Ringers....your opinion

How much white do you like to see coming from the bottom before you call a ball python a ringer? I've been looking at some pictures and some people call almost anything "ringers" esp when they are for sale. Just wondering what everyone thought personally.

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k1...eese/cupid.jpg
Would you call this a ringer? I would in my opinion...but that doesn't matter much.

I like the hooks :)

I would call that a flame...

Me too, I named the little guy Cupid because he has the coolest heart shapes on his sides near his head as well. I think he is the only animal I have with hooks in the pattern.

If you look to the sides of the white you can see the flames so I didn't think that was a flame.

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Originally Posted by southb

If you look to the sides of the white you can see the flames so I didn't think that was a flame.

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That would be blushing... the flames come up from the belly.

Could be a ringer... but looks like a strong flame to me.

Bruce

OK, now I'm confused. I thought flames were blushing that comes up from the belly. Not white that comes up from the belly. I just double checked the place where I think I first learned this... the hunter's guide to the morphs... and he definitely shows pics of "flames" that are the color of blushing... not white.

So which is it?

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Originally Posted by kc261

OK, now I'm confused. I thought flames were blushing that comes up from the belly. Not white that comes up from the belly. I just double checked the place where I think I first learned this... the hunter's guide to the morphs... and he definitely shows pics of "flames" that are the color of blushing... not white.

So which is it?

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http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=49621

Number 3... in the second pic (green circles). A perfect example of a strong white flame coming up from the belly, very similar to the pic posted by the OP. And it is labelled as, and explained as a flame.

Bruce

What had me wondering about it was because of how freaking high it goes up. It is actually up over half his side.

Either way I like it lol.

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Originally Posted by Bruce Whitehead

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=49621

Number 3... in the second pic (green circles). A perfect example of a strong white flame coming up from the belly, very similar to the pic posted by the OP. And it is labelled as, and explained as a flame.

Bruce

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Thanks for your answer Bruce. If you look at the first pic in Number 3, you'll see the flames I was talking about where they are more of a blushing than a true white. Also in the YB guide, there are lots of the blushing, rather than white flames.
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=45579

So I guess flames can be either the blushing or an actual white marking?

EDIT: After I posted, I realized this might sound like I'm confused in the difference between flames and blushing. I realize blushing is the faded spots on the back and flames are on the sides coming up from the belly. I'm just referring to the color of the flames.

For it to be a ringer, if I remember correctly, the white coming up the side needs to be surrounded by a bright orange, not just a normal white spot coming up. The ringers I have seen have a white place coming up, but it's surrounded by orange, and the pattern is a bit distorted around that area. It seems to me like a ringer is like a small patch of a pied, on a regular ball :P

Thats how I have understood it too... ringers have discoloration (orange) and are somewhat erratic in patterning.

But yeah, a high flame is a great mark for any snake. :)

I have a pastel that has flames in the flames so to speak.

Either way it is a sharp looking snake and a very nice example of an extreme flame.

Bruce

Southb... I knew I had a few pics floating around. Figured I would pull a few up if they help...

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...epastel1-1.jpg

This is one of my hatchlings from this year... you can see the white flames at 9-10 o`clock...

Another male, same sire but different dam with a ringer. The colour was off, but you can still see the orange-ish tint around it and the erratic patterning.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...idsept2008.jpg

Bruce

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Originally Posted by tweets_4611

For it to be a ringer, if I remember correctly, the white coming up the side needs to be surrounded by a bright orange, not just a normal white spot coming up. The ringers I have seen have a white place coming up, but it's surrounded by orange, and the pattern is a bit distorted around that area. It seems to me like a ringer is like a small patch of a pied, on a regular ball :P

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You hit the nail right on the head Shannon. Also when they are close to the vent they are often followed by a spot on each side of the tail. Jeff