UPDATE: HR2811 Amendment

House Judiciary Committee Staff and bill Sponsors agrees with USARK position to limit the scope of HR2811 with a proposal for an amendment. All but two pythons will be completely exempted from the bill. The exception will be the IMPORT of the Burmese Python and the African Rock Python. Further, Committee staff has committed to work with USARK over the August legislative break to craft language to allow the commercial trade in captive bred Burmese Pythons and African Rock Pythons to continue. This is a huge victory for USARK and the Reptile Nation!

For the last two days, while the Reptile nation was making their calls, USARK was involved in intense discussions with the Sponsors of HR2811 and House Judiciary Committee Staff, not to destroy the Reptile Industry with their bill. Yesterday morning we suggested to Congressman Kendrick Meek and Congressman Tom Rooney that the bill be amended to address ONLY the IMPORT of the Burmese Python and exempt all the other pythons from this legislation. The Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) caught wind of what we were doing and began to apply pressure to leave the bill "as is", banning all pythons.

Today we coordinated a conference call to discuss the possibility of amending HR2811 instead of banning all pythons. Present were Rep Meek's staff, Rep Rooney's staff, both minority & majority Committee staff, bill proponent HSUS and USARK. HSUS made a very emotionally charged argument to ban all pythons. Their argument was strong on rhetoric and weak on facts and science. HSUS suggested that any bill going forward must include the Burmese Python, African Rock Python and Reticulated Python. They stated that the Reticulated Python was an Invasive Species that could surpass the Burmese Python. Andrew Wyatt of USARK challenged that statement indicating that HSUS could not produce credible scientific evidence to support their position, and that in more than 30 years of captivity in the US Reticulated Pythons have never been shown to be invasive; or even likely to be invasive. Wyatt also voiced concerns that this bill goes far beyond just stopping the import of these animals, but would also stop interstate transport. HSUS challenged that assertion, but Todd Willens of Vitello Consulting (USARK DC Consultant) confirmed Wyatt's concerns reading directly from the Lacy Act. Wyatt indicated that there was probably more than 100,000 Burmese Pythons already in captivity and HR2811 made no provision for what would happen to all these very valuable animals that would become worthless overnight. Frank Vitello of Vitello Consulting pointed out that there was already a science based process of evaluation to determine what animals should be placed on the Injurious Wildlife list of the Lacy Act. He pointed out that what HSUS was suggesting was to avoid a scientific evaluation in favor of legislating science.

Following the meeting USARK was contacted and told of an agreement by committee staff to create an amendment that would limit the bill to the IMPORT of the Burmese and African Rock Pythons. Committee staff committed to work through the August break to work on how to create an exemption for the captive trade in the Burmese and African Rock Pythons. During the July 29th markup of the Full Committee we are told that Congressman Rooney will introduce the following amendment to HR2811:

AMENDMENT TO H.R. 2811
OFFERED BY MR. ROONEY OF FLORIDA
Beginning in line 6, strike ‘‘; of the constrictor
snake of the species Python genera’’ and insert ‘‘; of the
Burmese Python of the species Python molurus
bivittatus; of the African Rock Python of the species
Python sebae’’.

If we are successful in saving the Python industry there will still be a few "armchair quarterbacks" that will criticize our efforts. There is no guarantee that the amendment will be passed, but USARK has done everything possible, and will continue to pursue every avenue to protect the Reptile Industry. This bill is politically driven and is going to move forward with or without amendment. We are encouraged that the amendment was crafted by both majority and minority staff, thus it should send a positive signal to both Democrat and Republican Committee Members. We are hopeful the amendment passes. In either case we will continue to work with the bill sponsors and committee staff to further amend the bill before it reaches the House floor for a vote. We are appreciative that Congressmen Meek and Rooney, and the majority and minority committee staff favored our recommended changes and have committed to continue working with USARK as the bill moves through the legislative process.

USARK is also pleased to report that it has secured a meeting with the office of Senator Bill Nelson during August recess to discuss modifications to the Senate counterpart to HR2811, S373.



Click here to watch Webcast of House Judiciary Committee Markup

http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/calendar.html

Click here to donate $10 with dollar for dollar matching from Zoo Med

http://usark.org/donate.php

Maybe we should be letting the HSUS know how we feel as well.

http://www.hsus.org/contact_us/government_affairs.html

"USARK is also pleased to report that it has secured a meeting with the office of Senator Bill Nelson during August recess to discuss modifications to the Senate counterpart to HR2811, S373."

w00t! Hell yeah!

Thats amazing, however I will not fill myself with blind hope.

It really does seem like we can prevail over this bill.

I know that burm people(and african rock too) will yell that they were sold out. I hope that this bill will INCREASE the value of CB burmese. BUrmese normal and albino babies should increase in value without the imported ones coming in cheap.

Yes, trying to look for a silver lining.

USARK has done pretty well considering they wanted to ban all exotics of every species, not even just reptiles. The excuse they were using was burmese in the everglades, and now we have a hunt program, and possibly a ban on importation of burmese and african rocks. With more effort on USARK's part, perhaps they can get it even more lessened.

A big thank you to everyone making calls and faxes and emails! We need to keep up pressure to make OUR representatives listen to our voices.

Do we still need to be calling this morning?

I ask because of this new update. I know stuff is happening with all of this and USARK is keeping us updated as they go.

I just wasn't sure with this new information if we still need to be calling this morning.

I still made my calls requesting that expert testimony be heard before they vote on it. Most of the people answering were nice. Only got hung up on by one when I told him where I was calling from.

Now included in the emil from USARK is a link to a "Committee on the Judiciary" webpage.

Are we able to watch the hearing like with HR669?

Im having a hard time getting it to load, could be this new iMac though....

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Originally Posted by 2kdime

Now included in the emil from USARK is a link to a "Committee on the Judiciary" webpage.

Are we able to watch the hearing like with HR669?

Im having a hard time getting it to load, could be this new iMac though....

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I cannot get it to load on my mac either anyone else in and watching?

If they are able to add anything to the Injurious Wildlife list regardless of any possible future exemptions for sale or interstate commerce, this is a huge loss / failure. They would be added without due scientific study, opening the doors wide open for easy access to anything in the future. Addition to the injurious list without due scientific research is akin to incarceration without due process or conviction.

Step by step we are walking ourselves down our own path to destruction by allowing them to change the rules to the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by neilgolli

If they are able to add anything to the Injurious Wildlife list regardless of any possible future exemptions for sale or interstate commerce, this is a huge loss / failure. They would be added without due scientific study, opening the doors wide open for easy access to anything in the future. Addition to the injurious list without due scientific research is akin to incarceration without due process or conviction.

Step by step we are walking ourselves down our own path to destruction by allowing them to change the rules to the game.

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Unfortunately, a lot of them were probably under the impression that research had been done already with all the lies the environmentalists and animal rights activists have perpetrated about the subject, even though all of them have been determined false... Still, this thing moved way too quickly, and that alone scares the hell out of me. No law on anything should move that fast...

I can not get it to load either :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by neilgolli

If they are able to add anything to the Injurious Wildlife list regardless of any possible future exemptions for sale or interstate commerce, this is a huge loss / failure. They would be added without due scientific study, opening the doors wide open for easy access to anything in the future. Addition to the injurious list without due scientific research is akin to incarceration without due process or conviction.

Step by step we are walking ourselves down our own path to destruction by allowing them to change the rules to the game.

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I don't know Neil... I would have to say that I respectfully disagree with you on this one. How can you say that there was not due scientific research? Is it not a fact that burmese pythons have established themselves in South Florida and are multiplying? Is there not currently a hunt taking place right now to try to fix this problem? This is legitimately a BIG problem.

Sure they throw all kinds of other crap in with it like the snakes are man eaters and such..... but the bill is based almost completely on the fact that they are now a thriving species in South Florida... with no natural predator. And I would think it is safe to say that the scientific research done to date has proven this to be true.

In every war there will be battles that are lost. Thankfully our General (USARK) knows this, and has picked the right battle to loose (that was unwindable anyway) to insure overall victory of the war.

Mike

Quote:

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Originally Posted by neilgolli

I cannot get it to load on my mac either anyone else in and watching?

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You have to use RealNetworks Video Player. I don't care for that player, and chose to not load that sofware.

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

I don't know Neil... I would have to say that I respectfully disagree with you on this one. How can you say that there was not due scientific research? Is it not a fact that burmese pythons have established themselves in South Florida and are multiplying? Is there not currently a hunt taking place right now to try to fix this problem? This is legitimately a BIG problem.

Sure they throw all kinds of other crap in with it like the snakes are man eaters and such..... but the bill is based almost completely on the fact that they are now a thriving species in South Florida... with no natural predator. And I would think it is safe to say that the scientific research done to date has proven this to be true.

In every war there will be battles that are lost. Thankfully our General (USARK) knows this, and has picked the right battle to loose (that was unwindable anyway) to insure overall victory of the war.

Mike

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Without expert testimony, only going on the theory that the problem is of the size they estimate is not nor should it be assumed what futures studies would conclude.

please read adams blog from yesterday, http://nohr669.com/blog/

"This is the first time ever that the US Congress, without testimony form experts or any facts based in real science, has attempted to ban a species that has been in the pet trade for decades. Pet owners should be very concerned."

"The ranking member, Rep Gohmert, called for scientific testimony so that he could make an informed decision. He stated that no one on the subcommittee was a reptile expert."

Regarding the hunt. Im very in-tuned to what is going on and yesterday mike cole and graziani took several reporters and others on a hunt. Mike left his house at 4 am, did not return until 930 am the following morning. They had several air boats and walked a dozen or so miles along "the epicenter" of the problem and found nothing all day (not a snake, not a skin, not a nest). This is the 3rd hunt and thus far only 1 snake has been found.

Im a member of the NRA, not because I support everything they believe in, but because they will defend to the end our rights, without compromise.

Using your war example, you cannot compromise with the enemy. The good guy will live up to his end of the bargain and the bad guy will almost always renig. I lived in Florida when the reptiles of concern permits were being considered and everyone said if we have this system in place they wont go any further, we can point to this law and how it can and needs to be enforced. Here we are, less than 2 years later and they took that victory and are now pushing for more. You give a little and a little and a little until you have nothing left.

Please check out the following pdf for more info on Injurious wildlife. To think a provision ON BEHALF OF BURMS will be included to allow for keeping, breeding, selling and transporting across states lines will happen is awfully hopeful thinking.



http://www.fws.gov/Contaminants/ANS/...tSheet2007.pdf

Neil,

I understand what you are saying... I really do.

But please let me ask you something that I think is VERY relevant to your argument.

Is there a single expert out there that would testify that there are not breeding Burmese Pythons in South Florida? If there is, how could they testify to that when there has already been proof of this found? This is after all the single fact that all this stuff is based on.

USARK did not compromise with the enemy. They gave the man a pizza so he would release 18 of his 20 hostages. Now that 18 of the innocent victims are out of this mess, we can start to work on getting the other 2 out with as little harm does as possible.

We're not signing the death warrant for our industry because a ball python will never kill a toddler. Period. Polititians aren't going to actively go looking for stuff to ban without some sort of event to cause the search. Maybe some poorly kept retic will do the same thing and they will throw another fit and add them to the Lacey act, God forbid.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

Neil,

I understand what you are saying... I really do.

But please let me ask you something that I think is VERY relevant to your argument.

Is there a single expert out there that would testify that there are not breeding Burmese Pythons in South Florida? If there is, how could they testify to that when there has already been proof of this found? This is after all the single fact that all this stuff is based on.

USARK did not compromise with the enemy. They gave the man a pizza so he would release 18 of his 20 hostages. Now that 18 of the innocent victims are out of this mess, we can start to work on getting the other 2 out with as little harm does as possible.

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Mike, you are 100% correct regarding the burms in south florida HOWEVER once we start allowing them to bypass the steps necessary to make a fully educated risk assessment, we give up the right to ask for a full and fair fight when they come after anything else. I'm only arguing that they play by the rules they themselves established. We start handing out rubber stamps that then dictate how we live our life's and we are asking for a world of hurt. I don't argue that they may actually deserve to be on the list (not for 99% of the hype that is out there) I do argue that tossing out a sacrificial lamb is wrong.

I do not contend they only gave a guy a pizza. Call bob clark, call prehistoric pets, call anyone who breeds burms for a living, they will tell you, that they just gave up their right arm. They may get it back after back door maneuvering during the august recesses and get a pass to breed and sell across state lines but I don't think any of them are not going threw a good deal of pain right now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hulihzack

We're not signing the death warrant for our industry because a ball python will never kill a toddler. Period. Polititians aren't going to actively go looking for stuff to ban without some sort of event to cause the search. Maybe some poorly kept retic will do the same thing and they will throw another fit and add them to the Lacey act, God forbid.

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Politicians wont, but HSUS, peta and many many other groups will and they all have significant stock piles of cash and lobbyists. They will not stop and for us to allow congress to bypass their own system of checks and balances is wrong, and it will bite us in the butt.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by neilgolli

Mike, you are 100% correct regarding the burms in south florida HOWEVER once we start allowing them to bypass the steps necessary to make a fully educated risk assessment, we give up the right to ask for a full and fair fight when they come after anything else. I'm only arguing that they play by the rules they themselves established. We start handing out rubber stamps that then dictate how we live our life's and we are asking for a world of hurt. I don't argue that they may actually deserve to be on the list (not for 99% of the hype that is out there) I do argue that tossing out a sacrificial lamb is wrong.

I do not contend they only gave a guy a pizza. Call bob clark, call prehistoric pets, call anyone who breeds burms for a living, they will tell you, that they just gave up their right arm. They may get it back after back door maneuvering during the august recesses and get a pass to breed and sell across state lines but I don't think any of them are not going threw a good deal of pain right now.

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I could not agree more!

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Originally Posted by neilgolli

Mike, you are 100% correct regarding the burms in south florida HOWEVER once we start allowing them to bypass the steps necessary to make a fully educated risk assessment, we give up the right to ask for a full and fair fight when they come after anything else.

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How are we doing this? How are we allowing them to bypass the steps necessary to make a fully educated risk assessment? Once the bill is updated to specifically list only Burmese pythons and Rock pythons, why can't we at that time force expert testimony on the subject before the updated bill is passed?

"The ranking member, Rep Gohmert, called for scientific testimony so that he could make an informed decision. He stated that no one on the subcommittee was a reptile expert."

Why do you think this Rep will change his stance on this just because the bill has changed from a proposed ban on all pythons to a ban on 2 specific pythons?

We are on the same team here Neil... I guess I am just not explaining myself well enough.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

How are we doing this? How are we allowing them to bypass the steps necessary to make a fully educated risk assessment? Once the bill is updated to specifically list only Burmese pythons and Rock pythons, why can't we at that time force expert testimony on the subject before the updated bill is passed?

"The ranking member, Rep Gohmert, called for scientific testimony so that he could make an informed decision. He stated that no one on the subcommittee was a reptile expert."

Why do you think this Rep will change his stance on this just because the bill has changed from a proposed ban on all pythons to a ban on 2 specific pythons?

We are on the same team here Neil... I guess I am just not explaining myself well enough.

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Mike, I completely agree we are on the same side and even believe the same thing and in the inevitable conclusion. I simply fear we are giving to much credit to our representatives. The best example of that is actually reducing the bill to only include burms and rocks. There are many many more species of reptiles that fit the bill that (dare I say should be included on the list). By them expanding or narrowing the bill BEFORE looking at the scientific evidence they are already making mistakes.

Hey Mike I dont know is your read this study by Tracy Barker that someone posted recently.

http://vpi.com/sites/vpi.com/files/O...compressed.pdf

It says that the burmese is not an invasive species. That is just a tag that has been put on them by the folks who want to ban them.

Yes they are in the everglades as well as 100's of non native animals(and plants for that matter) whom are also in the Everglades but that does not make them invasive and yet the burm is the only one getting any attention

This term is being used without any scientific proof to advance an agenda. Just because it is there does not make it a threat. That is what they want you to believe but REAL scientific research says different.

from the barker's paper

"Presidential Order 13112, signed into law by President
Bill Clinton on February 3, 1999, and titled Invasive
Species, provides the following definition [Section 1 (f)]:
“invasive species means an alien species whose introduction
does or is likely to cause economic or environmental
harm, or harm to human health.”"

No scientific study I am aware of shows this is likely as well.

"Invasive" species can be overly vilified as well...see this thread as well...I discuss much of it there.....http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...threadid=96935

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hulihzack

We're not signing the death warrant for our industry because a ball python will never kill a toddler. Period. Polititians aren't going to actively go looking for stuff to ban without some sort of event to cause the search. Maybe some poorly kept retic will do the same thing and they will throw another fit and add them to the Lacey act, God forbid.

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They don't need a event to get them headed to ban things. The legislationw as in the works long long before the child was killed.

Remember that HR669 was against ALL exotics, and I dont' remember any canary related deaths, or feral populations of hamsters destroying wildlife.

The politicians and animal rights groups do NOT need legitimate events to try to ban our pets. All they need is the ability.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by West Coast Jungle

Hey Mike I dont know is your read this study by Tracy Barker that someone posted recently.

http://vpi.com/sites/vpi.com/files/O...compressed.pdf

It says that the burmese is not an invasive species. That is just a tag that has been put on them by the folks who want to ban them.

Yes they are in the everglades as well as 100's of non native animals(and plants for that matter) whom are also in the Everglades but that does not make them invasive and yet the burm is the only one getting any attention

This term is being used without any scientific proof to advance an agenda. Just because it is there does not make it a threat. That is what they want you to believe but REAL scientific research says different.

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Thanks for that link Raul - I really hope that gets into these guys hands, and that Dave and Tracey are called upon to give expert testimony.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

"The ranking member, Rep Gohmert, called for scientific testimony so that he could make an informed decision. He stated that no one on the subcommittee was a reptile expert."

Why do you think this Rep will change his stance on this just because the bill has changed from a proposed ban on all pythons to a ban on 2 specific pythons?

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The only problem with this is that the bill was on the table for voting today. I hope more than anything that the committee follows Rep. Gohmert's lead and get their scientific testimony before voting on this issue. I find that outcome unlikely though.

I am going to bow out of this conversation now because it is starting to go all over the place.

IMHO, updating the bill to only propose a ban on the animals in question and not ALL PYTHONS is clearly a victory for the world of reptile keepers.

This victory does NOT mean that we can't continue to fight the bill as we have to date. It does not mean that we are giving up our right to force expert testimony on the subject to the deciding parties. All it does is remove animals completely unrelated to the issues at hand from the chopping block.

Thanks for chatting with me Neil! I have purchased 5 snakes from you so far and look forward to buying MANY more in the future. they are some of my favorites!!!

P.S. Thanks for that link Raul, I had not seen that. Great write up!!!!

I see both sides of the argument. It is sad to say, but I believe that it is inevitable that the largest of the constrictors will eventually be banned. I do think, however, that before banning the government should have scientific research, so that they can made educated votes on the matter. I do see them taking all other pythons except for the largest two off of the list as a victory. I feel sorry for all of the keepers that keep these constrictors. I know that if it were snakes that I keep, I would be devastated.

BTW, if it is only a ban of importation, then I am all for it, but am against it if it is a ban on breeding or transportation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

They don't need a event to get them headed to ban things. The legislationw as in the works long long before the child was killed.

Remember that HR669 was against ALL exotics, and I dont' remember any canary related deaths, or feral populations of hamsters destroying wildlife.

The politicians and animal rights groups do NOT need legitimate events to try to ban our pets. All they need is the ability.

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Again you have to understand how this works. Things get shot down daily in these commitees, and they know it. I will almost gauranty you that they only wanted big snakes banned. To make it look like they are comprimising on the subject, they add all other species also and amend the proposal to work in thier favor. It's just like someone who gets busted in a criminal case....They get charged with all kinds of extra charges in order to get the person to take a plea bargain on what charge they origianlly wanted him to have.

It's not true that Burmese do not have any natural predators in the Everglades. They have MANY predators, from raccoons and opossums to herons and raptors when they are small, all the way up to adult alligators once they are fully grown. No doubt a black bear would figure out a way to take advantage of this new prey source as well.

Yes, Burms eat a lot of animals--rodents and baby alligators, young birds, etc--but they're also eaten by a lot of animals, particularly when small. This isn't a case where a species is introduced to a place where it has no natural predators. MANY animals in the Everglades eat snakes, and the burm is not so significantly different that it's not on the menu. We KNOW alligators are eating them. It's much too early to declare that Burmese are going to cause harm to the everglades ecosystem.

Back in 2007 I wrote on a thread on here......

"There's a pretty extensive ban on the importation of three species of African tortoises. These species were found to carry ticks that harbor Heartwater disease after their importation. Heartwater disease effects ruminants, anything from livestock cattle to white-tail deer.

It has been recommended that both captive-hatched and wild-caught specimens be certified free of external parasites such as ticks. Some go as far as suggesting that the US spray all exotics with a safe pesticide. They argue that's it better to be proactive rather than reactive as in the case of Heartwater disease."

Then there's this paper from 2000......http://www.jstor.org/pss/3284951

"Exotic ticks were identified on 29 (91%) of 32 reptile premises in 18 counties of Florida. The ticks, found on a variety of imported tortoises, snakes, and monitor lizards, belonged to 4 Amblyomma species (A. marmoreum, Amblyomma nuttalli, Amblyomma sabanerae,and Amblyomma sparsum) and 4 Aponomma species (Aponomma exornatum, Aponomma flavomaculatum, Aponomma latum, and Aponomma varanensis). The most commonly encountered ticks were A. latum and A. marmoreum. The identifications of A.marmoreum on 8 premises in 7 counties, and of A. sparsum on 1 premises, are of great concern because both species are vectors of heartwater, a lethal disease of cattle, sheep, goats, and deer."

Some of the snakes they found these ticks on were ball pythons, African Rock pythons, and reticulated pythons.

My question to anyone who knows better than me:

Have the importers changed their practices since this time to decrease the chances that exotic, disease carrying ticks could be on imported snakes?

A would think a legislator or two could ask this at some point.

some ppl fail to see that just because the wording is changed now that it will not be added or actually removed from the bill. even then this bill does bypass due process and surely every year they will attempt to go back and amend this piece of rubbish to include more animals just like they have tried in the past or to outright ban them.

my arguement is it took FL how many years to open a hunt while all these years they claimed burms were protected. last time i checked how can a protected species be also an invasive species.
oh yes and the introduced bills to ban these animals before they even had a permit system or even looked into state regulation.

Just read on ecrb's tweet page that the amendment passed with no discussion

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Originally Posted by divine_reptiles

Just read on ecrb's tweet page that the amendment passed with no discussion

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Confirmation from Adam W's tweets as well.....http://twitter.com/NOHR669/

However, What does this mean exactly? What form of the amendment passed?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

Confirmation from Adam W's tweets as well.....http://twitter.com/NOHR669/

However, What does this mean exactly? What form of the amendment passed?

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I am trying to get some more info from Adam but so far the word is a ban on Burms and Afrocks. I asked if that meant importation and interstate/breeding and he said yes, depending on how you interpret the law. Don't know exactly what that means.

i am going to take wild guess and say that the burmese pythons taking over the everglades and the populations there are overflated.

Even if burmese pythons are reproducing, laying eggs, and eggs are hatching, there are still major adversities of surviving life for them.

They just don't hatch out of the egg and eat all of the native wildlife...they also provide a food source to many predators that live there.

maybe it's there, but are they just going to ban the importation of burms and af. rocks?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redpython

i am going to take wild guess and say that the burmese pythons taking over the everglades and the populations there are overflated.

Even if burmese pythons are reproducing, laying eggs, and eggs are hatching, there are still major adversities of surviving life for them.

They just don't hatch out of the egg and eat all of the native wildlife...they also provide a food source to many predators that live there.

maybe it's there, but are they just going to ban the importation of burms and af. rocks?

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You probably right about the Burmese Problem being over-hyped.....

Here's a interesting quote form the Barkers on a review they had of a Letter published in the journal Science:

"The paper (letter) ends with the dire warning that the cost of invasive species to the United States is $120 billion annually. Smith et al. are surely quite aware that it is plant species and accidental pest imports that account for all but a tiny fraction of that figure. Terrestrial vertebrate animals legally identified, declared and imported are not the real problem, but they are the primary concern of animal-rights activists."


I will point out something the quote doesn't bring up--the fact that terrestrial vertebrates often do act as vectors for the spread of pests such as ticks.....that's why I asked about the importation practices earlier and if they have changed at all.

REPTILESmag on twitter posted this link!

http://www.reptilechannel.com/reptil...mendments.aspx

-Jeremy

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Originally Posted by JandDReptiles

REPTILESmag on twitter posted this link!

http://www.reptilechannel.com/reptil...mendments.aspx

-Jeremy

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From the link above:

".....the bill would bypass the statuary listing process included in the Lacey Act, according to the Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council (PIJAC). That process requires the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to conduct a risk analysis and seek public comment before listing a species as “injurious.” The Fish and Wildlife Service is currently conducting such an analysis, PIJAC reports.

PIJAC warned concerned pet owners that the legislation, if passed as written, would set a dangerous precedent of adding controversial species to the Lacey Act without hearings and sufficient study. That precedent could affect owners of other pets, including birds, fish and turtles, PIJAC reported."

That the crux of the problem with this legislation.....legal precedent following the precautionary principle.

So let me see here. Correct me if I'm wrong. This means no burmese or rock python sales or anything anymore??

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Originally Posted by twistedtails

So let me see here. Correct me if I'm wrong. This means no burmese or rock python sales or anything anymore??

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The bill has not even been voted on by the full house yet. It's out of committee.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

The bill has not even been voted on by the full house yet. It's out of committee.

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When does the house vote?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by twistedtails

When does the house vote?

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not until September... at the earliest.




This doesn't spell the end of the Burm or Af. Rock right now. It won't until the President puts his OBAMA on it...hehe. That will be a WHILE from now. In the article it states that USARK is going to work on ammending the bill further to only ban the importation of WC Burms and Af. Rocks. We shall see where it goes from here....


-Jeremy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JandDReptiles

not until September... at the earliest.




This doesn't spell the end of the Burm or Af. Rock right now. It won't until the President puts his OBAMA on it...hehe. That will be a WHILE from now. In the article it states that USARK is going to work on ammending the bill further to only ban the importation of WC Burms and Af. Rocks. We shall see where it goes from here....


-Jeremy

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Even if it was reduced to WC Burms and Afrocks, there is still ZERO benefit to this if it becomes law. I suggest our stance from here on out to be that this undermines the provisions set by the Lacey Act, and that it should be thrown out entirely and those provisions should be followed. That is all they should have the right to do, and this should not be an issue we have to compromise on no matter how many animal rights activists and environmentalists whine and moan about it.

Can someone explain the root cause of this legislation?

Is it simply because irresponsible pet owners relase big snakes in the everglades which have caused some environmental reprocussions?

As an outsider looking in it seems as if all this legislation will achieve is stopping legitimate reptile dealers (breeders) from selling some species of snakes?

Because in all reality the people who realase snakes because they dont want them anymore are not generally the people who give a toss if they are "allowed" to have it or not.

Just my 2 cents.

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Originally Posted by thefifthdentist

Can someone explain the root cause of this legislation?

Is it simply because irresponsible pet owners relase big snakes in the everglades which have caused some environmental reprocussions?

As an outsider looking in it seems as if all this legislation will achieve is stopping legitimate reptile dealers (breeders) from selling some species of snakes?

Because in all reality the people who realase snakes because they dont want them anymore are not generally the people who give a toss if they are "allowed" to have it or not.

Just my 2 cents.

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Since when did politics and laws make sense? It's simply a knee jerk reaction to keep the public happy.

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Originally Posted by thefifthdentist

Can someone explain the root cause of this legislation?

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There are two factors driving this legislation.

The first is money. The Congressmen and women from Florida that are driving HR2811 and S373 are not only attempting to get their hands on the hundreds of millions of dollars allocated for the Everglades restoration project, they have also been promised contributions from the Humane Society of the United States and the Nature Conservancy. Combined, these special interest groups take in over 1.3 billion dollars a year and are the driving force behind the sponsors and co-sponsors of HR2811 and S373. My sources in congress have said that lobbyists from HSUS and the Nature Conservancy have been in the offices Representative Meeks (sponsor of HR2811) and Senator Nelsons (sponsor of S373) offices almost weekly since the beginning of the year.

The second force driving these laws is the belief by these groups (HSUS and the Nature Conservancy) that people shouldn't own ANY exotic animals as pets. There are articles on the HSUS website detailing why they feel that reptiles, birds, many small mammals, and most fish are not suitable for pets and how exotic pet owners are not capable of providing them with their basic needs and proper care. HR2811, S373, & HR669 are all direct attempts to begin to chip away at the rights of exotic pet owners and even more legislation is on it's way.

I have a blog post on the NOHR669.com website that talks a little about how HSUS feels about the ownership of exotic pets. http://nohr669.com/blog/?p=321

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Originally Posted by thefifthdentist

Because in all reality the people who realase snakes because they dont want them anymore are not generally the people who give a toss if they are "allowed" to have it or not.

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You are absolutely correct. In reality, all these laws will do is punish good people that are acting responsibly. The problem is that we need a larger unified voice. Our representatives in Congress don't understand that there are far more good people in this hobby than irresponsible ones. That's why it's important for every exotic pet owner to reach out to their local Congressional Representative and Senator and explain to them and their staff that YOU do things the right way ... that YOU would be hurt by these pieces of legislation both financially and personally ... and that YOU would like their help to stop both HR2811 and S373. Starting next week the House and Senate will both be on summer recess. Most representatives will be home in their district offices. It's a PERFECT time to call and ask for an in person meeting to explain your views. Even if you only meet with staff, word will get to the Congressmen and women right away. They want to hear from you, but right now the only people they are hearing from is the special interest groups. Even if only 10 people that read this actually do something, it will make an difference!

We need to stay vigilant. We need to support organizations like USARK & PIJAC through both membership and any donations that we can afford. And we need to be ready to act when called upon. (I know many have already and that's awesome, but we need MORE!!!). It's already begun, but as time goes on we're really going to have to dig down and ask ourselves how much are we personally willing to do to help ... how far are we willing to go to preserve something that we love.

I'm in all the way ... how about you?

-adam