Misting with chlorhexadine solution

I'm having a bit of trouble convincing nixer that this is a bad idea.

He keeps wanting to know why. I've explained that any kind of disinfecant should not be inhaled and can be dangerous, and that plain water only should be used for misting, but he's not convinced.

What do you think? Would you do it?

NEVER! Misting a tank with a disinfectant?? Why on earth would he be convinced that would be a good thing?

Cleaning the tank with that stuff is great. Misting is for humidity and should ONLY involve straight water!

He is on the road to giving that snake an RI or something worse if he continues spraying the cage all the time with disinfectants of any kind...

and i asked what will happen but all this certain basher does is say not to like i asked what could or would happen and even then perhaps someone should edit their original post will all the supposed information and just just try to start some big fight in the forum

Ok, ok... keep it calm here.

If you use a disinfectant on anything while the animal is still around, it would be pretty much the same as if you added the stuff to your drinking water or to a mister you used on yourself in summer. Inhaling the fumes, no matter how diluted, can damage the windpipe and lung tissue to varying degrees. In humans, it can do anything from give you a really bad cough, sorethroat, and headache, to bad lung damage if used continuously. With a snake, that is more sensitive to airborne particles than humans are, it can give them Respiratory Infections (RI) and damage the tissues of their air passages.

That's what can happen if you mist with a disinfectant. And the more you do it, the more damage you can cause the snake and yourself (because you breath it in as well).
When misting for humidity, all you need is regular water.

Just to clarify the level of "bashing". :-)

Quote:

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12-22-07 03:43 AM nixer
has anyone misted a cage with a little chlorhexidine in the mist water

12-22-07 01:24 PM slartibartfast
Do -not- mist with Chlorhex, or any disinfectant. They are not intended to be inhaled. All disinfectants should be wiped off from all surfaces before the snake is replaced.

12-22-07 01:46 PM nixer
even 2%

12-22-07 01:56 PM slartibartfast
Yes, absolutely.

12-22-07 01:58 PM slartibartfast
Chemicals should not be inhaled, seriously. That should be obvious.

12-22-07 02:16 PM nixer
and it has been tryed by whom?

12-22-07 02:54 PM slartibartfast
You know, I got the same question from a guy who wanted me to give his dog an IV injection of bleach to treat a fatal viral condition.

12-22-07 02:55 PM slartibartfast
Some things should just be common sense, really.

12-22-07 02:58 PM nixer
thats nothing even close to what i said

12-22-07 03:00 PM slartibartfast
"Because nobody's ever tried it"

12-22-07 03:01 PM slartibartfast
Chlorhexidine is a strong chemical. It's safe to use on skin, if rinsed off. It should not be applied to delicate membranes, such as the entire lining of the respiratory tract, which is what would happen if you misted your snake's enclosure with it, while the snake was present.

12-22-07 03:07 PM nixer
who said the snake would be present

12-22-07 03:10 PM slartibartfast
Misting is used to raise the humidity of the cage. Water should be used. Disinfectents are not appropriate to be used for misting.

12-22-07 03:11 PM slartibartfast
If you are cleaning the cage, spray down with chlorhex, then wipe it out again.

12-22-07 03:11 PM slartibartfast
Before the snake is put back in the cage.

12-22-07 03:21 PM nixer
why

12-22-07 03:21 PM nixer
you say no but have no reason why

12-22-07 03:21 PM nixer
i want to know what harm it will cause

12-22-07 03:28 PM slartibartfast
Because it can cause tissue damage, respiratory distress, lung failure, and death.

12-22-07 03:28 PM slartibartfast
Do you need more reasons?

12-22-07 03:31 PM slartibartfast
It's not hard to wipe out...it takes maybe an extra 30 seconds to run a paper towel over it and then a few minutes to air dry. It's not hard.

12-22-07 03:34 PM nixer
yes i want facts not because so and so said so

12-22-07 03:35 PM nixer
its funn the msds doesnt say all of that

12-22-07 03:36 PM slartibartfast
Really?

12-22-07 03:36 PM slartibartfast
What does it say about inhalation?

12-22-07 03:38 PM nixer
could be an irratant

12-22-07 03:38 PM slartibartfast
What do you think an irritant does when it covers the entire interal surface of the lungs?

12-22-07 03:39 PM slartibartfast
This is really more of a husbandry question, and should be adressed in a thread anyway. I've started one...let's move the discussion there.

12-22-07 03:41 PM nixer
actually its really not

12-22-07 03:42 PM slartibartfast
Actually, it is.

12-22-07 03:42 PM slartibartfast
"Should I mist my cage with chlorhex" is pretty much entirely a husbandry discussion.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Argentra

Ok, ok... keep it calm here.

If you use a disinfectant on anything while the animal is still around, it would be pretty much the same as if you added the stuff to your drinking water or to a mister you used on yourself in summer. Inhaling the fumes, no matter how diluted, can damage the windpipe and lung tissue to varying degrees. In humans, it can do anything from give you a really bad cough, sorethroat, and headache, to bad lung damage if used continuously. With a snake, that is more sensitive to airborne particles than humans are, it can give them Respiratory Infections (RI) and damage the tissues of their air passages.

That's what can happen if you mist with a disinfectant. And the more you do it, the more damage you can cause the snake and yourself (because you breath it in as well).
When misting for humidity, all you need is regular water.

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first off the animal is removed!
2nd there is more than one chlorhexidine mixture
3 where do you get it will cause an ri or any of that. did you try it or know someone who has.
its funny how many posts we see here no dont do this or that when alot of ppl that come here really dont even have a clue! other than someone told them not to or it wasnt a good idea baseless and thats that dont come here and tell me that i want fact not because some idiot (thread starter) says so.

And the relevant section of the MSDS, just for good measure:

Quote:

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Section 8:
Exposure Controls/Personal ProtectionEngineering Controls:
Use process enclosures, local exhaust ventilation, or other engineering controls to keep airborne levels below recommended exposure limits. If user operations generate dust, fume or mist, use ventilation to keep exposure toairborne contaminants below the exposure limit.

Personal Protection:
Splash goggles. Lab coat. Dust respirator. Be sure to use an approved/certified respirator or equivalent.Gloves.

Personal Protection in Case of a Large Spill:
Splash goggles. Full suit. Dust respirator. Boots. Gloves. A self contained breathing apparatus should be used
to avoid inhalation of the product. Suggested protective clothing might not be sufficient; consult a specialist BEFORE handling this product.

Exposure Limits:
Not available

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by slartibartfast

And the relevant section of the MSDS, just for good measure:

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thats the wrong msds you idiot like i said get the correct info thats not for the 2% solution anyway perhaps you should sit back and learn something you moron

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nixer

thats the wrong msds you idiot like i said get the correct info thats not for the 2% solution anyway perhaps you should sit back and learn something you moron

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Easy now. Just because I'm not giving you answers you want is not an excuse to call names.

What exactly is the name of the solution you are using? There are a variety of chlorhexes.

Well, let's put it another way then... Let's put you in a plastic container, spray you down with disinfectant, and then seal the container shut. How would YOU like it? Don't think it'd be all that comfy for you, no matter how diluted the solution was...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by slartibartfast

Easy now. Just because I'm not giving you answers you want is not an excuse to call names.

What exactly is the name of the solution you are using? There are a variety of chlorhexes.

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oh now you say there is different one like i said you dont have a clue and thats that end of topic.

i want facts and thats it you dont have them then dont answer like you know whats your even talking about.

oh and for ladywhipples post im sure it will be deleted due to stupidity

*grin* I've been using it professionally in veterinary hospitals for the last 5 years. There are several different chlorhex compounds. None of them are safe to be inhaled.
I was just curious which one you are using. Do you know the name of it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by slartibartfast

*grin* I've been using it professionally in veterinary hospitals for the last 5 years. There are several different chlorhex compounds. None of them are safe to be inhaled.
I was just curious which one you are using. Do you know the name of it?

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yes i do and im not telling you because as far as im concerned your posts are all garbage you want to start a flame war putting your .02 in and dont even have all the information gee thats too bad ill just call a real professional vet not some stupid unprofessional vet tech and ask

Wow Nixer. Insulting two respected forum members in one thread. You seem like you want to get banned or something.. what is productive about bashing another member who just tried to help you and your snake.. who is a vet tech and works with the stuff you're asking about?

Honey, you are quickly digging your hole deeper. Jess is a very reputable source around here... and you're name-calling is running your reptutation into the ground. I wouldn't believe anything you told me now even if it had a bow wrapped around it.

Jess has quite a bit more knowledge than you... she has helped me through a couple veterinary issues, some not even dealing with snakes.

Methinks you are upset because you are wrong... and, as far as I'm concerned, voluntary ignorance (and being unwilling to learn anything new) is one of the biggest sins there is. I would even go so far as to call it the definition of "stupidity".

nixer, please refrain from name-calling. the information that is being presented here is completetly relavant and done so as to be informative to the topic. if you do not wish to discuss this topic in a reasonable manner then please refrain from posting in this thread.

Bottom line here: There are most likely no records of exactly what any dilution of any form of chlorex would do to any reptile because NO ONE would ever try such a thing. Have you ever inhaled a cleaner, even a dilute one, while cleaning your home? It burns your throat, makes you cough a lot, and gives you a headache. Now, imagine a snake being put back into an enclosure where disinfectant was sprayed on everything. Even if it dried on the hides and such, it would still be in the substrate which is what they spend most of their time resting on. NO form of disinfectant is safe to use while decor and substrate are still in the cage. Period.

Now, if you continue arguing and name-calling, it will be all but proven that you started this just to rile people up. Kindly take the advice given by experienced people and refrain from making waves.

It is well within a person's rights to disagree with another person on any subject, including well intentioned unsolicited advice (even good advice). It is wholly inappropriate to refer to people as stupid ignorant bashers whom are trying to start a flame war because this advice doesn't conform with what you would like to hear. The only mitigating circumstance that may exist would be if you have not yet attained adulthood.

Just for further clarifying, we were discussing this in chat as well a few days ago. He has chlorhexidine gluconate. 2%. It may still be in the archive. I made the mistake of pulling the msds for the diacetate. Still, i think the same applies. Why put the animal at risk? I recommend calling a vet or the manufacturer of the product.
If it's for cleaning, that's one thing, but why not just use it as intended?

I believe (and could be wrong) that the fumes from misting with Chlorhex can have similar effects as the fumes from bleach. When fume levels increase it can cause neurological and chemical problems with your snakes brain. Causing them to get head jerks, and symptoms similar to seizures.

Not 100% positive but have heard of several cases where this has occurred.


Take it, or leave it...no skin off my back.

Good Luck with what ever way you choose to clean.

Given that he asked in public chat if it was safe to use for misting, I hardly consider it unsolicited advice.

Here are a few quotes from the MSDS for chlorhexidine gluconate:

Quote:

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Section 3: Hazards Identification
Potential Acute Health Effects:
Very hazardous in case of ingestion.
Hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant), of eye contact (irritant), of inhalation.
Non-corrosive for skin.
Non-sensitizer for skin.
Non-permeator by skin.

Potential Chronic Health Effects:
Very hazardous in case of ingestion.
Hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant), of eye contact (irritant), of inhalation.
Non-corrosive for skin.
Non-sensitizer for skin.
Non-permeator by skin.
CARCINOGENIC EFFECTS: Not available.
MUTAGENIC EFFECTS: Not available.
TERATOGENIC EFFECTS: Not available.
DEVELOPMENTAL TOXICITY: Not available.
The substance is toxic to lungs, mucous membranes. Repeated or prolonged exposure to the substance can produce target organs damage.

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Quote:

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Section 7:
Handling and Storage
Precautions:Keep away from heat. Keep away from sources of ignition. Empty containers pose a fire risk, evaporate the residue under a fume hood. Ground all equipment containing material. Do not ingest. Do not breathe gas/fumes/vapour/spray. Wear suitable protective clothing In case of insufficient ventilation, wear suitable respiratory equipment. If ingested, seek medical advice immediately and show the container or the label. Avoid contact with skin and eyes
Storage:Keep container dry. Keep in a cool place. Ground all equipment containing material. Keep container tightlyclosed. Keep in a cool, well-ventilated place. Combustible materials should be stored away from extreme heat and away from strong oxidizing agents.

Section 8:
Exposure Controls/Personal Protection
Engineering Controls:
Provide exhaust ventilation or other engineering controls to keep the airborne concentrations of vapors below their respective threshold limit value. Ensure that eyewash stations and safety showers are proximal to the work-station location.
Personal Protection:
Splash goggles. Lab coat. Vapor respirator. Be sure to use an approved/certified respirator or equivalent. Gloves.
Personal Protection in Case of a Large Spill:Splash goggles. Full suit. Vapor respirator. Boots. Gloves. A self contained breathing apparatus should be used to avoid inhalation of the product. Suggested protective clothing might not be sufficient; consult a specialist BEFORE handling this product.
Exposure Limits: Not available.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by slartibartfast

Given that he asked in public chat if it was safe to use for misting, I hardly consider it unsolicited advice.






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I'm just sayin' and junk.

Personally, I think that with the amount of people suggesting not to use the disinfectant, that he would have just said "ok" by now. The fact that he's still arguing with everyone, even when valid points are made is just proof that he doesn't really care one way or the other about the snake.

If there was any question whatsoever about the safety of a product or a procedure, I wouldn't even risk the health of my snake. The fact that he's willing to put his animal at risk only to prove that a cleaner can be used as a misting element is just ridiculous. It speaks volumes in my book. I wouldn't even bother arguing any further.

I just don't understand why he's so dead-set on this. Why is it so important? And what gave him the idea to even start the whole misting with disinfectant procedure anyway? What did he think was to be gained from it? I mean, why bother? It's just costing more money to purchase the cleaner to mix with the water, and creating a problem in the forums. I don't see what good could come of it in any direction...

thats still the wrong msds!
and for all of your information i never did it in the first place! i just wanted to know what would happen.

and i care for my animals much more than most ppl here and i sure spend more time with them as well considering workload.

continue to flame me i got a real fact answer from a real herp vet and thats that.

out of curiosity, what was the answer? If you don't mind sharing.

Are you sure you were born in 77? Not 97?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nixer

and i care for my animals much more than most ppl here and i sure spend more time with them as well considering workload.

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Don't make judgements against people you don't even know. You have no idea how much time Jess spends with her animals, you have no idea how much I work, and you have no idea how much any of us care for our animals---apparently, you don't know any of us AT ALL if you think we care less for our animals that you.

What was the answer, anyway... did the "knowledgable" vet tell you the exact same thing Jess did?

Wow Nixer, you seem to have some serious issues. You have a bunch of name calling in this thread like you are a 14 year old at recess. Just calm down or go somewhere else.

As far as misting with a disinfectant, would you put disinfectant in your kid's humidifier, just because it might be ok. Why would you want anyone or anything to inhale more chemicals than there already are in the air.

Wow......

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nixer

thats still the wrong msds!
and for all of your information i never did it in the first place! i just wanted to know what would happen.

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I see so it's a hypothetical "just want to know what would happen"

On that note, can anyone tell me what would happen if I filled my office with gasoline and played with matches. NOT THAT I'M GOING TO DO IT, but hey, I just wanted to know what would happen.

I'd hope you could figure out on your own that it's not a good idea; and your wondering what could happen might as well be kept to yourself if you are going to insult everyone like an angry 14 year old.

Nixer, since you choose not to listen when a member advises you that you are asking an obvious husbandry question in chat when it's in bold green and simple words at the top of chat to NOT have husbandry discussions there...how about you listen to me.

Do NOT ask husbandry questions in chat. They are to be addressed in the appropriate forum. This is covered, as I mentioned, in the large, green words you can't miss at the top of the chat box, this is also covered in a sticky on chat. Continued misuse of the chat system can and will get you blocked from access to it.

Next, you may disagree with anything you like. You may not disagree by calling any member disrespectful names, either in threads or in chat. This it not a rule for you, it's a rule for all of us and all of us are expected to follow it or lose certain privileges of this site. That's simple, that's clear and that's not negotiable.

If you prefer to receive all your husbandry advice from your vet, feel free to pick up the phone and place that call Nixer but don't complain and attack people when they give you an answer you don't care for. It's an open forum, you're going to get answers you don't like or don't wish to follow the advice given, that's your choice but that choice does not include this sort of rude response.

As for the other members posting here, Nixer is being cautioned to not become rude and abrasive in his responses. I'd ask you each to read what you wrote and make sure you are not stirring this pot further and in need of your own caution. Age is NOT a issue and to insult someone by inferring they are younger, insults every teenage member here that is doing a great job with their snakes. You may disagree with Nixer but keep it respectful.

I woulnd't use any disinfectant other than 3% H202 (Hydrogen peroxide) solution since it leaves no residue and simply evaporates just like water. However care should be taken not to get any of it on the reptile since it may cause oxygen burns on the skin and pulmonary irrittation when inhaled (risk of RI). Caution sholud be excercised making sure everything is completely dry and the enclosure thoroughly ventilated before you replace the snake. Do not use it on the substrate since it can be absorbed . With all the above precautions it is safe to use it otherwise :colbert::colbert::colbert:

Not sure exactly why you'd want to use a disinfectant in your misting water... I have used chlorhexidine for flushing infected belly tissues, but I never put my snakes in a position of actually inhaling the stuff. I've inhaled it personally at work, and it really isn't a pleasant experience.

Hydrogen peroxide isn't a disinfectant, I have no clue where you get your information..(SPELLCHECK por favor) :confused: Peroxide is really only good to get blood out of clothes as far as I'm concerned.

If I ever have to mist, I use tap water or distilled water. If I want to disinfect, I use Parv-O-Way/Parvosol, Chlorhexidine or a 10% bleach solution. Chlorhexidine really gets the stuck urates out easily, so it's what I use most of the time. I have also sprayed myself with Parvosol/Parv-O-Way if I have an animal in quarantine(rats or snakes) as it will kill pretty much everything.

And breathing in any disinfectant is not a pleasant thing, it burns and makes your eyes water, and makes you short of breath. For an animal that can't cough or sneeze(easily anyway), why would you even want to expose them to those chemicals?