het breeding question

hi ive a pair of hets ready for breeding, they are spare snakes that ive no plans for but i was going to put them together.

the male is 100%het albino and the female is 100%het ghost. ive never paired these before and not 100% sure what the outcome would be. can anyone help

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Originally Posted by reptile ni

hi ive a pair of hets ready for breeding, they are spare snakes that ive no plans for but i was going to put them together.

the male is 100%het albino and the female is 100%het ghost. ive never paired these before and not 100% sure what the outcome would be. can anyone help

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Well the offspring would be 50% possible double hets for both genes.

All offspring will be 50% Het Albino 50% Het Ghosts.

That is to say:

Normal
Het Albino
Het Ghost
Het Albino Het Ghost

You will have no indicator which snakes have which traits and only through breeding will you find out which offspring have which traits.

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Well the offspring would be 50% possible double hets for both genes.

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I was going to word it similarly and then I realized it really doesn't make sense. It's only 25% Double Het. While the actual offspring are 50% Possible Het Albino 50% Possible Het Ghost. 50% Double Hets would come from breeding a Het Albino to a Ghost, or a Het Ghost to an Albino.

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Originally Posted by Oxylepy

I was going to word it similarly and then I realized it really doesn't make sense. It's only 25% Double Het. While the actual offspring are 50% Possible Het Albino 50% Possible Het Ghost. 50% Double Hets would come from breeding a Het Albino to a Ghost, or a Het Ghost to an Albino.

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If you breed a morph to a normal you get the 100% hets.So if you bred a visual to a het of something else i think the babies would be 100% hets for the visual gene then possible het(aka 50%) het for the other gene.So i still think the 100% het to a differant 100% het would make possible double hets for both genes.Someone correct me if i am wrong please :P

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Originally Posted by Oxylepy

I was going to word it similarly and then I realized it really doesn't make sense. It's only 25% Double Het. While the actual offspring are 50% Possible Het Albino 50% Possible Het Ghost. 50% Double Hets would come from breeding a Het Albino to a Ghost, or a Het Ghost to an Albino.

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No...

Joe is right.

The outcome from a 100% het Ghost to a 100% het Albino would be ALL 50% possible double hets... All looking normal. If you want to get into the specifics of what the chances for each of the morphs, then you can get messy, but the fact is that the POSSIBLE hets covers the ground of it being a het or not.

If you breed visual X to het Y, then you would get 100% het AND 50% het Y.

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Originally Posted by Oxylepy

All offspring will be 50% Het Albino 50% Het Ghosts.

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See same thing as you said here ;)

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

No...

Joe is right.

The outcome from a 100% het Ghost to a 100% het Albino would be ALL 50% possible double hets... All looking normal. If you want to get into the specifics of what the chances for each of the morphs, then you can get messy, but the fact is that the POSSIBLE hets covers the ground of it being a het or not.

If you breed visual X to het Y, then you would get 100% het AND 50% het Y.

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Thank you Heather :gj:.I may not be 100% on some of the new gene creations in the ball python world but i did have my share of headaches learning the genetic basics :P.

thanks guys i knew about the double het side of things but was just wondering if there was a chance of anything visual as ive never paired to different hets before

thanks ady

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Originally Posted by reptile ni

thanks guys i knew about the double het side of things but was just wondering if there was a chance of anything visual as ive never paired to different hets before

thanks ady

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No chance at all of getting any visual in this pairing ;)

All I was saying is that 50% Possible DOUBLE Hets would insinuate that you had a 50% chance to have a DOUBLE Het snake, which is not the case, it's actually only a 25% chance that you have a DOUBLE Het. It's just a matter of how you phrase it, and 50% Chance of a Double Het seems to insinuate that 50% of the snakes will be (statistically) a Double Het.

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Originally Posted by reptile ni

thanks guys i knew about the double het side of things but was just wondering if there was a chance of anything visual as ive never paired to different hets before

thanks ady

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You should just do it, and then breed the offspring together in a couple years. You may get a Snow, or at least an Axanthic or Albino. Good stuff no matter what.

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Originally Posted by Oxylepy

All I was saying is that 50% Possible DOUBLE Hets would insinuate that you had a 50% chance to have a DOUBLE Het snake, which is not the case, it's actually only a 25% chance that you have a DOUBLE Het. It's just a matter of how you phrase it, and 50% Chance of a Double Het seems to insinuate that 50% of the snakes will be (statistically) a Double Het.

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No ALL of the offspring will be double hets ;).Its not how you phrase it its how the genetics are passed on :gj:

Um, no only 25% of the offspring will be double het. 100% Het x 100% Het = 25% Double Het, 25% Het 1, 25% Het 2, 25% Normal. THAT is how genetics works (adding in percentages).

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Originally Posted by Oxylepy

You should just do it, and then breed the offspring together in a couple years. You may get a Snow, or at least an Axanthic or Albino. Good stuff no matter what.

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Agreed, just do it and then grow those babies up and produce some visuals.

Also, to correct one thing with the quote above, You will not get a Snow or Axanthic.... The pairing is 100% het Albino and 100% het ghost... No Axanthic involved so no possibility of Snow or Axanthic.

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Originally Posted by joepythons

No ALL of the offspring will be double hets ;).Its not how you phrase it its how the genetics are passed on :gj:

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No, not all offspring will be double hets!

All offspring will be both 50% het Albino and 50% het Ghost.

So if the odds play out 25% of the offspring will be true double hets.

You are quibbling with the terminology, and it makes it more confusing for people to understand.

They will all be possible hets. They will all be possibly double hets. How much of a possibility is there? 50% for each trait!

THEREFORE:

50% double hets for X and Y.


Now I understand where you are coming from with the percentages, but you are making it much more complicated with percentages than is necessary, IMO.

Yes, the actual chance for them to be double het is 25%

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

You are quibbling with the terminology, and it makes it more confusing for people to understand.

They will all be possible hets. They will all be possibly double hets. How much of a possibility is there? 50% for each trait!

THEREFORE:

50% double hets for X and Y.

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Good reason to NEVER buy a 50% Possible Double Het, since most people seem more than willing to phrase it in a way that sounds a lot better than it is.

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Originally Posted by Oxylepy

Good reason to NEVER buy a 50% Possible Double Het, since most people seem more than willing to phrase it in a way that sounds a lot better than it is.

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Well...

I don't think that is really the case. If you have a general understanding of genetics, you should know its a crap shoot anyway...

Very true, but the moment someone says DOUBLE Het it signifies a kind of unification between the two traits. A kind of "either both or nothing." 50% Het for A and B would be fine, however the way it has since been presented insinuates a deeper link between the two.

the probability of the combinations of 2 different events is simply to calculate with the product of singular probability of every event.

in that case
het Ghost for a "non het ghost" produce 50% het ghost and 50% "non het ghost"(normal)
het albino for a"non het albino" produce 50% het albino and 50% "non het albino"(normal).

50%(probability to be het ghost) x 50%(probability to be het albino)=>25%(1/2x1/2=1/4=0,25...should be clear) and this is the probability to be a double het(het albino and het ghost)

50%(probability to be het ghost) x 50% (probability to be "non het albino")=>25% het ghost

50%(probability to be "non het ghost") x 50%(probability to be het albino)=>25% het albino

50%(probability to be "non het ghost")x 50%(probability to be "non het albino")=>25% normal.

Actually, I like the probabilities of poss double hets, because of the fact that you have a 75% chance to have a het for SOMETHING! :)

Better than 50% or 66%ers that you find out there...

But that's just me. I like poss hets :)

Well how about we ALL agree that this pairing would be 100% to dang long to prove out ANYTHING :rofl::rofl:.

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Originally Posted by joepythons

No chance at all of getting any visual in this pairing ;)

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Unless of course you had a sneaky het gene already present in your animals.
Just thinking about Mark Mandic and his accidental axanthic pied (first ever).
that guy has horseshoes. seriously.
If one of your animals was already a double het and you bred it to another het of one of those genes, then yeah, you would get a visible.
Chances of that happening??? very very small!!! but still fun to think about lmao.

Personally I'd save the female for next year, let her bulk up so you get more eggs next season, and breed her to a spider het ghost. HoneyBees are wicked!!!

Good luck and Have fun!!
Albie