feed in tank or another tank/tub?

Which one is better? Does it matter?

feed your snake in its tank. There is no reason to move your snake to another tank, it just causes more stress.

I feed all of my ball pythons in their own enclosures. I do not see any reason to stress them out by moving them to another enclosure, or increase my chances getting bit by handling them while they are in feed mode.

i feed in a separate container. but i do because i use cypress mulch as substrate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TMoore

feed your snake in its tank. There is no reason to move your snake to another tank, it just causes more stress.

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Never feed your snake in its enclosure. This will make the snake think that whenever you open the enclosure they will be fed and you do not want your hand to be mistaken for food. Also this will make your snake tame because it will be used to the feeding container and associate going into the separate container with feeding.
If you feed your snake in its enclosure it may end up being agressive anytime you open it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikeySnakey

Never feed your snake in its enclosure. This will make the snake think that whenever you open the enclosure they will be fed and you do not want your hand to be mistaken for food. Also this will make your snake tame because it will be used to the feeding container and associate going into the separate container with feeding.
If you feed your snake in its enclosure it may end up being agressive anytime you open it.

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This is a very common myth. There are no ill effects of feeding your snake in it's enclosure. The only time it would cause the snake to be aggressive is if the *only* time you ever opened the enclosure was to feed it. Say you get the snake out twice a week, and you check it's water once or twice a week. Then you feed it once a week. Only 1 out of 5 times you open the enclosure are you putting food in there. Your snake isn't going to mistake you for food.

There are some people that feed their snakes on a very regular basis, and a snake can get used to that. If you do that then on feeding day each week, the snake is more likely to be aggressive, but from what I understand it can help get a stronger feeding response. And, if you have a set feeding day, you know not to handle your snake on that day, and there are no problems. ^_^

Feeding in the enclosure is the way I do it with no problems so far. Invest in a snake hook, they're handy to have near by. If you have a snake thats a bit aggressive on a non feeding day you can lightly tap the snake on the head once with the snake hook and it will usually snap out of feed mode and will be ok to handle afterwords.

I feed my Ball in his enclosure. I fear that putting him in a different enclosure will stress him out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikeySnakey

Never feed your snake in its enclosure. This will make the snake think that whenever you open the enclosure they will be fed and you do not want your hand to be mistaken for food. Also this will make your snake tame because it will be used to the feeding container and associate going into the separate container with feeding.
If you feed your snake in its enclosure it may end up being agressive anytime you open it.

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Nice to meet you Mikey, Welcome to the site. Think carefully about your reasoning here. When you feed your snake OUTSIDE the enclosure, your hands are STILL present. If you want to go that route, I could contradict with "well then wouldn't you think your snake being removed from his enclosure at all would cause him to go into feeding mode?"

Ball pythons are not stupid, so unless you NEVER put your hands in the enclosure with exception to feed, and your hands smell a great deal like a rodent, you are just fine to feed the snake in the enclosure. You actually stress your snake out a great deal removing it from its recognizable home where it can comfortably hunt and feel secure. You also run the risk of your snake regurgitating when moving it after it has just eaten. Regurgitation is very unhealthy for any reptile, and to risk it occurring for no real reason is just silly.

Some people are set on moving a snake to another area for feeding, and they can do so if they please. But until you have a little more familiarity with different husbandry practices, please don't feel offended if you are corrected.

I feed my snakes in my bathtub...
gives me time to clean the tubs if needed

i fell into the myth of feeding in their enclosures willl make them think everything going into the tub is food, but ive never had a problem feeding in different enclosures, and just putting them in the tub for a second i can already tell if they will eaT OR not......

its all on personal choice

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Originally Posted by missi182

You actually stress your snake out a great deal removing it from its recognizable home where it can comfortably hunt and feel secure. d.

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Do you really think that is a true and honest statement.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by azpythons

its all on personal choice

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Everything to do with animal care is personal choice, but an informed personal choice is essential....thousands of reptiles are killed every year due to "personal choice" which sadly frequently accompanies "ignorance."

And I am not intending to be rude what-so-ever, and I am glad Mikey and the other many many new members are here to learn, even if it is the tiniest helpful tip.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by azpythons

Do you really think that is a true and honest statement.....

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Yes. 100%. Ball pythons hunt in the wild from their natural hiding places, often waiting days for a rodent to scurry by. At that point they strike and are able to eat near or in the security of their 'home'. Ball pythons are finicky eaters as it is, and while I am sure many will eat just fine out of their enclosure, there is really no need for it with exception to owner benefit (what ever reason that may be)

My ball pythons live in a tank and on feeding day I put them in a big tupperware

First because I use aspen as substrate

Second because I give them live prey and the mice always pee or poop before getting eat so if I would give them in the tank it will smell and I`ll have to clean it

I always wait 5 to 10 mins before putting them back in the tank very gently and I never had any probleme and they never refuse a meal

and they never bit me cause i always wash my hand so i dont smell like a mice:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catboulet

My ball pythons live in a tank and on feeding day I put them in a big tupperware

First because I use aspen as substrate

Second because I give them live prey and the mice always pee or poop before getting eat so if I would give them in the tank it will smell and I`ll have to clean it

I always wait 5 to 10 mins before putting them back in the tank very gently and I never had any probleme and they never refuse a meal

and they never bit me cause i always wash my hand so i dont smell like a mice:D

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I could see you not wanting your snake to ingest aspen (which can be avoided by changing substrate which is also mostly aesthetic), but everything else you mentioned is aesthetic. Owner benefit, meaning not having to clean.

Like I said, some people are fine doing this but there is reasoning behind why the majority of members on this site feed in enclosures. I am not going to say that anyone is a bad owner for choosing to feed outside the enclosure, and this subject has been discussed dozens of times on this forum.

In the end, yes it is personal choice, but the reasoning behind the better choice is clear.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by missi182

Yes. 100%. Ball pythons hunt in the wild from their natural hiding places, often waiting days for a rodent to scurry by.

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Might be the only "argument" for feeding in their original tub that actually made me think of tryin to switch next time, see what happens

But having a mouse in their tub, wont that leave a scent behind??
so next time shes hungry and she happens to smell that mouse and you go to hold her...you dont think there might be a higher probability of getting bit??
jus asking....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catboulet

My ball pythons live in a tank and on feeding day I put them in a big tupperware

Second because I give them live prey and the mice always pee or poop before getting eat so if I would give them in the tank it will smell and I`ll have to clean it

I always wait 5 to 10 mins before putting them back in the tank very gently and I never had any probleme and they never refuse a meal

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Never thought of the advantage of not having the live mice/rats going all over the tub....

and yea i usually wait 5-10 minutes also..usually ill wait till the snake starts to roam around, i figure that would be a good time to move em back to the tub real quick, close the lid, and leave em alone till they go doo doo

Heres another recent thread on this topic.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=81095

and another..

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...=feed+seperate

And another

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...=feed+seperate

more

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...=feed+seperate

oh and more

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...=feed+seperate

All of these go in the same direction.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by azpythons

Might be the only "argument" for feeding in their original tub that actually made me think of tryin to switch next time, see what happens

But having a mouse in their tub, wont that leave a scent behind??
so next time shes hungry and she happens to smell that mouse and you go to hold her...you dont think there might be a higher probability of getting bit??
jus asking....

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Not likely. How often to you clean your enclosures? Anyway, not the point, check out any of the threads i posted there and the majority of those with experience agree that in the enclosure is best.

Really, no matter how you look at it, handling your snake while it is in feeding mode, whether before or after, 5 minutes of 5 hours, is best NOT to do. THAT is the best way to get bit, as well as to stress your snake (including regurgitation)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by azpythons

But having a mouse in their tub, wont that leave a scent behind??
so next time shes hungry and she happens to smell that mouse and you go to hold her...you dont think there might be a higher probability of getting bit??
jus asking....

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Depends on your routine, I feed on a Thurs or Friday and then clean Sat or Sun, so the snake doesn't get "hungry" again before their tubs are cleaned. Not to mention that I have had a mouse poop in the snakes enclosure and two days later I'm in there doing my cleaning business with no problem.

Learn your snakes body language and you don't have to worry about the possibility of getting bit for XYZ reasons because you'll be able to read your animal's signals. 4 years here and no bites yet :)

i might jus try to feed em there enclosures next time...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikeySnakey

Never feed your snake in its enclosure. This will make the snake think that whenever you open the enclosure they will be fed and you do not want your hand to be mistaken for food. Also this will make your snake tame because it will be used to the feeding container and associate going into the separate container with feeding.
If you feed your snake in its enclosure it may end up being agressive anytime you open it.

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Mikey,
Thanks for trying to give me some advice, but your completely wrong.

I know Missi already mentioned it, but I'm going to reiterate it.

Your theory is that if you feed a snake in their tank they will then associate their tank and your hand coming in with feeding and bite you when you reach in, right? But if you take them out to feed them, wouldn't they then associate being taken out of their cage with feeding?

Think about it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by missi182

Yes. 100%. Ball pythons hunt in the wild from their natural hiding places, often waiting days for a rodent to scurry by. At that point they strike and are able to eat near or in the security of their 'home'. Ball pythons are finicky eaters as it is, and while I am sure many will eat just fine out of their enclosure, there is really no need for it with exception to owner benefit (what ever reason that may be)

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1 thing I would like to say is our snakes live in captivity for generations, not in the wild. They would most likely just die in the wild… so its really irrelevant in a way in domestic snakes. So if they are used to the feeding container method from an early age they most likely won’t be stressed from getting handled on feeding day, and if they are, at least you can expect the bite on feeding day. But with other method if you snake snaps you for any reason it can happen any day of the week. And there is a difference between handling and just transfer him.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catboulet

1 thing I would like to say is our snakes live in captivity for generations, not in the wild. They would most likely just die in the wild… so its really irrelevant in a way in domestic snakes. So if they are used to the feeding container method from an early age they most likely won’t be stressed from getting handled on feeding day, and if they are, at least you can expect the bite on feeding day. But with other method if you snake snaps you for any reason it can happen any day of the week. And there is a difference between handling and just transfer him.

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another good point

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catboulet

1 thing I would like to say is our snakes live in captivity for generations, not in the wild. They would most likely just die in the wild… so its really irrelevant in a way in domestic snakes. So if they are used to the feeding container method from an early age they most likely won’t be stressed from getting handled on feeding day, and if they are, at least you can expect the bite on feeding day. But with other method if you snake snaps you for any reason it can happen any day of the week. And there is a difference between handling and just transfer him.

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So now we can erase instinct huh? Lions in the zoo eat vegetables and don't hunt either I bet. Thats cool. Read the other threads, I'm tired of explaining what experience has suggested. Do what you would like.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catboulet

1 thing I would like to say is our snakes live in captivity for generations, not in the wild. They would most likely just die in the wild… so its really irrelevant in a way in domestic snakes. So if they are used to the feeding container method from an early age they most likely won’t be stressed from getting handled on feeding day, and if they are, at least you can expect the bite on feeding day. But with other method if you snake snaps you for any reason it can happen any day of the week. And there is a difference between handling and just transfer him.

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Ball pythons are not domesticated, they are still wild animals.

If you're not ready to be bit any day of the week then I don't think snakes are the right animal for you. Getting bit is a possibility on feeding day or not, there have been many people here that have had a docile snake that has bit them out of the blue and uncharacteristically. The bigger picture and whats best for the snake should be the driving factor in husbandry consideration. Not that one way is conclusively better than the other because as mentioned above its all personal choice.

When it comes to me and my choice all I need to do is think about thanksgiving dinner and having someone move me around afterwords at their leisure....No thank you I'll move from this couch when "I'M" ready.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by missi182

So now we can erase instinct huh? Lions in the zoo eat vegetables and don't hunt either I bet. Thats cool. Read the other threads, I'm tired of explaining what experience has suggested. Do what you would like.

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You misunderstood me, i never said their instincts got erased in captivity.. they are just a lot more "domesticated". And most of the zoo lion don't hunt btw..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TMoore

Ball pythons are not domesticated, they are still wild animals.

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so bp in the wild and in your living room got the same attitude?.. you gonna tell me you can approach a wild snake and pick it up and handle it w/o it being aggressive or struck at?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catboulet

You misunderstood me, i never said their instincts got erased in captivity.. they are just a lot more "domesticated". And most of the zoo lion don't hunt btw..

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Go for a stroll through the lions at the zoo of my choice and see how you do.....anyway like I said, read the other threads if you would like further clarification to the matter.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catboulet

so bp in the wild and in your living room got attitude?.. you gonna tell me you can approach a wild snake and pick it up and handle it w/o it being aggressive or struck at?

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Depends on the species, whether that snake has eaten or not, was it night or day time, etc. etc. To many factors to consider...

A ball python I'm going to venture a guess and say that yes you could handle a wild ball python without a problem. That is why they are named ball pythons because they have a disposition to defend (ball up) rather than strike.

Then again I'm just using logic because I've yet to visit Africa to have first hand knowledge of how snakes behave there.

I read enough on it, you don't believe in my reasons why change tub, i don't believe in yours why keep him in his normal one.. so all this arguing is quite pointless actually, because i do believe in 1 thing in the end.. its a matter of personal preference

and being "afraid" of being bit is far from being the point here

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catboulet

so bp in the wild and in your living room got attitude?.. you gonna tell me you can approach a wild snake and pick it up and handle it w/o it being aggressive or struck at?

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BP's that are kept in captivity can be aggressive and bite at times. So what's your point?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catboulet

I read enough on it, you don't believe in my reasons why change tub, i don't believe in yours why keep him in his normal one.. so all this arguing is quite pointless actually, because i do believe in 1 thing in the end.. its a matter of personal preference

and being "afraid" of being bit is far from being the point here

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No...its not. Our point is the health of the snake. But you are entitled to disagree and there is nothing wrong with that, but clearly you don't get our points.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TMoore

BP's that are kept in captivity can be aggressive and bite at times. So what's your point?

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my point? jeez obviously i got trouble making it clear.. YES bp bite in captivity.. but you are talking about exceptions, because they are 1 of the most docile snake.. but if you believe they are as docile in the wild, then IMHO you are wrong~

No ones arguing just two points being debated. I would like the original poster to have the most information about the decision he/she is about to make and do with that information whatever they feel is the best. No one is trying to convince you of anything; we're trying to make sure the poster gets an accurate picture into the choice he is trying to make.

What experience do you have with bps in Africa? Have you been there? Have you owned a WC animal before?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catboulet

my point? jeez obviously i got trouble making it clear.. YES bp bite in captivity.. but you are talking about exceptions, because they are 1 of the most docile snake.. but if you believe they are as docile in the wild, then IMHO you are wrong~

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I guess you've never been on a reptile excursion, there are many many snakes that can be easily picked up and handled without being bit. But that is not MY point (sorry I should not have said OUR) in the end it is health and nature that prevail in this matter IMO.

I can see what your trying to communicate, but through experience and personal knowledge, your points just don't make sense to me. Like I said, there is nothing wrong with that. We can civilly agree to disagree.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spaniard

A ball python I'm going to venture a guess and say that yes you could handle a wild ball python without a problem. That is why they are named ball pythons because they have a disposition to defend (ball up) rather than strike.

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snake in the wild are different from in our houses.. even in what you say, its is not domestic behavior.. my ball pythons don't twirl into a ball when i go get them

You own two snakes, b/c your two don't ball up does not mean that is the universal rule.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catboulet

snake in the wild are different from in our houses.. even in what you say, its is not domestic behavior.. my ball pythons don't twirl into a ball when i go get them

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I could keep going and I have about 3 points in my head to rebut this point but there is no reason to. I believe the OP has their answer and going on about domestication could take weeks.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spaniard

You own two snakes, b/c your two don't ball up does not mean that is the universal rule.

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Just as my snakes behavior is minuscule in the overall inherited knowledge of this site.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by missi182

I guess you've never been on a reptile excursion, there are many many snakes that can be easily picked up and handled without being bit. But that is not MY point (sorry I should not have said OUR) in the end it is health and nature that prevail in this matter IMO.

I can see what your trying to communicate, but through experience and personal knowledge, your points just don't make sense to me. Like I said, there is nothing wrong with that. We can civilly agree to disagree.

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oh ya,reptile excursions where you pickup the snake without being cautious, and put it on your neck because you are as confident as you bp it wont be aggressive

no one see's what i mean so ill just end it here because we obviously wont come to term in our opinions

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catboulet

oh ya,reptile excursions where you pickup the snake without being cautious, and put it on your neck because you are as confident as you bp it wont be aggressive

no one see's what i mean so ill just end it here because we obviously wont come to term in our opinions

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Read the following posts.......

I went to college for natural resources and wild life management, and YES we do go out on scheduled excursions to examine species and record information on different reptiles (yes including snakes!) and I would have to be an idiot to put one around my neck. can we grow up a bit here?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by missi182

Just as my snakes behavior is minuscule in the overall inherited knowledge of this site.

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Exactly! :gj:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catboulet

no one see's what i mean so ill just end it here because we obviously wont come to term in our opinions

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Ive already pointed that out. But you keep going. Go ahead, whatever keeps you happy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catboulet

my point? jeez obviously i got trouble making it clear.. YES bp bite in captivity.. but you are talking about exceptions, because they are 1 of the most docile snake.. but if you believe they are as docile in the wild, then IMHO you are wrong~

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Do I think that balls kept in captivity and handled frequently may be less likely to bite than ones found in the wild, experiencing a human for the first time, yes.

This however does not mean a ball in captivity is domesticated.

They will still bite when they feel threatened or sense food, just like balls in the wild.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TMoore

This however does not mean a ball in captivity is domesticated.

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definition of domesticated

Process of hereditary reorganization of wild animals and plants into forms more accommodating to the interests of people. In its strictest sense, it refers to the initial stage of human mastery of wild animals and plants. The fundamental distinction of domesticated animals and plants from their wild ancestors is that they are created by human labour to meet specific requirements or whims and are adapted to the conditions of continuous care people maintain for them.

if you go find out for yourself (internet) about snakes domestication you will see that they are

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catboulet

definition of domesticated

Process of hereditary reorganization of wild animals and plants into forms more accommodating to the interests of people. In its strictest sense, it refers to the initial stage of human mastery of wild animals and plants. The fundamental distinction of domesticated animals and plants from their wild ancestors is that they are created by human labour to meet specific requirements or whims and are adapted to the conditions of continuous care people maintain for them.

if you go find out for yourself (internet) about snakes domestication you will see that they are

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Definitions without sources are not a great way to support ones views. I know what domestication means but I don't see how its still relevant.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TMoore

This however does not mean a ball in captivity is domesticated.

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http://books.google.ca/books?id=WGDY...esult#PPA57,M1

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catboulet

definition of domesticated

Process of hereditary reorganization of wild animals and plants into forms more accommodating to the interests of people. In its strictest sense, it refers to the initial stage of human mastery of wild animals and plants. The fundamental distinction of domesticated animals and plants from their wild ancestors is that they are created by human labour to meet specific requirements or whims and are adapted to the conditions of continuous care people maintain for them.

if you go find out for yourself (internet) about snakes domestication you will see that they are

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So according to you and the source you cited, ball pythons are domesticated because they are selectively bred in captivity to make new morphs.

So if I were to breed some wolfs in an attempt to get an albino wolf would their offspring be domesticated? According to you, yes.

I however find that an albino wolf is far different from a beagle, which I view as a domesticated animal.