Woma hidden gene

Do all womas have the hidden gene or only nerds line???

NERD has two woma lines they work with, one has the hidden gene and the other does not.

There is actually only 1 line of woma, it is believed that the origional woma was bred to a special female and those babies are the ones with the "special" gene.

Womas on their own do not have the special gene, and the ones with the gene seem to look pretty normal as the gene is a suttle one.

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Originally Posted by jnjreptiles

There is actually only 1 line of woma, it is believed that the origional woma was bred to a special female and those babies are the ones with the "special" gene.

Womas on their own do not have the special gene, and the ones with the gene seem to look pretty normal as the gene is a suttle one.

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Hmmm if its a combo and you can't tell a hidden gene from a regular woma wonder how they can sell them with all certainty that it carries the gene..

Hidden gene's intrigue me to no end

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Originally Posted by jnjreptiles

There is actually only 1 line of woma, it is believed that the origional woma was bred to a special female and those babies are the ones with the "special" gene.

Womas on their own do not have the special gene, and the ones with the gene seem to look pretty normal as the gene is a suttle one.

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When questioned on Reptile Radio about the inferno Keven went on to talk about the hidden woma gene. He was the one who stated they have two lines...so I dunno :confused:

Not doubting your statement but just wanted to put out there where I got my information from.

so all the combos are made from gene or any reg woma will do , meaning the the lesser woma

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Originally Posted by Spaniard

NERD has two woma lines they work with, one has the hidden gene and the other does not.

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Originally Posted by jnjreptiles

There is actually only 1 line of woma, it is believed that the origional woma was bred to a special female and those babies are the ones with the "special" gene.

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I would guess you are both correct, but the word "line" is rather ambiguous.

As is evidenced in these 2 posts, it can refer to everything descended from the original morph, or it could also refer to a much smaller subset.

The best example of this that I know of is in corn snakes. Abbott's okeetees are very well known, and I don't think anyone would dispute that they deserve to be considered a separate line. However, I've heard that most if not all of Lee Abbott's founding stock was selected from the Love line of okeetees. Okeetee itself is just a line of normals that came from a region that tended to have more brightly colored snakes. So that's 3 different lines (of normals!) that all originated from the same group of WCs.

I have also wondered about how they know if any one particular woma carries the hidden gene. Even if it descended from the hidden gene line, that doesn't guarantee it has the gene. There must be subtle visible differences, but so far I've never heard what those are.

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Originally Posted by ang3l3s

so all the combos are made from gene or any reg woma will do , meaning the the lesser woma

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Some womas have the hidden gene. Some don't. There isn't a ton of information about the hidden gene out there yet, only time and crossing out hidden gene womas will tell.

Hidden gene womas when paired with lessers can make "soul suckers".

Non hidden-gene womas when paired with lessers can only make lesser-womas, which look very different than soul suckers, but are very beautiful in their own right.

agreed.. but a woma lesser pastel comes close dont' u think

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Originally Posted by kc261

I have also wondered about how they know if any one particular woma carries the hidden gene. Even if it descended from the hidden gene line, that doesn't guarantee it has the gene. There must be subtle visible differences, but so far I've never heard what those are.

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IIRC, from the same RR mentioned above, Kevin notes that the hidden gene womas do have a subtle "marker" trait to them but he does not really say what it is.

Whats this hidden gene guys? I've been trying to figure it out for a while. Cuz when you hit a woma to a woma they make pearls right? Is that the hidden gene? lol. I had a friend ask Amir about the hidden gene, but all he said was womaXwoma= pearl.

A hidden gen is a gene that has no visual effect on the original animal but falls on the same allele as other morphs so creating a different looking combo.

No one really knows what the hidden gene is. It sems to be an enhancer of sorts, causeing interesting phenotypes but that is all anyone can really say.

The Pearl has nothing to do with the hidden gene. It is just the name of the lethal super form of woma

One idea a friend of ours had is that the soul sucker is a woma lesser with the special crystal gene. The hidden gene in the woma might be the crystal gene/special that the original woma was unknowingly bred to.

Just a idea, but could have some potential....

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Originally Posted by jnjreptiles

One idea a friend of ours had is that the soul sucker is a woma lesser with the special crystal gene. The hidden gene in the woma might be the crystal gene/special that the original woma was unknowingly bred to.

Just a idea, but could have some potential....

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yeah I was thinking the same thing, just a carrier of one of the less common BEL complex genes(or a new one that hasn't been named yet).. phantoms, specials, and maybe some other BEL complex genes might not make a huge visual impact when paired with the woma gene.

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Originally Posted by BallPython17

Whats this hidden gene guys? I've been trying to figure it out for a while. Cuz when you hit a woma to a woma they make pearls right? Is that the hidden gene? lol. I had a friend ask Amir about the hidden gene, but all he said was womaXwoma= pearl.

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As the story goes(at least as I understand it), NERD paired a woma with a lesser, and a BP hatched out that looked NOTHING like what you'd expect. It was dubbed the "soul sucker". IMO it looks similar to the homozygous form of the "special" morph or "phantom" morph.

Successive breedings of lessers and womas hatched out what we know of today as lesser-womas, something that DOES look like what you'd expect.

This lead to speculation that the woma that produced the soul sucker wasn't just a woma.. but since it pretty much looks just like a woma, they called it a "hidden gene woma".

A lack of tons of information has made things tricky for people to truly understand what is going on here, but it is pretty much assumed by many people, including myself, that what are now called "hidden gene womas"(which when paired with lessers make soul suckers) are combo morphs of woma and a less-than-obvious BEL complex gene that is similar to phantoms or specials.

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

A lack of tons of information has made things tricky for people to truly understand what is going on here, but it is pretty much assumed by many people, including myself, that what are now called "hidden gene womas"(which when paired with lessers make soul suckers) are combo morphs of woma and a less-than-obvious BEL complex gene that is similar to phantoms or specials.

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I agree on the total lack of information making it tricky.

Somewhere on these boards I commented that RDRs hidden gene and the woma hidden gene were related and someone told me I was totally incorrect on that. I was told that the hidden gene in woma is not related to the BluEL group because the SoulSucker is homozygous for hidden... I wish like nothing else I could find that thread but my searches so far are coming up empty... I'll keep trying

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Originally Posted by asplundii

I agree on the total lack of information making it tricky.

Somewhere on these boards I commented that RDRs hidden gene and the woma hidden gene were related and someone told me I was totally incorrect on that. I was told that the hidden gene in woma is not related to the BluEL group because the SoulSucker is homozygous for hidden... I wish like nothing else I could find that thread but my searches so far are coming up empty... I'll keep trying

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That would make sense because if the hidden gene was part of the BEL complex, then a Woma Hidden-Gene Lesser combo (Soul Sucker) would, in theory, produce a BEL... A snake with two allels of the BEL complex produces a white snake. (in this case Lesser and Hidden-Gene, if the Hidden Gene was a part of the complex).

Hmmmm......

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Originally Posted by LGL

A snake with two allels of the BEL complex produces a white snake.

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not entirely true.

homozygous mojaves have greyed heads.

phantom-lessers make white snakes(I believe), but super phantoms have distinct coloration and patterning to them.

I'm not 100% up to par on the history of the "special"(another BEL complex gene), but from what I understand the special-mojo combo makes the "crystal", which is definitely not an all white snake.

butters and lessers are what people typically think of when they think of "BEL complex", and the homozygous forms are pretty much all white snakes with blue eyes, but there is so much more to the BEL complex than butters and lessers.

also does anyone know if the original soul sucker carries the woma gene? in theory, a hidden gene woma, if my understanding of the genetics behind it is correct, when paired with a lesser, can produce a hidden gene-lesser combo, and a hidden gene-woma-lesser combo (and other possibilities that don't pertain to my question).

Looking at the soul sucker, I could see it going either way as far as whether or not it actually carries the woma gene.

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

not entirely true.

homozygous mojaves have greyed heads.

phantom-lessers make white snakes(I believe), but super phantoms have distinct coloration and patterning to them.

I'm not 100% up to par on the history of the "special"(another BEL complex gene), but from what I understand the special-mojo combo makes the "crystal", which is definitely not an all white snake.

butters and lessers are what people typically think of when they think of "BEL complex", and the homozygous forms are pretty much all white snakes with blue eyes, but there is so much more to the BEL complex than butters and lessers.

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I stand corrected. Thank you. So maybe it is a Special or something...

Well I found it:

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ht=hidden+gene

Starts getting into the nitty-gritty on page 2

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Originally Posted by LGL

That would make sense because if the hidden gene was part of the BEL complex, then a Woma Hidden-Gene Lesser combo (Soul Sucker) would, in theory, produce a BEL... A snake with two allels of the BEL complex produces a white snake. (in this case Lesser and Hidden-Gene, if the Hidden Gene was a part of the complex).

Hmmmm......

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Not totally true. The Phantom is a member of the BluEL group yet SuperPhantom is not a white snake... And consensus is that RDRs "daddy" gene is part of the BluEL group as well but we have yet to see a super form of that despite reports of RDR breeding "hets" for "daddy" for some years...

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Originally Posted by jnjreptiles

There is actually only 1 line of woma, it is believed that the origional woma was bred to a special female and those babies are the ones with the "special" gene.

Womas on their own do not have the special gene, and the ones with the gene seem to look pretty normal as the gene is a suttle one.

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Uh...no. There's more than one line of Womas, and the "hidden" gene carriers have nothing to do with a separate "special female."

Per Kev. You know, pillow talk & what not. :)

K~

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Originally Posted by KLG

Uh...no. There's more than one line of Womas, and the "hidden" gene carriers have nothing to do with a separate "special female."

Per Kev. You know, pillow talk & what not. :)

K~

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Then what exactly is the hidden gene? Is it an actual separate gene that has nothing to do with the woma mutation but works to modify it? Or are there two different womalike mutations?

You got a talking pillow? Cool. :D

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Then what exactly is the hidden gene? Is it an actual separate gene that has nothing to do with the woma mutation but works to modify it? Or are there two different womalike mutations?

You got a talking pillow? Cool. :D

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Dood...I will poke Kev w/a stick & get him to come talk about it. All Womas are not created equal, I can say that much. The rest is just blood pythons to me. Balls are fun to play with and drool over. ;) :rolleyes:

And yeah, my talkin' pillow rawks my socks! Now if I could just train it to flip to the cool side on its own... :P

K~

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Originally Posted by KLG

Dood...I will poke Kev w/a stick & get him to come talk about it.

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Oh good. I hope Kevin will come discuss it. I got excited when I saw you had replied to this thread, then slightly disappointed when your response didn't really answer many of the questions.

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Originally Posted by kc261

Oh good. I hope Kevin will come discuss it. I got excited when I saw you had replied to this thread, then slightly disappointed when your response didn't really answer many of the questions.

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Oh, well...sorry about that. :P Again, ball pythons aren't really my thing. Hang tight, he'll be here to clarify....:rolleyes:

K~

Oh, well...sorry about that. :P Again, ball pythons aren't really my thing. Hang tight, he'll be here to clarify....:rolleyes:[

K~[/QUOTE]
yeah yeah yeah....I'll believe it when I see it! ;) Wait, are we talking about Kevin or the talking pillow....i'm so confused!

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Originally Posted by KLG

Oh, well...sorry about that. :P Again, ball pythons aren't really my thing. Hang tight, he'll be here to clarify....:rolleyes:

K~

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No problem! After your first post, I assumed you were just keeping the mystery mysterious. ;)

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Originally Posted by KLG

Dood...I will poke Kev w/a stick & get him to come talk about it.

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Please, please do. I would love a chance to pick his brain :D

so i guess there are no answers just more secrets related to money

Search the threads for "Hidden Gene Woma" and my user name and you will find more than a few discussions that answer your question.

**Thread Revival**

Did anything ever come about with this topic? What actually is "The Hidden Gene Woma" and are they really two different lines of the same snake? And if they are, is the "hidden gene" something only the Woma can carry? You would think by now you would have "hidden gene lessers, mojaves, pastels, etc... if not but I have not seen anything like that:confused:

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Originally Posted by Monster Dodge

**Thread Revival**

Did anything ever come about with this topic? What actually is "The Hidden Gene Woma" and are they really two different lines of the same snake? And if they are, is the "hidden gene" something only the Woma can carry? You would think by now you would have "hidden gene lessers, mojaves, pastels, etc... if not but I have not seen anything like that:confused:

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I got told it goes like this...

someone imports woma
later kevin imports something that looks like woma, calls it woma
breeding shows they are not the same thing, it appear to have a hidden gene
we call it the hidden gene woma, but in truth its just a completely different morph that looks like the orginal woma
homozygous HG woma makes pearl, homozygous woma is not proven.
it appears the hidden gene has latched onto lesser gene, but i thought i've seen some HG woma lessers and then the soul sucker which is a HG woma x HG lesser. so I don't understand how that works exactly.

ok now someone correct my above statements, like I said I got told this from who knows where, who knows how long ago.