if I told you that using the term "codominant" isn't really correct and we should all be referring to animals that have a "super" form as 'incomplete dominant'?

Incomplete dominance is when two genes combine and present themselves equally (pastel + black pastel makes black pewter for instance). If the genes were codominant the animal would be partially pastel and partially black pastel (think about the way a black and white cow looks, that's codominance).

A pastel (in the common use of the term) doesn't look the way it does because it's a pastel. It looks the way it does because you are seeing a blending together of the 'normal' gene and the pastel gene. That's why it's darker and less impressive than the super (homozygous) form. A "super pastel" as you all know is the double expression of the pastel gene. This is also one of the reasons why an animal like a bumble bee is so yellow compared to a normal pastel. The yellow of the pastel gene is combining (competing) with less color from the normal spider coloration (the golden colors of the spider gene in between the dark spidering). Moreso, look how green a pinstripe is compared to a spider. That's why a lemon blast isn't as impressive as a bumble bee. Yellow + gold = rockin' yellows. Yellow + green = not so much.

It's a little late in the race to try and change the language used in the biz so I roll with it. Ball python breeders know what each other are saying when we use terms like dominant, co-dominant, super and simple recessive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ColinWeaver

What if I told you that using the term "codominant" isn't really correct and we should all be referring to animals that have a "super" form as 'incomplete dominant'?

Incomplete dominance is when two genes combine and present themselves equally (pastel + black pastel makes black pewter for instance). If the genes were codominant the animal would be partially pastel and partially black pastel (think about the way a black and white cow looks, that's codominance).

A pastel (in the common use of the term) doesn't look the way it does because it's a pastel. It looks the way it does because you are seeing a blending together of the 'normal' gene and the pastel gene. That's why it's darker and less impressive than the super (homozygous) form. A "super pastel" as you all know is the double expression of the pastel gene. This is also one of the reasons why an animal like a bumble bee is so yellow compared to a normal pastel. The yellow of the pastel gene is combining (competing) with less color from the normal spider coloration (the golden colors of the spider gene in between the dark spidering). Moreso, look how green a pinstripe is compared to a spider. That's why a lemon blast isn't as impressive as a bumble bee. Yellow + gold = rockin' yellows. Yellow + green = not so much.

It's a little late in the race to try and change the language used in the biz so I roll with it. Ball python breeders know what each other are saying when we use terms like dominant, co-dominant, super and simple recessive.

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Thanks for that Colin. I actually thought that there wasn't anyone out there anymore that knew what Incomplete dominance was. Like you, I know what they mean, but snicker when people haven't taken the time to at least read the definition of genetic terminology to understand what they are talking about.

Excellent post.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by muddoc

Thanks for that Colin. I actually thought that there wasn't anyone out there anymore that knew what Incomplete dominance was. Like you, I know what they mean, but snicker when people haven't taken the time to at least read the definition of genetic terminology to understand what they are talking about.

Excellent post.

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I always thought incomplete dominance was what guys tried to do at home with their wives/girlfriends. Just speaking for myself, it's been a total failure! :O:D

I'm miserable at genetics so I tend to not even chime in on these threads. Percentages are all greek to me!

Cheers for that Colin, excellant post!

Im sure the others before me have figured it out correctly but I like to cheat :D
put the combo into my morph calculator, these are the results

percentage

Male = Lemon Blast, Spider
Female = Cinnamon Pewter

Offspring predicted as:

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3.13% Normal
6.25% Pastel
3.13% Pinstripe
6.25% Lemon Blast
3.13% Spider
6.25% Bumblebee
3.13% Spinner
6.25% Lemon Blast, Spider
3.13% Cinnamon
6.25% Cinnamon Pewter
3.13% Cinnamon, Pinstripe
6.25% Cinnamon Pewter, Pinstripe
3.13% Cinnamon, Spider
6.25% Cinnamon Pewter, Spider
3.13% Cinnamon, Pinstripe, Spider
6.25% Cinnamon Pewter, Spinner
3.13% Super Pastel
3.13% Super Blast
3.13% Killerbee
3.13% Spinner Blast
3.13% Sterling Pastel
3.13% Sterling Pastel, Pinstripe
3.13% Sterling Pastel, Spider
3.13% Sterling Pastel, Spinner

ratio

1/32 Normal
2/32 Pastel
1/32 Pinstripe
2/32 Lemon Blast
1/32 Spider
2/32 Bumblebee
1/32 Spinner
2/32 Lemon Blast, Spider
1/32 Cinnamon
2/32 Cinnamon Pewter
1/32 Cinnamon, Pinstripe
2/32 Cinnamon Pewter, Pinstripe
1/32 Cinnamon, Spider
2/32 Cinnamon Pewter, Spider
1/32 Cinnamon, Pinstripe, Spider
2/32 Cinnamon Pewter, Spinner
1/32 Super Pastel
1/32 Super Blast
1/32 Killerbee
1/32 Spinner Blast
1/32 Sterling Pastel
1/32 Sterling Pastel, Pinstripe
1/32 Sterling Pastel, Spider
1/32 Sterling Pastel, Spinner

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ColinWeaver

What if I told you that using the term "codominant" isn't really correct and we should all be referring to animals that have a "super" form as 'incomplete dominant'?

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Then I would agree with you 100%.

I was just trying to help and put morphs into the calculator I usually use:

http://www.geneticswizard.com/