Pricing - Ball Python Market

I was wanting to get everyones take on where they think the ball python market is going over the net 5 years. I have my own theory. Its that animals will be priced according to how many genes they have. Single gene animals, regardless of pattern, will be from $25-350, two gene animals will be $350-700, three gene $700-1500, and so on. There will always be that one or two animals that hit the market and are initially very pricey but I think that the prices are starting to level off and should over the next two years or so but that is my take on it. I know that is some thing that has to cross peoples mind that are just starting with a small collection and I am sure is even larger breeders try to predict the market a little. What do you think?

It's all about supply and demand. You're right, combo morphs will be higher priced than single morphs, but there will also be a variance between dominant morphs and recessive. I think that the combo morphs should hold good value due to the odds of 3+ morphs showing up on one snake. Also, I am hoping that with the multiple reptile television projects out there, that hopefully we can raise understanding and demand for these animals as pets.

I think a lot of possibilities exist. Government legislation, hobby breeders, expansion of knowledge of snakes,... To early to make any predictions. Once some morphs reach a certain price level new breeders will not have an interest. Also a lot of current breeders will drop them from their programs thus possibly increasing the price back up slightly. Also as the demand for double and triple morphs increase single morph breeding adults will be shifted to those projects possibly causing a reduction in the availability of single morphs. If larger snakes gain additional national regulation as we have in Florida it could shift a lot of people into a smaller non-regulated species such as the Ball Python creating further demand. If any Government action is taken to ban or regulate the importation of wild caught ball pythons it could cause a shift in the price upwards of captive bred normal ball pythons. This would cause an upward shift in morphs as well. Too much happening and I don't have a crystal ball unfortunately. Hey that might be an interesting project, a crystal ball python! How would you make a ball python clear?:weirdface

Thanks to Exotic's By Nature's photo's from Daytona 2007 and Brian from BHB you can have a crystal ball, look about half way down the page, haha:D

The only safe bet is that rarer balls will be more expensive than common morphs, and more striking morphs and combos will be pricier than less attractive ones. Also, when a new combo is produced that is umusually attractive, it will raise the price of its constituent morphs as well as its own value. Remember what happened to FIRE prices after the "FIREfly" (Pastel FIRE) was unveiled? Also the "Spied" after Roussis reptiles posted the first pics....

ahhh......i think that you under estimate the ball python market. Yes prices will come down but it may be a lot slower than you think. when you consider all the possible combinations and new genetic lines proving out each year (not to mention the ones some breeders won't even release or tell anyone about), select genes will increase value as that gene may be looked into for a new combination of genetics. Dom and Co-Dom genes drop fast but as you can see with pastel, once they hit a certain point it hasn't moved much. And with new people coming into ball python genetics, there will always be demand for these "lower end" genes.

Why sweat the market?.....You should be into Ball Pythons because you LOVE Ball Pythons, and then everything else will fall into place....

The market makes your hobby more affordable. Even if all the snakes you buy cost $1.....there is still food and supplies etc.....

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Originally Posted by monk90222

Why sweat the market?.....You should be into Ball Pythons because you LOVE Ball Pythons, and then everything else will fall into place....

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I think everyone here loves there balls but if you plan on selling them at any point it really does not make any sense not to have some kind of business model / forecast. If you are just a hobbyist and sell them on the side then your comment makes sense. The question was posted as that, a question just to see where peoples heads were at in regards to what was asked.

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Originally Posted by FL0OD

Single gene animals, regardless of pattern, will be from $25-350, two gene animals will be $350-700, three gene $700-1500, and so on.

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You mean to tell me that you think a Caramel Albino Hypo Clown will be $1500 in 5 years. I think not. So many people have put so much stock into the dominant mutations, they all too often remember how the corn snake market as aged in the past 30 years. There are still way too many things to be done with ball pythons to make that kind of prediction.

My opinion only, but we have barely scratched the surface on Double Homozygous Recessives.

Not only that you can't pick a normal baby up at Petco for 25.00 so you will never see any mutation under the normal priceing..At least if your buying from me.

My take on the relationship between the prices of combos and single gene mutations is that the higher prices of the combos encourage buyers to purchase the ingredients to them instead of the combo itself. I don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing. I guess it depends who you ask...a professional breeder or a hobbyist on a budget looking to simply own a beautiful animal.

On one hand it encourages buyers to purchase stock to begin producing snakes themselves, and on the other hand you now have a situation where everyone and their brother are shooting for crosses like, for example, pastels and spiders to create bumblebees...and now you have a flood of animals on the market the drives the price of the single co-doms way down, as we've seen in the past few years. I'm sure other mutations will follow the same course.

Moreover, the fact of the matter is that the buyers that will support the ball market in its maturity phase don't care that it took 1 in 16 odds (it doesn't add any value in their minds) to produce a certain animal, they only care that they themselves aren't willing to spend thousands of dollars for a pet snake. Until then, the combo market will remain a breeder-to-breeder type of thing until the prices of them drop low enough to be obtained by the average hobbyist, at which point they'll stabilize. That point will likely fall in the <$1000 range.

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

My take on the relationship between the prices of combos and single gene mutations is that the higher prices of the combos encourage buyers to purchase the ingredients to them instead of the combo itself. I don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing. I guess it depends who you ask...a professional breeder or a hobbyist on a budget looking to simply own a beautiful animal.

On one hand it encourages buyers to purchase stock to begin producing snakes themselves, and on the other hand you now have a situation where everyone and their brother are shooting for crosses like, for example, pastels and spiders to create bumblebees...and now you have a flood of animals on the market the drives the price of the single co-doms way down, as we've seen in the past few years. I'm sure other mutations will follow the same course.

Moreover, the fact of the matter is that the buyers that will support the ball market in its maturity phase don't care that it took 1 in 16 odds (it doesn't add any value in their minds) to produce a certain animal, they only care that they themselves aren't willing to spend thousands of dollars for a pet snake. Until then, the combo market will remain a breeder-to-breeder type of thing until the prices of them drop low enough to be obtained by the average hobbyist, at which point they'll stabilize. That point will likely fall in the <$1000 range.

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very well said and I totally agree

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

My take on the relationship between the prices of combos and single gene mutations is that the higher prices of the combos encourage buyers to purchase the ingredients to them instead of the combo itself.

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This can only be within reason though. I can very easily justify buying say, a creamsicle (pied x lav albino) instead of producing it, because even if I started with a visual morph of each, it would take a minimum of 2-3 years, to produce one with double-het offspring. Even then, my chances of popping one out on the first try are fairly slim mathematically speaking, and I have to house, feed, and otherwise care for all the offspring during this time.

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

On one hand it encourages buyers to purchase stock to begin producing snakes themselves, and on the other hand you now have a situation where everyone and their brother are shooting for crosses

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Yes, but this is where the business sense comes into the equation. People who are making dominant crosses are obviously looking for short-term gains, and are comparable to day-traders. Those who are planning for the long term will be investing more in recessive genetics, which will hold their prices much better due to supply.

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

Moreover, the fact of the matter is that the buyers that will support the ball market in its maturity phase don't care that it took 1 in 16 odds

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This point I disagree with completely. The 1 in 16, 32, or 2048 odds are exactly what will keep the market up in it's "mature" phase, just like it's kept the price of Ferraris well above their Ford counterparts.

If anything, one only needs to look into the markets for purebreed dogs, cats, horses, or any other animal for which the market would be considered mature to see that rare animals will continue to bring in the big bucks well after the markets drop for the common breeds.

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Originally Posted by muddoc

There are still way too many things to be done with ball pythons to make that kind of prediction.

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It is not a prediction just my thoughts. I also agree with you that we have only scratched the surface of what is to come. That being said as more animals and morphs are produced it will only make todays "it" snake less valuable. Mr. Bailey I respect you for the business person that you are and I was not wanting to argue with anyone over resessive and co-dom pricing. We both know, as others do, that resessive animals hold there value more than co-dom or dominate animals and I should have made myself more clear but I did not have a page to go over all the variables. My comment was just an overall view of what I thought was to come.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Not only that you can't pick a normal baby up at Petco for 25.00 so you will never see any mutation under the normal priceing.

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One thing that I can say with some certainty is that the $100 python at Petco now will not be $100 in five years. In my opinion for this business to grow it will have to enter the retail market at some point. There will have to be more than one morph at the retail level to pull people in to buy the more expensive animals that we are now currently enjoying. That means multiple animals at price points below $150 so that the normal Joe can get in and have some thing more than just a Royal Ball and create a "buzz". Most people I show ball python morphs to have never seen animals like this before nor knew they existed. In that same breath they are not going to go out and spend $500 on a cinnamon because they can make pewters with it. People need to have animals that are "pet" prices. There has to be several entry level animals to get people interested. I took your comment as meaning that normal royal balls will always, in your opinion, be over a certain dollar amount.


Thanks for all the input so far. I thought that it would be interesting to get other views than my own.

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Originally Posted by FL0OD

People need to have animals that are "pet" prices. There has to be several entry level animals to get people interested.

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Before the market can fracture into "breeder" and "pet" prices, we need a method of distinguishing between the two types of animal. I see this coming about in the form of an organization that publishes specifications as to the desirable traits of particular morphs, and then tracks bloodlines through registration and, optionally, competition (al la AKC).

I did not know that, thank you.

Something I didnt see come up... The market prices are dropping because quantities are rising which is simple economics. The one thing people seem to be leaving out is that just bc there are mass quantities of some morphs doesnt mean they are top quality. Those breeders who produce the best looking snakes will be able to keep their prices more level. One breeder might sell a pastel for 300$ and a person looking to buy could say thats a ridiculous price I can get one for 150$. That breeder selling theirs for 300$ could have top notch grade A pastels. Ya you can go ahead and buy the cheaper one but if your trying to sell babies down the road your going to have a much tougher time selling unattractive looking babies. If your just looking for a pet then the 150$ pastel makes sense. Good looking parents make good looking babies... for the most part. I think prices will start(already have) varying based on how good they look. I already see it today where someones selling say mojaves and the price range is 500-700... the OK looking ones are 500 and then the top knotch ones are 700. Still pretty high for a pet but it seems to be heading that way.

agreed. because there are more and more breeders there is a lot more stuff on the market. I recently ran into this when looking for pastels. I saw a female for $200 and then one for $350. I am looking for what I considered the best so I went with the better looking, better quality animal at the higher price point. I believe, like you do, that higher quality animals will always demand more money.

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Originally Posted by ctrlfreq

This can only be within reason though. I can very easily justify buying say, a creamsicle (pied x lav albino) instead of producing it, because even if I started with a visual morph of each, it would take a minimum of 2-3 years, to produce one with double-het offspring. Even then, my chances of popping one out on the first try are fairly slim mathematically speaking, and I have to house, feed, and otherwise care for all the offspring during this time.



Yes, but this is where the business sense comes into the equation. People who are making dominant crosses are obviously looking for short-term gains, and are comparable to day-traders. Those who are planning for the long term will be investing more in recessive genetics, which will hold their prices much better due to supply.



This point I disagree with completely. The 1 in 16, 32, or 2048 odds are exactly what will keep the market up in it's "mature" phase, just like it's kept the price of Ferraris well above their Ford counterparts.

If anything, one only needs to look into the markets for purebreed dogs, cats, horses, or any other animal for which the market would be considered mature to see that rare animals will continue to bring in the big bucks well after the markets drop for the common breeds.

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All of these are valid points, but you are missing one thing: you are looking at this from a breeder's perspective. Not every buyer cares about setting up racks and rodent colonies, etc just to own a morph. They want to put a morph in a display cage in their living room and the whole notion of an animal being worth more because of 1 in 16 odds versus 1 in 8 odds is completely irrelevent. It is the look of the animal and the demand for it that will set the price, not the specific genetics. Look at albinos: one recessive gene, 15 years later it is still above $800 on average.

If this whole notion of a "I breed, sell to you, and you breed" thing could sustain itself, the prices of a lot of the morphs would have stayed the same. They didn't. They dropped. Simple economics tells you that anytime the supply of something increases without a proportionate increase in demand, the price drops.

Talk to "everyday" type people at shows. They are very impressed with ball pythons but can't justify setting up shop in their garage just to own morphs. They've seen the dropping and prices are shrug it off, saying they'll wait until they are within reach. The ball python market is going to be HOT when the combos and such are under $1000....and it should stay there for a while.

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Originally Posted by FL0OD

It is not a prediction just my thoughts. I also agree with you that we have only scratched the surface of what is to come. That being said as more animals and morphs are produced it will only make todays "it" snake less valuable. Mr. Bailey I respect you for the business person that you are and I was not wanting to argue with anyone over resessive and co-dom pricing. We both know, as others do, that resessive animals hold there value more than co-dom or dominate animals and I should have made myself more clear but I did not have a page to go over all the variables. My comment was just an overall view of what I thought was to come.

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No harm no foul. I think this has been one of the mildestly (is that a word) debated market pricing thread that I have ever seen on any board or forum. I always enjoy reading these type of threads but rarely comment myself. I did not mean to sound harsh, if that was how you took, but as you stated, it was unclear that you were talking more on a dominantly inhereted market.

I also would just like to agree with Josh, that this market will steadily drive towards a more selective breeding approach, if you would like to sell "breeders" vs. "pets". Over time buyers hoping to start a breeding project are going to be more discriminating.

What a good thread,

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

All of these are valid points, but you are missing one thing: you are looking at this from a breeder's perspective.

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No, I was speaking from the high-end buyer's perspective. The 1 in 16 odds are relevant, even in the "pet" market, because it means the animals are in shorter supply, and worth more to both those who possess them, and those who want to possess them. Just look at the pet market for pure breed dogs and cats, and it quickly becomes evident that the fewer of a particular animal produced, the harder it is to acquire said animal, and the more it costs. An example of this would be our pet Turkish Van (a piebald cat), who cost us almost a grand. Try getting a pet quality Bengal, or any number of rare dog breeds, and you'll quickly see the pattern.

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

They want to put a morph in a display cage in their living room and the whole notion of an animal being worth more because of 1 in 16 odds versus 1 in 8 odds is completely irrelevent.

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Maybe for your lower to middle class buyers, but for the Land Rover crowd, those odds will be exactly what attracts them to the rare animals over those more readily available, and those who are able to supply them will be able to get what they ask for the animals.

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

It is the look of the animal and the demand for it that will set the price, not the specific genetics. Look at albinos: one recessive gene, 15 years later it is still above $800 on average.

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The specific genetics are what determine the supply though, and supply combined with demand is what sets the price. Albinos are, at this point, in such great supply that the market can bear $800. Pied Albino Clowns (or any 1-in-16+ animal for that matter) on the other hand will never be in great supply, and will most likely be a much more visually appealing animal than the Albinos. As such, it is very unlikely you will ever see the market price of double and triple recessives anywhere near that of the simple recessives.

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

Talk to "everyday" type people at shows. They are very impressed with ball pythons but can't justify setting up shop in their garage just to own morphs.

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The same can be said for any market that has yet to jump the chasm that stands between the early adopters and the general adoption of the product. "Everyday" people are never the initial targets of high end products or services, and once the chasm is crossed, they will still not realistically be the target of the high end (ie. double+ recessive designers) animals for the same reason Ferarris and Land Rovers aren't marketed to Joe Bob Middle-Class.

Right now, the BP industry is in it's early adopter phase, which means there is a lot of room for independent activity on the ground floor, which we're all taking advantage of. Once (if) ball pythons become generally accepted as a "pet" animal, the majority of owners will no longer be in it to breed or produce, but rather just to have an interesting family pet or status symbol.

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Originally Posted by ctrlfreq

Maybe for your lower to middle class buyers, but for the Land Rover crowd, those odds will be exactly what attracts them to the rare animals over those more readily available, and those who are able to supply them will be able to get what they ask for the animals.

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The only problem is that for the most part, the customers that are purchasing Ball Pythons are "lower to middle class". The "Land Rover" crowd still wants teacup Yorkies. I think it will be quite some time until you see Paris Hilton with a creamsicle ball python draped around her neck going into the Gucci store on 5th ave in NYC or the head of a BP sticking out of Britney's purse...

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Originally Posted by ctrlfreq

The specific genetics are what determine the supply though, and supply combined with demand is what sets the price. Albinos are, at this point, in such great supply that the market can bear $800. Pied Albino Clowns (or any 1-in-16+ animal for that matter) on the other hand will never be in great supply, and will most likely be a much more visually appealing animal than the Albinos. As such, it is very unlikely you will ever see the market price of double and triple recessives anywhere near that of the simple recessives.

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I thought that the number of breeding producing them is what determines the supply, though. You seem to be talking about a snapshot of "right now," though. I am thinking further down the road. I personally feel like the brightly colored animals...those that bear bright whites, yellow, orange, etc, will be the most sought after by everyday people. Trust me, I've showed a few layman type people my collection and they were unphased by a granite, but were doing backflips over the albino. You bet that breeders will breed what buyers want, and regardess of genetics, these animals will be produced for sale in one way or another, and as we've seen in recent times, that there will be someone willing to part with it for less than the other guy producing them.

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Originally Posted by ctrlfreq

The same can be said for any market that has yet to jump the chasm that stands between the early adopters and the general adoption of the product. "Everyday" people are never the initial targets of high end products or services, and once the chasm is crossed, they will still not realistically be the target of the high end (ie. double+ recessive designers) animals for the same reason Ferarris and Land Rovers aren't marketed to Joe Bob Middle-Class.

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The only issue I can think of here is that you are assuming that the ball python market will be large enough that you can develop market segments like that...its already such a small niche market and reptiles just aren't sold like that and probably never will be. Web, shows, and exhibitions are the only current avenues for customers to shop and I don't ever see anyone opening some kind of Gucci-like store or show that only contains rare, high-end ball pythons. Often times it is the rare, high end ball pythons that are the drawing force the brings people to a table, but then perhaps they end up buying one of the lower-priced mutations instead.

We'll find out in 5 years from now, nothing is certain, but speculation! :)

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Originally Posted by Sputnik

We'll find out in 5 years from now, nothing is certain, but speculation! :)

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This is about the only way to look at it. Also those getting into it on the business end of the spectrum need to do their own market analisys and make a determination as to what they want/plan to do from that. Different people will look at the variables and risks differently. Those who like the product are more likely to look more favorable on these variables than those who do not. Ralph Davis dropped $22,000 dollars at a show to get into breeding high end pythons almost 10 years ago. I wonder how many people thought he was nuts! If you think you are going to get anywhere in 5-10 years starting out with a $2000.00 dollar investment then you are probably going to be a hobbiest for the rest of your time in it. My wife and I have dropped over 10K this year and will probably be up to 15K before the end of the year and not have sold a thing yet! Probably add another 10K to 15K next year and we may have something (5K or so worth) to sell by the end of that year. My parents think we are crazy for getting into this, but we like our ball pythons and see a lot of future potential in not only high end morphs, but basic and low end morph ball pythons as pets in general. We enjoy it and it is something we talk about together. Our game plan really doesn't call for the business to make us rich, but it does give us the possibility of creating some really cool morphs and having the satisfaction that we did it! Although we would like to get the business to the point that it is self sufficient at some point at least!

Supply and demand.

The supply has increased and prices have come down.

You get a show on snake morphs on Animal Planet or NGC and your demand could take off and prices would follow. The value of ghosts had dropped only to make a strong comeback when the combos became so impressive.

Snakebytes, Reptile Radio and other herp media outlets are trying to do just that. To show these animals to the American people show everybody what we are doing and how amazing they are.

This will play into the mix in the future.


I went to a show years ago to look at beardies and was fascinated by BP's. The more people become aware and desire these animals the more demand there will be. Look at the reptile industry as a whole, it has grown hand over fist in the last 10-20 years. People like Steve Irwin and other animal shows have had alot to do with this along with the growth of the internet. Still the majority of Americans probably wouldn't even consider owning a reptile let alone a snake but show them some albinos, pieds and bumble bees and watch them go WOW, those are cool.

Anything could happen, meanwhile do it because you like snakes not to get rich quick or it will get old fast.

One thing that could certainly shake things up in the future would be genetic studies of ball morphs and the ability to (reasonably) cheaply genotype the animals. No 3 year waits to prove out a possible het, just a quick stool or blood sample to the lab and an answer in a week or two.

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Originally Posted by West Coast Jungle

Anything could happen, meanwhile do it because you like snakes not to get rich quick or it will get old fast.

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That is the best statement in this thread. Many people see the dollar signs in these morphs, but do not realize the incredible amounts of time and money it takes to properly care for these great animals. Cleaning snake poop for the next 30 years is the reality of the ball business.

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Originally Posted by kurgan

One thing that could certainly shake things up in the future would be genetic studies of ball morphs and the ability to (reasonably) cheaply genotype the animals. No 3 year waits to prove out a possible het, just a quick stool or blood sample to the lab and an answer in a week or two.

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That would be cool and all, but I think that would take the fun out of the hobby. I'm sure nothing feels better than proving out a possible het, the old fashioned way!

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Originally Posted by monk90222

That would be cool and all, but I think that would take the fun out of the hobby. I'm sure nothing feels better than proving out a possible het, the old fashioned way!

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I've no experience in snake breeding but FWIW I think I agree, just as I'd rather not know the gender of a baby before it was born.
However at the high end BP morphs are a business as well as a hobby and I can't imagine professional breeders feeling quite the same.

Well, it's five years later. I was reviewing past discussions about pricing and came accross this thread. I am relatively new to the ball python hobby. Does anyone have any thoughts about these posts and predictions, in the current time frame and current market. Thanks.

Well, i read through this old thread, and i must say it was very interesting revisited....idk about everyone else's thoughts, but mine are this:
Most small hobbyist breeders and even newbies to the scene are focusing on double and triple gene co dom and dom animals, because they are affordable. Thus, the prices of single gene animals are going down even further. Instead of purchasing a pastel and a spider, people are just outright getting a bee. (or pewter,or firefly,or butterbee, etc.) I think many of us are headed toward the direction i want to head in. Which is focusing on a small collection of multi-gene animals. The potential is sooo much greater, when you have a "power group" that can produce so many different combos in just one single clutch. Plus, having a smaller collection reduces housing and feeding costs, which is desirable in these economic times. Mix in a few recessive genes with your "power group", and the possibilities are endless! Just my :twocents:

Sent from my H866C using Tapatalk 2

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Originally Posted by 4theSNAKElady

Well, i read through this old thread, and i must say it was very interesting revisited....idk about everyone else's thoughts, but mine are this:
Most small hobbyist breeders and even newbies to the scene are focusing on double and triple gene co dom and dom animals, because they are affordable. Thus, the prices of single gene animals are going down even further. Instead of purchasing a pastel and a spider, people are just outright getting a bee. (or pewter,or firefly,or butterbee, etc.) I think many of us are headed toward the direction i want to head in. Which is focusing on a small collection of multi-gene animals. The potential is sooo much greater, when you have a "power group" that can produce so many different combos in just one single clutch. Plus, having a smaller collection reduces housing and feeding costs, which is desirable in these economic times. Mix in a few recessive genes with your "power group", and the possibilities are endless! Just my :twocents:

Sent from my H866C using Tapatalk 2

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I definitely agree here,

I think if your looking to start up breeding any species for a business you really need to keep it small. Invest as much cash as you reasonably can and keep your numbers down. I think alot of folks get discouraged and end up selling collections because they purchased 20 single gene $50-400 animals and find the work load to be way too much for the return on investment. Another thing is investing in any labor saving device you can (racks, thermostats, etc).

some morphs like pieds have gone down over the years..but ti think the wow and want factor will always keep prices up