Switching from glass to tub

Cooler looking, and humidity won me over.
Plus my snake is too worried about whats going on outside the tank.
What do you suggest for color of the tank? i have white opaque, or a darker color. do you suggest a low to the ground tub or like a foot to a foot and a half?

Remember its a baby... about a foot and a half to 2 feet.

plz reply asap.

Most use the opaque tubs....Most also use the shorter tubs because ball pythons are ground dwelling and don't necessarily need the height.

okay can i take a pic of a few tubs we have, you tell me what you like the best? for a baby ball python

NVM, My mom said shed take me to walmart and buy me one tommorow, what size do you suggest for a baby, also do baby ball pythons grow fast? and will it only grow as big as its tank? or does the size of the tank not have an effect on it what so ever?

Your snake will grow as big as it's gender, it's genetics and good feeding allow it to grow. Enclosure size is not going to affect that one bit (old myth).

If it's a small baby snake, you could probably get a nice 15 qt tub for less than $5.00 at Walmart - Rubbermaid or Sterlite. If it's bigger than that, go a bit bigger in tub size. Make sure to grab a box if big black binder clips and put them around the lid, don't depend on the clips on the lid to hold your snake in. All snakes are escape artists, baby snakes even more so.

When you look for tubs look for more ground space than height. Ball pythons don't use the height much and it's easier to retain stable heat and humidity if the tub is not full of wasted top space. All of our tubs are about 6.5 inches high and they hold everything from small 07 hatchlings up to fully adult female snakes.

You'll also need a simple soldering wand or a drill to put in ventilation holes for the snake. As well of course hides and a heavy but small water dish (no need for it to be so big as ball pythons do not soak in their dishes but they sure do tip them).

Tubs are very reasonably priced, when your snake is ready to move up, you can then spend less than 10 dollars to get a new tub and bigger hides, everything else (dish, heating source, etc.) can just move over with the snake to it's new home. Hides can be as simple as a dark plastic cereal bowl with an entrance hole cut or melted in. Snakes do not particularily care if their hide is fancy as long as it's dark, tight fitted and for you, easy to clean.

thnks much!

I would go with a 12qt tub!!:gj:

well the tank cant be too small, just small enough, for a cold and hot temp spot.

You can use whatever size you want... I just dont reccommend going higher than 66qt... I keep all my hatchlings in 60-66qts and have no problems. All of my snakes climb regardless of their age so I always offer more room and something to climb on... Its your choice what size you want to use... heating a 66qt is no different than a 12. Check out my gallery and I have pics of a simple 66qt tub set up.

Babies do best in 15 quart tubs - here's how all my babies are set-up. Too much open space does stress them out.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...b/BabyRack.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...ub/BabyTub.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...b/BabyTub2.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...b/PretzelA.jpg

That baby is now in her own 41 quart tub (still a little big for her, but she's pretty easy going)

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...PretJune19.jpg

wouldnt a 66 stress him out? way too big right?

Dont believe everything people tell you... All 11 of my snakes are in tubs "too big for snakes" according to a lot of people on this site and I have zero problems. As long as you have 2 hides a water dish and the right temps/humidity youll be fine. Dont you think atleast one of my 11 snakes would be "stressed out" if that statment were true? Temps and humidity and snug hides are most important... The only reason I use such big tubs are bc i provide something for them to climb on which means my tubs need to be taller... check out my pics... the size comparison is no different that the pics recently posted. Theres no proof that babies do "better" in smaller tubs.

Here is how I do it if that helps

Up to 500 grams – 15 Quarts

Up to 1500 grams – 32 Quarts

Above 1500 grams – 41 Quarts

And remember the most important is floor space not height

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

Theres no proof that babies do "better" in smaller tubs.

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That has not been my personal experience, nor that of countless others. They DO do better in smaller enclosures. It's wonderful it works for you. Kudos!

Not sure why you take it so personally when smaller enclosures are recommended.

I dont take it personally I just dont like people getting filled with incorrect information such as "too big itll stress it out"... Im just curious what your snakes "do better" than mine??... Why do you take it personal when I reccomend large enclosures? Its been my experience that they do just fine in larger enclosures so I will always reccommend it to newbies... not everyone wants to keep their snakes in a tiny box... some like to allow them room to move w/o going through their own piss n poop.

Weren't you also recommending glass tanks as better to newbies just a year ago?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

I dont take it personally... Im just curious what your snakes "do better" than mine??... Why do you take it personal when I reccomend large enclosures? Its been my experience that they do just fine in larger enclosures so I will always reccommend it to newbies... not everyone wants to keep their snakes in a tiny box... some like to allow them room to move w/o going through their own piss n poop.

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And the point you keep missing Josh is the fact that most people who are barely starting in this hobby (which seems to be the case according to the previous post) will not likely recognize signs of stress which is why based on experience people will always recommend smaller tighter enclosure.

Once experienced should the person experiment? Absolutely if that is what they want, this way they will find out what work best for them however until they gain this experience they should play it on the safe side to avoid further problems.

OOOo Robin you really got me with that one? I love how your little pun has NOTHING to do with this post and might I add it was over a year ago? I think its time you move on.

When will you guys realize that you dont HAVE to keep your snakes in a small enclosure for them to be happy? I was a newbie when I started using 66qt tubs... and never had a problem since I made the switch to tubs... what makes you think this kids gonna have a problem??

I think the problem is that most newbies are already having difficulties providing the right environment for their snakes. To recommend a large enclosure is to give that newbie even more responsibility and make it harder to try and maintain the right requirements. So when giving advice I try to give the best advice that is a both easily achievable and best for the snake. I will agree with you that temps, humidity, and security are first on the list and size of the enclosure comes into play after that.

I agree with you rich... humidity pretty much controls itself in a tub and heat can be maintained easily by a heat pad and thermostat. Its not like I told this kid to use a 55 gal glass tank.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

I dont take it personally I just dont like people getting filled with incorrect information such as "too big itll stress it out"... Im just curious what your snakes "do better" than mine??... Why do you take it personal when I reccomend large enclosures? Its been my experience that they do just fine in larger enclosures so I will always reccommend it to newbies... not everyone wants to keep their snakes in a tiny box... some like to allow them room to move w/o going through their own piss n poop.

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I use small tubs and just clean up the piss and poop. That way they don't have to crawl in it and they still feel secure and eat everything I throw at them.

The point, that you missed Josh, is that you were just as convinced a year ago that glass was better than plastic (and with more experience with it, you changed your mind) as you are today that larger is better than smaller.

Recommend 60 quart tubs if you'd like, but don't be offended when others choose to disgree with you and recommend smaller tubs to newer keepers. Refer to Deborah's bolded part of her reply.

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

I use small tubs and just clean up the piss and poop. That way they don't have to crawl in it and they still feel secure and eat everything I throw at them.

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:D:gj:

I dont care that you reccommend small tubs... i care when you give out false information such as a 66 qt tub will stress out a baby. I never said larger was BETTER... I believe it was you who said smaller is BETTER... I still havent gotten a response back to whats "better" about your snakes so I assume your answer is nothing... All Im saying is a 66qt aint too big... these animals live in the wild ... wheres there 12qt wall preventing them from roaming in the wild? "they spend the majority of their time in small holes"... yea and they spend the majority of their time in the hide so what does that have anything to do with "too much space?" I dont mind you reccommending smaller tubs bc they work for you... but saying theyre "better" makes you look ignorant.

Josh please don't take this as an attack but I do feel that the level of experience that you boost about may be found wanting when measured with that of members that you are disagreeing with. For example stress in ball pythons can be a quick or slow progression.

Now with that being said out of the 11 snakes you boast about doing fine how many of them have been in your care more than a year. By my count at least five of them have been with you less than 6 months and three of those less than 2 months. So how many have been in your care for more than a year and house in nothing but 66qt tubs?? I have had established animals well eating animals stress months after an enclosure change as simple as using newspaper instead of aspen?????. Please understand that the advice we give is a combination come to after years even decades of experience keeping ...successfully I might say these animals for years.

The advice we offer for newbes is structured so that they can enjoy these animals with little to no problems. To say that you can't keep a ball python in a 66qt tub is not true you can keep one in a bath tub maybe even for along time. Is it the easiest and least stressful manner to do so..no.

Being a small bodied ground dwelling nocturnal animal that's natural habitat is ground burrows and termite mounds. Large open areas with lots of head room and light even if its just to travel from hide to hide is stressfull..Why you might as ..BECAUSE THEY THINK THEIR GOING TO GET EATEN.

Please understand that when we give advice it is not the only way to do things even we are still learning new things about these animals needs but it is the easiest way to achieve the long term goal of keeping these animals.

So I can say with years thats YEARS of experience keeping many of these animals for years. That a 66qt tub will stress a ball python baby.

OK so in two years with no issues will you allow me to say that they can be kept in larger enclosures?> So in your long history of keeping BPs how many times did you set up a 66qt tub for a baby and test it out? How many times did you stray from the norm of a 12qt tub and try something new? Im going to guess prolly very few times if ever... set up a 66qt for your next baby... try it out... then come back to me... Ill bet you all 11 of my snakes you dont have a problem as long as proper heat/humidity is met... To say a 66qt tub is too big is rediculous.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

OK so in two years with no issues will you allow me to say that they can be kept in larger enclosures?> So in your long history of keeping BPs how many times did you set up a 66qt tub for a baby and test it out? How many times did you stray from the norm of a 12qt tub and try something new? Im going to guess prolly very few times if ever... set up a 66qt for your next baby... try it out... then come back to me... Ill bet you all 11 of my snakes you dont have a problem as long as proper heat/humidity is met... To say a 66qt tub is too big is rediculous.

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Your right my animals mean to much to me to risk it not working and compromising their health

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

OK so in two years with no issues will you allow me to say that they can be kept in larger enclosures

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I never said they couldn't I said it wasn't the ideal set up for them.

what about your backround gives you the right to say "ideal"... you have a degree in zoology or done personal studies that have been posted in a magazine or something? Im going to guess the answer is no just like you not trying to house them in anything other than 12qt. I always thought ideal snake requirements were 2 snug hides... temps between 78-83 cool and 88-95 warm... humidity above 50%... I didnt know there was an "ideal" size.. i stick to my previous statement... your ignorant.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

what about your backround gives you the right to say "ideal"... you have a degree in zoology or done personal studies that have been posted in a magazine or something? Im going to guess the answer is no just like you not trying to house them in anything other than 12qt... i stick to my previous statement... your ignorant.

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Best of luck :gj:

Your silence says it all...I dont need any luck as all of my snakes are doing great!!. Get lots of exercise and plenty of food. I appreciate your concern though.

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

Your silence says it all...I dont need any luck as all of my snakes are doing great!!. Get lots of exercise and plenty of food. I appreciate your concern though.

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:gj:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

I didnt know there was an "ideal" size.. i stick to my previous statement... your ignorant.

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Shouldn't that be "you're ignorant"? :rolleyes:

Josh, I've been here for a few years now and one common occurrence seems to be new owners that place their baby snake in a large tank and they seem to frequently have feeding problems. When we recommend that they move their snake to a smaller cage and they follow that recommendation, quite often their snake will start feeding again. I'm sure someone out there can do a scientific study that may take years to determine what the ideal cage size for a Ball Python would be, but I will continue to recommend small cages because I have seen numerous people on this site have excellent results by switching to a smaller enclosure.

Now if you have great success with keeping your small snakes in a large cage and you want to keep doling out that advice, then more power to you. Just don't get upset when so many people oppose you who have seen positive results from switching to a smaller cage.

BTW, have you seen the dens that wild Balls live in? Not very roomy...

How many wholes do i put in the plastic thing? ill take pics in a min or the new settup.

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Originally Posted by k1ingdomKaa

How many wholes do i put in the plastic thing? ill take pics in a min or the new settup.

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Drill/melt a couple of holes to start with than place your tub on your UTH, place a dish full of water in the tub as well as your digital Thermometer/ Hygrometer, close the lid and check your temps and humidity.

Once the temps are proper and stable check your humidity, if above 60% add more holes to your tub, than wait again until stabilized and add more holes if necessary.

I guess my house is just extremely dry, because the humidity in he tub is 30%

Larry I never mentioned the word tank... lets get that clear bc a large tank and a large tub are two different things... A 20g long is pretty much the same dimensions as a 60qt so I dont see why everyone seems to think im talking about some gigantic 55 gallon tank. Also people have issues with large TANKS because they do not hold the humidity/heat very well... the snakes don't eat bc the husbandry isn't correct, not because the tank is too big. I believe in my original post I said "as long as proprer husbandry requirements are met."... 99.9% of the problem feeders dont have correct husbadry.


It personally doesnt bother me that you guys oppose me... its your reasoning... Until you've personally set up multiple 60qt tubs like I have, and had repeated failure and problems you cant say "thats too big"... I personally have never set up a 12qt tub for a baby but do you see me on here saying your advice is incorrect and its too small? No you wont find me doing that bc that would be ignorant of me. Speak from your experience not what other people tell you.

Forgot to add... Have you seen the size of the hides I use? ...Not very roomy

hey i started the thread, please answer my question and stop arguing:colbert: it makes me feel bad for gettin you two argueing

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Originally Posted by k1ingdomKaa

hey i started the thread, please answer my question and stop arguing:colbert: it makes me feel bad for gettin you two argueing

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Sorry 'bout that. Try not to worry about it too much. It happens with threads sometimes. If it gets too nasty, we can split the thread and move the nastiness.

About the humidity in the tub. Get it all set up with the heat and substrate, hides and water...run it for a day or two with the lid on and everything, just as if the snake were living in it. And you'll likely see the humidity go up easily. Especially if it's a small tub.

Like Judy said, get your tub up and running and see how it is after a couple of days. If the humidity hasn't gotten up to 50 - 60%, then theres a couple of things from the top of my head you can try. Try moving the water bowl a little over the UTH. That should help warm up the water a little more to increase evaporation to bring up humidity. Just make sure that you change the water a little more often since that could also help bacteria growth in the water, also make sure to clean and sanitize the water bowl. Also, I am not sure what type of substrate you are using, but you could also try using aspen or cypress, those will help boost up the humidity in your tub as well.

its 32 liters, 6 inch high. what is a perfect temp for the hot spot?
I have about 91.0 right now.

as for the other side, i have my heat pad under it and its about 84 and rising slowly, hopefully it stops at like 85
humidity is 32%

Here's my thoughts on your thoughts, Josh.

Cavemen invented a frickin wheel a long time ago. so why re-invent it?

I take the advice from experienced professionals who have a successful history, and I follow it.

Continue on with your "experiments". we'll have instructions for your wheel when you need it :rolleyes:

hey josh was right in some ways, He says that its okay to have a bigg tank, leave him alone, after all hes the one that has helped me the most and also cares. he pmed me telling me that he was worried or w.e

OK - I'm going to bump this. :O

I was at Target today, and I took a look at the Rubbermaid 66 quart tubs (I think those are probably the ones that Josh is using).

I will concede that the floor space is much smaller than I imagined it to be. And while the floor space is a little bigger than I would prefer for a baby, I will agree that it's probably workable if you can succesfully achieve and maintain proper heat and humidity.

The bulk of the size is taken up in height, rather than floor space.

Thanks Robin for finally seeing my side of things... I wouldnt reccommend the 60-66qt if they didnt work. The only reason I use them is bc I offer them something to climb on which takes up more floor space and respectivly more height. If I wasnt offering them something to climb on I wouldnt go with a 60-66qt either...

Nate on your wheel comment... Its called innovation... Just becuase it was invented years ago doesnt mean it cant be improved.

i have a 32 L so im good 6 inches high, and 60 humidity.

Josh, I think as long as we agree to disagree on some things respectfully, it will be all good.

Yes, for someone who wishes to offer climbing branches, then I can see this working.

Tell you what, I'll continue to recommend my way, and not insist it's "better". Can you agree to the same?

Sounds like a great compromise to me!... I guess for me to use the word "better" I need to see some evidence that in some aspect your snakes are "better" than mine... I guess im just picky when it comes to my english:)... Hopefully we can put all this bickering behind us and move forward... I hate being viewed as the jerk bc honestly when you get to know me... thats not me.

from how i know josh, hes not a jerk hes opinionated.

if you decide to drill your holes, be careful not to crack the plastic. If you apply too much pressure when drilling, it may crack. Let the drill do the work and be patient on each hole, it will save you a few trips to Target :)

As far as the enclosure size, I think both parties are correct in a way. If you want to use a large enclosure, clutter it with hides, fake plants, rocks, etc.....make it busy.

When I handle my snakes and place them on the carpet, the first thing they do is head for a covered area....they rarely sit out in the open. This is proof enough to me that they don't feel secure in the open

hth and good luck