Mystics

So, if the mystic proves out to be another line of phantom, will their prices go up??

I think you might see a temporary increase in prices due to the excitement (and some people trying to cash in), but if history can teach us anything, it won't last.

The production of the super mojave put mojave prices through the roof for about two weeks ... then they came down to lower than before.

I think for a lot of people, the possibility that mystics might be phantoms is already factored in to the price.

Off the top of my head, the only sustained price increase in a ball python mutation was with hypo/ghosts after the caramel glow and honey bee were produced. There could be other less noticeables, but that one stands out in my mind.

Just my $.02 ... but then again, I don't know much.

Good luck to all the mystic owners and supporters!!!! :sweeet:

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I think you might see a temporary increase in prices due to the excitement (and some people trying to cash in), but if history can teach us anything, it won't last.

The production of the super mojave put mojave prices through the roof for about two weeks ... then they came down to lower than before.

I think for a lot of people, the possibility that mystics might be phantoms is already factored in to the price.

Off the top of my head, the only sustained price increase in a ball python mutation was with hypo/ghosts after the caramel glow and honey bee were produced. There could be other less noticeables, but that one stands out in my mind.

Just my $.02 ... but then again, I don't know much.

Good luck to all the mystic owners and supporters!!!! :sweeet:

-adam

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How about the Phantoms then, do you think that their prices will go down? I see ralph has them listed for 10k, and on kingsnake there are mystics for $2500

It's pretty simple really, how many other breeders do you know of selling phantoms? ;)

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

How about the Phantoms then, do you think that their prices will go down? I see ralph has them listed for 10k, and on kingsnake there are mystics for $2500

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I have no idea what's going to happen with the phantoms. I'm really not the right person to ask. So much hard work goes in to these projects that I wish they could hold their value forever.

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I have no idea what's going to happen with the phantoms. I'm really not the right person to ask. So much hard work goes in to these projects that I wish they could hold their value forever.

-adam

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That may be the quote of the year. So many forget how much work is involved.

Buyers set price, not sellers. If people pay what is asked, the price holds, if not it goes down.

I would like to see the market stabilize again here soon, time will tell. Prices are looking better then they were on some and worse for others. If the work involved is factored in, they are not even at cost most of the time.

now thats not totally true...if a seller is the only one with a product then the seller sets the price...i personally think some morphs are WAY underpriced....

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

How about the Phantoms then, do you think that their prices will go down? I see ralph has them listed for 10k, and on kingsnake there are mystics for $2500

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10k?!?!?

I guess I'm further away than I thought from my very own super phantom goblin...

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Originally Posted by Nightmare Creatures

Buyers set price, not sellers. If people pay what is asked, the price holds, if not it goes down.

I would like to see the market stabilize again here soon, time will tell. Prices are looking better then they were on some and worse for others. If the work involved is factored in, they are not even at cost most of the time.

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Not entirely true. Although IMHO that mindset is the reason the market prices continually drop so much. The buyers only set the price if you let them. If everyone wasn't so desperate to make a quick buck and was willing to hold on to their snakes rather than continually trying to undercut the next guy, the market WOULD be stable. Unfortunately, that's not going to happen until all the "get rich quick" people get tired of the game and move on.

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Originally Posted by m00kfu

Not entirely true. Although IMHO that mindset is the reason the market prices continually drop so much. The buyers only set the price if you let them. If everyone wasn't so desperate to make a quick buck and was willing to hold on to their snakes rather than continually trying to undercut the next guy, the market WOULD be stable. Unfortunately, that's not going to happen until all the "get rich quick" people get tired of the game and move on.

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Not to mention (this is my grievance) buyers expect to have the prices lowered the next year. We've gone on so long with dropping prices every year, that buyers just expect prices to drop like they deserve it.

That irks me. When people are in the mindset of "Well, Clowns last year sold for $3500, I should be able to pick one up for $2500, or even less."

Then along comes Joe blow, sells his Clown for $2200, and now the market has to follow because buyers EXPECT everyone else to follow, and it works!

How many excess animals do people have every year that they can't sell them all and MUST drop the price? Or have buyers trained the sellers to drop price because otherwise they are dreaming and no one will buy from them for having "over priced" animals?

How many times have you read someone publicly criticizing an Ad for being over priced and insane if they think they can sell them for that much? People call them rip offs and gripe about it, then they turn around and gripe that they can't sell their animals for as much as they paid 2 year ago. Well waddya know?! You mean you can't sell it for as much as you paid?? Amazing. :rolleyes:

People also seem to forget that breeders are in business to make money and pay the bills just like the rest of us. I've been thinking about buying another snake. I rather a quality snake then something that is bred and shipped out of the door with out some food in them and taken care of. I love seeing these new morphs I might not love all of them there's defently ones out there I'm keeping my eye on.

Just to add to this, seeing as how we're already quite a ways off-topic in this thread... if you think about it, when selective breeding is involved the price should actually go UP each year. Being that each successive year is actually improving the traits of whichever morph you are selectively breeding, that is an improvement. I'm not sure how much NERD charges for their "top of the line" lemon pastels, but I guarantee it's not $150.

Is Phantom a mojave? Looks like one. If not, how do I create a phantom?

If the Mystic proves out to be the same gene as the Phantom, why would someone pay $10K for a Phantom when they could get a Mystic for $2K or so?

It is the same with a YB or Goblin, or Sulfur or Fire. If they make the same Super, two lines are probably going to be similarly priced.

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Originally Posted by EmberBall

If the Mystic proves out to be the same gene as the Phantom, why would someone pay $10K for a Phantom when they could get a Mystic for $2K or so?

It is the same with a YB or Goblin, or Sulfur or Fire. If they make the same Super, two lines are probably going to be similarly priced.

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I think if the Mystic proves to be the same as a Phantom, then the price of Mystics will probably go up some (but not to 10K).

What does this morph look like?

Ok everyone that replied to this thread, let me start off by saying dont talk about prices when you and everyone with a brain will rather buy , lets say bee for $500 then pay $1000 its comon sence, same snake same morph but cheeper.. I have a pretty decent collection but most of us on here are like me , small basement breeders that also like me are not in it for the money.. right so why do you guys charge the prices that big breeders charge. im not trying to be the one that disagrees with everyone but if i can negotiate a price with someone and get it cheeper damn right im gonna do that. and its the buyer that sets the price. but like you guys said about the mystic and phantom, i say that once they become part of the average persons collection then the price will drop, like all other morphs that lost value. but ralph davis askes 10k because he can and not because they are worth that much, im sure ralph wont loose if he sold them for 1k or 2k im sure there lots of work and time that goes into the rearing and breeding of these animals i know, i go through it everyday. but 10k for one snake is crazy but thats what they are worth to ralph and i can respect that... but look at them from the inside out and they are regular normal ball pythons.. ok i know im contridicting myself but ultimitaly the 10k snakes will one day be worth the same as a normal ball python which if you want my opinion the normal wild color of the ball python 100 years from now will be more treasured then an entire collection of morphs... lol so i know im gonna get crusifed by this but i can take it... be gentel:salute:

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Originally Posted by MattZ BallZ

Ok everyone that replied to this thread, let me start off by saying dont talk about prices when you and everyone with a brain will rather buy , lets say bee for $500 then pay $1000 its comon sence, same snake same morph but cheeper.. I have a pretty decent collection but most of us on here are like me , small basement breeders that also like me are not in it for the money.. right so why do you guys charge the prices that big breeders charge. im not trying to be the one that disagrees with everyone but if i can negotiate a price with someone and get it cheeper damn right im gonna do that. and its the buyer that sets the price. but like you guys said about the mystic and phantom, i say that once they become part of the average persons collection then the price will drop, like all other morphs that lost value. but ralph davis askes 10k because he can and not because they are worth that much, im sure ralph wont loose if he sold them for 1k or 2k im sure there lots of work and time that goes into the rearing and breeding of these animals i know, i go through it everyday. but 10k for one snake is crazy but thats what they are worth to ralph and i can respect that... but look at them from the inside out and they are regular normal ball pythons.. ok i know im contridicting myself but ultimitaly the 10k snakes will one day be worth the same as a normal ball python which if you want my opinion the normal wild color of the ball python 100 years from now will be more treasured then an entire collection of morphs... lol so i know im gonna get crusifed by this but i can take it... be gentel:salute:

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As another "basement breeder" (well I havn't succesfully bred anything yet but I intend to) I agree with you. With all the other hobbyists out there it must be a struggle sometimes to get the animals sold. As most hobbyists are not in it for the money, we also need space to keep going, new hatchlings every year takes up alot of space and if we don't get them off our hands we can't keep breeding, and that's what I and alot of other hobbyist wants to do, that's our goal.

However there is another side of the coin, as always. It's the big breeders that set the standard, they are the ones that keep proving out new morphs year after year and with their endless collections and endless creativity they also keep making new totally awesome combos that we hobbyists wouldn't be able to do. Or we would be able to but maybe not want to put in all those years just to see what hatchs out, maybe it's not as wicked as we imagined and we end up disapointed and we feel that all those years are wasted. We need the big breeders to stay alive in the business and they need us to keep buying the next flavour of the month snake, and they know this, it all evens out in the end, maybe not cash wise (I'd be happy if I just break even one day) but out of the joy we get from our reptiles.

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Originally Posted by muddoc

I think if the Mystic proves to be the same as a Phantom, then the price of Mystics will probably go up some (but not to 10K).

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As Adam said, the asking price probably will go up if they prove to be a new line of Phantoms...for a few days. The problem with the way the mystics were marketed is that once the buyers know they have been sold for $2500 or even less they are not going to accept paying a whole lot more than that no matter what the super turns out being. Exactly what happened to the Mojaves. IMO no morph should ever be sold to the public until the super is proven but most people are far too impatient for that.

I also really doubt Phantoms are actually being sold for 10k, but that is just a guess. Asking price and selling price are usually two different things.

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Originally Posted by WizzySRT10

People also seem to forget that breeders are in business to make money and pay the bills just like the rest of us. I've been thinking about buying another snake. I rather a quality snake then something that is bred and shipped out of the door with out some food in them and taken care of. I love seeing these new morphs I might not love all of them there's defently ones out there I'm keeping my eye on.

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Amen to that. I picked up a het. albino female from Adam in December, and I'd much rather pay what I paid than going to some guy at an expo who's just trying to flip a snake or two for cheap. I had this all planned out too. I'd much rather buy from a reputable breeder, spend a little more than most people, and know that my snake is of a higher quality. She's a fat little girl now too. ^_^

I think that the prices will go up but not to 10K, they'll probably meet somewhere inbetween.

Time will tell.

A number of things COULD happen. If the mystics do prove to be another line of phantom, I would imagine they'll all come down in price. I wouldn't bet on any prices going up though.

But what will happen if the Mystics DON'T prove out? What if they're another line of Mojave instead of another line of Phantom? What if they're something in-between? It should be interesting seeing what happens either way.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

But what will happen if the Mystics DON'T prove out?

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That's the million dollar question right there.

Wouldn't the only way to really "prove" that it's another line of Phantoms be to not be able to produce a Super Mystic Phantom or Super Phantom Mystic?

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Originally Posted by Oxylepy

Wouldn't the only way to really "prove" that it's another line of Phantoms be to not be able to produce a Super Mystic Phantom or Super Phantom Mystic?

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More or less.

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Originally Posted by Wild Bill

That's the million dollar question right there.

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Any bets on how big the lynch mob would be? :O:O:O

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Any bets on how big the lynch mob would be? :O:O:O

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Why -- I'd pay $2K to be able to produce what Anthony just did with the Mystic -- irregardless of whether or not it is a Phantom.

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Originally Posted by Tosha_Mc

Why -- I'd pay $2K to be able to produce what Anthony just did with the Mystic -- irregardless of whether or not it is a Phantom.

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Just because he popped something out, he was saying if he didn't.

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Originally Posted by MattZ BallZ

Ok everyone that replied to this thread, let me start off by saying dont talk about prices when you and everyone with a brain will rather buy , lets say bee for $500 then pay $1000 its comon sence, same snake same morph but cheeper.. I have a pretty decent collection but most of us on here are like me , small basement breeders that also like me are not in it for the money.. right so why do you guys charge the prices that big breeders charge.

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Not all of us basement breeders share that mentality. That's the reason there are browned out pastels that barely resemble the morph out there. Slap those cheap males with any ol' normal and crank 'em out as fast as you can. Where's the selective breeding? Between the $500 bee and the $1000 bee, I'm buying the better looking snake of the two regardless of the cost. At the end of the day those snakes cost the same to feed and quality will always be worth more.

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Originally Posted by Shadera

I'm buying the better looking snake of the two regardless of the cost. At the end of the day those snakes cost the same to feed and quality will always be worth more.

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Thats my thought process too. If I notice that the snake looks meh compared to another that looks LE BLAM! (that means really nice) I'm more than likely going to fork out the cash for the LE BLAM! snake. Now, if the cheaper snake turns out to be the LE BLAM! then go me, if not, not big deal.

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Originally Posted by CruelHerbie

LE BLAM!

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I am going to have to start watching out for the LE BLAM snakes. :rofl:

Do it! You'll always either get an odd look or a laugh. :D But you have to say it like you're a wrestling announcer..