Average profit yearly?

Hi all,

Was just curious how successful people are selling their ball pythons. Wanted to know some average yearly sales.

Something along the lines of:
xxx snakes sold
xxxx.xx income
xxx snakes leftover, reduced price, out of season, etc.
xxxx.xx expenses (supplies, food, etc)
(if possible, xx.xx yearly expense per snake)
xxx breeders

just trying to get an idea of whether I'll sink or swim on my budget. lol. don't need exact numbers, just ballpark figures ;)

any input would be greatly appreciated!!

thanks in advance :)
Fade :banana:

I'm about negative one million dollars! lol
I think you may find that most people will not post figures like that in a public forum. I say do it for the love of the hobby and if you get big enough for positive cash flow then more power to ya!

Ball park? I am not even close to break even :O, maybe next year who knows.

As far as a profit not sure it will happen and if it does when that will be.

I might break even in a couple years.

lol. well, this subject seems promising so far :P

I am about -$3500 right now, will be -$4500 shortly

You can't expect this hobby to break even for quite a few years even after a lot of investment.

You have to do it for the love of the animals, genetics, and breeding. Chances are, you won't 'get rich quick'.

i wouldnt say im down any money, i love them as pets for now and breeding them would just be a bonus to it
ive spent about 500 between a rack and snakes this year

as far as feeding expenses for me..... its free, i breed rats for myself and some friends and a couple customers, so the only profit im getting so far is from the rats plus i enjoy doing it

In a business perspective, Im down -1100, soon to be -1800, and -3400 by next year. From a hobbyist perspective, Im winning! :banana:

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

You can't expect this hobby to break even for quite a few years even after a lot of investment.

You have to do it for the love of the animals, genetics, and breeding. Chances are, you won't 'get rich quick'.

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I would be doing it for the love of the animals. not looking to get rich, just wondering if I'll be able to keep it somewhere close to minimal losses lol.

as much as I'd love to do it as a career, I know the market for snakes fluctuates and wouldn't be so reliable as a sole source of income :P

I'll end up running all of my own figures to see exactly how many I can start with while avoiding going broke :rofl:

glad to see everyone's input though :)

We're upside down.. right now.. :D With over 5K in purchases since Jan and an investment of over 12K over the last three years. On top of building a Rat barn, adding racks ect also must be taken into account.

Puls theres the revolving expence of the rats and the growing expence of hatching babys.

I knew I saw a great post by Neil relating to this a while ago...it took some digging but I found it!

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Originally Posted by neilgolli

I can give you a quick breakdown of my business.

I produce around 750 balls a year, plus some colubrids (300 - 400), some boa's, some retics (this year hopefully). I do around $500,000 a year in total sales, not bad for working at home with animals I love. HOWEVER my costs are huge.

$1,000 a week in rodents
$800 a month in utilities
$1,000 a month in advertising / show expenses
$10,000 a year with superior
$10,000 a year in upgrading / adding new racks
$20,000 this year in moving costs
$30,000 a year minimum in upgrading my own collection with new animals.

I make more than enough for a comfortable living and pay all of my bills without much trouble however I don't really pay myself for my time. I have not been on a real vacation in 8 or 9 years. I'll be honest, I don't put anywhere near enough money away for retirement and live fairly frugally.

I've got money in the bank, but again with such high overhead, one or two bad months could drain saving really quickly as my overhead does not change even in the winter when I'm no longer really have anything to sell.

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Hobbies are expensive.
I guess it depends what you intend to do.
If you want to supply the world's pet trade with snakes, you could make a living at it. I'm sure Brian and Lisa at BHB make a good living at it. I think Ralph Davis has a construction business and his wife has a salon(not saying he doesn't make big $ being the ball python king).
I've probably spent more than 20 grand on the hobby over the past 6 years. My baby snake sells maybe 5 grand(UHHHHH and my wife got all the 5 grand/ how does that work???????). No regrets!!! My wife and I enjoy the hobby!!! We have a "small" collection(about 20 snakes/the # is ever changing).

Rich, I remembered the post and couldn't for the life of me remember who posted it. He summed it up very well.

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Originally Posted by Spaniard

I knew I saw a great post by Neil relating to this a while ago...it took some digging but I found it!

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500,000 - 143600(expenses he listed) = $356,400

Thats enough profit to hire people to help around and also take a vacation. If he is living frugal and say his expenses 20% higher I dont see where he is hurting?

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Originally Posted by Clear

500,000 - 143600(expenses he listed) = $356,400

Thats enough profit to hire people to help around and also take a vacation. If he is living frugal and say his expenses 20% higher I dont see where he is hurting?

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I don't know since I'm not Neil but I would imagine there are other expenses in there that he did not list. Perhaps savings, mortgage, retirement funds, I know he keeps a lot of farm animals as well.

Who are we to judge anyway?

You are busting open a nice can of worms here.....I posted a thread along the same lines and it produced some well rooted opinions. Have a look at my thread and you might get the answer your looking for. It has a poll also:gj:

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=92488

We are in the red and have been for the last 3 years. We will probably make it to the black this year if I stop buying more snakes.

For us it went from business to hobby to obsession:D

Honestly dont get into it for the money, get into it for the fun!

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Originally Posted by Spaniard

I don't know since I'm not Neil but I would imagine there are other expenses in there that he did not list. Perhaps savings, mortgage, retirement funds, I know he keeps a lot of farm animals as well.

Who are we to judge anyway?

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also things like insurance, cost of travel to do shows, paper consumables, TAXES!!!,

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

also things like insurance, cost of travel to do shows, paper consumables, TAXES!!!,

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TAXES!!!!!:bolt:

I am probably -10k

I have about spent about 25K over the past 2.5 years. That is rats, racks, and animals. No utilities or time is added into that.
Trey

We are about 15k in the red (not debt, but in ratio of money invested vs. profits). That is not including cost to raise feeders, things like electric or cage bedding, which is a few grand yearly. How many snakes have we sold? None. LOL, someday I'll sell more snakes than rats. :8:

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Originally Posted by Clear

500,000 - 143600(expenses he listed) = $356,400

Thats enough profit to hire people to help around and also take a vacation. If he is living frugal and say his expenses 20% higher I dont see where he is hurting?

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Yea, mortgage, taxes, cost of living, retirement, vehicles, credit cards, utilities, cables, phones... there is likely to be very little left over to use as "extra".

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Originally Posted by Jason Bowden

Hobbies are expensive.
I guess it depends what you intend to do.
If you want to supply the world's pet trade with snakes, you could make a living at it. I'm sure Brian and Lisa at BHB make a good living at it. I think Ralph Davis has a construction business and his wife has a salon(not saying he doesn't make big $ being the ball python king).
I've probably spent more than 20 grand on the hobby over the past 6 years. My baby snake sells maybe 5 grand(UHHHHH and my wife got all the 5 grand/ how does that work???????). No regrets!!! My wife and I enjoy the hobby!!! We have a "small" collection(about 20 snakes/the # is ever changing).

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*coughBrainandLoricough*

as for me, i just started this hobby a year ago well atleast accually owning an animal. im about 5k in, only money ive made is selling rats and mice and they pretty much support their own costs now, thats about it, so i guess im hoping one day ill sell more than 5k in animals.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Yea, mortgage, taxes, cost of living, retirement, vehicles, credit cards, utilities, cables, phones... there is likely to be very little left over to use as "extra".

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well i think someone mentioned he has a farm, so i guess i could see that getting expensive, but i pay all the aboved on a 40,000 a year.... so im sure he does just fine.

but also i can't imagine how long it takes to take care of all those animals and its kinda a high risk thing to do, one bad illness could ruin him or a bad year or reproducing. give and take i guess

Yep - Lisa is a Lori! Who could forget the Lori Ball!
Sounds like Neil Goli pays 6 figures in taxes! Or at least I bet the IRS has fun with him!LOL

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Originally Posted by Spaniard

I knew I saw a great post by Neil relating to this a while ago...it took some digging but I found it!

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that was exactly the kind of thing I was looking for. thanks for the heads up!

I've tried doing some sketchy figures myself and I know I won't be able to get into breeding as a business to support me and my girlfriend for some time. no matter how I look at it, I'll have to have a part time job atleast to be able to cover rent, utilities and other bills. not to mention recreational activities like movies and what not lol.

I really appreciate everyone's responses though, it's giving me a much better idea of the outlook I'll have for the upcoming years. I'll have to stick to the plan (make a mantra out of it or something lol!). I know I won't though...there will be too many snakes calling my name at the upcoming expos...I just know it...:rofl:

My personal observations have been that if you get in it for the money, it's like swimming in shark infested waters wearing concrete blocks.

Good luck :gj:

Just wondering. How do you go on vacation with over 1,000 snakes at home?
LOL

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Originally Posted by Jason Bowden

Just wondering. How do you go on vacation with over 1,000 snakes at home?
LOL

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big screen with one of those "hawaiian vacation scenery" dvds? :P

Since I've come up as a case example:) I'll give a few more details and an update since the post was made.....


The largest item not included in the above post was obviously TAXES, both sales tax, state and federal. Don't forget that I'm self employed so I don't pay 7.5% for social security (which won't be around for me anyway), I pay 15%............

Also, because of relocating my animals twice this year from florida to a commercial space in Ohio (add almost 10K cost plus much higher utilities) for 6 months then moving them again to a new building on my own property (20K upgrade to the building already onsite) my overall ball python production is currently looking like it will be HALF of what it was last year. I'm also still paying a $3,000 a month mortgage on a house in florida that I owe 300K on thats now only worth 170. This will be the first year that I actually loose money in that last 5 years.

Money comes and goes very easy in this industry. Profits are harder and harder to come by. A tidy profit last year is all that is going to keep me afloat this year. Hopefully my females are well rested this year (from NOT laying eggs for me now:mad:) will produce great next year and I'll be able to recover the loses from this year.

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Originally Posted by Jason Bowden

Just wondering. How do you go on vacation with over 1,000 snakes at home?
LOL

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you have to look at shows as mini vacations. You just have to work really really hard before, during and even harder once you get back. For some reason everyone still poops when your not around, they just don't get it..........

I've spent about $6,000 on my collection and in my first breeding season I made about $600 in trades off two clutches.. I'm counting trades and cash the same cause this is a hobby for me all I want is for it to pay for itself. By the end of this season I should be even. Its all about the collection for me, I know that its way to difficult to do it for a living especially during a recession.

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Originally Posted by Jason Bowden

Just wondering. How do you go on vacation with over 1,000 snakes at home?
LOL

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The snakes will be fine if left alone for a week.

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Originally Posted by monk90222

The snakes will be fine if left alone for a week.

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Very true, no one is going to fall over and drop dead unattended for a week HOWEVER there is a TON of catch up work to get done when you even think of being gone for a week.

And there are some companies that have quite a staff that helps keeps things in order - surely, when boss man takes time off, the staff is there keeping things in order.

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Originally Posted by neilgolli

Very true, no one is going to fall over and drop dead unattended for a week HOWEVER there is a TON of catch up work to get done when you even think of being gone for a week.

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I could just imagine the amount of time it takes to clean/sterilize all the bins for the ball pythons alone. and with the added fortune of your colubrids and others...lol. I bet that's a fun few days back home, eh? XD

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

well i think someone mentioned he has a farm, so i guess i could see that getting expensive, but i pay all the aboved on a 40,000 a year.... so im sure he does just fine.

but also i can't imagine how long it takes to take care of all those animals and its kinda a high risk thing to do, one bad illness could ruin him or a bad year or reproducing. give and take i guess

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LOL, I don't know where you live to get all of that on $40k a year, but that's where I want to be!!! :8:

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

LOL, I don't know where you live to get all of that on $40k a year, but that's where I want to be!!! :8:

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i live in michigan, in the suburbs 20 mins north of detroit, i got a house thats worth 150k for 100k, refianced my morgage and now pay 550 a month. city taxes are about 2.5k a year.

i paid off both my cars b4 i got a house and i pay off my credit card every month (they're not getting any intrest from me) so i don't have to pay for those.

40k is easy for me.

Well, then what you're saying is you don't have any car payments, no balance on the credit cards, AND you live in Michigan so we know how the market is here. ;)

Not quite "but i pay all the aboved on a 40,000 a year.... So im sure he does just fine."