super cinnamon/super black pastel

I want to make one of these eventually but i have seen some of them with "duck billed" heads. Is there any way to prevent this? do both genes do this?

To my knowledge it's case by case, and there are multiple lines of both Cinnamons and Black Pastels so I imagine it is possible that one of them doesn't have this problem.

What exactly is a "duck billed head"?

Does someone have a picture?

http://www.ballpythonmorphs.com/daytona07/bhb23.jpg

Clearly defined "duck bill"

I've seen this mentioned before. Does anyone know which lines this has happened with?

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

I've seen this mentioned before. Does anyone know which lines this has happened with?

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I think it occurs in all the lines, But from what I have heard, the Ian G. line is the least likely one to have these genetic flaws.

i think it looks kinda cool, is there anything wrong with the duck bill besides it looks weird

i too think its cool!

I've heard that breeding different lines will lessen the effect, but I don't know if this is fact or rumor. I've seen some individuals that didn't have as pronounced of a duckbill as others and those have been from different lines, so I think it'll have to be something that's line bred out. Personally I don't worry about the duck bills myself, I don't think it detracts from the looks all that much. What I worry about is that the supers also show a propensity for occaisional kinking.

I too believe the issue may be resolved by breeding unrelated animals.

I remember back when I was researching both Cinnys & Black Pastels, the trait was first noted in Cinnys. Then I saw the 1st Sliver Bullet & knew I had to get in on the Black Pastels. I liked the funky patterns on them & how dark they are.

I contacted Chris @ GCR about an outstanding male they had & after speaking with him, he confirmed the animal was from the same WC group as Ian G's line. After I got my boy, I got an unrelated female & this year they produced this girl:

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...s/IMG_4579.jpg

You'll note she has white on the sides of her face but no "duck bill":
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...s/IMG_4587.jpg

Well, the thing about the GCR line is that as far as I know, they were the VERY FIRST to produce a super... And it was extremely cool to see an all black ball python.... Unfortunately, those first animals they produced were also kinked with duckbills.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Well, the thing about the GCR line is that as far as I know, they were the VERY FIRST to produce a super... And it was extremely cool to see an all black ball python.... Unfortunately, those first animals they produced were also kinked with duckbills.

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You know what grinds my gears a little? Everyone getting on the caramel "kink tail" bandwagon when there are other morphs with occ. issues (like duckbill) and I don't feel they are made as big of a deal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Well, the thing about the GCR line is that as far as I know, they were the VERY FIRST to produce a super... And it was extremely cool to see an all black ball python.... Unfortunately, those first animals they produced were also kinked with duckbills.

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Line breeding can enhance flaws, the first duckbills I saw were Cinny, but I have no definite knowledge of who produced the very 1st... I just picked the morph I liked best & got unrelated animals. It's worked for me so far. :)

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Originally Posted by TaylorS

You know what grinds my gears a little? Everyone getting on the caramel "kink tail" bandwagon when there are other morphs with occ. issues (like duckbill) and I don't feel they are made as big of a deal.

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I agree that some morphs have their challenges and each breeder has to determine what they are willing to work with. I love the T+ Albinos but I had worked with another species before BPs that were homozygous lethal. I was able to reduce the 50% adv. defect that most breeders saw down to 25%, but that's still allot of deaths. That's a big reason I got out of that.

Minor defects that I can work around, I'll work with. But kinking- well that's increasing the chance that I'll have to put babies down. I'm hoping the Ultramels prove to be a line that doesn't have the issues that the other T+ do. If so, I may work with them eventually. If not I will have plenty of other stuff to work with. I respect each breeder's personal decisions to pursue the projects they love.