Breeders not responding rant

I know it's been brought up before, but I've been trying to buy different snakes in the last week from two different breeders, and they don't respond. The first guy had an ad that I responded to by email. Later that afternoon he was posting more ads, but I guess not checking or responding to email. After 3 days of not getting back to me I called him and found out the animal I wanted was sold the day before. He had another animal that I was interested in until I found this out, that he lowered the price on by $50 in those 3 days. So he lost a $650 sale from me, then lost another sale from me and when he does sell the animal he will still have lost $100 on those two because he dropped the prices before responding to emails. The other breeder won't respond to emails, so I've been calling him and I just get what sounds to be an answering machine with a lady repeating the number. I understand if you are away from a computer for a day or more, or if you have a full time job, but if you are sitting on the internet every day posting ads, why not respond?! And if you're not available during certain hours because you work, get a cell phone or at least a real voicemail message or put something on your website that says so. This has happened to me several times, and it baffles me that I'm basically waving a handful of hundred dollar bills at someone and they just ignore you. People need to get some business sense and customer service skills.

Jake,

This happens when breeders just take for granted or don't care if they build a customer base. It is a shame because you were ready to buy and now you wont even look at their animals. Its this side of things that people that get in to this business tend to over look, when you sale on the net you have to be able to keep up with customers that may be on at every hour of the day.

Sorry you had such a bad experience.

I know what you mean, man. About a month ago, I was shopping around for a certain snake I wanted. Probably emailed 10 different dealers, basically saying I have money and I'm ready to buy something if they had it. Only 3 folks even replied back.

I suppose some breeders are doing so well they can afford to throw away business like that.

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Originally Posted by Ophiuchus

I know what you mean, man. About a month ago, I was shopping around for a certain snake I wanted. Probably emailed 10 different dealers, basically saying I have money and I'm ready to buy something if they had it. Only 3 folks even replied back.

I suppose some breeders are doing so well they can afford to throw away business like that.

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Depends on the size of the breeder.

I just got a response from the second breeder! They were available last night at 7:30, but as of now it looks like a sale is pending. :mad:

i understand about not having a cell phone or looking at your email at least once a day being a bad business practice if your trying to make money and have a good rep.

even though you were so pissed at these breeders i noticed you didnt bad mouth them by name... shows more about your character than it does others

one thing to think about though is that the adds on KS and some others are put there once and paid for to come up a # of times with out doing it your self. so with the new adds you could have just seen some cycling through.

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Originally Posted by NickMyers03

even though you were so pissed at these breeders i noticed you didnt bad mouth them by name... shows more about your character than it does others

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:gj::gj::gj::gj::gj::gj::gj::gj::gj:

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Originally Posted by NickMyers03

i understand about not having a cell phone or looking at your email at least once a day being a bad business practice if your trying to make money and have a good rep.

even though you were so pissed at these breeders i noticed you didnt bad mouth them by name... shows more about your character than it does others

one thing to think about though is that the adds on KS and some others are put there once and paid for to come up a # of times with out doing it your self. so with the new adds you could have just seen some cycling through.

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I wouldn't name drop or bad mouth for that, as they could be top notch breeders. I figure losing my sale makes us even. On the plus side I did some searching and found a better deal on a sweet female YB, and I'm making the payment as I type here. 600g and semi local, so I don't even have to pay shipping! It just shows, if you snooze you lose. New guys should be taking notes.

Edit: Also, the one with the new ads, whether cycled or not, did have a snake available for 2 days while I waited for a reply.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Depends on the size of the breeder.

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Yeah, but that one customer that was ignored may be willing to spend big money. Im not saying I was that customer (the snake I was looking for was rather inexpensive in the big scheme of things), but some people might 'test" a dealer with a smaller purchase to see how things go. Then, later when they wanna spend some real money, they'll come back to that breeder.

But I guess if you're Bob Clark or someone of equal caliber, and someone emails you about a normal ball python, you're probably not gonna bust your butt trying to get back in touch with them.

I know what you mean.

I was looking for a Spider a while ago. I probably emailed about 15 different people from thier King Snake ads. Only about 5 responded. And all but one was sold out.

I also can't stand when you talk to some body about some snakes and they never email you back, but they email you WEEKS later asking to send money to them for a snake. :rage:

I run a few ads on KS. I get stuff sent to my spam file almost everyday. If I wasn't checking it daily I know I'd be missing inquiries.

Maybe that is partially to blame.

One thing i can not stand more is a Breeder who will not respond to you:mad: I emailed one person who had what i wanted and I had the money THEN. I Added that to the email and waited for a reply... and waited... and waited... One month later i got a respond of " Thats cool, Here is my paypal" and so forth:rolleyes:

Although sometimes when breeders do not respond good things happen like a better deal you find later on. Thanks to him not replying sooner i would have never gotten my lesser:banana:

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

One thing i can not stand more is a Breeder who will not respond to you:mad: I emailed one person who had what i wanted and I had the money THEN. I Added that to the email and waited for a reply... and waited... and waited... One month later i got a respond of " Thats cool, Here is my paypal" and so forth:rolleyes:

Although sometimes when breeders do not respond good things happen like a better deal you find later on. Thanks to him not replying sooner i would have never gotten my lesser:banana:

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Yeah, I usually get a response eventually, but they should realize that there are plenty of breeders out there who WILL get back to people in a reasonable amount of time. Luckily because of their lacking service skills I was able to track down and buy a nice big female YB locally for $50 cheaper. I sent the first breeder an email to that effect. Anyway, I made the payment and should be meeting the breeder this weekend to pick her up.

:banana::banana::banana:

I know your pain...I was thinking about buying a nice gravid WC girl a few months ago, had the money ready, and emailed 5-6 people...but got 2 responses; one answered my questions in the first email, and then just stopped responding; the second one never responded. I decided it wasn't worth it and didn't make a purchase.

I just do not understand why breeders would not reply. Ralph Davis has the time to reply to me either the same day or early next, yet much smaller breeders take three days to reply every time with small answers:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

I just do not understand why breeders would not reply. Ralph Davis has the time to reply to me either the same day or early next, yet much smaller breeders take three days to reply every time with small answers:rolleyes:

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That tells you something right there. It's not a fluke that the big guys are the big guys. It gives me hope that I might one day be a reputable breeder. I've been worried that the market seems so flooded with balls that it might be hard to make sales and build a reputation. Today I learned two things; ball pythons move pretty quickly if the price is right, even for small time breeders, and good customer service, both before and after a sale, will sell snakes 10x quicker than the next guy. If you respond quickly, you get the sale. Once you get the sale and I see that you have good customer service, I'll always give you a call before I think about giving my money to someone else on my next purchase.

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Originally Posted by Ophiuchus

But I guess if you're Bob Clark or someone of equal caliber, and someone emails you about a normal ball python, you're probably not gonna bust your butt trying to get back in touch with them.

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Actually, I e-mailed Bob Clark two years ago when I was looking to buy my very first ball python, a normal male. He replied, answered all my questions very patiently, and came in on Sunday (while in the middle of trying to get his daughter off to college), opened up the shop and showed me around and let me hold an albino. All for one little normal male. :-)

I know you were probably just using him as a generic example, but I couldn't let that one go by! :-)

I am a big believer that every thing happens for a reason. Every time I have had some thing like what you mentioned happen some thing else has always popped up that was better. I think the main thing to look at is a lot of these people that are breeders are just that, breeders. They do not have a sense of what it means to run a business. In there minds they may want to sell there animals but it takes more than just posting some pictures on a website and waiting for results. When I was at NARBC over the weekend I was really surprised at the lack of interaction by a lot of the breeders. Just because you have a $10,000 animal does not mean that some one is just going to give you the money because you have a unique animal. I think long term that is where you are going to see the business breeders succeed and the breeders fail. If you cannot SELL your animals you just have a zoo collection. Thats just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by slartibartfast

Actually, I e-mailed Bob Clark two years ago when I was looking to buy my very first ball python, a normal male. He replied, answered all my questions very patiently, and came in on Sunday (while in the middle of trying to get his daughter off to college), opened up the shop and showed me around and let me hold an albino. All for one little normal male. :-)

I know you were probably just using him as a generic example, but I couldn't let that one go by! :-)

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He cared more about the $ then his Daughter? Nice!:(

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Originally Posted by FL0OD

I am a big believer that every thing happens for a reason. Every time I have had some thing like what you mentioned happen some thing else has always popped up that was better. I think the main thing to look at is a lot of these people that are breeders are just that, breeders. They do not have a sense of what it means to run a business. In there minds they may want to sell there animals but it takes more than just posting some pictures on a website and waiting for results. When I was at NARBC over the weekend I was really surprised at the lack of interaction by a lot of the breeders. Just because you have a $10,000 animal does not mean that some one is just going to give you the money because you have a unique animal. I think long term that is where you are going to see the business breeders succeed and the breeders fail. If you cannot SELL your animals you just have a zoo collection. Thats just my opinion.

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Yeah, a lot of breeders with tables at shows surprise me too. They'll sit there talking to a buddy forever while you stand there and and stare at them, or even worse not even be at their own table. There have been a ton of people who have lost my business at shows because they won't take a minute of their time to take the wad of cash from my hand. Why even bother paying for a table and making the drive? On the other hand there are people like John Piro and Tim and Monica Bailey who have the common sense to get the job done. Last year at NARBC Tinley I went both days, and I had good conversations both days with them. I was looking for a nice normal female and almost everyone at the show had some, but John took the time to talk to me about his business, his snakes, and just shoot the breeze. Hell, we talked about Chicago vs. New York pizza and how steaks ordered medium in Chicago come bloody, for about 10 minutes. But when other people walked up he asked me to hold on while he took care of them which is exactly what everyone with a table sould be doing. Same thing with the Baileys. Unfortuneately I didn't have any money to buy anything from them, but because of that weekend I constantly look at B&B's website and I plan to do business with them as soon as they have something I need.

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

He cared more about the $ then his Daughter? Nice!:(

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LMAO. I can see it now. "Honey, college can wait, the king has to go make a $50 spot right quick".

One thing also, be aware of how you type out that first email.
The very few times I've advertised anything, I invariably get some emails that sound like this...
"U have 1 i cud get?"
And that's it. I'm not saying that YOUR email read like that. But just wanted to point out that those emails pop up too. I've gotten long rambled stuff that I couldn't understand, and when I reply with a "Could you clarify your email please?" I get a bunch of snotty nasty language with vulgar terms. Still could not understand the basis, but the 'delete' key worked fine.
A good clear header on your email also works, if it's not a "reply to" type thing. That helps to keep YOUR email going to the Inbox, instead of the Spam filter.
That might not ensure that every breeder responds to your email query, but it might help you win some attention, if you haven't paid attention to that previously.
And I do understand that sellers should expect to get some bad emails, and it's frustrating to respond to a email asking tons of questions, and really answer everything, and send extra pics, and more info, just to have them suddenly go silant. Then a month later it's "Do you still have that snake for me?"
I'm glad you finally found a good deal, maybe that was the Deal Awaiting you.

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

One thing also, be aware of how you type out that first email.
The very few times I've advertised anything, I invariably get some emails that sound like this...
"U have 1 i cud get?"
And that's it. I'm not saying that YOUR email read like that. But just wanted to point out that those emails pop up too. I've gotten long rambled stuff that I couldn't understand, and when I reply with a "Could you clarify your email please?" I get a bunch of snotty nasty language with vulgar terms. Still could not understand the basis, but the 'delete' key worked fine.
A good clear header on your email also works, if it's not a "reply to" type thing. That helps to keep YOUR email going to the Inbox, instead of the Spam filter.
That might not ensure that every breeder responds to your email query, but it might help you win some attention, if you haven't paid attention to that previously.
And I do understand that sellers should expect to get some bad emails, and it's frustrating to respond to a email asking tons of questions, and really answer everything, and send extra pics, and more info, just to have them suddenly go silant. Then a month later it's "Do you still have that snake for me?"
I'm glad you finally found a good deal, maybe that was the Deal Awaiting you.

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So you are saying, In order to be able to Buy or Sell a snake. You have to know how to spell?? And use PUNKtioation?? I think that idea STINKS!

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

One thing also, be aware of how you type out that first email.
The very few times I've advertised anything, I invariably get some emails that sound like this...
"U have 1 i cud get?"
And that's it. I'm not saying that YOUR email read like that. But just wanted to point out that those emails pop up too. I've gotten long rambled stuff that I couldn't understand, and when I reply with a "Could you clarify your email please?" I get a bunch of snotty nasty language with vulgar terms. Still could not understand the basis, but the 'delete' key worked fine.
A good clear header on your email also works, if it's not a "reply to" type thing. That helps to keep YOUR email going to the Inbox, instead of the Spam filter.
That might not ensure that every breeder responds to your email query, but it might help you win some attention, if you haven't paid attention to that previously.
And I do understand that sellers should expect to get some bad emails, and it's frustrating to respond to a email asking tons of questions, and really answer everything, and send extra pics, and more info, just to have them suddenly go silant. Then a month later it's "Do you still have that snake for me?"
I'm glad you finally found a good deal, maybe that was the Deal Awaiting you.

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Wolfy, have you ever read any of my posts? :D If anything, I type properly drawn out posts and emails like a freakin' dork. This post not included. :) I understand what you're saying. Still, if I got an email that said, "U have 1 i cud get?", I would respond as soon as I saw it with a minimum of, "Yeah dog, two left", or "Naw homie, sold out this morning". I also use good headers, like, "Reply to 0.1 - 680+ gram yellow belly - intersted in buying". :confused:

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

Yeah, a lot of breeders with tables at shows surprise me too. They'll sit there talking to a buddy forever while you stand there and and stare at them, or even worse not even be at their own table. There have been a ton of people who have lost my business at shows because they won't take a minute of their time to take the wad of cash from my hand. Why even bother paying for a table and making the drive? On the other hand there are people like John Piro and Tim and Monica Bailey who have the common sense to get the job done. Last year at NARBC Tinley I went both days, and I had good conversations both days with them. I was looking for a nice normal female and almost everyone at the show had some, but John took the time to talk to me about his business, his snakes, and just shoot the breeze. Hell, we talked about Chicago vs. New York pizza and how steaks ordered medium in Chicago come bloody, for about 10 minutes. But when other people walked up he asked me to hold on while he took care of them which is exactly what everyone with a table sould be doing. Same thing with the Baileys. Unfortuneately I didn't have any money to buy anything from them, but because of that weekend I constantly look at B&B's website and I plan to do business with them as soon as they have something I need.

LMAO. I can see it now. "Honey, college can wait, the king has to go make a $50 spot right quick".

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I think that is where you have the business people and the breeders yet again. People that leave an impression with you and know that just a simple conversation and a showing a love for what they do goes a long way. Its sounds so petty but "its the little things". The people that have not responded to me in a timely manner or were rude, its funny, they still have those animals months later. If you are not business minded you cannot run a business.:D

Still waiting on BT's response...............

I'm getting in to this conversation way late, but I'm sorry to hear of your trouble. I can assure you that it is not uncommon at all! I inquire about stuff all the time with no response. The only thing I can say is that if a breeder can't take the time to respond to me that is my first indication I should look elsewhere....

There's a reason there will be fewer and fewer in this business. Only those with customer service will continue to do well as the customer base is expanding rapidly on some of the rarer animals.

Justin

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Originally Posted by jkobylka

I'm getting in to this conversation way late, but I'm sorry to hear of your trouble. I can assure you that it is not uncommon at all! I inquire about stuff all the time with no response. The only thing I can say is that if a breeder can't take the time to respond to me that is my first indication I should look elsewhere....

There's a reason there will be fewer and fewer in this business. Only those with customer service will continue to do well as the customer base is expanding rapidly on some of the rarer animals.

Justin

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i COULDN'T AGREE MORE

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Originally Posted by jkobylka

I'm getting in to this conversation way late, but I'm sorry to hear of your trouble. I can assure you that it is not uncommon at all! I inquire about stuff all the time with no response. The only thing I can say is that if a breeder can't take the time to respond to me that is my first indication I should look elsewhere....

There's a reason there will be fewer and fewer in this business. Only those with customer service will continue to do well as the customer base is expanding rapidly on some of the rarer animals.

Justin

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Originally Posted by West Coast Jungle

i COULDN'T AGREE MORE

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Me neither.

Wow! I am amazed and saddened by these stories.... :(
I have only dealt with two breeders for balls and they were both timely with their responses and completely willing to spend with me as much time as I needed. Sometimes, if I emailed them and it felt like I ought to have received a response back, I would just email again. Do you guys believe that simply emailing one time is all you are responsible for doing in order to get a snake that you really want??? :rolleye2: Boy, not me; I'm much more proactive than that and sometimes emails get overlooked or lost in the ether!!
I also have 2 boas coming from two different breeders and they were right on top of it too! Maybe it's a Kingsnake problem.....
At any rate, I do know that there are good and conscientious breeders out there who understand and implement a business model and do it well. I also understand that it is sometimes the responsibility of the consumer to inquire more than once...don't cha think?! :confused:

I did say that I wasn't referring to you directly. I am merely pointing out the possible other side to the coin.
I've seen more coherant posts on this site than on most other sites that I read online. And you don't have to send a fully beta-ed essay with proper form, but it helps if the seller can at least know what the heck you are asking. Look at my own postings, and I'm sure there are plenty of misspelled words and typos.

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Originally Posted by starmom

Do you guys believe that simply emailing one time is all you are responsible for doing in order to get a snake that you really want??? :rolleye2: Boy, not me; I'm much more proactive than that and sometimes emails get overlooked or lost in the ether!!
I also understand that it is sometimes the responsibility of the consumer to inquire more than once...don't cha think?! :confused:

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If they have an ad that only has an email to contact them, I completely expect them to get back to me when I email them the same morning they put the add up. And if I call them in addition to sending an email, I expect them to either answer the phone at some point during the day, or at least have some kind of message that let's me know I'm calling the correct number. They should be proactive in making sales. As a customer, I don't think I should have to spend a lot of my time hunting people down to give them my money. I'd rather spend that time hunting for someone who will give me proper customer service and take the time to make me feel good about sending them one or two, or three weeks worth of my paychecks.

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

If they have an ad that only has an email to contact them, I completely expect them to get back to me when I email them the same morning they put the add up. And if I call them in addition to sending an email, I expect them to either answer the phone at some point during the day, or at least have some kind of message that let's me know I'm calling the correct number. They should be proactive in making sales. As a customer, I don't think I should have to spend a lot of my time hunting people down to give them my money. I'd rather spend that time hunting for someone who will give me proper customer service and take the time to make me feel good about sending them one or two, or three weeks worth of my paychecks.

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If they only have an email you can't possibly call them also. I was just saying that some of these breeders are huge and sometimes email winds up in the spam folder. However, I also strongly feel that if a consumer believes they have gone above and beyond, then it is indeed time to move on to a breeder who will not only be there for the sale, but will also be available long after the sale. :gj:

I think if you are running a business a customer should not have to hunt you down to give you his or her money. Its like going shopping for a car and having to go find a sales person. A larger breeder has the luxury of missing a email or two, a small breeder does not. A real business person always makes themselves available with in reason. Breeders just need to realize that this market is growing day by day and if you are not the one first on the phone, first to the email, first on top of your game, then you will loose. Every breeder that I have bought from has been quick to respond and professional from beginning to end and I will always go back and do business with them. First impressions are key to any successful business model.:D

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Originally Posted by FL0OD

I think if you are running a business a customer should not have to hunt you down to give you his or her money. Its like going shopping for a car and having to go find a sales person. A larger breeder has the luxury of missing a email or two, a small breeder does not. A real business person always makes themselves available with in reason. Breeders just need to realize that this market is growing day by day and if you are not the one first on the phone, first to the email, first on top of your game, then you will loose. Every breeder that I have bought from has been quick to respond and professional from beginning to end and I will always go back and do business with them. First impressions are key to any successful business model.:D

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Absolutely! :gj:

Another thing to think about is with smaller breeders is almost all of them have "real Jobs" so getting back to someone can sometimes take a few days depending on what they do for a living..But if your placing ads actively trying to sell something then thats a different story ;)

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Originally Posted by starmom

If they only have an email you can't possibly call them also.

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To clarify, these were two seperate breeders. One only had an email address on the ad, and he didn't respond to an email. The other breeder also had a phone number, but he didn't answer any of my 3 calls thoughout the day, nor did he have a voice message that mentioned anything about him or his business. It was just a lady's voice repeating the number I dialed, like it was a single lady living at a residence with her cats. At first I didn't think I dialed the right #. After a few days of no response from the first breeder, I was able to google his name to get a number to call him.

i have responded to a few ads on kingsnake and i thought they were slow to respond until i went to dump my bulk mail and there they were in my bulk bin for some reason. so if you have a bulk bin check in there.

I am a small breeder and we work REAL jobs as well but there is NO reason that you cannot check your email at least once a day....
We try to get back to people as soon as we can and in the order the email or call came in. This maybe late at night or early in the morning but we try. We also check voice mail often and everyone gets a break during the day..... Dont you think that sometimes when breeders or anyone doing well in life gets to a point where they get a BIG HEAD or feel as they are to good for you or dont have time for you???? I have had this happen many times at shows or emails and not just in the breeding world but sports ...ect... not saying that we are better then the next guy but common curtiousy goes along way...or am I wrong???:confused:

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Originally Posted by RTM Reptiles

I am a small breeder and we work REAL jobs as well but there is NO reason that you cannot check your email at least once a day....
We try to get back to people as soon as we can and in the order the email or call came in. This maybe late at night or early in the morning but we try. We also check voice mail often and everyone gets a break during the day..... Dont you think that sometimes when breeders or anyone doing well in life gets to a point where they get a BIG HEAD or feel as they are to good for you or dont have time for you???? I have had this happen many times at shows or emails and not just in the breeding world but sports ...ect... not saying that we are better then the next guy but common curtiousy goes along way...or am I wrong???:confused:

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thats a business man:gj:

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Originally Posted by RTM Reptiles

Dont you think that sometimes when breeders or anyone doing well in life gets to a point where they get a BIG HEAD or feel as they are to good for you or dont have time for you????

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I don't know about this. I have done business with NERD, and they are huge, and they are terrific to work with. I never once got the impression that they had "a big head" and never once got the impression that they were concerned with anything other than their reptiles and their customers.
I also dealt with 8Ball and again, I felt Adam's enthusiasm and passion for his snakes and witnessed his hard work and time it took to figure out how to get the snakes out to me (what a Delta nightmare story!)
I also have 2 boas from 2 different breeders and I can only tell the same stories about them: professional, friendly, courteous, caring and devoted to snakes and customers.
Could this be a Kingsnake forum thing? I ask again because I always go right to the breeders' websites and start my point of contact there....:confused:
Anyway, just my 2 cents with my own experiences. Hopefully this might let you see that not all breeders are the way you experienced some of the breeders to be! :)

It seems to me like it is a problem with some smaller breeders. I've had mostly all good dealings with the larger names. Like I said before, it's not a fluke that the bigger names are what they are. They're doing things right, raising up and breeding nice animals and excelling in customer service. The guys who can't respond to people will never gain them as customers. The ones who respond quickly, answer questions, send you a nice healthy animal and keep in touch when you have a question have earned those customers and will likely get a lot of repeat business.
I also just remembered that when Adam wasn't breeding as his full time job, there was a note on 8ballpythons.com that said,"I don't do this as a full time thing, so I might not be able to respond to emails right away, but I will get back to every email as soon as I can". :gj: How hard is that? If you're taking the time to breed snakes and post ads, why not take a minute to add a line like that in your signature if you aren't usually available, and make a little money?

I dont think all big breeders are that way. I have talked to NERD and others at shows and NEVER got that impression but it seems a small few ( big or small breeders) seem to be in thier own world and no time for the so called little people...
And it seems this way in the world as a whole not just the reptile industry. Some people just forget the people that helped them on the way up and where they came from.....
but were not pointing any fingers or playing the blame game it's just my opinion ......:salute: