Dumbo rats....

I have a question about dumbo rats.... I am thinking about buying a couple female rats to raise up into breeders eventually. I have a 10g tank and I have been doing a lot of reading up on here and I found a person who breeds dumbo rats. She wants 15 dollars each for them which I think is a bit pricey but as I am new to this whole thing maybe not?

Anyway... I am thinking of maybe just keeping dumbos... Is this even a good idea? Is it important to keep other kinds of rats also? I am just wondering.

They are likely that price because she's a pet rat breeder. She may not choose to sell to you because you own snakes that eat rodents, just be prepared for that.

Two rats cannot live and grow up in a 10 gallon tank, they will very quickly (as in overnight) outgrow it. I use 10's but only as maternity enclosures for one rat and her offspring for the first 10-15 days or so after birthing, then they go into roomier tubs. You'll want to get a proper large rat cage most likely.

why would you choose dumbo over standard eard rats anyway?

If your feeding them off there is no advantage to
A: using a breeders rat, especially considering they are specfically bred to be pets
B: aside from ear placement there is no difference.. for example you could have a litter with both standard and dumbo eared rats.. aside from the cutness factor (oi I just cant feed rats!)

if you choose to use a breeder, they may force you to sign a statement promissing not to breed their rats, you have to remember these breeders put alot of time and work into getting the animals they offer and wouldnt want their "babies" being bred.. especially not to supply food!

I also agree with joanne.. a 10gal is rediculous to keep rats in.. even just one (And they should never be kept alone) how many snakes are you feeding. is it even nessesary to breed your own? Your talking very large bins at least to keep any breeder mom in... my pair of pets are kept in a 5' tall cage.

Duh on my part with the 10g tank thing... I am not sure what I was thinking especially as I had just been searching over previous posts from your self and another lady here about your new bin designs... Didn't even register in my mind. Having issues this morning I guess.

I might not mention that I have any snakes... I know its dishonest but not so much really, they would be pets too. We aren't biased here lol my house is already a small zoo... whats a couple of rats to go with the snakes cats dogs lizards mice.... I feel like I am forgetting someone....lol

I don't need very many babies... so I figured I would get a couple females and when they are grown enough pick up a male. Its a ways away still... I am thinking early March as I have a couple other projects I want to finish up first.

I dont think you have enough snakes to validate breeding.. that also goes with saying i dont recommend breeding unless its nessesary (high feeding bills because of multiple snakes) your talking possibly 15-20 babies in one shot. then in order to feed them at what size your snakes are consuming you have to pay for the bedding, food, space, exc for as long as it takes them to be ready... its really a bottomless money pit compared to even spending $20 a week on feeders (for what you own it shouldnt even be that high) no one can force you to do what your going to do but being dishonest doesnt help either, imagine how the breeder would feel..

I don't know what to tell you Ashley other than I have read a lot of information around this site about rats mice snakes and whatever else catches my eye. I have seen many times here, and on another sites I like to read at, that its probably not a good idea to disclose that I own snakes.

As I am mostly just fishing for more information I accept your opinion and will respectfully not insult you any further with my questions.

Thanks and have a nice day.

Jessyca, of course people are going to tell you not to disclose that you have rodent eating animals.. why would a breeder who breeds their animals for companions sell you something that could possibly be long term food.. even if you decide not to feed the rats you pick up you would be intending to feed their off spring. Youve gotta think of it from that stand point to understand why other people would choose to not disclose their intent or pets. I guarantee if you went to a breeder and said, I have three rat eating pets and I would like to purchase one of your pets to keep as a pet but also to breed to feed to my pet they would tell you, you were out of your mind.

Your not insulting me with your questions, as thats what they are, questions. All I'm doing is supplying you with my opinion and answers. What I want to know is why would you choose a dumbo rat over a standard eared rat when the only difference is ear placement. Why would you not choose to get your breeder rats (breeder meaning to breed to have babies, not a person breeder) from a resource such as a reptile store, who supply feeder quality feeders (meaning well fed, not bred for color, temperment, longevity, exc..rat breeders often put years into getting liniage of healthy, long living, friendly rats) instead of feeding off an animal thats intended to be a pet.. I have friends and work with breeders who breed rats as pets and I can tell you they would be mortified to know your intent and wouldnt place one of their animals with you knowing that... I have pet rats who have never even seen the snake that lives here and never will. I have feeder mice intended for that, which I get not from a mouse breeder but from a feeder supplier.. just my 0.02.

Also, as i said previously.. i just cant see how you can justify having rats to breed when your only feeding four snakes total.. only one who eats baby rats/mice I just couldnt understand the expendature of having rats to breed when it works out cheaper to buy feeders as you need them. If you want two rats as pets thats a totally different ball game. I have two rats, getting ready to add at least one more from a breeder.. my rats are as much a part of our family as our bearded dragons, cresties, exc.. they are equal to a dog in my mind.

The only risk you run with buying from a fancy rat breeder is that her animals may not be the best for breeding. I would have to say most likely she would not sell you a male and a female. The goal of rat breeders is to produce pretty rats, not high production rats, and I would have to say they work hard on their pedigrees to get that "perfect" rat. They find it very insulting if you use their rat for a feeder breeder. Chances are, she will not sell to you. It's just the way it is.

Second, there are a lot of feeder breeders down in tenessee. Perhaps someone around here would offer to sell you a pair to get you started.

Third, why not check out petsmart or petco? I got 2 of my female's from there, and they produce litters of 15-16 each time. One girl is around 400 grams. She is a large Non fatty female. She turned out great, is a great mom, and I love her to death.

Also, I would like to mention, dumbos are extremely, overkill, cute when young, if you like rats at all, you may find it hard to feed them off. We have both, they grow the same, just the cuteness factor really goes into high gear when you have dumbos around.

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=52894 check out that thread. It's a great run down of what your looking at.

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5 snakes means 5 rats per week * 26 weeks (6 months) = 130 rats

To buy at the pet store = 130 rats * $4 = $520 (avg.)
To buy F/T from a .com = 130 rats * $0.92 = $120 (avg.)
($0.69 each rat + $0.23 ) ($0.23 is what is costs to ship each rat total = $30)

To breed = $146
I assumed 12 breeder females (to produce 10 feeders per week) and 2 males * $4 = $56 + Monthly Food/Bedding = $15 * 6 month = $90 (and you have to buy/build housing for all of them = $??)

Take this to a year: 260 rats
Buy F/T = $192 (since you could buy the whole year at once the per rat cost goes down)
To Breed = $236 (getting closer but still not worth it)

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Connie.. great response!

Well, now we have one person saying the rats aren't as good as breeders, since they were bred as pets.
Then the next saying they got females from Petsmart, which is Pet rats, and they do great.
I don't know about you, but I have breeders still(even though I don't produce enough for my snakes, and most of the adults haven't produced in a while) and I prefer to have different colors and I like rexes and dumbos. If I have to have rats to breed for my snakes, I'd rather get pretty interesting rats rather than just plain albino white rats. I'd rather keep a strain of nice handable rats, rather than not. I treat my breeder rats very well, and the feeders are treated well, up til they are fed to snakes.
I haven't seen any difference in production from rats I got from Petsmart, from a pet rat breeder and from out of the feeder bin at the reptile store. If I was looking to get a possible future breeder, I always pick cool looking rats, colored prettily, with rex coats, whatever. I like to keep the most tame females for breeders.
There is nothing wrong with wanting to breed your rats. It's more expensive than buying frozen. But you can assure you have quality rats to feed. And let's face it, rats are interesting to have around. I certainly enjoy mine.
I never lied to anyone I bought a rat from. Not once. I can understand not mentioning that you keep reptiles if you go to buy a rat as a pet, and MAYBE as a breeder. But if the breeder doesn't want you to breed it, I'm honest, and I pass on that rat. It's just me.
I think if you want to try it, you should do exactly what you're doing. Read up on it, and research the money and the care. If you like dumbos best, than use dumbos to breed with. They are really no better than other rats, but hey. Nothing wrong with being able to admire your breeders for their good looks.
Good luck. There's a lot of good advice here for you.

I think the point needs made, and Wolfy touched on it in her post, that breeding your own feeders is not always just about saving money on your feeding costs.

I started breeding rats when we had about 5 snakes. Partly due to the cost savings (the pet store was awfully expensive) but also for two other even more valid reasons.

#1 - the pet store did not always have in stock the exact sizes that our snakes needed that week

#2 - though they did breed their own rodents and the quality of care was very high, that's not always the case in most pet stores that simply bring in feeders in bulk and often overcrowd them

Whether you want to have rats as pets, as pets that breed feeders for you, or straight up breeders for feeders that's your decision. The only thing I'll suggest is you simply purchase the rats from a source that knows your intentions. To lie to a pet/show rat breeder only gives other snakekeepers that breed rats a poor image so I'd avoid that.

You may well be able to find a member here that lives near you and can sell you a couple of lovely just weaned females (try starting a seperate thread on that and see if you get any responses). If not, you can check into reptile shows in your area, often rat breeders attend those. Last would be to check into local pet stores. There's nothing wrong with pet store rats from decent pet stores that care for them well and keep the males and females seperated.

Wherever you buy from, purchase recently weaned rats of around 5 or 6 weeks of age. Check them much as you would a puppy or kitten - clean bright eyes, dry nose (no red discharge from eyes or nose), clean dry butt, no sores on tail or the bottom of their feet, a nice clean coat free of bugs and laying flat to the rat's body (not fluffed up or mangy looking), no scabs on the skin under their coat, good body weight being not fat or skinny. A decent temperment, the rat will be skittish but shoudn't be obviously aggressive to you. Color and pattern are your choice but if you do intend to breed you may want to do some further research on certain genetic issues that you see more often with certain colors/patterns of rats.

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

Well, now we have one person saying the rats aren't as good as breeders, since they were bred as pets.
Then the next saying they got females from Petsmart, which is Pet rats, and they do great.

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I think you misread my post. Fancy rat breeders, for show animals, are bred for looks, and finding the perfect rat. The underlying suggestion was that it may not be in her best interest to go in that route.

They could be fantastic breeders, producing a high volume of little rats, but I would think that a fancy rat breeder does not take into account how many rats average from a litter, and use it as a priority for the future pairings. It's more based on looks than high rat production.
For example, I choose the most outgoing and largest females to hold back. Looks is not a priority, but it's a bonus. I want large litters. I don't have any proof of anything, but it's just a train of thought to follow.

Buying from petsmart isn't all bad. I do have couple great females from there. Just saying that it is still an option when the chances of a fancy rat breeder selling to her are slim. Trying to keep options open in case this one route falls through!

Becky would have fountains more information on the fancy's pairings. And what your looking at when buying from a fancy breeder. Just keep in mind that lying is not very respectful to these people that put a lot of time and money into companion animals. It's pretty insulting to them, so be prepared for some flak.

Just wanted to make sure I wasn't misunderstood.
I didn't want to imply someone was trying to say two things at once. Just that some good breeding rats can come from anywhere. It's almost individual rats that make good breeders.

I agree with the telling the truth.
No one I know that breeds ball pythons would want to sell their baby hatchlings to someone to use as a feeder snake. So how would you feel to know that someone bought some for that?
Now, how would you feel if they bought your snakes to BREED babies to feed?
While I wouldn't want to sell my babies as feeders, I don't mind selling them as breeders. But that's ME with MY animals. If I buy from someone else, I try to abide with what THEY want.

well said wolfy.. thats what i was trying to get across.

If you do want to breed, I don't see what's wrong with buying rats from a breeder. You'd seemingly be better off paying more, than going to a pet store which has a high turnover rats of animals, and little to no quarantine. I would read up on megacolon and the risks with breeding bicolored, mostly-white rats.
I feel kind of funny about someone telling me what I can or can't do with an animal that I have purchased. IMO, once it is mine, it is mine. If I want to breed it, spay/neuter it, or eat it, that would be my perogative if done humanely and in keeping with proper husbandry, etc. If someone does not want their sold animal bred, I think that they should get it spayed/neutered.. Now, in rescue situations, I can somewhat understand. Like with horses; some rescuers make an adoptee sign a waiver that allows them to come over and inspect the animal's living conditions, etc. at any time after and before the horse is adopted. Since this is something that the adoptee agrees on, when adopting, then I see nothing wrong with that. Yet, if I gave someone my word on not breeding their sold rat, I would not breed it. This is just not an honest practice; lying. Think of your reputation if the seller found out. But I would not give my word if I did not mean to keep it.
Breeding rats for snake food is something of a science. Not breeding in itself; that is the easy part IMO. But getting it to a point where you always have babies. So that all females are not having babies all at once and creating a glut sometimes, and then a famine for weeks ahead. Unless you euthanize, freeze and feed f/t; that would simplify timing.
I would definately start out with subadults that were never bred, and kept seperate by sex and size. You should then grow them to breeding size before mating them. Getting adults sometimes means that you're just getting someone else's washed-up breeders.
If the breeder gives you grief, I would pass and find rats from another source. Look for clear eyes, fat and sleek, but not overfat, rats. Active but not paranoid. No missing fur or scabs. I would research Myco as well and be wary of redness/discharge around the rats' eyes. From what I read, Myco is carried by all rats but gets inflamed under stress even in ideal conditions but more likely in subpar conditions. It is exhibited by sneezing and red eye discharge (looks like blood, but these are the rats' tears.)
Any more questions, please ask. I could go on and on but if there's anything specific, please do tell!

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

I think the point needs made, and Wolfy touched on it in her post, that breeding your own feeders is not always just about saving money on your feeding costs.

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It surely is not! Factoring in time spent to clean cages.. feed mixing and preparation. Storage and living space for rats and their requirements. Bedding costs and potential disposal costs.
I do save money breeding rats, generally. But the odd month comes along that I have to buy some feeders to supplement what I produce; or I would have hungry snakes. I am going to do the math and see just what the numbers come out to.

I really appreciate all this information. Lord knows I lurk around enough of these message boards I should eventually find what I am looking for somewhere if she has a problem with it. I am not really worried about it. I just don't want to breed pet store rats. I am inexperienced with rats and I don't know what I am looking for or at. I just thought that if I went to a breeder it would be much safer for me.

Thanks for all the input. I will continue to lurk around and glean information as I can. You all have already been a big help and that doesn't even include in this thread.

No one told me directly in any post to lie about anything. This is just about the first post I have made yet that was directly related to buying rats for breeding. I have just gotten the impression from others here and on other sites that it might not be a good idea to disclose that a person owns snakes if buying from a breeder. As this woman sells to pet shops which is how I met her.. my guess is that she isn't overly worried about it as I am sure I won't be the first to purchase some for the reasons I want them. I would rather buy directly from her than from the pet shop. I will make sure I ask to be completely honest if its a problem I will look elsewhere. I am sure I will find what I am looking for eventually. I have lots of time.

Thanks again