multiple snakes in same tank

I have had my bp for a little over 2 years and was wanting to get another. Is it ok to put another in the same tank(55gal)? And also what is so bad about sand, just asking because I have a new beardie and I think it would be easier to use the calci-sand for both.

55gal is pretty big. I would not house them together, however, you can split the tank in half and keep each one on each side. That does require additional heading tho.

Hi,

It is far better to keep one animal per enclosure. There are many reasons for this and a quick look about the site should find them for you - if you can't find any just ask for them to be repeated here.

I would also advise against the sand for a couple of reasons - cleanliness, abbrasiveness on the scales ( they get all scuffed looking I think) and the possibility of impaction if a large amount of it gets swallowed during feeding.

Of all those I would say the cleanliness would be the main one for me - all the liquid p just drains to the bottom of the tank and sits there.


dr del

If you want another snake than you will need to get another enclosure, BP should not be house together.

There is absolutely no benefit in housing multiple snakes together however it can create problems such as stress, going of feed, spreading of diseases and/or parasites, premature breeding, you are also at risk for injuries, and even cannibalism.

Also any new animal MUST be quarantined for at least 60 days (Different enclosure, different room)

Proper substrate should be used for BP and sand is not one of them. You can use aspen, cypress mulch, newspaper, repti-bark etc.

Sand is very bad as a substrate for snakes. Sand gets in their heat pits and mouths.

Also, calcium sand is just about the worst thing you can put down for your beardie( next to crushed walnut shells) id suggest changing him to paper towels/ newspaper/ tile pronto!

I've used calci sand for my adult beardie for a couple years so far with no problems at all. Once they are adults they should be a lot less "clumsy" compared to when they are babies. The only thing you have to worry about is them accidentally eating sand with the crickets but again they arent as clumsy as adults. There is a risk of being impacted if they consume the sand but like I said I have used it for a few years now and its all good. It is a lot easier to clean etc... and looks nicer for a display tank setup vs. ugly newspaper. I'm no expert so use it at your own pets risk and be ready to shell out vet bills if he/she becomes impacted-->which can lead to death BTW!

As for keeping two snakes in one enclosure, I have heard many opinions back and forth about this topic. I just recently bought my first ball and I asked the breeder what he thought about the topic. He said as long as you keep only ONE male you should be perfectly fine as long as they have room, separate hides and fed separately. Again I'm new to balls but he's a breeder and I've seen people who know quite a bit that do the same.

People who say there is absolutely no benefit to keeping more than one snake per enclosure, well there are benefits like less space taken up in your house, less supplies like bulbs, heat pads, water dish, bedding, temp guages, etc... This to me would be a plus if it was actually healthy for the snakes. If it is unhealthy for them and you actually have proof of this or have personally experienced negative results I would be glad to hear the stories you have.

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Originally Posted by KJLegend

I'm no expert so use it at your own pets risk and be ready to shell out vet bills if he/she becomes impacted-->which can lead to death BTW!

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Why not avoid that and go with a safe substrate???

I really have a hard time understanding why people post questions, don't like the answers and say they're going to do it anyway.

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People who say there is absolutely no benefit to keeping more than one snake per enclosure, well there are benefits like less space taken up in your house, less supplies like bulbs, heat pads, water dish, bedding, temp guages, etc... This to me would be a plus if it was actually healthy for the snakes. If it is unhealthy for them and you actually have proof of this or have personally experienced negative results I would be glad to hear the stories you have.

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It's not about a benefit to YOU - it's about a benefit to the snakes - the snakes get NO benefit from it.

For your reading pleasure:
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=23890

I cant comment on housing snakes together from personal experience, But with any reptile, The only benifit is saving space and money, which in that case, I would not say the person should own the animal if they want to take shortcuts. Save space by keeping tubs stacked, or a rack, not endangering or stressing the animal.

But with sand, Heres the deal why Sand, but calci-sand more specifically is bad for all reptiles. Anyone with it, take a little bit, ad a drop or two of water. And tell me what you get. For those that wont do this or dont have calci-sand, It turns to a rock, Its called Cal-crete, and is used in rural africa and other areas as roads, So you are in essense putting cement in the animals body if any is consumed. You wouldnt eat cement, Would you make your pet? Also the calcium draws them to it. It could stick to mice, (and insects for beardie matters), and would probably be messy. A wet/moist snake (comming out of a moist hide, the vent after defication) this could get sand stuck easy.

Anyway, Sand has no place for a ball python IN MY OPINION, along with housing together for non breeding/ short term purposes. But i would not use sand, and also take out the calci-sand in your dragons enclosure, At least replace with childrens playsand which does not clump into cement. \

Ben

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KJLegend

People who say there is absolutely no benefit to keeping more than one snake per enclosure, well there are benefits like less space taken up in your house, less supplies like bulbs, heat pads, water dish, bedding, temp guages, etc... This to me would be a plus if it was actually healthy for the snakes. If it is unhealthy for them and you actually have proof of this or have personally experienced negative results I would be glad to hear the stories you have.

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Well in my opinion if you have to cut corners in order to have numerous reptiles then maybe its not in the reptiles best interests.If you try to go the "cheap" route then in the long run the reptile is the ones who suffer :(.Its simple 1 reptile to 1 enclosure = happy healthy reptiles :gj:

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Originally Posted by Crazydude

I cant comment on housing snakes together from personal experience, But with any reptile, The only benifit is saving space and money, which in that case, I would not say the person should own the animal if they want to take shortcuts. Save space by keeping tubs stacked, or a rack, not endangering or stressing the animal.

But with sand, Heres the deal why Sand, but calci-sand more specifically is bad for all reptiles. Anyone with it, take a little bit, ad a drop or two of water. And tell me what you get. For those that wont do this or dont have calci-sand, It turns to a rock, Its called Cal-crete, and is used in rural africa and other areas as roads, So you are in essense putting cement in the animals body if any is consumed. You wouldnt eat cement, Would you make your pet? Also the calcium draws them to it. It could stick to mice, (and insects for beardie matters), and would probably be messy. A wet/moist snake (comming out of a moist hide, the vent after defication) this could get sand stuck easy.

Anyway, Sand has no place for a ball python IN MY OPINION, along with housing together for non breeding/ short term purposes. But i would not use sand, and also take out the calci-sand in your dragons enclosure, At least replace with childrens playsand which does not clump into cement. \

Ben

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Great info. Thanks for sharing Ben. :gj:

My apologies - it wasn't the OP who said they were going to do it anyway. :oops:

thanks to all. i am just tryin to learn as much as i can before i get another anyways ya cant trust what ya hear at the pet store!

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I really have a hard time understanding why people post questions, don't like the answers and say they're going to do it anyway.



It's not about a benefit to YOU - it's about a benefit to the snakes - the snakes get NO benefit from it.

For your reading pleasure:
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=23890

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This is exactly why I was asking because if you or someone here has a specific experience with bad things happening to the snakes when housed together that is what I was asking about. Therefore my comment about the benefits to 'ME the human' would be worth it unless there is cold hard evidence from people here with personal experience rather than just people saying what they THINK might happen. If you know for sure from your OWN experiences there are negative aspects to having more than one snake then please inform us. Like I said I am new to this and I too am trying to educate myself about this idea among many others. Plus the breeder who I purchased my ball from said there is not a problem with 1.1 pairs in one enclosure, provided enough space etc... I never said anything about doing it anyways I am just asking if anyone here knows for sure.

As for calci-sand in a snakes cage I should have clarrified in my previous post that I only meant I use it for my beardie and I have never had any problems. As for snakes I do not know why you would consider using it for snakes when they do not have sand in their natural habitat. Especially since they cannot control what goes in their mouth when they eat since they do not have hands/legs etc... I just wanted to insert my own experience with MY beardie having no problems with calci sand as an adult.

It really sucks that it seems like whenever I post on this forum people attack what I say even when I say I am just trying to educate myself by asking questions etc... If this continues I do not know if I will post anymore I guess. Sorry if I posted false information but like I have stated I am not an expert on the topics explained.

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Originally Posted by KJLegend

It really sucks that it seems like whenever I post on this forum people attack what I say even when I say I am just trying to educate myself by asking questions etc...

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Props!! this is my first experience with a forum and i have quickly realized that everybody has their own way with dealing with their pets and some are quite defensive about it. i only asked these questions to learn from others experiences before i make any mistakes. the reason i ask about more than one bp in an enclosure is because the place i got my first from had three or four together. As for the calci-sand it was reccomended by petsmart for the beardie and i had no reason to not believe them UNTIL NOW haha. i will make the changes tomorrow and stick with the aspen in the bp tank. i belive (could be wrong) that many use this forum for educational reasons to better the life of their pets not to insult anyone. again thanks for all the good advice!

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Originally Posted by KJLegend

This is exactly why I was asking because if you or someone here has a specific experience with bad things happening to the snakes when housed together that is what I was asking about. Therefore my comment about the benefits to 'ME the human' would be worth it unless there is cold hard evidence from people here with personal experience rather than just people saying what they THINK might happen. If you know for sure from your OWN experiences there are negative aspects to having more than one snake then please inform us. Like I said I am new to this and I too am trying to educate myself about this idea among many others. Plus the breeder who I purchased my ball from said there is not a problem with 1.1 pairs in one enclosure, provided enough space etc... I never said anything about doing it anyways I am just asking if anyone here knows for sure.

As for calci-sand in a snakes cage I should have clarrified in my previous post that I only meant I use it for my beardie and I have never had any problems. As for snakes I do not know why you would consider using it for snakes when they do not have sand in their natural habitat. Especially since they cannot control what goes in their mouth when they eat since they do not have hands/legs etc... I just wanted to insert my own experience with MY beardie having no problems with calci sand as an adult.

It really sucks that it seems like whenever I post on this forum people attack what I say even when I say I am just trying to educate myself by asking questions etc... If this continues I do not know if I will post anymore I guess. Sorry if I posted false information but like I have stated I am not an expert on the topics explained.

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KJLegend, people aren't attacking you. They are giving you advice, albeit some in a more strong tone. Stop being so defensive.

You are telling everyone that there isn't a problem with housing Beardies on Calci-sand, but there is a problem... They can become impacted, which as you stated in your own post, CAN LEAD TO DEATH. The only benefit you stated is that sand isn't ugly for a display tank. For one, that benefit affects you only. Secondly, how does the good outweigh the bad in that situation?

Also, I don't have a personal experience with housing two snakes in one enclosure, but again what are the benefits? (Besides your personal benefits: saving space, costs, etc.) The only thing that will happen is the dominant animal will always have the good hidespot and be able to thermoregulate at the other animal's expense. It's unneeded stress, plain and simple. I'm not sure why you are asking for personal stories and proof, isn't common sense enough?

Here lies the problem: You state that you aren't an expert and that you may be posting false information. Forum lurkers may quickly read over your post and decide that they are going to try your idea. Try absorbing advice before giving it.

you also said that Calci sand is easy to clean, any sand is not. when they poop it soaks up everything, and unless you change out all of it, you are more than likely leaving some in to grow bacteria. Calci sand is also VERY dusty, which will lead to RI.
Impaction does not happen over night, it builds up slowly and then without notice will start putting pressure on your reptiles spine. Your not having any problems now, so are you going to wait until something does happen? Were not trying to be mean, were just trying to help your beardie;)

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Originally Posted by ineedmore

thanks to all. i am just tryin to learn as much as i can before i get another anyways ya cant trust what ya hear at the pet store!

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No you can't trust what most pet stores tell you about the care of pretty much anything they sell. Remember they aren't in the business of keeping animals, they are in the business of moving them out the door (making a sale) as fast as possible and most have corporate offices that set very poor standards of care that good employees struggle under. There are some wonderful stores out there but sadly most of the big chain stores just aren't that great.

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Originally Posted by KJLegend

It really sucks that it seems like whenever I post on this forum people attack what I say even when I say I am just trying to educate myself by asking questions etc... If this continues I do not know if I will post anymore I guess. Sorry if I posted false information but like I have stated I am not an expert on the topics explained.

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KJ, it's always hard to hear something you don't want to hear. That's just us humans being human. It's also hard when all you have is the written word with no cues like body language, tone of voice, etc. to guide you on the full intent of the message.

I'd ask you to look a bit closer at the care and concern expressed for you and the animals you keep and less about the word choice a member might make. I'd also ask our experienced members to always remember that our newcomers may have been given very poor advice, may well have bought the animal on impulse, whatever.....if your good message is lost in a terse tone....the greatest damage won't be to someone's ego...it will be to that animal you are striving to help.

Back to the BP situation... I see no benefit with housing ball pythons together unless it is for a short stint mating.

1. Competition for best perceived spots in the tank.
2. Domination of one snake over the other (AKA, following each other around the tank, snakes curled up together in a pile, etc)
3. Stress from competition and domination can lead to a suppressed or compromised immune system.
4. Stress can lead to illness and most common refusing feed.
5. Pre-mature breeding, leading to possible complications from young mother.
6. Having the possibility of a few eggs hatching, and now having to feed and house hatchlings.
7. Possibility of cannibalism
8. ZERO QUARANTINE, leading to spread of bacteria, disease and parasites (ALL animals should be QT for at least 60 days in a separate room following strict rules)
9. Unless you observe the animals defecating, you will not have a strict idea of which animal defecated and when.
10. If animals are sick, you have no idea who's poo is who's.
11. Your animals are mis sexed, and the males combat
12. BP's are not social animals at all

I could go on if I had time to think about it.

The benefits far out-weigh the risks.

Sand is not advised as a substrate for BP's due to the abrasiveness, limited cleanliness, impaction risk. Better to go with Aspen, coconut fiber, cypress mulch, bark.

It is much easier to buy a tub or reptile enclosure for the second snake appropriate for it's size and the climate control and space limitations are going to be easily achieved.

I have noticed that many of the new members to this site, including myself, go through a "phase" where they feel they are at a point that they would love to give advice and help people, but aren't clear on the general rules of giving advice. I have made this mistake myself and felt "attacked" when really other members were voicing their opinions enthusiastically because something that has been said is indeed very, very wrong.

KJlegend: When you are giving advice to new members, you must assume they know very little, not because they are stupid, but because giving advanced advice to someone who doesn't know the basics is dangerous. They can easily misinterpret what you have said and put their animal in a dangerous situation.

Giving advice on what you 'think' can happen is not always needed. If you are giving an opinion that is not from personal experience, a newbie to bp's or reptiles may not take that into account.

Also, keep an eye on who you are contradicting, not because this is a popularity contest, but because admins and moderators have those titles because they are well learned and respected here, and NEVER give dangerous advice. Many of our bp.net veterans fall into this category as well.

I am still new here myself and I am learning everyday, just like you will. Please don't feel we are mad at you, we in no way are. We just would like to clarify how you should be careful about giving advice.

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Originally Posted by missi182

Also, keep an eye on who you are contradicting, not because this is a popularity contest, but because admins and moderators have those titles because they are well learned and respected here, and NEVER give dangerous advice. Many of our bp.net veterans fall into this category as well.

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Missi, thank you for your post, but I DO want to point out something. Any member is welcome to respectfully disagree with any member of staff just as they are with any other member of this community.

To say that we NEVER give dangerous advice would depend on your point of view. I happen to feed live, as do many of our staff members. I know it to be safe if done correctly, but someone else may not believe this, and may believe this to be dangerous advice. Does that make sense?

Also, just because we are staff doesn't mean that we aren't also human and aren't also learning along with the rest of you.

Yes, staff and bp.net veterans may have more hands on experience than a brand new member (although we also have brand new members with loads of experience as well), but I don't think any one of us would say that we are experts, as hopefully we're all open to learning new things.

However - there are general guidelines that are considered "basic" care for new users, and those we tend to stick pretty hard and fast to (and when someone is asking basic husbandry questions, then we're not going to recommend that they run out and get a huge 55 gallon tank for their baby when they haven't even mastered getting a smaller enclosure to be stable yet), but as a keeper gains more hands on experience, they are encouraged to open their minds and try new things as long as they don't put their animals at risk.

I know I'm rambling, but I hope that makes sense.

Several of the posters on this thread have spoken about dominance of one snake over another if more than one is kept in a single enclosure. They have spoken of one taking the best heat spot and the best hide spot. They have spoken of many of what they say is detrimental but I have one question for all of you who have made such statements.

How do you know?

Have YOU ever kept more than one snake in a cage? Have YOU ever seen one snake "dominate" another when kept in the same cage? Have YOU ever seen one snake not go to the warm spot because another snake was already there?

I believe it was littleindiangirl who said ball pythons were NOT social. Aren't they found in large numbers inside termite mounds and anthills? How could a non-social animal live in such a way?

Where are all the facts you guys are giving out coming from?

And yes, calcisand is BAD.

However, I don't see how sand can be too abrasive for a snakes scales when it is also part of their native habitat. As far as clogging heat pits, have you ever seen it happen? Impaction? Do you have any idea the amount of sand it would take to impact any snake larger than a hatchling?

Again, I am simply looking for sources for the facts that so many seem to be in possession of.

No, ppl are NOT out to get you here BUT there are *clicks*, and you just gotta know who not to talk to trust me :). Real easy just keep you're mouth shut and you're fine just read them attacking some one els like putting a snake in QT is a great idea but did you hear the way she said it? IT MUST BE DONE !! why not just say Putting a snake in QT should be done for less blah blah blah but ok whatever :)
P.S dont bother neg repping me I really dont care.

Well thank you all for the information. I will just sit back and collect all the information before I start to ramble on with my opinion and advice. SOME of the points made have helped me decide I might be best off listening to that instead of going with what is convienient for me, and stick with whats best for my animals. I will delete the advice I gave so that new comers do not skim over what I have said and use my advice when it is incorrect. Again if I offended anyone sorry, and as for the admins I am not trying to downplay your advice/experience because like I said I'm no expert, just trying to help and educate myself.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Missi, thank you for your post, but I DO want to point out something. Any member is welcome to respectfully disagree with any member of staff just as they are with any other member of this community.

To say that we NEVER give dangerous advice would depend on your point of view. I happen to feed live, as do many of our staff members. I know it to be safe if done correctly, but someone else may not believe this, and may believe this to be dangerous advice. Does that make sense?

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Ummm, can I respectfully disagree here?! :P ;)

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Originally Posted by rabernet

However - there are general guidelines that are considered "basic" care for new users, and those we tend to stick pretty hard and fast to (and when someone is asking basic husbandry questions, then we're not going to recommend that they run out and get a huge 55 gallon tank for their baby when they haven't even mastered getting a smaller enclosure to be stable yet), but as a keeper gains more hands on experience, they are encouraged to open their minds and try new things as long as they don't put their animals at risk...

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Hey Robin~ How bout an intermediate section of the forum for an exchange of methods and ideas for the intermediate snake keeper? Just my thought du jour! :gj:

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Originally Posted by Hotshot

No, ppl are NOT out to get you here BUT there are *clicks*, and you just gotta know who not to talk to trust me :). Real easy just keep you're mouth shut and you're fine just read them attacking some one els like putting a snake in QT is a great idea but did you hear the way she said it? IT MUST BE DONE !! why not just say Putting a snake in QT should be done for less blah blah blah but ok whatever :)
P.S dont bother neg repping me I really dont care.

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Good to know your stance on quarantine. Just an fyi, many keepers do take quarantine very seriously, and it's something that must be done IMHO, regardless of if you have 2 snakes or 30,000.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Missi, thank you for your post, but I DO want to point out something. Any member is welcome to respectfully disagree with any member of staff just as they are with any other member of this community.

To say that we NEVER give dangerous advice would depend on your point of view. I happen to feed live, as do many of our staff members. I know it to be safe if done correctly, but someone else may not believe this, and may believe this to be dangerous advice. Does that make sense?

Also, just because we are staff doesn't mean that we aren't also human and aren't also learning along with the rest of you.

Yes, staff and bp.net veterans may have more hands on experience than a brand new member (although we also have brand new members with loads of experience as well), but I don't think any one of us would say that we are experts, as hopefully we're all open to learning new things.

However - there are general guidelines that are considered "basic" care for new users, and those we tend to stick pretty hard and fast to (and when someone is asking basic husbandry questions, then we're not going to recommend that they run out and get a huge 55 gallon tank for their baby when they haven't even mastered getting a smaller enclosure to be stable yet), but as a keeper gains more hands on experience, they are encouraged to open their minds and try new things as long as they don't put their animals at risk.

I know I'm rambling, but I hope that makes sense.

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I appreciate you adding to my comment and pointing out other important information on my post. I guess it is a matter of opinion. I was under the impression that staff give out tested and safe advice, unless stated otherwise. But there is nothing in the site info that says staff will NEVER give out potentially dangerous advice, so I accept that criticism.

For bp.net veterans, I did say some of them fall into this category, but not all. It is true that anyone can have a respectful disagreement with any member, staff or not but I was trying to point out just to be careful about it, not saying that you cannot disagree. I just find if you think and observe before you jump in and speak, discussions go a lot smoother than jumping the gun especially on an admin or moderator without thinking it through. But then again this should apply to anyone a member speaks with.

Once again I do always appreciate when something I have said can be better clarified.
Thanks Robin;)

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Good to know your stance on quarantine. Just an fyi, many keepers do take quarantine very seriously, and it's something that must be done IMHO, regardless of if you have 2 snakes or 30,000.

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No, I just think she over did it a bit. I QT my snakes I think it should be done but the way she comes off saying it just over the top IMO.

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Originally Posted by Hotshot

No, ppl are NOT out to get you here BUT there are *clicks*, and you just gotta know who not to talk to trust me :). Real easy just keep you're mouth shut and you're fine just read them attacking some one els like putting a snake in QT is a great idea but did you hear the way she said it? IT MUST BE DONE !! why not just say Putting a snake in QT should be done for less blah blah blah but ok whatever :)
P.S dont bother neg repping me I really dont care.

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Hey Hotshot~ you're sounding pretty defensive! :O
I have a thought about what you said and your example with the quarantine scenario.... I believe that the answer "It must be done" is a very appropriate one! :gj:
That said, I understand you scratching your head over why the necessity for QT procedure wasn't fully explained. Here's my thought on that: a person receiving this reply has 3 choices. Firstly, he/she can just follow the advice. Second, the poster can ask why. Third, the poster can choose to be an independent learner and use the search bar to check it out. There have been umpteen-million threads on QT and the why's of it- use the search feature!! :D
I disagree with your summation that their are 'clicks' going on; so sophmoric... :weirdface and I believe that the attacking you perceive might be stemming from your own defensive posture.... maybe I'm wrong, but you might want to check that out within yourself. :oops:
I don't know what your comment about negative repping is all about; maybe that is just an irrational response again stemming from your defensive space. :tears: Anyway, I don't even know how to give a negative rep, nor would I ever do so to anybody! We're here to share and learn and be openly joyful for the amazing opportunity to care for snakes! :bow:
It's all good Hotshot.... and you are too!!! :D

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Have YOU ever kept more than one snake in a cage? Have YOU ever seen one snake "dominate" another when kept in the same cage? Have YOU ever seen one snake not go to the warm spot because another snake was already there?

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Does visiting a shady pet store every few days count as experience? Then yes, I have seen a bunch of snakes in one cage, seen smaller snakes, dead on the bottom of a pile of ball python hatchlings kept with larger animals.

I never said that one snake will not go to an area because it's already occupied, but there is definitely some competition going on to get one up on the other snake to absorb the most heat from the lamp.

That's just my experience with multiple snakes in one cage.

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I believe it was littleindiangirl who said ball pythons were NOT social. Aren't they found in large numbers inside termite mounds and anthills? How could a non-social animal live in such a way?

Where are all the facts you guys are giving out coming from?

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Where are your facts?

I know you can question us, that's fine, but then tell us WHY they are all together in that termite mound? Is it overcrowded population? Breeding? Best spot perceived from predators? Best area to find rodents quickly? What time of year was it and were they in a group conserving heat and humidity?

And just so we are clear... a social animal in my mind is an animal that needs companionship from another animal of the same species to thrive and keep it's social order in a group, almost to the point of a society, being interactive with known members.

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Originally Posted by starmom

Hey Hotshot~ you're sounding pretty defensive! :O
I have a thought about what you said and your example with the quarantine scenario.... I believe that the answer "It must be done" is a very appropriate one! :gj:
That said, I understand you scratching your head over why the necessity for QT procedure wasn't fully explained. Here's my thought on that: a person receiving this reply has 3 choices. Firstly, he/she can just follow the advice. Second, the poster can ask why. Third, the poster can choose to be an independent learner and use the search bar to check it out. There have been umpteen-million threads on QT and the why's of it- use the search feature!! :D
I disagree with your summation that their are 'clicks' going on; so sophmoric... :weirdface and I believe that the attacking you perceive might be stemming from your own defensive posture.... maybe I'm wrong, but you might want to check that out within yourself. :oops:
I don't know what your comment about negative repping is all about; maybe that is just an irrational response again stemming from your defensive space. :tears: Anyway, I don't even know how to give a negative rep, nor would I ever do so to anybody! We're here to share and learn and be openly joyful for the amazing opportunity to care for snakes! :bow:
It's all good Hotshot.... and you are too!!! :D

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ok here
QT MUST BE DONE
Why must it be done? if you're going to post, post WHY. so easy :D

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Does visiting a shady pet store every few days count as experience? Then yes, I have seen a bunch of snakes in one cage, seen smaller snakes, dead on the bottom of a pile of ball python hatchlings kept with larger animals.

I never said that one snake will not go to an area because it's already occupied, but there is definitely some competition going on to get one up on the other snake to absorb the most heat from the lamp.

That's just my experience with multiple snakes in one cage.




Where are your facts?

I know you can question us, that's fine, but then tell us WHY they are all together in that termite mound? Is it overcrowded population? Breeding? Best spot perceived from predators? Best area to find rodents quickly? What time of year was it and were they in a group conserving heat and humidity?

And just so we are clear... a social animal in my mind is an animal that needs companionship from another animal of the same species to thrive and keep it's social order in a group, almost to the point of a society, being interactive with known members.

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Go Connie GO! bahahaha ^^^ this is so true!

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Originally Posted by Hotshot

ok here
QT MUST BE DONE
Why must it be done? if you're going to post, post WHY. so easy :D

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Your kidding right?

Quarantine of any animal is to prevent the spread of disease and parasites, and to also observe the animal to ensure that it is 100% free from disease and parasites.

There are some very serious diseases out there afflicting snakes that may not show up for months in certain species that can wipe out entire collections. You should read up on the very serious risks, maybe venture to the BOI once in a while and read the thread about Jen H's snakes. Very sad, very serious.

edit: Did I over use the word serious? I meant every one!

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Your kidding right?...

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Connie, I beleive his questions and suggestions were rhetorical. Hotshot was suggesting that if a response is given, then the responder ought to type something other than what might sound like a command with no reason.... ;)

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Your kidding right?

Quarantine of any animal is to prevent the spread of disease and parasites, and to also observe the animal to ensure that it is 100% free from disease and parasites.

There are some very serious diseases out there afflicting snakes that may not show up for months in certain species that can wipe out entire collections. You should read up on the very serious risks, maybe venture to the BOI once in a while and read the thread about Jen H's snakes. Very sad, very serious.

edit: Did I over use the word serious? I meant every one!

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I already know this FREAKIN OMG you ppl drive me crazy TELL THE NEW MEMBER THAT NOT ME OK? jesus

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IT MUST BE DONE !! why not just say Putting a snake in QT should be done for less blah blah blah but ok whatever :)

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Because should implies, you should do it, it would be best but you don't have to if you don't really want to. With new owners it is VERY important to make them understand that quarantine is a MUST regardless of the source. They need to understand the seriousness of quarantine.

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Real easy just keep you're mouth shut and you're fine just read them attacking some one els

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Also you seems to have a very high opinions of the members here! :confused:

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Originally Posted by starmom

Connie, I beleive his questions and suggestions were rhetorical. Hotshot was suggesting that if a response is given, then the responder ought to type something other than what might sound like a command with no reason.... ;)

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BINGO!

There are tonnes of threads here that explain WHY QT is needed. If you don't want to Hotshot, that is your choice. But that is not a very well informed choice. If you are requesting someone re-post the explanations as to why Im sure many will happily do this. You may even be so lucky that perhaps someone will do a step by step how and why for quarantine that could be sticky material. Any takers?

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Originally Posted by missi182

There are tonnes of threads here that explain WHY QT is needed. If you don't want to Hotshot, that is your choice. But that is not a very well informed choice. If you are requesting someone re-post the explanations as to why Im sure many will happily do this. You may even be so lucky that perhaps someone will do a step by step how and why for quarantine that could be sticky material. Any takers?

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wow read above post please

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Originally Posted by starmom

Connie, I beleive his questions and suggestions were rhetorical. Hotshot was suggesting that if a response is given, then the responder ought to type something other than what might sound like a command with no reason.... ;)

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With his previous responses about Deb's comments on QT,

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No, ppl are NOT out to get you here BUT there are *clicks*, and you just gotta know who not to talk to trust me . Real easy just keep you're mouth shut and you're fine just read them attacking some one els like putting a snake in QT is a great idea but did you hear the way she said it? IT MUST BE DONE !! Why not just say Putting a snake in QT should be done for less blah blah blah but ok whatever
P.S dont bother neg repping me I really dont care.

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I had a hard time distinguishing between a rhetorical question and if he really was asking why it has to be done. No harm posting it again anyways ;)

And I know who I'M not buying from in the future.. :O

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Originally Posted by Hotshot

No, ppl are NOT out to get you here BUT there are *clicks*, and you just gotta know who not to talk to trust me :). Real easy just keep you're mouth shut and you're fine just read them attacking some one els like putting a snake in QT is a great idea but did you hear the way she said it? IT MUST BE DONE !! why not just say Putting a snake in QT should be done for less blah blah blah but ok whatever :)
P.S dont bother neg repping me I really dont care.

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Who and what post are you referring to? :confused:

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Originally Posted by Hotshot

wow read above post please

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Just so you know Hotshot, this isn't a chat box that is update while we are responding... so not everyone reads what's been posted the second after they hit "Post Reply". No need to be hostile about it, I fall victim to slow fingers all the time ;)

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

With his previous responses about Deb's comments on QT,



I had a hard time distinguishing between a rhetorical question and if he really was asking why it has to be done. No harm posting it again anyways ;)

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true! All I'm saying is look a new member joins, ask somequestions you guys answer or say QT is a good idea, ok fine why not tell the new member why it is a good idea?

thats ok with me =]

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Who and what post are you referring to? :confused:

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Mine ;)

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Also any new animal MUST be quarantined for at least 60 days (Different enclosure, different room)

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Originally Posted by Hotshot

wow read above post please

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There was 3 posts added while I was typing...Calm down, it happens all the time.
Thank you littleIndiangirl.

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Originally Posted by missi182

I appreciate you adding to my comment and pointing out other important information on my post. I guess it is a matter of opinion. I was under the impression that staff give out tested and safe advice, unless stated otherwise. But there is nothing in the site info that says staff will NEVER give out potentially dangerous advice, so I accept that criticism.

For bp.net veterans, I did say some of them fall into this category, but not all. It is true that anyone can have a respectful disagreement with any member, staff or not but I was trying to point out just to be careful about it, not saying that you cannot disagree. I just find if you think and observe before you jump in and speak, discussions go a lot smoother than jumping the gun especially on an admin or moderator without thinking it through. But then again this should apply to anyone a member speaks with.

Once again I do always appreciate when something I have said can be better clarified.
Thanks Robin;)

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I think my rambling point really was - no one should feel that they can't disagree with any of the staff members - just because they are staff. Look - Wes already has! ;)

But - I'm also open to hearing other ways of doing things, but do feel strongly that for beginners, we should be consistent and stick to the basics for recommendatiuons until they get the basics down.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Mine ;)

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I give up =] I'm just gonna lurk read dont reply just go around reading and keeping my trap shut. that way I wont piss off the MODS or ADMINS or the members =]!

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Originally Posted by Hotshot

I give up =] I'm just gonna lurk read dont reply just go around reading and keeping my trap shut. that way I wont piss off the MODS or ADMINS or the members =]!

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Thats not the point. You are welcome to your opinion but if it varries from the norm you should expect others to question your opinion. If your not in the mood for it, don't post. You can still help plenty.