Here you are...

Since this topic of creating a new thread, when the problem could have been addressed in the current thread, was repeatedly brought up. I will do so now.

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Originally Posted by JLC

The original point of this thread has been dragged through the mud and beat to death far long enough. Questions have been asked and answered. Anyone reading it is free to come to their own conclusions about who was "right" and who was "wrong" and who the "donkeys" are.

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The question wasn't exactly answered. The thread just went back and forth.

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Originally Posted by JLC

I would like to remind members that if they have a problem with staff, there are ways to address it that do not involve dragging threads off topic and adding more mud to an already difficult situation.

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There is the problem. Addressing the problem with staff...because quite frankly, where does it lead? I don't see it going fairly far.

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Originally Posted by JLC

First and foremost, the very best thing to do if you have an issue with something a staff member has said or done is to address them directly and privately about it. If you truly feel that such contact would go badly, then please feel free to contact any other staff member, whoever you feel most comfortable talking with. We're always glad to work things out. We're not perfect and do make mistakes and work hard to hold each other accountable for genuine errors.

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Another problem. Most of the "problems" brought up, if not all, are addressed to all staff, in the administrators/moderators forum, no? As such, how is it being properly handled when its a staff members word, against a simple members word. I see unfair and unequal treatment. A simple turn your back and look the other way.

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Originally Posted by JLC

If you have some reason for feeling like your complaint MUST be made public, then we have the Site Info forum for you to make a comment in.

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Posted.

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Originally Posted by JLC

I'd like to point out that if the staff here were so completely biased and unreasonable as we've been accused of being, then those accusing members would probably already be gone...or at least have heavy infractions levied against them. But nothing of the sort has happened, because we do respect people's rights to voice their opinions, so long as they are not intentionally trying to undermine the integrity of the site or the staff.

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Actually, most I've seen would rather nit pick, and irritate the member. What you all so famously call "bear baiting" I've seen it done. It just happened to me in the BHB thread. What comes of that? Infractions? I don't believe so. Is it removed? No, I don't believe so either. So where is the fairness or justification in this forum?

This forum has claimed to be fairest. I've seen claims of equal treatment. Claims can be made all day long, yet where are the actions?

How many times has it been brought up that any breeder may be questioned no matter who they are? Yet, whenever one is questioned that seems to be friends with you, or your staff, the individual questioning or inquiring on their practices is attacked. That doesn't seem like equal treatment to me, nor a fair forum.

The question at mind seems to be.... Where is the proof that your forum is very fair, or "fairest" as so claimed?

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Originally Posted by CeraDigital

Since this topic of creating a new thread, when the problem could have been addressed in the current thread, was repeatedly brought up. I will do so now.


The question wasn't exactly answered. The thread just went back and forth.

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Which question wasn't answered? The one about the giant snakes? That he only has a handful of? That he already said he had ordered larger housing for? Or the one about the housing for the monitor? Where he explained why he fed in a separate tub AND that he no longer even has the monitor to house, however correctly or incorrectly in everyone else's eyes?

Whether or not you, personally, are happy with those answers, they were given.

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There is the problem. Addressing the problem with staff...because quite frankly, where does it lead? I don't see it going fairly far.

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It went here, didn't it? I'm taking the time to type out an answer for you. What, exactly, do you expect us to do? Turn over the running of the forum to you so that it runs the way you think it should?

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Another problem. Most of the "problems" brought up, if not all, are addressed to all staff, in the administrators/moderators forum, no? As such, how is it being properly handled when its a staff members word, against a simple members word. I see unfair and unequal treatment. A simple turn your back and look the other way.

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Either you trust the staff to handle matters with integrity...or you do not. It's as simple as that. If you don't trust us, then there is absolutely nothing I can say to make you do so. All I can do (and all the entire staff can do) is to continue to run the site as best we can, with as much integrity and honesty as is humanly possible. I'm sorry if that's not good enough for you. There are lots of other communities to get involved in, and maybe some other staff at some other site will better fit YOUR personal idea of "fair."

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Actually, most I've seen would rather nit pick, and irritate the member. What you all so famously call "bear baiting" I've seen it done. It just happened to me in the BHB thread. What comes of that? Infractions? I don't believe so. Is it removed? No, I don't believe so either. So where is the fairness or justification in this forum?

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I'm quite sure you will NOT see my point of view here...but my point of view is the only one I have to offer. I did not see "bear baiting" in anything that rabernet said in response to you. Incredulity, maybe. But I did not see her trying to get a rise out of you and intentionally provoke you into an unreasonable outburst.

Should the entire site be run on YOUR definition of fairness? Should we justify all our actions based on YOUR thought processes? How can we do that? Not just for you, but for any individual? All we can do is gather together the most mature, level-headed people who are willing to donate their time and emotional energy to running this site. We work hard to make sure we hold ourselves accountable to very high standards of behavior, as well as rule creation and enforcement. We make mistakes...and when we do, we correct them as quickly as possible. In this one particular instance though, I do not see a mistake having been made.

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This forum has claimed to be fairest. I've seen claims of equal treatment. Claims can be made all day long, yet where are the actions?

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So fair and equal are only in your eyes, then? Our actions are the hours and hours spent each and every day by every single member of this staff to keep the site up and running as smoothly as possible. Will we occasionally have disagreements with members? Certainly. If you think it's possible to run a site like this, with THIS MANY people participating each and every day...to never have some sort of conflict or disagreement, I'd really, really like for you to share with me how that can be. What's your secret???

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How many times has it been brought up that any breeder may be questioned no matter who they are? Yet, whenever one is questioned that seems to be friends with you, or your staff, the individual questioning or inquiring on their practices is attacked. That doesn't seem like equal treatment to me, nor a fair forum.

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Did we allow people to question Brian? Of course we did. Did any single member suffer retaliation, infraction, or banning because of their participation in that thread. No. Is staff not allowed to agree or disagree as their own opinions warrant? How is the fact that the overall opinion of the staff goes one way means we don't allow a discussion to continue or happen at all?

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The question at mind seems to be.... Where is the proof that your forum is very fair, or "fairest" as so claimed?

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I could ask you the same thing, Andrew. Where is your proof that it is so awfully unfair? All this based on the simple fact that we don't agree with you on a topic or two? :confused:

Another point on fairness. Said "Big snakes, small enclosures" thread is locked, correct? Yet the moderators still post in it. One quoting, and outright attacking the opinion of another member, yet due to the thread being locked, the member cannot defend himself. How is that fair? How does that make this forum "fair" when such is going on?...

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Originally Posted by jp-reptiles

i am sure that franykeno and dsirkle did see that too small enclosures but protecting him cause the want to kiss his butt and because they like him i think, their are 100 pics and movies online to prove that brian keeps alot of his giants in too small enclosures...........

regards ''jp''

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Originally Posted by dsirkle

I kiss nobody's butt, not Brian's and not yours. And since you are sure of the motives of people that you don't know personally and have never met, you demonstrate that you know nothing.

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Originally Posted by CeraDigital

Another point on fairness. Said "Big snakes, small enclosures" thread is locked, correct? Yet the moderators still post in it. One quoting, and outright attacking the opinion of another member, yet due to the thread being locked, the member cannot defend himself. How is that fair? How does that make this forum "fair" when such is going on?...

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THAT was a mistake, and I apologize for it. It is entirely likely that Dale did not realize the thread had been locked. The "reply" button continues to work as normal for staff members, so it is all too easy to respond in a locked thread if they didn't notice it was locked to begin with.

I agree with you 100% that staff members should not post in locked threads in order to argue with someone that can't respond back in the same fashion.

Unbelievable...its almost like he thinks he pays to be here...so the admins/mods should do everything to his liking. This is a free forum!!! No one owes you anything. I have been to a TON of forums with absolutely horrid admins/mods...its great here ( I havnt been here too long, I am stating from my personal experience so far). But really, Compared to other forums, this place is great! Atleast you have the option to debate without an instant ban.

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Originally Posted by JLC

Which question wasn't answered? The one about the giant snakes? That he only has a handful of? That he already said he had ordered larger housing for? Or the one about the housing for the monitor? Where he explained why he fed in a separate tub AND that he no longer even has the monitor to house, however correctly or incorrectly in everyone else's eyes?

Whether or not you, personally, are happy with those answers, they were given.

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Now when another breeder would have given such answer, they would have probably been ripped apart for "lying" or covering up their story, correct?

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Originally Posted by JLC

It went here, didn't it? I'm taking the time to type out an answer for you. What, exactly, do you expect us to do? Turn over the running of the forum to you so that it runs the way you think it should?

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Or perhaps give better practice towards equal treatment. Would that not be definition of fair? "Equal"

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Originally Posted by JLC

Either you trust the staff to handle matters with integrity...or you do not. It's as simple as that. If you don't trust us, then there is absolutely nothing I can say to make you do so. All I can do (and all the entire staff can do) is to continue to run the site as best we can, with as much integrity and honesty as is humanly possible. I'm sorry if that's not good enough for you. There are lots of other communities to get involved in, and maybe some other staff at some other site will better fit YOUR personal idea of "fair."

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What guarantee can you give, other than integrity, to provide a "fair" and "equal" forum? What proof do you have, as has been claimed, that this is a fair, or "fairest" internet forum...

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Originally Posted by JLC

I'm quite sure you will NOT see my point of view here...but my point of view is the only one I have to offer. I did not see "bear baiting" in anything that rabernet said in response to you. Incredulity, maybe. But I did not see her trying to get a rise out of you and intentionally provoke you into an unreasonable outburst.

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Oh? Practically making fun of my statement. I do believe that would be bear baiting.

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Originally Posted by JLC

Should the entire site be run on YOUR definition of fairness? Should we justify all our actions based on YOUR thought processes? How can we do that? Not just for you, but for any individual? All we can do is gather together the most mature, level-headed people who are willing to donate their time and emotional energy to running this site. We work hard to make sure we hold ourselves accountable to very high standards of behavior, as well as rule creation and enforcement. We make mistakes...and when we do, we correct them as quickly as possible. In this one particular instance though, I do not see a mistake having been made.

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I had not seen that mistake "corrected". I am not the only individual who had seen that as poking a stick, bear baiting, or making fun. Perhaps you should go and look back on it.

As for my fairness? Perhaps you should look at what fairness means, before claiming a fair site.

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Originally Posted by Fairness

air1  [fair] Show IPA adjective, -er, -est, adverb, -er, -est, noun, verb
–adjective
1. free from bias, dishonesty, or injustice: a fair decision; a fair judge.
2. legitimately sought, pursued, done, given, etc.; proper under the rules: a fair fight.

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You preach fairness, yet I have seen other breeders, such as Wes Harris attacked for no reason other than your own justifications. You all were pretty severe on him...please do, tell.... how much do you know of the truth about what went on, other than claims on fauna, or second hand comments, such as the market crashing. How much of the truth did Wes state, when it was shunned, or looked down on and he was called a liar? This is just an example.

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Originally Posted by JLC

So fair and equal are only in your eyes, then? Our actions are the hours and hours spent each and every day by every single member of this staff to keep the site up and running as smoothly as possible. Will we occasionally have disagreements with members? Certainly. If you think it's possible to run a site like this, with THIS MANY people participating each and every day...to never have some sort of conflict or disagreement, I'd really, really like for you to share with me how that can be. What's your secret???

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Look at a few other forums, such as CU. Large amount of ACTIVE members. 2 moderators. Nothing such as this going on. Hmmm...obviously those forums are doing something right. Even when something such as a large disagreement goes down, nothing like this happens.

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Originally Posted by JLC

I could ask you the same thing, Andrew. Where is your proof that it is so awfully unfair? All this based on the simple fact that we don't agree with you on a topic or two? :confused:

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So you cannot answer my question? I've given more than one statement as to how it is not fair. Where is yours?

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Originally Posted by Creeptastic

Unbelievable...its almost like he thinks he pays to be here...so the admins/mods should do everything to his liking. This is a free forum!!! No one owes you anything. I have been to a TON of forums with absolutely horrid admins/mods...its great here ( I havnt been here too long, I am stating from my personal experience so far). But really, Compared to other forums, this place is great! Atleast you have the option to debate without an instant ban.

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Oh? I've been to plenty of forums since the reptile forums first started forming such as kingsnakes, and Bob Clarks. I've never seen an instant where you could not debate without being banned. All of those forums allow debates...

From what I've seen, all forums are free ;) Your opinion is your opinion, yet if this is such a great and fair forum, where is the proof of it?

Andrew I think their merit of being fair has to do with how many users they have that sign up and continue to post here, as well as how many people are on at all hours. If they were so very unfair they wouldn't be here and for that matter you wouldn't be either.

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Originally Posted by AaronP

Andrew I think their merit of being fair has to do with how many users they have that sign up and continue to post here, as well as how many people are on at all hours. If they were so very unfair they wouldn't be here and for that matter you wouldn't be either.

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Oh? What about continuing members? How many members have left the forum, or refuse to post? That should reflect the merit of the forum as well ;)

This is me as a MEMBER that has been around for a while. Seems like lately it is very important to reinforce that any staff member is also a member with the right to express their opinion, this time this is not my opinion I am gonna express but I will just ask a few simple questions.

Andrew what I found amazing here is that obviously this is not the first time you complain about this forum or the staff you have done so here, as well as other places, you also made farewell threads numerous times (since I have been a member here)……………………Yet you always come back :confuzd:

This confuses me if you hate it so much here why are you always coming back? Is it because of the free ads? The controversy? The drama?

We know it’s not because it is a great forum that you like, nor is it about the staff or the way this forum is ran, so why is it?

Lol..I guess you havnt been to the forums I have. So many of them, and not all reptile related, where you basically have to walk (type) on eggshells, or its an insta-banned.

And you know what I meant when I stressed that it is free for all of us to participate in. If you think it is such an unfair place, why not just enjoy your time at the other forums if you arent enjoying it here. You know very well that no matter what anyone says or shows you, you wont say it is fair. There is possibly no way to give you solid proof of that anyways. Again..it is another opinionated conversation. What they think is fair, you may not, what you think is fair, they may not. It will never get solved. The beauty about the internet, is that there are TONS of forums out there to enjoy. If you find that you do not enjoy one, pack up and leave it, even for a little while if you have to. I know that is what I do. No use stressing over an internet forum ( been there, done that).

Andrew we try our hardest as human beings to run this site in a manner that allows users to be involved to an non-hostile and educational experiance.

Like it, Hate it, Stay or Leave..these are your choices..We're not forcing anyone to participate if any member feel's like we aren't providing what they are looking for in their online reptile community, As you said there are many more forums out there. I'm sure that everyone in the end finds one they like I know I have.. This one..

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Originally Posted by CeraDigital

Now when another breeder would have given such answer, they would have probably been ripped apart for "lying" or covering up their story, correct?

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How can someone answer assumptions of hypothetical situations? I suppose when you see a kitten crossing the road, you would swerve to try and hit it on purpose, right? Naahhhh...you wouldn't do that, you'd just try and scare it a little...right?

Brian EARNED the respect afforded him and given to him by the vast majority of the herping community. If you can't see that, then I am sorry for you.

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Or perhaps give better practice towards equal treatment. Would that not be definition of fair? "Equal"



What guarantee can you give, other than integrity, to provide a "fair" and "equal" forum? What proof do you have, as has been claimed, that this is a fair, or "fairest" internet forum...

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So, being people of integrity and honesty isn't good enough for you? :confuzd: Not sure what else we can be. Should we LOWER our standards in order to more closely match YOUR idea of "fairness"...to bend the rules for you in the contests...or to unjustly punish someone just because YOU didn't like something they said?

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Oh? Practically making fun of my statement. I do believe that would be bear baiting.

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Again, in your eyes, perhaps. But not in the eyes of the staff. I'm sorry you disagree with that position.

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I had not seen that mistake "corrected". I am not the only individual who had seen that as poking a stick, bear baiting, or making fun. Perhaps you should go and look back on it.

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I didn't say you were the only one.

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As for my fairness? Perhaps you should look at what fairness means, before claiming a fair site.


You preach fairness, yet I have seen other breeders, such as Wes Harris attacked for no reason other than your own justifications. You all were pretty severe on him...please do, tell.... how much do you know of the truth about what went on, other than claims on fauna, or second hand comments, such as the market crashing. How much of the truth did Wes state, when it was shunned, or looked down on and he was called a liar? This is just an example.

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What did Wes Harris do to earn the respect of the community BEFORE serious issues cropped up in his business? The questions put to Wes were done so simply because he had no credibility built up at all. Why should anyone have given him the benefit of the doubt at the time when he had done nothing to earn such a benefit? If that one example is the entire extent of your repertoire of our unfairness, then you're trying to balance on a one-legged tripod.

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Look at a few other forums, such as CU. Large amount of ACTIVE members. 2 moderators. Nothing such as this going on. Hmmm...obviously those forums are doing something right. Even when something such as a large disagreement goes down, nothing like this happens.

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I'm happy for them! Truly! And I'm sure they will be more than blessed to have you make yourself at home over there. :)

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So you cannot answer my question? I've given more than one statement as to how it is not fair. Where is yours?

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I will let our actions stand for us. If we're as unfair as you claim us to be, then our membership will leave for the greener pastures of those "other" forums you like so much. If we drive our membership away due to our own actions, then we will have gotten what we deserve.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Andrew what I found amazing here is that obviously this is not the first time you complain about this forum or the staff you have done so here, as well as other places, you also made farewell threads numerous times (since I have been a member here)……………………Yet you always come back :confuzd:

This confuses me if you hate it so much here why are you always coming back? Is it because of the free ads? The controversy? The drama?

We know it’s not because it is a great forum that you like, nor is it about the staff or the way this forum is ran, so why is it?

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Numerous times? Hmmm, again on fairness. Lets see.... A while back I would get repeatedly attacked by a certain member, yet when a complaint was made about the harassment, a simple answer was given... "He is entitled to his opinion". Pretty much horse poo if you ask me, if another member is being harassed. Wouldn't you say? I had things going on such as re-enlistment, jobs going down I had to work with a 3rd shift, schooling for the apprenticeship etc that would have kept me from posting. That is why I had made the threads.

I come back and RARELY post. The posts I normally make are about camera equipment, or giants. It's about that simple. How many keepers here are fairly knowledgeable on giants? I am mainly contacted by other members to help out with a thread here or there. I don't regular this forum, nor do I care to.

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Originally Posted by JLC

How can someone answer assumptions of hypothetical situations? I suppose when you see a kitten crossing the road, you would swerve to try and hit it on purpose, right? Naahhhh...you wouldn't do that, you'd just try and scare it a little...right?

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Proof could have been posted. It is that simple....

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Originally Posted by JLC

Brian EARNED the respect afforded him and given to him by the vast majority of the herping community. If you can't see that, then I am sorry for you.

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This does not exempt him from questioning... nor does proof. How many times has Jay Vella been bashed here, or elsewhere for his "practices" without even being contacted? Jav is the largest, and most respected Reticulated Python breeder in the world....

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Originally Posted by JLC

What did Wes Harris do to earn the respect of the community BEFORE serious issues cropped up in his business? The questions put to Wes were done so simply because he had no credibility built up at all. Why should anyone have given him the benefit of the doubt at the time when he had done nothing to earn such a benefit? If that one example is the entire extent of your repertoire of our unfairness, then you're trying to balance on a one-legged tripod.

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Tripods have 3 legs, Monopods have one ;) How about producing and proving out morphs? Providing prime, healthy, good looking examples of morphs? Wes had been around longer than you think, and did have quite a bit of respect built up... I guess you cannot answer my question.

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Originally Posted by JLC

I'm happy for them! Truly! And I'm sure they will be more than blessed to have you make yourself at home over there.

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Actually, I've been there longer than I have here. It would be a forum one could call home ;)

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Originally Posted by JLC

I will let our actions stand for us. If we're as unfair as you claim us to be, then our membership will leave for the greener pastures of those "other" forums you like so much. If we drive our membership away due to our own actions, then we will have gotten what we deserve.

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If you let your actions speak, you may want to reconsider...

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Originally Posted by CeraDigital

If you let your actions speak, you may want to reconsider...

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I think I've dignified this with as much time as it deserves...more, really. You have your mind set, and nothing I or anyone else can say will change or sway it.

Every single member of the site can read this and decide for themselves who is being reasonable and who is not. I'm happy for them to come to whatever conclusions they think best for themselves.

I wish you all the best.

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Originally Posted by JLC

THAT was a mistake, and I apologize for it. It is entirely likely that Dale did not realize the thread had been locked. The "reply" button continues to work as normal for staff members, so it is all too easy to respond in a locked thread if they didn't notice it was locked to begin with.

I agree with you 100% that staff members should not post in locked threads in order to argue with someone that can't respond back in the same fashion.

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I did not realize that the thread had been locked. I would not have posted in that thread had I known. I apologize for doing so.

You know Andrew if it was me and I was unhappy on a forum because of the atmosphere, other members, its staff I would leave and never look back.

YOU chose to be here, no one is forcing you to be here no one is forcing you to agree with the way the forum is ran either, at least you have the ability to express yourself about it, which would not always be the case on other forums. :rolleyes:

The thing is that you cannot please everyone (even the President knows that :rolleyes:), you also cannot make everyone get along, that too is impossible, all you can do is try to maintain peace in all fairness and whether you believe it or not the staff here is definitely trying is best doing so.

If you think otherwise than maybe there is a community out there that is more suited to YOUR needs maybe you can even create your own community………………but again no one is forcing you to be a member or post here just like no one is forcing me to be here or post here I an doing so because I want to and because I like this community (if I did not I would not be here).

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Originally Posted by Deborah

You know Andrew if it was me and I was unhappy on a forum because of the atmosphere, other members, its staff I would leave and never look back.

YOU chose to be here, no one is forcing you to be here no one is forcing you to agree with the way the forum is ran either, at least you have the ability to express yourself about it, which would not always be the case on other forums. :rolleyes:

The thing is that you cannot please everyone (even the President knows that :rolleyes:), you also cannot make everyone get along, that too is impossible, all you can do is try to maintain peace in all fairness and whether you believe it or not the staff here is definitely trying is best doing so.

If you think otherwise than maybe there is a community out there that is more suited to YOUR needs maybe you can even create your own community………………but again no one is forcing you to be a member or post here just like no one is forcing me to be here or post here I an doing so because I want to and because I like this community (if I did not I would not be here).

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If someone needs help with their camera equipment, photography choices, etc, I am there to help. Same a long the lines of Rock Python aspects. If I take a shot, I take a shot... but to make outright claims that this forum is fair, especially the "fairest"...is different. It was said to take it to site info if you have a problem....well... here I am.

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Originally Posted by Site Rules and Terms

3. No Hate Speak. This includes, but is not limited to: cursing; threats of violence; racial, religious, or sexual slurs; personal attacks; bear-baiting; and speech intended to cause or further a "flame war" or personal vendetta. This includes vindictive use of the Reputation System. Ultimately, it will be up to the staff (the mods and ultimately the admins) to determine if any given post or thread has crossed these lines.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Whatever happened to the photo session you were so excited about at Brian's btw? His integrity didn't seem to be an issue to you then?

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Originally Posted by rabernet

And you cancelled a photo shoot because of monitors in feeding tubs?:8: :rofl:

Seems you could have seen for yourself instead of joining the speculation bandwagon

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Hmmmm.... seems to be bear baiting.

So, why couldn't these questions have been answered in pm's? Why bring them out publicly? You would probably get quicker answers in pm's. Since, you are notified immediately if you have one.

I am new to this forum, but I know it has been around for a long time. I'm sure if the mods were so unfair it wouldn't be here.

I appreciate all the mods do for us. Look at what happened to Bruce (and if you don't know, you should look it up). This kind of closeness doesn't happen on a lot of forums. This forum is like a family. I can only hope when my children's children get their first herp, this site is here to help them with any/all of their questions.

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Originally Posted by CeraDigital

Oh? What about continuing members? How many members have left the forum, or refuse to post? That should reflect the merit of the forum as well ;)

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Currently Active Users: 117 (63 members and 54 guests) - Time: 6:46PM EST
Total members that have visited the forum today: 530

Looks to me like enough people like the forum enough for it to stay busy fairly regularly. Long standing members come and go for various reasons and at the end of the day there is still a large number of people who are regularly on this forum. I have a universal opinion when it comes to forums:

If you don't like it leave.

This isn't my forum, this isn't my "Home" either but I do spend a fair amount of time on here as well as other forums (Including one you practically destroyed my rep on). If I didn't like those forums I wouldn't visit and post there. That doesn't mean I agree with everyone or everything that goes on but at the end of the day my meaningless moaning and groaning isn't going to fix anything.

Looking at it from your point of view, I would leave BP.net and not come back, if someone "asks you" to post, why not just ask that person to reference you with a e-mail address or something? You don't have to visit this forum to answer someone's questions.

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Originally Posted by AaronP

Currently Active Users: 117 (63 members and 54 guests) - Time: 6:46PM EST
Total members that have visited the forum today: 530

Looks to me like enough people like the forum enough for it to stay busy fairly regularly. Long standing members come and go for various reasons and at the end of the day there is still a large number of people who are regularly on this forum. I have a universal opinion when it comes to forums:

If you don't like it leave.

This isn't my forum, this isn't my "Home" either but I do spend a fair amount of time on here as well as other forums (Including one you practically destroyed my rep on). If I didn't like those forums I wouldn't visit and post there. That doesn't mean I agree with everyone or everything that goes on but at the end of the day my meaningless moaning and groaning isn't going to fix anything.

Looking at it from your point of view, I would leave BP.net and not come back, if someone "asks you" to post, why not just ask that person to reference you with a e-mail address or something? You don't have to visit this forum to answer someone's questions.

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Now look at how many of those members have been here a long time? Where did all those "veterans" go? What happened to some of the new people that registered, and left? That should speak the quality of the forum as well...not just how many users are active. How many users log in, browse, and log off without posting?

I don't answer emails regularly, nor browse most forums. A friend will Call, or IM me...sometimes emails that I hadn't seen for weeks, and reply. That is why I post ;) It's easier for me to simply post the information. I'm typing it up regardless right? Why not simply post myself ;) Your advice was fairly hard to follow for yourself too, eh? Practice what you preach.

I don't see your example as bear baiting. You were asked about a photo shoot you talked about publicly. Maybe you are taking it personally, and reading more intent than was meant?

According to your posts in this thread, it's stating your opinion when it's YOU, but attacking others if it's someone else. It's unfair if you want to continue saying the same thing over and over in a thread that was allowed to go on and on until it simply became repetitive.

You can't insist on a double standard. The thread was allowed, and it finally got down to "He's a good guy, he explained about the big snakes and monitors" or "He's a bad guy becuase he showed big snakes and a monitor in small cages".

You either believe he was fixing the issues, and the tub was a feeding tub, or you believe he was lying. The ones that believe he's a good guy were not being convinced otherwise, and the ones that are convinced he's lying were not being convinced otherwise either. So what more would you want to happen in that thread? It's been up multiple DAYS.

I feel this is one of the best forums as far as friendly discussion. Others might have their high points too, but overall, I prefer this one. I'm sure that you help out here(and elsewhere) with a great deal of very good information about cameras and giants. But if it does make you so unhappy to see any moderation, then perhaps you should bow out, and continue on forums that have less moderation and allow threads to go on for however long that they do?

The end opinion of me is that I do not try to change how a forum is run, and I don't bash the moderators of any forum. If I'm unhappy on any certain forum, at some point I leave, and frequent forums that are run more to my liking. I would hate to think you are making yourself unhappy, just to try to change the moderators of a forum that is successful for most of the members.

Please don't read any of the above with sarcasm. I really do mean it exactly as written.

Man, I am convinced that you are in the same category as trolls. Just trying to start crap. Your signature is proof of that

I don't think she's coming back guys if you read under her picture. It's probably better to let this rest for now. :) Let's get back to picture scooping :)

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Originally Posted by CeraDigital

Now look at how many of those members have been here a long time? Where did all those "veterans" go? What happened to some of the new people that registered, and left? That should speak the quality of the forum as well...not just how many users are active. How many users log in, browse, and log off without posting?

I don't answer emails regularly, nor browse most forums. A friend will Call, or IM me...sometimes emails that I hadn't seen for weeks, and reply. That is why I post ;) It's easier for me to simply post the information. I'm typing it up regardless right? Why not simply post myself ;) Your advice was fairly hard to follow for yourself too, eh? Practice what you preach.

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People register and NEVER post on forums ALL the time, that's just the nature of the internet. Sometimes someone will sign up, ask a question and never post again because the learn to use the "Search" feature. I am friends with a few people who are veterans on this forum who very rarely post but they visit it as frequently as I do.

And for the people who did sign up and leave, they fall into my philosophy or forums, they didn't like it and they left.

And practice what I preach? I don't moan and groan on forums and then leave only to come back and stir up the pot some more. And if you want to bring up what happened on the BLBC, I was banned and later unbanned thus I resumed posting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stratus_020202

I don't think she's coming back guys if you read under her picture. It's probably better to let this rest for now. :) Let's get back to picture scooping :)

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Just for the record, CeraDigital is guy :).

I'd like to set the record straight about something before public or private speculation gets carried away.

Andrew (CeraDigital) was banned due to Infraction points earned. He did NOT earn infractions from this thread (except for two points for cursing). We let him speak his mind in this thread and will leave his words here for anyone to read and make their own minds up about the fairness or unfairness of the staff.

But Andrew was not content with that. He also created a new signature for himself that the staff felt was an intentional effort to undermine our authority and credibility to run this site properly. I sent him a PRIVATE message letting him know that while we will allow a certain amount of public discussion and questions, he had gone too far with that signature and would earn serious infraction points if he chose to leave it up.

He chose to leave it up. He earned the infractions. And continued to leave it up...and earned more infractions. At which point, he suggested that we simply make the ban a permanent one (rather than the 30-day temporary ban 100 points usually earns) and that he would be sure to smear us on some forum review program he is participating on.

That is the end of the story.

This thread isn't locked? WoW!

Banned for speaking his opinion, or so it seems, maybe a little aggressively.

Yeah.

Awesome.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

Banned for speaking his opinion, or so it seems, maybe a little aggressively.

Yeah.

Awesome.

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Really? is that some kind of accusation or simply your lack of comprehension of the previous post made by Judy?. :rolleye2:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

Banned for speaking his opinion, or so it seems, maybe a little aggressively.

Yeah.

Awesome.

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You know Matt you've been around here long enough to know we don't ban people willy nilly for having opinions, disagreeing with staff, etc. We have a lot of members with strong opinions and that's just fine. How they express those opinions and whether the choice they make is contrary to the Terms of Service that they agreed to when they joined, is another matter all together.

Thanks for giving the staff so little credit for making those decisions with the best interest of this whole site in mind. :rolleyes:

Well well, are we not entitled to our own opinion? :rolleyes:

Hehe Irony

You know as much as you didn't like his signature, it was his Opinion.

And he gets Banned for it... his opinion.

Just seems like a "few" people got upset about what someone thought about them... and they pressed the "red button." Sounds kinda childish.. If you don't like someones opinion embrace it and either share yours or walk away.

Don't just make the "bad man" go away.

If someone came screaming they were racist, sexist, or homophobic that would also be an opinion.

However, an opinion can also break the TOS. Just as any phrase, remark, or statement could.

You guys are being rediculous. They already stated that it wasn't all points from this thread, only 2 for cursing (fair enough it seems to me).

Do you even know what the sig said? If not then I would probably check yourself. There are rules here just like everywhere else. If they are not followed, people get banned.

It seems to me you guys have problems letting things go. If you don't like the site, go and make your own.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

Well well, are we not entitled to our own opinion? :rolleyes:

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If your opinion is insulting, rude, or trollish, then no your not entitled to state it. You can keep it in your mind.

I think when people talk about 'opinions' they're just using it as an excuse. You can turn anything you say into an opinion, even if it's the most insulting, rude, and crazy thing you say to someone. All anyone ever says is, "well, it's my opinion".

Gets us nowhere, and neither did this thread. ;)

The sig line was his opinion!!!

Dear jesus

I think you should read Jess's thread again, and then repost.

You don't have a problem with it because it isn't insulting you. If the tables were turned, you would feel different.

I read the whole thing... even his sig was his opinion, but oh no, opinions matter (for the select few).

You're missing the point here Matt. It's not that opinions aren't welcome. If they are insulting it is against TOS. Why is that so hard to understand? Opinions are welcome from everyone, but that doens't mean you should watch what you say.

Why don't you just pm Judy, or any other superior member?

Yeah of course certain opinions-statements can be against the TOS. I agree with that.. And with that I think some people need to go back and reread or rewrite the TOS.

Because trying to simply put yourself out to be the good guy when little smart ass remarks are being made.. You don't really look like the good guy anymore.. Well I guess only in some peoples' eyes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stratus_020202

You don't have a problem with it because it isn't insulting you. If the tables were turned, you would feel different.

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Actually if someone "insults" me in the petty way Andrew supposedly did.. I would walk away. I wouldn't throw a fit because of someones opinion on a forum was different than mine. =/ I mean come on!


I will gladly take my infractions due to language used .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stratus_020202

You're missing the point here Matt. It's not that opinions aren't welcome. If they are insulting it is against TOS. Why is that so hard to understand? Opinions are welcome from everyone, but that doens't mean you should watch what you say.

Why don't you just pm Judy, or any other superior member?

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I did.

In general...


...if you don't like how things are ran here...Leave.

Pretty straight forward.

Ok. Then. How would you put the TOS? Let's get some suggestions. I'm sure the Admins wouldn't mind.

How would you state the rules to keep the site kid friendly, and make everyone feel welcom. It can't be that you can say anything. Maybe we could put up a poll on different rules, and members can vote on them?

We should be able to come to a happy medium. Right?

I don't care what power someone holds.. The TOS should be followed by everyone..

If not, yeah it should be rewrote.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stratus_020202

Ok. Then. How would you put the TOS? Let's get some suggestions. I'm sure the Admins wouldn't mind.

How would you state the rules to keep the site kid friendly, and make everyone feel welcom. It can't be that you can say anything. Maybe we could put up a poll on different rules, and members can vote on them?

We should be able to come to a happy medium. Right?

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Actually, no.

There must be authority in charge. While some would do fine with none some would not and those who wouldn't need the protection of rules and regulations which must be enforced consistently.

It's a shame you newbs don't know my past. I used to hear the mod forums humming when I'd join a site. I know what I'm talking about when I say these mods do a damn fine job at a difficult task.

Things are pretty good here and I don't think any changes are needed.

Maybe a little loosening in the Q room, but even that is no big deal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

In general...


...if you don't like how things are ran here...Leave.

Pretty straight forward.

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I'm going to say this from the neutral zone. There are two sides or more in just about everything. Same here on this site. You have the "stuck up" side and the "ghetto" side. I realize both of these are negative terms, but are the views of the "other" side, if you will. "edit" I'm not trying to start anything here, just showing that a general negative attitude is displayed from both angles. "/edit"

Opinions are opinions, but favoritism just isn't right. If you're going to enforce these rules for "one side", you should do so for the "other side" as well. It is not fair to any members to have to worry about which group they choose to associate with, or how they have to mold their posts as not to anger a group into harassment.

Every one has the right to be treated equally.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ben Biscy

I'm going to say this from the neutral zone. There are two sides or more in just about everything. Same here on this site. You have the "stuck up" side and the "ghetto" side. I realize both of these are negative terms, but are the views of the "other" side, if you will. "edit" I'm not trying to start anything here, just showing that a general negative attitude is displayed from both angles. "/edit"

Opinions are opinions, but favoritism just isn't right. If you're going to enforce these rules for "one side", you should do so for the "other side" as well. It is not fair to any members to have to worry about which group they choose to associate with, or how they have to mold their posts as not to anger a group into harassment.

Every one has the right to be treated equally.

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LOL LOL LOL

Not everyone sees through the same set of blinders you do. It's a common misconception but erroneous nonetheless.