Pop-Eye?

Hello,


Does any one know about or have you heard of a rare eye disease in ball pythons called pop-eye? I am trying to find more information on it, but can't anywhere besides the one sentence in a ball python book I own. Has anyone had any experiences with this so called disease? :confused:

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Originally Posted by Coils

Hello,


Does any one know about or have you heard of a rare eye disease in ball pythons called pop-eye? I am trying to find more information on it, but can't anywhere besides the one sentence in a ball python book I own. Has anyone had any experiences with this so called disease? :confused:

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I have never heard of pop-eye.

I have had animals get blocked lacrimal ducts. This results in fluid build-up in the eye, creating a bulging effect.

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Originally Posted by Coils

Hello,


Does any one know about or have you heard of a rare eye disease in ball pythons called pop-eye? I am trying to find more information on it, but can't anywhere besides the one sentence in a ball python book I own. Has anyone had any experiences with this so called disease? :confused:

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Yes, actually. I don't know anything about it, but I remember someone mentioning it on these forums a long time ago.

Let me see what I can find..

Edit: In fact, I think Tim Bailey has talked about it before if my memory serves me right.. I think his pinstripe had a genetic pop eye. Wow, I could be completely wrong, but that just came to me.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

I have never heard of pop-eye.

I have had animals get blocked lacrimal ducts. This results in fluid build-up in the eye, creating a bulging effect.

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Could you tell me a little more about this? How it is caused and why it happens? What exactly must be done about it...and is it reoccurring?

The nasolacrimal duct drains tears from the spectacle into the oral cavity. It can get blocked by substrate, hair from prey or other small items the snake ingests.

Some animals can be predisposed to infections of this duct. Either way, by infection or by blockage, the tears are unable to drain from the eye into the mouth and the eye begins to bulge.

I've had it occur from a blockage via ingestion in a black-headed python. The snake's eye ended up filling up with clear fluid and bulging. Prior to that, he showed a disinterest in food and was rubbing his face on objects in his enclosure. It was also fairly obvious that he was having issues seeing out of that eye.

The Vet diagnosed it immediately and removed the blockage - fur and a bit of aspen inside of his mouth. This was followed by a spurt of clear fluid and immediately his eye was back to normal.

As a precaution against potential secondary infections, he was put on Gentamyacin antibacterial eye drops for 14 days. He has had no reoccurrence.

May I ask what issues you are having?

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

May I ask what issues you are having?

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My ball python Rin has some rather large eyes. I was looking at old pictures of her when she was a baby(that I haven't looked at since I took them) and have noticed her eyes seem to be a lot bigger than they were then, like -abnormally- big. I was sure she just had slightly large eyes, but it's gotten very odd looking over a period of time.

I also got my second pastel Todd a while ago and then really noticed during comparing them that her eyes were in face a bit larger.

It seems to be BOTH eyes as well and not just an eye so I made a vet appointment for Saturday to check it out. I have thus been trying to find out anything I can about the eyes and what causes them to maybe bulge. This kinda sounds like what might be wrong with -her-. However, she is eating just fine(ate Monday no problem) and acts fine when holding her or in her cage from what I have seen. She doesn't rub her face on anything as if it's bothering her.

I am thinking this might be it though...as there looks to be a bit or clear space before it actually gets to her EYE inside the spectacle! She HAS been a bit jumpier as well and might be having trouble seeing despite it being clear fluid blocking her vision.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

The nasolacrimal duct drains tears from the spectacle into the oral cavity. It can get blocked by substrate, hair from prey or other small items the snake ingests.

Some animals can be predisposed to infections of this duct. Either way, by infection or by blockage, the tears are unable to drain from the eye into the mouth and the eye begins to bulge.

I've had it occur from a blockage via ingestion in a black-headed python. The snake's eye ended up filling up with clear fluid and bulging. Prior to that, he showed a disinterest in food and was rubbing his face on objects in his enclosure. It was also fairly obvious that he was having issues seeing out of that eye.

The Vet diagnosed it immediately and removed the blockage - fur and a bit of aspen inside of his mouth. This was followed by a spurt of clear fluid and immediately his eye was back to normal.

As a precaution against potential secondary infections, he was put on Gentamyacin antibacterial eye drops for 14 days. He has had no reoccurrence.

May I ask what issues you are having?

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Does this sound like what might be happening here? I mean she is going to the vet(only time I could get her in was on saturday) but I am worried/worry until I actually find out.

Got a pic?

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Originally Posted by Coils

Does this sound like what might be happening here? I mean she is going to the vet(only time I could get her in was on saturday) but I am worried/worry until I actually find out.

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I was cued well before the eye enlarged by my snake's jumpy and odd behavior. In retrospect, it should have been obvious he was in some sort of discomfort.

I was told that it's fairly rare that both ducts get clogged at the same time. Most of the infections or blockages are apparently unilateral.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

I was cued well before the eye enlarged by my snake's jumpy and odd behavior. In retrospect, it should have been obvious he was in some sort of discomfort.

I was told that it's fairly rare that both ducts get clogged at the same time. Most of the infections or blockages are apparently unilateral.

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The slightly odd behavior for HER(jumping) hasn't been going on for very long and it is BOTH eyes that seem to be rather large and weird looking, like both the same size, but bigger than what I would think they should be.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Got a pic?

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It's honestly hard to see EXACTLY the large gap there seems to be between the spectacle and eye through pictures, but I will get some and you will see how she compares to my other pastel(a tad younger than her, but normal looking eyes).

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Got a pic?

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Here are pictues taken yesterday, and that is her compared to Todd in the few. Todd obviously has the smaller eyes, but she has the long stripe on her neck to tell them apart further.

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n...ugi90/eyes.jpg

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n...0/100_1056.jpg

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n...0/100_1059.jpg

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n...0/100_1062.jpg

By coincidence we had our six month visit from our herp Vet today. I asked her about bilateral ocular swelling in snakes and she said that if it was indeed abnormal swelling (meaning that the snake didn't have normally "bulging" eyes) that causes could run the gamut from an unidentified systemic disorder to ascending stomatitis (mouth rot) which could have resulted in a secondary infection of both nasolacrimal ducts.

I can't tell from the pictures if that sort of bulging is normal. Hopefully your Vet will be able to diagnose and treat the issue (if it is an issue at all).

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

By coincidence we had our six month visit from our herp Vet today. I asked her about bilateral ocular swelling in snakes and she said that if it was indeed abnormal swelling (meaning that the snake didn't have normally "bulging" eyes) that causes could run the gamut from an unidentified systemic disorder to ascending stomatitis (mouth rot) which could have resulted in a secondary infection of both nasolacrimal ducts.

I can't tell from the pictures if that sort of bulging is normal. Hopefully your Vet will be able to diagnose and treat the issue (if it is an issue at all).

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Thank you very much, but yes, it is hard to say whether or not her eyes are just a bit bigger or if there really is something WRONG with them.(I HOPE NOT!)

Honestly I haven't seen anything in her mouth that would look like signs of mouth rot. She has had those eyes for a bit now but EVERYTIME my snakes eat they usually reconnect their jaws and give me a good view of the mouth and I have yet to see anything that would be bad enough to make both her eyes do that and last for that long without me noticing -some kind- of mouth rot.

Actually if you go to my gallery you can see her mouth, it is a while back, but that is what I am talking about. I get a pretty nice look each time she eats and she IS still eating/ate Monday.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

I can't tell from the pictures if that sort of bulging is normal. Hopefully your Vet will be able to diagnose and treat the issue (if it is an issue at all).

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Well, just to keep you posted and basically tell anyone reading this what is going on...I have been to the vet and back today. Apparently I saw TWO of the three doctors they have there that treat reptiles and not ONE of them could say what was wrong with her today. The vet, named Kryder, actually who I wanted to see, was on vacation and wont be back until Friday. I would have hoped though that SOMEONE there could maybe say what was wrong with my poor girl though.

So anyway, I get stuck with the new girl who doesn't know a DAMNED thing and some other doctor who still wasn't exactly very helpful today. I brought both Rin and Todd in(the two in the pictures posted) so they could clearly see just how his eyes compared to her own. So they also checked both the snakes mouths for any signs of mouth rot, ect.

They checked both because apparently they really DID need to compare -everything-, which I was kind of pissed about since I would assume they should be able to TELL. I was even more upset when they couldn't keep my BABY pastel Todd under control and he ripped away from the prong holding his mouth open rather violently! I wouldn't be surprised if they maybe broke a tooth in his mouth or something and I will SURELY be charging them for anything that may happen with HIM next, since he was perfectly healthy before. (He kept readjusting trying to fix his jaw until we left, though could close his mouth.)

So, it turns out while I was at the vet they just took a picture of the two and e-mailed Dr. Kryder to get his opinion anyway! He sent a message back saying that "Yes, it was obviously a dramatic difference and that HE wanted to see me on Friday." So actually the only thing that really happened in the visit was, I got a weeks worth of baytril I am supposed to give her and just watch her until Friday. Then Todd has his jaws near removed for a check -he- shouldn't have needed.

It really was horrible and now I have to just go back anyway for a more PROFESSIONAL opinion. I am glad I got something for her at least, but I want to know what is wrong and waiting until Friday is going to be a loooong wait indeed.

Sorry to hear that.

Is there another reptile vet in the area that you can see?

Did the other Vets explained why they prescribed Baytril? If they opened your snake's mouth and looked in, they should have been able to see if the ducts were irritated or blocked.

Did they give you any idea what they were attempting to treat her for?

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Sorry to hear that.

Is there another reptile vet in the area that you can see?

Did the other Vets explained why they prescribed Baytril? If they opened your snake's mouth and looked in, they should have been able to see if the ducts were irritated or blocked.

Did they give you any idea what they were attempting to treat her for?

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I am not sure if there is, there might be ONE more at another clinic, but I'm not certain. I know Kryder is good though and -would- like to see him about this. He has taken care of my other snake without a problem and seems to know very much about what he is doing. He prescribed the baytril because he suspected there might be some sort of infection inside(was actually said, possibly something about a cyst/s?, but I am so tired right now and had a long day, it's hard to recall what he said in the message) and wants her on it until he sees her just to see if there is any change at all between then and Friday.

And yes, they looked in both the mouths and supposedly said "nothing was wrong that -they- could see" but had to compare a good mouth to maybe a bad one as I stood there. So I am not exactly sure they even knew what they were looking at. I will be asking Kryder to check that again for me which he probably will himself -anyway- without needing to possibly injure one of my other ball pythons.

And no, as of right now they are not exactly certain what is wrong with her. The two vets I saw today had absolutely NO idea, but Kryder said he couldn't say just looking at the -pictures- and again, needs to see her and wants to when he comes back.

I hope everything works out and goes ok, and thank you so much for your help and comments on the whole thing. I actually printed out what you had typed and brought it in to show them, but only ONE vet actually read it and then, yes, supposedly found nothing wrong with the mouth.

:(

Well, I'm just going to try and ease your mind here. I have a female girl, she is our oldest that I can tell, and her eyes are clearly bigger than most of our other snakes. Much like your photo's. She has been to a vet, not for her eyes, but he is very experienced with snakes and has kept them for decades. He never mentioned a thing about her eyes looking off, so I never put another thought into it.


Also, I have one male that seems to have the same sort of size in comparison, however they both act normal and have never acted in any way to suggest that they were in discomfort.

If they try to prescribe you any more medication, think about getting a second opinion as well with another snakes Vet.

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Originally Posted by Coils

I am not sure if there is, there might be ONE more at another clinic, but I'm not certain. I know Kryder is good though and -would- like to see him about this. He has taken care of my other snake without a problem and seems to know very much about what he is doing. He prescribed the baytril because he suspected there might be some sort of infection inside(was actually said, possibly something about a cyst/s?, but I am so tired right now and had a long day, it's hard to recall what he said in the message) and wants her on it until he sees her just to see if there is any change at all between then and Friday.

And yes, they looked in both the mouths and supposedly said "nothing was wrong that -they- could see" but had to compare a good mouth to maybe a bad one as I stood there. So I am not exactly sure they even knew what they were looking at. I will be asking Kryder to check that again for me which he probably will himself -anyway- without needing to possibly injure one of my other ball pythons.

And no, as of right now they are not exactly certain what is wrong with her. The two vets I saw today had absolutely NO idea, but Kryder said he couldn't say just looking at the -pictures- and again, needs to see her and wants to when he comes back.

I hope everything works out and goes ok, and thank you so much for your help and comments on the whole thing. I actually printed out what you had typed and brought it in to show them, but only ONE vet actually read it and then, yes, supposedly found nothing wrong with the mouth.

:(

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While this Dr. Kryder may the expert, I am always cautious of doctors of any type who prescribe antibiotics for undiagnosed ailments. I'm assuming that the other vets prescribed the Baytril on his recommendation?

Frankly, at this point you're not even sure that there is something wrong with your snake. For all you know that's just the way her eyes are. The fact that she is feeding normally and has no other symptoms to indicate she has impairment or irritation with her eyes should not be forgotten.

If you can get a second opinion, I suggest you go that route.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Well, I'm just going to try and ease your mind here. I have a female girl, she is our oldest that I can tell, and her eyes are clearly bigger than most of our other snakes. Much like your photo's. She has been to a vet, not for her eyes, but he is very experienced with snakes and has kept them for decades. He never mentioned a thing about her eyes looking off, so I never put another thought into it.


Also, I have one male that seems to have the same sort of size in comparison, however they both act normal and have never acted in any way to suggest that they were in discomfort.

If they try to prescribe you any more medication, think about getting a second opinion as well with another snakes Vet.

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Well thank you, and I -at first- thought her eyes maybe were just like that and normal, but for them to SWELL up as she is growing? In the old pictures they really LOOKED like Todd's do now and she didn't have such big eyes even that long ago. Why would they just suddenly get bigger and bigger over time? I makes me think there might be something wrong, but hey if there REALLY isn't that is fine with me too! It's kinda just like they are growing not BECAUSE she is though. *shrug* Actually, my snake Miloh has slightly larger eyes too, but not like how her's are when you can actually SEE and hold her. It just strikes me as very odd.

And yes, I wont be taking anything else or pumping her full of other medication if they don't actually find anything wrong. He gave me just this three days worth of the baytril....(every other day) and I don't think that will do anything negativley to her up until friday. But again, no more after this if they can't say anything is actually -wrong- since, yes, there might not be.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

While this Dr. Kryder may the expert, I am always cautious of doctors of any type who prescribe antibiotics for undiagnosed ailments. I'm assuming that the other vets prescribed the Baytril on his recommendation?

Frankly, at this point you're not even sure that there is something wrong with your snake. For all you know that's just the way her eyes are. The fact that she is feeding normally and has no other symptoms to indicate she has impairment or irritation with her eyes should not be forgotten.

If you can get a second opinion, I suggest you go that route.

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Actually...you know they came in and said we are proscribing the baytril until Friday and I -thought- he might have told them that, but now thinking about it I honestly can't say a 100% who did what. Though, I totally understand and didn't really think of it that way until you just said something....and can understand how that does look a little fishy, but he has been our vet for YYEEEARS. I mean, not just treating snakes, but anything and everything we have had and has always done EVERYTHING right while prescribing what he needs to get them healthy and back on track if something goes wrong. So i do really trust him with ALL my animals if he told them to prescribe the baytril.

Also, I really don't think just three doses of the baytril until Friday will hurt her and she is still doing fine today, but I am not trying to argue with you! I am not going to let them give her -anything- else if they still just don't know what is wrong with her, because there may not be anything wrong at all!

Also I asked my mother and she said that the last thing she knew was the only vets who took any exotic pets or reptiles worked at Kryder(vet clinic name also), Dr. Kryder being one of them and then these new people who I was lucky enough to meet the last time I was there. I could double check and ask around some more, but looks to me that those are the only ones HERE I could talk to on the phone or anything. The other clinics around here are just TINY and usually have very few doctors, so if they don't see exotics -no one- does.

Just in case anyone was wondering, after two week of baytril every other day and not a huge change in her eyes size, she was taken off the medicine a while ago and I am just watching her to see if anything changes(gets worse) now. In conclusion though she DOES have a slightly narrow skull compared to a few other balls and my vet thinks it's just her and not some sort of infection.

So that's good news for me and I hope she is just normal in her own special way. :P

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Originally Posted by Coils

Just in case anyone was wondering, after two week of baytril every other day and not a huge change in her eyes size, she was taken off the medicine a while ago and I am just watching her to see if anything changes(gets worse) now. In conclusion though she DOES have a slightly narrow skull compared to a few other balls and my vet thinks it's just her and not some sort of infection.

So that's good news for me and I hope she is just normal in her own special way. :P

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Glad to hear that you figured it out. It is also great to hear that there isn't anything wrong with her.

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Originally Posted by Wh00h0069

Glad to hear that you figured it out. It is also great to hear that there isn't anything wrong with her.

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Yea I am super happy so far, thanks! I guess it was just me over-worrying, but I'd rather have it checked out than not and then REALLY have something wrong...of -course-!

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Originally Posted by Coils

Yea I am super happy so far, thanks! I guess it was just me over-worrying, but I'd rather have it checked out than not and then REALLY have something wrong...of -course-!

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I agree, it is better to be safe than sorry. It is also great that you posted this experience, because it may be helpful to others later.

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Originally Posted by Wh00h0069

I agree, it is better to be safe than sorry. It is also great that you posted this experience, because it may be helpful to others later.

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Well, thank you again. I will continue to keep an eye on her just in case and post if anything more happens.

Indeed. after 4 years, it was helpful to the owner of 2 ball pythons. Same situations but maybe only in appearances. I don't know if it is because my smaller python has just a narrow skull too or else. It's been many years... what about your snake now? Did it worsened? are they normals now? i need to know. I am really worried about my snake state.

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Originally Posted by Pascal

Indeed. after 4 years, it was helpful to the owner of 2 ball pythons. Same situations but maybe only in appearances. I don't know if it is because my smaller python has just a narrow skull too or else. It's been many years... what about your snake now? Did it worsened? are they normals now? i need to know. I am really worried about my snake state.

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You do realize that the thread is more than 3 years old and that the OP has not posted since 01-20-2012?

Yes I did realize. As I said: the thread was helpful to someone (myself) after 4 years but maybe it is more close to 3. Was supposed to hint to the reply of WhOOhOO69 ''... It is also great that you posted this experience, because it may be helpful to others later.'' Yes its been 3-4 years and I am still hoping for an answer and... are you not interested about the fate of her snake?

I think Deborah was just suggesting that you not get your hopes up for a reply, not that she's uninterested. I mean, we're all pretty much here to continue learning. As a community, we really ought to be acting like one big experience and information think-tank for the betterment of our critters.

You know, who would of thought to even check for a narrow skull in a "pop-eye" snake and that it could lead to neurological disorders. Heck, maybe we should be giving our snakes X-Rays or MRIs to check for health issues. Could get expensive, but we'd probably learn a few things.

Anyway, I do hope that there's a reply. And to the original poster, you might try getting the issue brought up in the reptile report. That's a good way to get a question out there to a lot of folks.

Oh ok, sorry, I misunderstood. I was never quite good to guess the intention of other people. I am ashamed to say I almost saw it as confrontation haha. Well yeah I am really interested to know if there is something pathlogic behind my snake strange traits. I will gladly pay for it if it can help indentify a new trouble and to ease my concerns too. Thank you for you help, both of you... oh... and where should I post the results of my inquiries?

Pascal.. If you have a BP with an issue similar to this one, it might be more helpful to you if you start your own thread. Post some photos and give an explanation of the problem. You're more likely to get a reply that's more fitting for your own issue.