Urgent! Please Help!

So, we just did the procedure with the half water/half peroxide, and suddenly they keep opening their mouths, we thought they were just yawning, untill they began vomiting. More info here: http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=59936

Is it normal for them to vomit?

No its not normal. You should see a vet as soon as you possibly can. Good luck,:( that sounds terrible

did he drink it? did you put his head in it? take it to a vet

:( I did exactly what what was reccomended....im so panicked right now...

I didnt put his head in it, no. Just a standard bath.

Oh wow. :( I wish I would have seen that thread sooner. I would never have recommended bathing a snake in peroxide...or even wiping it down with the stuff.

Here are some links to help you find a qualified herp vet in your area:
http://www.arav.org/USMembers.htm
http://www.anapsid.org/vets/index.html#vetlist
http://www.herpvetconnection.com/

I don't know what the consequences are of ingesting peroxide...hopefully he can just eject it all and be OK. But I'd at least call some vets and see what you can learn.

Okay, possible good news. Theyre coiling again, and acting normal. Ni more of the yawning thing. Im still taking them to the vet, but if anyone can give me some peace of mind and say them acting normal is a good thing. because I know some animals can appear and behave normally and actually be really sick. I apologize to everyone, I know I appear to be an unfit canidate so far for owning a BP, but thats why I registered here. And im hoping that once this is over, I can enjoy them more than nursing them, heh.

Thanks JLC, im going to see if I can find a place open right now. Yea, I wish you would have read the thread sooner as well, lol. But yea, hopefully theyre okay now, and I definitely wont use peroxide again. Is the triple antibiotic safe to your knowledge?

The fact that you're willing to take the snakes to the vet says a lot about your "suitability" for owning them. ;) And if you're willing to learn and change as needed....you're good to go in my book. :gj:

So long as it doesn't contain any other medicines like pain-reliever...it should be ok to use. Don't slather it on...just dab a little bit. Keep the snakes on paper (newspaper or paper towels) and keep them warm and dry. No more soaking in anything until you have a vet's specific advice otherwise.

If ingested, solutions of hydrogen peroxide up to concentrations of 9% are generally nontoxic; however, even a 3% solution is mildly irritating to mucosal tissue and may cause vomiting and diarrhea. Ingestion of industrial-strength solutions (≥10%) causes systemic toxicity and has been associated with fatalities.
http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/h4070.htm
Large Oral doses can be irritating, and cause vomiting, but if it was a solution of half peroxide and half water, there is another cause for the vomiting.

With that weak of a solution you would have to ingest large amount of the solution. Something your snake would most likely not do.

If you handled your snake after eating, or there are internal parasites, that can be a reason for regurging. I doubt that the bath made them do this as it's barely toxic at all at those levels.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Furinax

So, we just did the procedure with the half water/half peroxide, and suddenly they keep opening their mouths, we thought they were just yawning, untill they began vomiting. More info here: http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=59936

Is it normal for them to vomit?

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What is the peroxide thing?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by West Coast Jungle

What is the peroxide thing?

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:whisper: Follow the link he provided to find out.

Right, I made sure to get the kind w/o pain releiver, and theyve been on paper for the last few days, changed daily. (probably not needed, but I want to play it safe) I cant stand to see any animal suffer, ive even offered to take other peoples animals to vets for them. I have a Torbie cat, and a Siberian Husky, both of which have regular vet visits. I was just so panicked because im not used to dealing with reptiles. My thanks goi out to everyone who helped. Thanks for the assurement, JLC. If I have anymore questions or concerns, ill message you privately, if you dont mind.

Here is what I know. Note, this is not intended to say you don't need to go to a vet. Just trying to give you some information.

The hydrogen peroxide bottle says not to ingest it. I'm pretty sure it says to call poison control or at least a doctor if you do.

Hydrogen peroxide will induce vomiting if ingested. Some people use it as a mouthwash/tooth whitener, and I've heard that even if you don't actually swallow it, just getting it towards the back of your mouth too far can trigger vomiting.

Some people in dog circles recommend giving hydrogen peroxide to your dog if it swallows something it shouldn't, in order to get the dog to vomit it back up. Apparently this causes no ill effects to the dogs, other than the vomiting itself. I guess they figure it is often better than leaving whatever inside the dog. Please note I am not recommending this. I've just heard of it, but don't know enough about whether or not it is really a good idea.

So, my guess is that somehow the snakes ingested some of the peroxide solution. However, just because dogs can ingest peroxide and then vomit and then go on with no problems does not mean that snakes can. Regurgitation is a fairly serious thing in snakes.

As far as you being a suitable owner... you are here trying to get advice and to make things better. You plan on taking your snakes to the vet. Those things say a lot. No one was born knowing how to properly take care of BPs.

Your doing good buddy. Hopefully they leave the vet with some reassuring results for you. Good luck again:gj:

They were fine before we bathed them, and they both started at the same time. So im fairly positive they managed to get some in their mouths, as I did see the white bubblies associated with peroxide. But it was 50/50, and right now they are behaving normally, and healthy. So thats a plus. Theyre still getting a vet visit, weve already scheduled one. So hopefully by this time next week, theyll be right as rain.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

If ingested, solutions of hydrogen peroxide up to concentrations of 9% are generally nontoxic; however, even a 3% solution is mildly irritating to mucosal tissue and may cause vomiting and diarrhea. Ingestion of industrial-strength solutions (≥10%) causes systemic toxicity and has been associated with fatalities.
http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/h4070.htm
Large Oral doses can be irritating, and cause vomiting, but if it was a solution of half peroxide and half water, there is another cause for the vomiting.

With that weak of a solution you would have to ingest large amount of the solution. Something your snake would most likely not do.

If you handled your snake after eating, or there are internal parasites, that can be a reason for regurging. I doubt that the bath made them do this as it's barely toxic at all at those levels.

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Hi,

Connie I'm a little confused?

If you told him to use half and half then it may have ingested a 50% solution - if a 3% solution can cause vomiting what makes you think the 50% is not the cause of the vomiting this time?


dr del

Peroxide is a bad idea, it will burn if apply on a damage tissue (you might not feel the sting but animals do), peroxide also slows the healing process and growth of healthy tissue.

Whenever you have to clean a wound simply use betadine.

Hope your BP will get better and make sure to have it seen by an herp vet regardless.

connie, isn't that information for humans? i don't see anything about snake consumption. it seems like they'd be more sensitive to it than we would.

derek, my peroxide bottle is only 3% solution. assuming he has the same strength, half and half would be 1.5%

furinax, good luck! let us know what happens!

Thanks for the positive feedback. It means alot guys. I knew the effects of peroxide, and how it can be used for those different things, just wasnt sure how snakes took it. I know vomiting isnt good for snakes, but I didnt know if that was only if they were vomiting food or not. I think ive definitely learned an incredible amount these last few days, just wish most of the posts I made were good ones, lol. Ill try and post some pics of them ASAP. Ive had a few people tell me that mine might have a degree of pastel in him, maybe someone can clarify.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

Connie I'm a little confused?

If you told him to use half and half then it may have ingested a 50% solution - if a 3% solution can cause vomiting what makes you think the 50% is not the cause of the vomiting this time?


dr del

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I'm sorry, half water half 3% peroxide is what I had said. NOT 50% solution peroxide. That's not even for sale in stores! 3% is usually what's for sale.

I was just giving him what my Vet had told me not 3 weeks ago for our girl. She had a dime size patch on her belly that he told me to wash with the peroxide solution.

I've seen the error in my advice not even a day after when Becky had said that peroxide wasn't even a good antiseptic.

Oh wow...no. It was just standard peroxide. 50/50 as in half a cup of water, and half a cup of peroxide.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I'm sorry, half water half 3% peroxide is what I had said. NOT 50% solution peroxide. That's not even for sale in stores! 3% is usually what's for sale.

I was just giving him what my Vet had told me not 3 weeks ago for our girl. She had a dime size patch on her belly that he told me to wash with the peroxide solution.

I've seen the error in my advice not even a day after when Becky had said that peroxide wasn't even a good antiseptic.

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Hi,

O.K I have no clue what concentrations peroxide is sold in so can't comment on the range available.

It might be handy to find out what concentration Furinax used in case it was stronger than 3%.

**edit**

Ok so it was over the counter - was it the 3%?

**end edit**


But you actually didn't eleborate on the strength of the mix in your post either. :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Re: Scale Rot?

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It does look like scale rot. To treat scale rot, you can give them a wash of half peroxide and half water, warm daily. After the bath put a triple antibiotic on it with no pain reliever.
Put them on either paper towels or newspaper as a substrate.

I have heard many people say just the peroxide bath's will help, but please have a vet look at it regardless.
__________________

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If you only knew of one strength being available then that is understandable but, as I said this isn't my area.:confused:


dr del

Sorry, I had assumed that the only percentage available for sale was 3%.

I've seen 2 different peroxides available. I think one was 1/2 the strength of the other, but I know both were small percentages. So if Connie has one that is 3%, I'd assume what I have seen is either 3% and 6%, or 3% and 1.5%.

Just goes to show how you always need to ask questions and clarify, even when the advice is coming from a vet (or doctor). If the vet was assuming the stronger OTC version, and wanted that diluted by half, but Connie had the weaker one, maybe half of that wouldn't be strong enough to have the desired effect.

I'm glad to hear that the snakes seem to be doing better for now.

I got to thinking about it and thought I'd post the link to the other thread where peroxide was discussed. The fact that so many people, even doctors, still use and recommend peroxide, even though I'd heard about 10 years ago that it was no longer considered good for most of the uses it traditionally has been used for is sort of a pet peeve of mine, so I'm just trying to spread the word.

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=59974

::Robert Stack:: UPDATE! Theyre both doing great, both have already eaten today, and it looks as if theyre getting ready to shed. The scale rot is surprisingly gone. So all is in good order, thanks to everyones help and advice.

Glad to hear the snakes are doing well. Hopefully you've addressed the husbandry issues that brought this whole situation on in the first place.

I think it's important at this juncture to mention that whatever advice you are given, it's the responsibility of the owner to double or even triple check the information shared. It's no insult to anyone, or shouldn't be, for a smart owner to ask for validation of that advice, to research themselves on any issue and to ask for more opinions. One might, depending on advice given, even phone their vet to check that this is a safe procedure for that particular species.

I was going to post this too... peroxide does induce vomiting... Had to help my neighbor get some medicine her dogs ate, outta their tummy's, the poison control told her to give them a teaspoon & it would induce vomiting. & it did.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

If ingested, solutions of hydrogen peroxide up to concentrations of 9% are generally nontoxic; however, even a 3% solution is mildly irritating to mucosal tissue and may cause vomiting and diarrhea. Ingestion of industrial-strength solutions (≥10%) causes systemic toxicity and has been associated with fatalities.
http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/h4070.htm
Large Oral doses can be irritating, and cause vomiting, but if it was a solution of half peroxide and half water, there is another cause for the vomiting.

With that weak of a solution you would have to ingest large amount of the solution. Something your snake would most likely not do.

If you handled your snake after eating, or there are internal parasites, that can be a reason for regurging. I doubt that the bath made them do this as it's barely toxic at all at those levels.

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We just added a bit too much water to the tank. The water spread the urine and anything else around, and Jiraiya being in constant contact with it caused scale rot. The issue with the husbandry was taken care of before I even made the first post. Since then, ive been using paper, and a spray bottle a couple times a day. Seems to be working fine, scale rot is gone, Jiraiya has a vet appointment. Mistakes are made to learn from, and thats something ive definitely learned from.

Do you have two Ball Pythons?? Sounded like you were soaking them together and that you are housing them together..

Stress plays a big role in how their immune system reacts to outside intruders(IE bacterial infection/scale rot). Hopefully they aren't housed together, but it sure sounds like it.. The less stress they have to endure, the healthier they will be in the long run.

Yes, there are 2. And they are being housed together. Jiraiya is mine, and Orochimaru is my fiance's. At the time we bought mine(from a collector, not a pet store, you dont really buy animals from pet stores, more like rescuing, lol) he said keeping them together is okay. We still planned on seperating them, its only been a few weeks, and im in discussions with a friend right now in picking up up some supplies he has. So by tomorrow they should be seperated. Would have happened sooner, but we were under the assumption that it was okay (the guy was a collector with a wide array of reptiles, so we figured it sound advice). So no worries on that front either. Im working on fixing things as soon as I have the oppurtunity. Also, we have a Ghost corn snake named tsunade, shes obviously in her own tank.