Weight loss-how much is too much

Velvet, my BP when I got her on Dec. 14 was 103 grams. I got her from PetsMart and they gave me all her paperwork, feeding charts etc...they were feeding her F/T (which I have continued)fuzzy mice which were too small for her as they are less than half the diameter that she is. When I got her they gave me a container of the fuzzies to go with her and I used those to feed and she would eat 3 of them. She was feeding great on fuzzies every week up to about a week before she shed and she almost stopped eating but she did get up to 116 grams before shed on Dec. 30. After her shed she ate again, only 1 fuzzy and have not got her to eat again.

I tried to change her to the bigger medium mice after shed which look to be about the right size for her, she freaked out like they scared her. She pulled back away from it and quickly went in the opposite direction of where the mouse was being offered. I offer the mice from feeding tongs and dangle them in front of her. As soon as she smells the bigger mice she wants nothing to do with it. The last time I weighed her she was 119 grams on Dec 31, the day after shedding. I had her out to check her and her shed to make sure it was complete. I had her out lastnight and weighed her again and her skin is sort of loose looking, and weighted only 108 grams...

Any ideas what may be going on?? She will not eat even the fuzzies now, will have nothing to do with bigger mice. Not sure if it will help but she is now 18 inches long, and as I said is 108 grams, this seems real small to me....? Any ideas how to get her eating again? I dont want to put a live mouse in with her and risk her getting hurt...what else can be done????? How much weight can she lose and be ok? Will she let herself starve...I know they can go a long time without eating but she is dropping weight..

:O:(

Thanks.

Sounds like stress to me.. Tell me about your set up and I'll see if I can help.

Temps (hot and cool side)
Humidity
What size tank/tub are you keeping it in.
How many hides and what size are they.

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Originally Posted by jason4173

Velvet, my BP when I got her on Dec. 14 was 103 grams. I got her from PetsMart and they gave me all her paperwork, feeding charts etc...they were feeding her F/T (which I have continued)fuzzy mice which were too small for her as they are less than half the diameter that she is. When I got her they gave me a container of the fuzzies to go with her and I used those to feed and she would eat 3 of them. She was feeding great on fuzzies every week up to about a week before she shed and she almost stopped eating but she did get up to 116 grams before shed on Dec. 30. After her shed she ate again, only 1 fuzzy and have not got her to eat again.

I tried to change her to the bigger medium mice after shed which look to be about the right size for her, she freaked out like they scared her. She pulled back away from it and quickly went in the opposite direction of where the mouse was being offered. I offer the mice from feeding tongs and dangle them in front of her. As soon as she smells the bigger mice she wants nothing to do with it. The last time I weighed her she was 119 grams on Dec 31, the day after shedding. I had her out to check her and her shed to make sure it was complete. I had her out lastnight and weighed her again and her skin is sort of loose looking, and weighted only 108 grams...

Any ideas what may be going on?? She will not eat even the fuzzies now, will have nothing to do with bigger mice. Not sure if it will help but she is now 18 inches long, and as I said is 108 grams, this seems real small to me....? Any ideas how to get her eating again? I dont want to put a live mouse in with her and risk her getting hurt...what else can be done????? How much weight can she lose and be ok? Will she let herself starve...I know they can go a long time without eating but she is dropping weight..

:O:(

Thanks.

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Was this an adoption snake from petsmart? I have never heard of them giving feeding charts and such.I suggest you cease handling her until she starts eating on a normal basis.I say this because every time she refuses to eat you handle her and it add more stress.Totaly leave her alone for a full week then try to feed her.If she refuses try after another week.In my experiance ball pythons can tend to be stuuborn whenever you change anything on them ;).Keep us posted

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Sounds like stress to me.. Tell me about your set up and I'll see if I can help.

Temps (hot and cool side)
Humidity
What size tank/tub are you keeping it in.
How many hides and what size are they.

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I forgot this stuff also so check these also :gj:

She is kept in a 10 gal glass tank, I have two sides and the back covered, front open. I have 2 hides, one on each end of the cage, they are about 4 inch in diameter (she can curl up inside them snugly) made from small clay flower pots, she is on cypress mulch substrate to help with my humidity. Screened top is covered with foil except about 5 inch section for light. Temp on warm side is consistantly between 92*F and 93.5*F cool side is 79.5*F to 82*F and humidity is from 48% to 55%. She has water, I have ovserved her drinking but not soaking. I have had another post on here too about suspected RI as her breating was "labored" but this seems to have subsided a couple days after her shed completed.

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Was this an adoption snake from petsmart? I have never heard of them giving feeding charts and such.

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Was not an addoption. It was a pretty simple chart that they were using to keep track of her days she was eating, a care sheet, their pet health guarantee or "warranty" for their 14 day return for health reasons.

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She is kept in a 10 gal glass tank, I have two sides and the back covered, front open.

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check

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I have 2 hides, one on each end of the cage, they are about 4 inch in diameter (she can curl up inside them snugly) made from small clay flower pots, she is on cypress mulch substrate to help with my humidity.

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check

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Screened top is covered with foil except about 5 inch section for light. Temp on warm side is consistantly between 92*F and 93.5*F cool side is 79.5*F to 82*F and humidity is from 48% to 55%.

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Ok sounds good

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She has water, I have observed her drinking but not soaking.

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Ok

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I have had another post on here too about suspected RI as her breating was "labored" but this seems to have subsided a couple days after her shed completed.

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Ok your set up sounds good to me. Some times if they are in a new place and getting messed with(handled, feeding attempts, cage changes, ect) they will stress out and quit eating. If you suspect an RI get her/him to a vet as typically medication is need to clear those up and most will start eating soon after getting better.

My only other question is..Is the tank in a high traffic area or close to a TV/radio/guitar amp/ or any thing that would cause vibration of the tank or the air with in it.

I have her housed in my living room. She is in an "out of the way" corner, but may be that the TV could be bothering her. She does get some foot traffic around her but not a lot.

Would it help to have her covered completly at night, totaly close all sides of her cage? Or maybe put her in my wifes and my room in the upstairs of our house? The only thing is the upstairs has one window and stays pretty dark all day long and especially at night. But there is NO foot traffic in there other than at bed time....

You might tyr moving her to a different part of the house and leave he be for 5-7 days and see how she does. The darker and quiter the better some balls are skidish and need that kind of security and some would eat while sitting on a drum set at a rock concert.

same problem with me, i got one from petsmart and it eats everytime i offer, the other one that i got doesnt eat at all yet. so im leaving it alone. i did find that it is 88grams only tho.
the other one is about 164 grams.

I have a question about when she was weighed. Is it possible that you weighed her after a meal, and then the last time after a defecation? All in all you should see more of a weight gain, I would think.

You may want to consider having a fecal performed to eliminate the possibilty of parasites causing problems.

Will seek a new place for her to stay and see how it goes! What about her size...being 18 inches long approx what should she be weighing? As I said in the original post Im not sure about the weight loss...what point is it too much. She was 103g when I got her, had her to 119g and now back to 108g. What is a good weight for a snake of this length to be...roughly...is there an "ideal" weight for a snake?

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Originally Posted by jason4173

Will seek a new place for her to stay and see how it goes! What about her size...being 18 inches long approx what should she be weighing? As I said in the original post Im not sure about the weight loss...what point is it too much. She was 103g when I got her, had her to 119g and now back to 108g. What is a good weight for a snake of this length to be...roughly...is there an "ideal" weight for a snake?

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I couldn't give you an ideal weight, because it seems to vary so much from individual to individual. What you want to look for is the condition of the snake. Look along the backbone. If you can see the backbone prominently then you have an emaciated snake. I'll have to see if I can snap some pictures, to give you some idea.

Also I wanted to point out that it's possible you had a full weight at 119g, and that some of the weight loss could be attributed to a defecation. You're still above where you got her, so don't panic.

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Originally Posted by jason4173

Will seek a new place for her to stay and see how it goes! What about her size...being 18 inches long approx what should she be weighing? As I said in the original post Im not sure about the weight loss...what point is it too much. She was 103g when I got her, had her to 119g and now back to 108g. What is a good weight for a snake of this length to be...roughly...is there an "ideal" weight for a snake?

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Christie made a good point remember we're only talking about 11 grams for a young ball thats a good poop and a quick pee and there went 11 grams. I wouldn't panic just yet now if she lost 75 grams in 2 weeks yea panic but she just getting started

One thing I will point out is that you got her to feed on Dec the 30th and haven't gotten her to feed again thats only 5 days. Give her a good 7 days between feeding she may not be eating cause shes not hungry. Move he to a more quite part of the house and do mess with her till like Monday or Tuesdays then try to feed her. Every thing else sounds right on..

Good job on the set up by the way.

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Originally Posted by tigerlily

I have a question about when she was weighed. Is it possible that you weighed her after a meal, and then the last time after a defecation? All in all you should see more of a weight gain, I would think.

You may want to consider having a fecal performed to eliminate the possibilty of parasites causing problems.

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Dec 18 - ate 3 fuzzies
Dec 19 - poo
Dec 23 - 116g
Dec 24 - tried feeding - no (showing signs of shed coming, white eyes)
Dec 29 - tried feeding - 1 fuzzy down
Dec 30 - complete shed
Dec 31 - 119g
Jan 1-08 - poo
Jan 3-08 - tried feeding - no

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Originally Posted by jason4173

Dec 18 - ate 3 fuzzies
Dec 19 - poo
Dec 23 - 116g
Dec 24 - tried feeding - no (showing signs of shed coming, white eyes)
Dec 29 - tried feeding - 1 fuzzy down
Dec 30 - complete shed
Dec 31 - 119g
Jan 1-08 - poo
Jan 3-08 - tried feeding - no

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Yea give her a couple of days in the new part of the house and see how she goes..

If it make you feel any better I have one that hasn't eaten since Oct 07 :D

My wife just made a point too...when I offered an adult mouse and she (the snake) :P refused to eat it, I then offered a fuzzie and she struck and ate...should I try to keep her on the fuzzies and just give her 3 or so that she will eat? Her skin is "loose" and kinda baggy, no prominant backbone but definantly losing weight.

Am wondering if she is freaked out about having a small adult mouse introduced after being fed only the tiny fuzzies...

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Originally Posted by jason4173

Am wondering if she is freaked out about having a small adult mouse introduced after being fed only the tiny fuzzies...

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Could be....Try the fuzzie and see what happens. If she eats three so be it then she eat three.

I have a male that will only eat mice he eats 3 adult mice a week but will not touch a rat..A Jedi once told me "Feed them what they will eat"

Ok...on my way to the pet store to get some more fuzzies then..will try that and see how it goes!! Thanks everyone!!!!!!! will update with how it goes.

Thanks again for the help!!

:salute:

Here are some pics of some of my '07 to give you an idea about body size.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1...abysnakes1.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1...abysnakes2.jpg
Close up of the girl on the left (150g - smallest in my collection)
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1...abysnakes3.jpg
Chunkiest girl of mine (255g)
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1...abysnakes4.jpg

All are about the same length, and all are in good shape. You can still see the backbone in the the smaller snakes, but it's not sunk in (which would the the case of a thin snake).

Maybe post a picture and let us gauge the snake for you as well, if you're able. Otherwise I think that it's a good plan to stick with the multiple fuzzies until you're more confident about their feeding. It's definitely likely that a lot of that first weight was due to the feeding. There's very little likelihood that that defecation right after had anything to do with the meal consumed the day before, imo.

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Originally Posted by tigerlily

Here are some pics of some of my '07 to give you an idea about body size.

All are about the same length, and all are in good shape. You can still see the backbone in the the smaller snakes, but it's not sunk in (which would the the case of a thin snake).

Maybe post a picture and let us gauge the snake for you as well, if you're able. Otherwise I think that it's a good plan to stick with the multiple fuzzies until you're more confident about their feeding. It's definitely likely that a lot of that first weight was due to the feeding. There's very little likelihood that that defecation right after had anything to do with the meal consumed the day before, imo.

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Ok...I got Velvet to eat one fuzzy...I offered a second but she ate the one and was on her way to her hide and not even a little interested in the second. I left it in the cage with her and she has not touched it.

The snakes that you have pictured in your post both look WAY "thicker" than mine even comes close to being!! I have some pics posted in my gallery...not sure if you can get to them or not...but I will try to get one posted on here ASAP. I am not sure about bothering her right now or just leaving her alone tho...

Duh. Why didn't occur to me to look in your gallery. :ohmygod:

Velvet looks fine. Perhaps a little on the thin side, but a long way from starving. If you ever feel that the weight gain is not adequate you may want to consider vet care. I for one would recommend the fecal float to check on parasites, which would inhibit the absorbtion of nutrient from the meals... especially if the weight loss continues.

Give her a couple months with a good feeding routine and you'll see a pretty remarkable difference. :yes:

She's a tad thinnish but pretty much a very typical looking pet store baby snake.

I'd put her enclosure in your bedroom where it's quiet, low traffic and low light. I wouldn't handle her at all other than for cage maintenance and maybe a weight check here or there. Other than that I'd just let the little darling settle in, feel secure in her new home and work on getting her eating steadily for you.

I'd suggest you phone around and ask for quotes from your local vets for a fecal float. It is usually very inexpensive ($20 or less) and can be done often while you wait. Just gather her next feces, pop it in a ziploc baggie and put it in the fridge until you can run it over to the vet's office. That way you and your wife will know whether this snake has any internal parasites affecting her adversely.

Just be patient, some little ones take awhile to get going. At least you are getting some food into her and she is willing to eat. It just may take a number of weeks to slowly work her up to accepting a slightly larger prey item. You should be able to find a size between fuzzy and fully adult. Some suppliers label them as "hoppers", some label them as "young adult", some call them "weanlings". Here's a link to RodentPro to help you see all the sizes available in f/t mice.

http://www.rodentpro.com/catalog.asp...el=frozen_mice

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

You should be able to find a size between fuzzy and fully adult. Some suppliers label them as "hoppers", some label them as "young adult", some call them "weanlings". Here's a link to RodentPro to help you see all the sizes available in f/t mice.

http://www.rodentpro.com/catalog.asp...el=frozen_mice

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I was able to find "hoppers" and did offer one to her and she had nothing to do with it. I returned to the pet store and got some more fuzzies yesterday and after about 2 hrs to let her calm down a bit offered a fuzzy, she smacked it hard and very fast, coiled up around it and held it and started to eat it then dropped it on the bottom of her cage and just looked at it for a few minutes. Then left it, after about 5 minutes she went back to it and ate it. I offered her another and she was done, she went right past the second that I was dangling for her and went right to her hide. I was up pretty late last night and she was out and very active lastnight tho...guess this is a good sign, just wish she would get to eating better.