Customer service??

Anyone else experience crappy customer service when dealing with breeders? I tried to pick up a clown female off of a breeder and all I asked was for a couple more pics so I could assure that this is the one I want and he tells me last night "he doesnt have time to take pics before he leaves for a show at 2pm friday"... he also tells me the show is 20mins from his house... I email him back "Im really interested in this snake and will probably buy it if you can get me a couple more pics"... He says if "I still have it after the show this weekend ill take some pics" ... Anyone take a look at the price tag on clowns lately?? When someones willing to spend that much $ on a snake and you dont have 5 mins to get pics taken what kind of customer service is that? This breeder is pretty big... has alot for sale on Kingsnake... wont say his name but whatever ive gotten pretty crappy customer service and makes me wonder how some people even manage to sell their snakes.

Scumbag:mad:

What some people don't understand is how busy some of these breeders are. Just because the show is 20 minutes from his house doesn't mean it won't take the same time to prep for as one that is 20 hours away. Also due to the price of clowns breeders can't take every request for pics as a serious inquiry on the animal. I can understand both sides of the fence but my suggestion would be to step it up and if you are really serious drop a deposit on it. To a breeder when you say "I'm really interested in this snake and will probably buy it if you can get me a couple more pics" that screams "I'm wasting your time". Just my two cents

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by juddb

Scumbag:mad:

---

First let me say I know nothing about this particular breeder or situation but I would add that calling him a scumbag may not be fair. Taking pictures takes time...camera and equipment setup (not everyone does quick pics), a cooperative snake (not always easy), photoshopping (crop and watermarking)...on top of this if he is a large breeder he may get hundreds of requests for pictures (from people with no intent to purchase or only a passing intent.) Most breeders I know won't send just a quick crappy picture (esp. of a $3000+ snake) they want the animal to look its best so you buy it.

Now I am not saying it couldn't be handled better but if you are a big breeder (who pry still has a day job), getting packed up to head to a show(including this particular snake), you may just not have time...he did offer to take the picture once he gets back.

I could be wrong but I would give him the benefit of the doubt before I jumped the calling him names...or at least try and see it from his side.

What I think is completely dumb is why do you post pics of a snake thats for sale and only have one on your comp?? To me Id snap like 10 of every snake for sale and leave it sitting on your camera or computer... someone asks for pics and bam you got em. Either way I dont care what he has in store for his day... Can you afford to turn down 4k? I dont care how big of a breeder I am or what I have going on... If someone wants to buy a snake for that much. I'm workin with him getting em what he wants. You cant lable every customer just bc "most" arn't serious... this is a prime example... you put this customer in that category and now im buying from someone else... Why do i wanna put down a deposit to someone whose come across like hes too good to get me pics? Atleast respond with something more than 1 line I mean cmon... I dont think ANY of this is irrational from a customer stand point... some these snake breeders need to take some business classes.

How do i give HIM the benefit of the doubt when IM the customer?? Who loses here... He blows me off... takes the snake to the show and it sells... he made out... I GOT SCREWED bc i showed interest first... Or he goes to the show the snake doesnt sell and he sells its to me "now that he has time" I told him exactly how i felt and i will buy from someone else... simple as that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoshJP7

What I think is completely dumb is why do you post pics of a snake thats for sale and only have one on your comp?? To me Id snap like 10 of every snake for sale and leave it sitting on your camera or computer... someone asks for pics and bam you got em. Either way I dont care what he has in store for his day... Can you afford to turn down 4k? I dont care how big of a breeder I am or what I have going on... If someone wants to buy a snake for that much. I'm workin with him getting em what he wants. You cant lable every customer just bc "most" arn't serious... this is a prime example... you put this customer in that category and now im buying from someone else... Why do i wanna put down a deposit to someone whose come across like hes too good to get me pics? Atleast respond with something more than 1 line I mean cmon... I dont think ANY of this is irrational from a customer stand point... some these snake breeders need to take some business classes.

---

Well that is the nice benefit to a free economy...you have the absolute right not to care about what he says and take your money elsewhere. Since you have a bad feeling about him move on. I have yet to see an ugly clown so I am sure you will end up with a stellar new baby. Can't wait to see pics. ;)

I think that if you feel like you're getting blown off, then move on.

On the flip side, yes a professional breeder is VERY busy. I can't say I know from experience, but i've talked on the phone and learned a few things, and I've also learned how to be very patient. The above statement about the time it takes to take pictures is absolutely true, especially good pictures. 9 out of the 10 pictures you would take, Josh, would be no good..therefore, you're left with only one good picture that looks good. Good photography isn't easy, nor is it cheap. Add to that, loading the pictures, making color corrections, resizing, watermarking, saving, uploading, sending.....it simply takes time.

:twocents: Move along to someone who will give you the customer service you desire, or give the breeder the benefit of the doubt and let him get back to you after the weekend. If he sells it, tough. You're not out a single penny...there are a hundred other breeders trying to sell a clown this year.

I beg to differ that its "tough to take good pics"... I can snap like 10 with my gf 300$ digital camera and get atleast 7 good pics... I didnt ask him to take it to walmart and get professional photos... I simply wanted a couple different views... thats it ... not hard... "It takes time" what?? Have you uploaded pics lately on a comp? I can take a pic and have it on the computer in less than 2mins... you plug the cord into the comp and hit upload... go to your email account... attach the file... and boom you just made yourself 4gs....

Like you all said ill just take my business elsewhere.

I had a lot of crappy service when looking for my spider. A lot of breeders just didn't seem to care and I moved on until I found someone who was willing to work with me.

Granted it isn't that hard to take a few pictures for $4,000, but some people don't have their priorities straight.

One thing to keep in mind...is that most of the breeders out there, even many of the "big" ones....are NOT people trained or experienced in running a business. And let's face it...it's very common for people that are into reptiles to have less-than-stellar people-skills. Combine those two characteristics, and you get crummy customer service, even from someone who is honest and has no intention of ripping anyone off.

As noted previously....it IS a free market and you're well within your right to take your business elsewhere. And well within your right to feel put-off or offended by the lack of service you received. But I think you'd be doing yourself a huge favor by being willing to realize that not everyone is going to conduct their business exactly the way YOU would conduct yours if you had one. If those are the only kind of people you'd be willing to spend your money with...then that's your perogative, of course. But that doesn't make everyone else a "bad guy."

And also, I'd like to note...while YOU are fully aware of how serious you were about spending that much money on one of his snakes....HE can't possibly know that. You have no idea how many "serious" requests he probably gets on a daily basis....or how often he's dropped what he was doing to take pictures for a "serious" customer, only to not make the sale after all. So, in the extreme busy-ness of getting ready for show, I personally don't find it at all unusual or unprofessional for him to not take you as seriously as you feel he should have.

So judy you think its fair for him to blow me off and say ill get to you after the show "if" it doesnt sell? How about something like is this a serious inquiry?? are you willing to put down a deposit... ive had a lot of requests for pictures and no1 buys?... If i got this response i woulda been more than happy... But when you get "if i still have her when the shows over ill send you pics".... Thats it... Thats all i got back... not a "thank you have a nice day" or anything... I dunno i cant complain bc it comes down to these people are my competitors in the future... if they wanna handle their business like clowns then go for it... just gonna make it easier for me to sell my snakes bc im going to give EVERY potential customer the time they need... I see a lot of excuses that could be avoided by spending 2mins writing an email explaining what the deal is... But like Judy said most people dont have any business backround and dont know what it takes...

Heres one for you... is there a point where a breeder becomes too big and gets away from doing the little cusotmer service things and their size hurts their business?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoshJP7

So judy you think its fair for him to blow me off and say ill get to you after the show "if" it doesnt sell?

---

I just don't see it as a matter of "fair" or "unfair." It's just what IS. What you choose to do with it is entirely up to you. I was just expressing how ~I~ feel about it. And if I'd found myself in exactly the same place as you, I would probably buy a clown from someone else as well....but....I wouldn't feel so personally offended or feel any need to call that breeder out. (Which you haven't exactly done because you didn't name him...but it sure seems like you WANT to. ;) )

Quote:

---

How about something like is this a serious inquiry?? are you willing to put down a deposit... ive had a lot of requests for pictures and no1 buys?... If i got this response i woulda been more than happy... But when you get "if i still have her when the shows over ill send you pics".... Thats it... ....

---

Again...this comes down to expecting someone else to do something exactly as you would. You'll always be disappointed at that, because everyone does things differently. And everyone also makes mistakes or has a day where they're so harried and stressed out that they may say or do things differently than they normally would. Maybe you just had the bad luck to catch him on such a day, and if given the chance he'd do it over again. Maybe I'm just more willing to give people that benefit of the doubt.

Quote:

---

Heres one for you... is there a point where a breeder becomes too big and gets away from doing the little cusotmer service things and their size hurts their business?

---

For some people....yes, that point can certainly come. And it's not just in the "breeding" business, but in ANY business. That's the point when a person's character and ability begins to really shine...and those who can't cut it fall out of the race...and those who can continue to grow and thrive. I can think of many, many businesses that have fallen into both categories.

Is that happening to this particular breeder you are complaining about??? :confuzd: How can anyone say without knowing who it is? But I'd say it takes a LOT more than an abrupt attitude with one potential customer one day to judge. You'd need to see a long-term trend toward spiting the customers....not just one bad moment.

You make many good points and yes i think your quick to give the benefit of the doubt... Its hard for me bc out of all the clowns i got pics of... his was the one i thought was the best looking... and If i dont buy his... i prolly wont buy any... 4k is alot to spend on a snake and I'm only prepared to do so if its the exact one I want not just anyone... I have since emailed him back trying to see his side of the situation and also explain my side... I dont want to be "that guy" but I also dont want to see the snake I want go to someone else when I did everything i could ya know??

As far as the whole snake breeding being too big... I wasnt putting this guy in that spotlight more of just an overall question. I know this happens everywhere but I consider the snake business much simpler and its hard for me to see where it gets complicating... I guess when you have a couple hundred snakes things get crazy... i only have 9 :)

... Good debate tho Judy many good points both way!

People are not always available to take pictures on demand within 5 minutes.

Some people that breeds do have day jobs, families they need to attend to on the top of taking care of their animals and preparing for a show is a lot of work whether it is 20 minutes away or 10 hours away.

If a breeder does not have the time he will tell you something such as “I don’t have the time right now to take picture due to …… however soon as I can I will email you with some pictures of the animal you are interested in”

I think this is an honest answer and does not mean it is bad customer service you have to understand the world does not stop because a customer wants a picture.

And yes it as happen to me before from a breeder I bought from in Daytona this year, I don’t think it is bad customer service, I know he is busy and I am not expecting anyone to stop whatever they are doing just for me, because if I want a snake real bad today I still will in 2-3 days from now and have time to wait for the pictures.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GA_Ball_Pythons

People are not always available to take pictures on demand within 5 minutes.

Some people that breeds do have day jobs, families they need to attend to on the top of taking care of their animals and preparing for a show is a lot of work whether it is 20 minutes away or 10 hours away.

If a breeder does not have the time he will tell you something such as “I don’t have the time right now to take picture due to …… however soon as I can I will email you with some pictures of the animal you are interested in”

I think this is an honest answer and does not mean it is bad customer service you have to understand the world does not stop because a customer wants a picture.

And yes it as happen to me before from a breeder I bought from in Daytona this year, I don’t think it is bad customer service, I know he is busy and I am not expecting anyone to stop whatever they are doing just for me, because if I want a snake real bad today I still will in 2-3 days from now and have time to wait for the pictures.

---

My whole thing is why put the snake up for sale, but turn around and say well if i still have it after the weekend then we can talk, even though josh is here ready to make the purchase all he needs is a few pics.... Whats the point of putting him in the classifieds at all. I dont care how busy you are, if you have time to put your snake up for sale then you should have time to provide info on that snake for potential buyers. But thats just me i guess. Josh i say move on man.

The problem isnt that he didnt have time bc he was busy doing something else and hell get me them when he can... If thats what he said I obviously wouldnt have complained... The problem is hes taking the snake to a show this weekend... to be sold... to someone else... Your right I still will want the snake real bad in a couple days... but it wont be available bc it might be sold. I think your concentrating on the wrong information deb. If he wasnt going to a show... and was just busy... No biggie... But when you throw in im going to a show... kinda puts an urgency on it dont ya think?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoshJP7

The problem is hes taking the snake to a show this weekend... to be sold... to someone else...

---

damn the free market.

More like damn inconsiderate breeders

So what's this breeder supposed to do Josh if he doesn't have time to take those pics for you? Not take this snake you may (or may not) buy to the show? The fact is you're interested but there's no money on the table so there's no contract/deal at this point. It doesn't sound like you've bought from this breeder before so you are an unknown entity to him as much as he is to you. Suppose he takes the pics, sends them to you, holds the snake back from the show and then you don't want this snake? I can imagine that's happened to a lot of breeders a lot of times.

While I think you might well have gotten better customer service, I hesitate to say as we're only hearing one side of this situation.

I know just how much work goes into the daily maintenance of 21 snakes. I cannot begin to conceive of the time required to care for a collection when it reaches 100+. For me when I've dealt with bigger breeders, I try to take into account what little I do understand of their lives. Things like is it the height of breeding season, egg laying or pipping time, is it right before a major show, etc. If I'm aware (as this breeder did make you aware) that the breeder I want to work with is under time constraints, and I truly want a particular snake, I'm either going to talk with hard cash or at least be patient with expecting certain things from them immediately.

He has time... He knew last night i wanted pics... so why couldnt you plan out an extra 5-10 mins in your day? If you tell me... hey josh im very interested in this snake and a couple pics will seal the deal... Ill get up 10 mins early if its gonna make me 4k... Your telling me you wouldnt? I didnt expect him to hold the snake back from the show but when someone says theyre seriously intersted do you assume theyre joking?? You guys make it sound like I shoulda sent him the 4gs and then been like yo can i get some more pics? Theres no money on the table bc I only got 1 pic... give me 3 more and 99% chance you got your money.

While I understand why everyone has been a little hard on Josh, I'm going to toss the other side of the coin.

Running a breeding business is STILL a business. I realize we all have lives outside of work, but if you don't plan on those occasional long days/nights, then you really shouldn't be starting a business in the first place. Being "busy" is no excuse for poor customer service. I'm not sure whether the account is accurate, but assuming it was, it was completely unprofessional.

Look, this industry has many faces. Businessmen, snake lovers, businessmen & snake lovers, riff raff and everything between. A lot of people like to push really hard that this is a hobby. I agree, however, the moment you sell your first snake, YOU should be treating it like a business, even if the IRS doesn't.

Again, I don't know the accuracy of the situation Josh described, but I DO know at the end of the day, the folks who love what they do AND they treat it like a business instead of a favor to those around them, are going to have a lot more success in this industry.

I see where people are coming from here. He may have a big show and he may have a full time job, but honestly you make time. That is where poor business background comes into play. Customers are the only thing keeping you in business, so you make every move to please them. He asked for pictures, not records, not weight or anything extensive.

To pull a snake out, take pictures, and upload them, it takes maybe 15 minutes MAX. You make 15 minutes. Period. Stay up 15 minutes later at night to get it done. $4,000 isn't anything to sneeze at.

I hope my life eventually comes to the point where $4,000 for 15 minutes worth of work, is a waste of time.

The way Josh put its "These are my competitiors", that makes me feel very confident for the future, for myself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoshJP7

He has time

---

Actually you can't state that as fact, Josh, that's your assumption of someone else's life and time allowances.

Quote:

---

Your telling me you wouldnt?

---

I'm not telling you anything and especially not about what I might do if I had a snake worth 4K and a huge collection to deal with everyday as well as whatever other issues any adult has on their plate each day. I can't tell you that because that's not my experience and I don't make snap judgements outside of what I actually know. What I might do is easy to say....what I will someday do if faced with this situation...I'm not sure...ask me when I have a 4K snake for sale LOL.

Nobody said you should send anybody 4K until you're absolutely comfortable doing so. What it takes you to get to that level of comfort is between you and whatever breeder you go with. All I said was that without any money on the table (deposit, etc.) there is no deal, no contract and no agreement. It's his snake and he can sell it to you, take it to a show or give it to Bob down the street if he really wants to. It's your money and you can spend it as you see fit.

Since neither you nor the breeder have reached any sort of agreement, it's really just two guys talking about a snake at this point - at least in my mind.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jhall1468

While I understand why everyone has been a little hard on Josh, I'm going to toss the other side of the coin.

Running a breeding business is STILL a business. I realize we all have lives outside of work, but if you don't plan on those occasional long days/nights, then you really shouldn't be starting a business in the first place. Being "busy" is no excuse for poor customer service. I'm not sure whether the account is accurate, but assuming it was, it was completely unprofessional.

Look, this industry has many faces. Businessmen, snake lovers, businessmen & snake lovers, riff raff and everything between. A lot of people like to push really hard that this is a hobby. I agree, however, the moment you sell your first snake, YOU should be treating it like a business, even if the IRS doesn't.

Again, I don't know the accuracy of the situation Josh described, but I DO know at the end of the day, the folks who love what they do AND they treat it like a business instead of a favor to those around them, are going to have a lot more success in this industry.

---

agreed. Like i said before. If he has this snake up for sale and somebody is interested but is still taking the snake to the show to sell, what sense does that make....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frankykeno

I'm not telling you anything and especially not about what I might do if I had a snake worth 4K and a huge collection to deal with everyday as well as whatever other issues any adult has on their plate each day. I can't tell you that because that's not my experience and I don't make snap judgements outside of what I actually know. What I might do is easy to say....what I will someday do if faced with this situation...I'm not sure...ask me when I have a 4K snake for sale LOL.

---

Well that's an interesting position to be in. I can tell you one thing, I've ran a number of businesses in my lifetime, and I can say, there were multiple nights I went without sleep to get the job done. Some were $4000, some were $200, but I did what I had to.

Faced with losing an hour or two of sleep, or losing a potential sale, I can honestly say I would take the former and that isn't a snap judgment, it's based on experience ;). In fact, we've all faced that type of situation from time to time.

Sure as my success continued I could be more picky about the jobs I selected, but man, no matter HOW well I did, I never got a $4000 offer for less than one day of work (let alone a couple of hours). But I can assure you, it wouldn't have been turned down ;).

I can say he HAS 5 mins bc he does... so do you and so does everyone... Whether or not you choose to MAKE that 5-10 mins available is your call... My analogy was waking up early...Jeff said spend an extra 10 mins at night... Either way he didnt say "im leaving in 3 mins dont have time"... it was "im leaving at 2pm".... well my email was at 7 this morning.... you cant find 5-10 mins in 7hrs? Justin brings up a good point... its still a business and needs to be handled like one... I guess if people are banging down your door for a 4k snake then you can do whatever you want but i highly think thats the case.

Juddb - Cant agree with you more... Hmm make the 4k right now or blow it off hoping someone will buy it at the show?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jhall1468

Well that's an interesting position to be in. I can tell you one thing, I've ran a number of businesses in my lifetime, and I can say, there were multiple nights I went without sleep to get the job done. Some were $4000, some were $200, but I did what I had to.

Faced with losing an hour or two of sleep, or losing a potential sale, I can honestly say I would take the former and that isn't a snap judgment, it's based on experience ;). In fact, we've all faced that type of situation from time to time.

Sure as my success continued I could be more picky about the jobs I selected, but man, no matter HOW well I did, I never got a $4000 offer for less than one day of work (let alone a couple of hours). But I can assure you, it wouldn't have been turned down ;).

---

Glad someone else understand the importance on Business Skills, as well as customer service.

Another observation. If a lot of breeders don't have good business skills and they are in business, they need to get educated. Ignorance isn't an excuse.

Why are people standing so strong for this breeder? (You don't even know who it is.)

I think it's simple. Josh made a serious inquiry, ask for some pics, then got put on the back burner. This guy treated him like he didn't need his business and that's offensive to a buyer, obviously. As the BUYER, you don't care if he's busy or not. I wouldn't care if he has 8 rugrats destroying his house and he's busy watching them do it. He put up adds that say: "I want to sell this." so when somone comes along and says: "I'd like to buy that." He should be figuring out how to make it happen.

Totally disagree with the time it takes for the pictures. I hate getting pictures that were set up with perfect light/photoshop and all that it takes to make the snake look like something it's not. As long as it's not with a cellphone, I'd be happy (again, as a buyer) with a picture taken under a light from the kitchen with the snake in hand. The snake doesn't always cooperate? This isn't America's Next Top Model.. just take a picture, the snake doesn't have to give Blue Steel to look good.


"IMO" 2 people on here making sense, their names start with jhall and juddb. lol

Quote:

---

I dont care how busy you are, if you have time to put your snake up for sale then you should have time to provide info on that snake for potential buyers.

---

Consideration, manners, respect, being understanding and patient work both ways.

Usually when you have your own business you plan one day to clean snakes (and some will have to be cleaned again as they go) one to feed, one to clean rodents, one to feed rodents, and one when you will take pictures place adds and update your website and I am not even covering shipping data keeping etc and of course for some this is on the top of whatever else you might HAVE to do such as work, family etc.

Expecting people to drop everything they are doing for YOU is very inconsiderate in my opinion if you cannot wait 24-48 hours for the breeder to make time to take a picture and email it too you I guess you can take your money somewhere else if that is the case however claiming it is bad customer service or as you said a "scumbag" is just plain wrong.

I wonder have you ever run a small business on the top of having a regular job and juggling with your family obligations?

I wouldn't say I'm standing strong for this breeder or bashing on Josh. Personally having only one side of a story and no knowledge of what sort of buyer Josh is or what breeder he's not happy with, I don't think I personally know enough to form that opinion.

All I am saying is we don't know if this breeder thought Josh was a serious buyer or had made a "serious inquiry". I'm not comfortable with members saying a breeder, named or not, is "scum" because of one incident, with one buyer that we only have one side of the story on.

What I am trying to do with my participation in this thread is suggest that there are two sides to every story, and present some reasons that this breeder might not have immediately complied with Josh's request for more pics.

As far as the "interesting position" Josh, I will simply not make a statement of fact about what I would do given a situation I've never been in and have no real knowledge or experience in the dynamics of the situation. For me, that's an assumption and I don't use assumptions when talking about anyone or their reputation for customer service.

I never said i EXPECTED them to drop everything... All I asked for was some pics... in 7hrs... find 10mins to get me some pics... and your gonna tell me thats inconsiderate?? I cant say Ive ran a small business but I did work 40hrs a week while taking 4- 4credit college classes AND I was caring for my snakes the whole time... I dont think you really want to argue in "family and work" bc it comes down to 10mins... thats all ... a click of the camera... lil USB action... Upload email bodda bing badda boom

Um I never called anyone a scumbag. Sorry.

I don't know if you breed snakes and you're sensitive to this because you're the same way. But it's not how it should be. If I have a second job, that's not even MY personal business, it shouldn't mean everyone should expect less from me. If he doesn't have time.. should he be doing it?

If I don't have time for something, or can't do something right...maybe you shouldn't be doing it. That something people are taughted when they're very young. Obviously some are not taught that way.

I bet if I had a snake that I "didn't have time" to take care of, I'd be getting ripped apart because "time" w/ jobs/family etc. wouldn't be a valid excuse THEN, would it?

Quote:

---

Why are people standing so strong for this breeder? (You don't even know who it is.)

---

No one is standing up for anyone people are trying to make a point that the world does not stop for one person, that people can be busy and not available right this second and as long as they handle it in a professional manner this is not bad customer service and this cannot be called being a scumbag.

The customers that want everything now and show no respect or understanding are in my opinion as bad as people who lack customer skills.

Since when being a customer or potential customer means you cannot be considerate and understanding?

OH MY! Yes, I think the world should stop when you're trying to sell something.. and someone is trying to buy it. It's that simple. I really don't care about 2 sides of the story. But here they are anyway:

Side 1(josh): I'd like some pictures

Side 2(breeder): I don't have time for you.

That's in a nutshell, and that's about all that needs to be looked at.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GA_Ball_Pythons

Consideration, manners, respect, being understanding and patient work both ways.

Expecting people to drop everything they are doing for YOU is very inconsiderate in my opinion if you cannot wait 24-48 hours for the breeder to make time to take a picture and email it too you I guess you can take your money somewhere else if that is the case however claiming it is bad customer service or as you said a "scumbag" is just plain wrong.

I wonder have you ever run a small business on the top of having a regular job and juggling with your family obligations?

---

I agree with all of the pleasantries, but dropping what you are doing, for the customer, is part of business. Saying "Wait until after the show if I still have it" is the complete wrong way to deal with it.

Business is Business, even if you are selling snakes, running a store, or an online business. Customer comes before packing for a show.

As to running a small business, I have more experience than anyone I know my age. I am 19 and I am currently involved with a lot of online sales(around 200-300 auctions a week), where customer service is 10x harder than in person imo. I sell antiques for my grandfather. I run everything pretty much. Emails, listing items, answering questions, shipping items, long hours. I also go to college (business major)for 4-5 classes a semester, and I have my own house to run and pay for. I do not deal with snakes on a business level, but business is business. I still stand by what I said earlier. You make time. Customers don't want excuses.

breeder :I just reposted the ad for the two clown females on kingsnake, so youcan check it out right now. I have the big two-day Chantilly, VA show this weekend and those twogirls will be going with me. If you're seriously interested in one orboth of them, you might want to contact me before tomorrow noon as Iwill be leaving then to set up for the show

josh:Do you happen to have more pics of the top female in your kingsnake as? Im liking hermore and more but would like some other pics to get a better look... Let me know if you can get me some more pics before you take off ... could save you from having to bring her on your trip. Thank you

breeder:I don’t have any more photos and don’t have time to take more before the show. That photo is very representative of her appearance. They are both killer looking clowns.

josh:I am very interested in the first female but am not will to drop that kind of money going off of 1 picture... I hope you can get a few more pics of her today before you take off so I can get a better look... As long as am happy with the other pics ill most likely take her. Let me know if you can make this happen.

breeder:If I still have her after the show, I’ll take some more shots for you

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikeC1212

Um I never called anyone a scumbag. Sorry.

I don't know if you breed snakes and you're sensitive to this because you're the same way. But it's not how it should be. If I have a second job, that's not even MY personal business, it shouldn't mean everyone should expect less from me. If he doesn't have time.. should he be doing it?

If I don't have time for something, or can't do something right...maybe you shouldn't be doing it. That something people are taughted when they're very young. Obviously some are not taught that way.

I bet if I had a snake that I "didn't have time" to take care of, I'd be getting ripped apart because "time" w/ jobs/family etc. wouldn't be a valid excuse THEN, would it?

---

No one said you did.

I'm not "sensitive" to this issue since I don't current breed snakes (our adults will be introduced next month and until I produce a living hatchling I don't presume to call myself a breeder).

I am simply presenting another viewpoint, which we encourage at BPNet and no you would not be "ripped apart". We would hopefully help you see other options.....much as I'm doing on this particular subject. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoshJP7

I can say he HAS 5 mins bc he does... so do you and so does everyone... Whether or not you choose to MAKE that 5-10 mins available is your call... My analogy was waking up early...Jeff said spend an extra 10 mins at night... Either way he didnt say "im leaving in 3 mins dont have time"... it was "im leaving at 2pm".... well my email was at 7 this morning.... you cant find 5-10 mins in 7hrs?

---

You know he has 5 mins, because he has 7 hrs before he leaves for the show. But you don't know how many things he needs to fit into those 7 hrs, and how many other things he wants to fit into those 7 hrs, but can't. You don't know how many emails he got today asking for him to send pics. Of course if it was tons of people all asking about the same snake that is easy, but you said he has lots of ads on kingsnake so that probably means lots of different snakes. Maybe answering all the emails with the level of customer service he would like to provide on any other day would have taken him the entire 7 hours and then his snakes wouldn't be packed for the show. You are right he is the one that chooses whether or not to make the time to take those pics and send them to you. But I'm not sure you have figured out that probably isn't the only thing he is choosing from. It isn't just sleep or this one pic. In fact, if he only got your email this morning and he's leaving this afternoon, it was probably too late for him to decide to get a little less sleep. So I think you are being a little harsh on him and not seeing the whole picture.

Now, I'm not taking the breeder's side. From your account, it doesn't sound like he handled it well. People who are in business should figure out a way to get good at customer service even if they aren't good at it naturally or don't have a business background or whatever. If he doesn't have time to deal with customer service today because he is leaving for the show, then he could have set up his email account to reply to all incoming messages with an auto message that says something like "We are at the show this weekend, our online store reopens 8 am Monday." And it would have been even better if he had the foresight to put a similar note in his ads warning people he'd be at the show and therefore unavailable online this weekend. Businesses aren't required to be open 24/7 after all. Of course it'd be best if he could mange to do both somehow (hire someone for the weekend maybe?), but that is probably unrealistic for most reptile breeders.

Since he did take the time to reply to your email, he should have figured out a way to do something other than say "I don't have time so you are prolly gonna lose out on the chance to buy this snake cuz I'll sell it to someone else at the show". He could have offered you a way to put a hold on the snake. With some creativity there are hundreds of things that could be done. Even if it was something like a big non-refundable deposit that most people wouldn't do until they'd seen more pics, it at least puts the ball back in your court. Or maybe he gets your phone number and calls you so you get first right of refusal if someone gets interested in the snake at the show. Of course that particular one would prolly get the other customer upset, but I'm just pointing out the wide variety of things that could have been done.

There are the 2 complete sides I guess.

Everyone's looking deeper though, saying personal things might have popped up, need to be considerate.. and so on

I think it was brimstone was 100% right when he said time and time again, business is business. When you go to the store, whether it's walmart or mcdonalds, or whatever... do you expect to wait? because someone might be doing something else? NO! You want you pictures in 1 hour. You want your cheeseburger hot and fresh.

When you try to buy a snake off someones "business" you expect the same prompt/courteous service that you'd expect anywhere else. You(the customer) are always right. There's a simple business lesson.. and i didn't go to college for it. I picked it up sometime in Jr High.

Josh, I think it's time to find a different breeder. I've had snakes sold out from under me, and it SUCKS. If that breeder can't give you the common decency to let you know he's going to a show, will be back in two days, and you can discuss things, then find another breeder.

I'm working with a breeder right now who let me know up front that someone else was interested in the snake too and was willing to plop down money the next day. I put a deposit on the snake that night, and told the breeder my circumstances and how I needed to pay(this is only a $500 snake, but still). This breeder went out of his way to find baby/yearling/adult pictures of this snake as well as take a few extras, just so I'd have them. It likely didn't even take him 5 minutes, but just doing that showed me that he's serious about his business and taking care of his customers. Two more payments and I'll have my adult hypo ;)

Find a different breeder, you'll have a much better buying and after-the-sale experience. You'll find another clown that "clicks", no worries.

I agree you make time for your customers and you treat them professionally I never disagreed with that, however customers should be understanding as well.

Now if someone does not have the time and is rude on the top of it absolutely there is no excuse for that kind of behavior, if it is handled in a professional manner a customer should be understanding as well (or is it too much to expect).

For the record I had both happening to me (NO time and rude and NO time and very profesional).

I agree customers should be understanding, but if you read the transaction that happened between Josh and the breeder, the breeder handled it very unprofessionally.

Josh asked for more pictures and he says no time they are really nice clowns though. That right there just shows he doesn't care and doesn't even make the effort. Josh was very understanding until the point where the breeder said "If I have the snake after the show Ill take some pitures". That is where he went wrong.

In general, I wouldn't expect understanding from customers, I would consider it a bonus if it happens. Businesses are there to please the customer, not vice versa. The opposite happened to Josh. Breeder wants Josh to wait on him.

I am kind of curious as to who the breeder is. If you don't want to post it, I would like a PM. If you don't want to devulge it as all, that is fine. Just curious to see if it was any of the same breeders I dealt with on my search.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GA_Ball_Pythons

Expecting people to drop everything they are doing for YOU is very inconsiderate in my opinion if you cannot wait 24-48 hours for the breeder to make time to take a picture and email it too you I guess you can take your money somewhere else if that is the case however claiming it is bad customer service or as you said a "scumbag" is just plain wrong.

---

Heres the thing though, the sellar told him flat out that he might sell it at a show during the weekend, so im saying why put it up for sale if you dont know if it will be available in a few days. So he would be waiting 24 -48 hrs for nothing.... So it is bad customer service. All he has to do is say its not for sale. Then if he has it on monday put it back up for sale. This is rediculous. Why offer it for sale if your not going to entertain the buyer.

It's the seller's option to sell it however he chooses. I'm quite sure that most if not all breeders who were at Daytona had animals at shows that were also on their available pages. If there are no deposits made on that animal, then it's not unprofessional to sell it at a show. No one owns it but the seller. Just because the buyer comes through a show, rather than an e-mail, a sale is a sale.

If the breeder chose not to respond to Josh's initial e-mail until he returned from the show, would Josh be as up in arms about it? And then came back and said - thank you for your interest, but the animal has sold.

If Josh didn't want the seller to sell this animal at the show - he should have put a deposit on it.

Perhaps the breeder should have been a little more polite to Josh, but the facts don't change - he simply did not have time today to post any pictures.

I am getting an animal from Adam. He has been incredibly busy - and I have not seen pictures of animals to choose from. I know his intentions are good, and when he has time, he'll get pictures to me. I don't demand that he takes 5-10 minutes to quickly snap some pictures and get them to me. I find that unreasonable from where I sit.

Sure I'm anxious to pick out my animal, and I'd love to have had pictures yesterday. But I am also understanding of Adam's current time restraints.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rabernet

It's the seller's option to sell it however he chooses. I'm quite sure that most if not all breeders who were at Daytona had animals at shows that were also on their available pages. If there are no deposits made on that animal, then it's not unprofessional to sell it at a show. No one owns it but the seller. Just because the buyer comes through a show, rather than an e-mail, a sale is a sale.

If the breeder chose not to respond to Josh's initial e-mail until he returned from the show, would Josh be as up in arms about it? And then came back and said - thank you for your interest, but the animal has sold.

If Josh didn't want the seller to sell this animal at the show - he should have put a deposit on it.

Perhaps the breeder should have been a little more polite to Josh, but the facts don't change - he simply did not have time today to post any pictures.

I am getting an animal from Adam. He has been incredibly busy - and I have not seen pictures of animals to choose from. I know his intentions are good, and when he has time, he'll get pictures to me. I don't demand that he takes 5-10 minutes to quickly snap some pictures and get them to me. I find that unreasonable from where I sit.

Sure I'm anxious to pick out my animal, and I'd love to have had pictures yesterday. But I am also understanding of Adam's current time restraints.

---

To me what is comes down to is a shot at $4,000(Breeders POV) for 15 minutes worth of work, in an already hectic schedule. You make time. You can be the busiest person in the world, and still have 15 minutes of downtime. Sleeping is downtime in my opinion.

I find it unfathomable that you can have a shot at $4,000 and turn it down, because you didn't want to take 3-4 pictures.

Did anyone demand him to take pictures? No.

I've noticed a trend in this thread, I'll keep that to myself though..

Anyway,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frankykeno

What I am trying to do with my participation in this thread is suggest that there are two sides to every story, and present some reasons that this breeder might not have immediately complied with Josh's request for more pics.

---

Presenting another side to a story.. sounds like a debate. I don't use that word often, however I use a word that's synonymous. Arguing. Did you just say you're participation in this thread is to come in and argue? Why?

What surprises me is all the people stating how "difficult" it is to take good pictures. Anyone with a fairly new digital camera with auto focus knows it takes all of 5 minutes to snap a few pictures, crop them, resize, and email. For 4000 bucks, you think he'd make the time to do this. Poor customer service. The buyer wasn't asking for professional quality pictures, he just wanted a few quick pictures.

Wow, I have to say that there really are lots of good points on both sides. The way the seller came across to me, I am not sure if I would push the issue. To me it comes across as I don't have time for you now, and I may not have time for you in the future. Now, as in most emails or posts, you cannot read a person. This is why I prefer to deal with people in person, on the phone or at least know with a great deal of certainty who they are thru a site like this. Do I want a seller to drop everything just for me, expecially when they are not sure if there will be a sale? No. However, when I have dealt with people such as Adam (and some of the other end of the spectrum), I am ALOT more picky on who I will hand my hard earned money too. Customer service is the #1 thing I look for. Having spent my whole adult life working in CS and complaint resolution, I am very tollerant of things coming up. However I will not put up with rude behavior nor will I spend my money where someone seems like they don't care if I buy from them or not.
While he may have been extrordanarily busy and none of us know for sure, I think he could have done things differently. If I were in the same situation, I would have requested a phone number from the potential buyer. He did not know that Josh was really going to go thru with it, but a few minute phone call could have shed more light on things I think. It is the sellers right to take it to the show however.

i see good points on all sides.

sometimes you just have to shop the breeder a little more.

sometimes you just won't mesh or get along with someone or their way of business.

if you're not getting the level of service you expect for your money, i would shop around.

i've seen/heard of people losing alot bigger deals than 4k! you would be amazed.:O


vaughn

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rabernet

It's the seller's option to sell it however he chooses. I'm quite sure that most if not all breeders who were at Daytona had animals at shows that were also on their available pages. If there are no deposits made on that animal, then it's not unprofessional to sell it at a show. No one owns it but the seller. Just because the buyer comes through a show, rather than an e-mail, a sale is a sale.

---

True, a sale is a sale, and I don't have ANYTHING against listing animals for sale both online and at shows. But I do take issue with ignoring a potential sale simply because you are "too busy" to be bothered with at least a sense of good service.

Quote:

---

If the breeder chose not to respond to Josh's initial e-mail until he returned from the show, would Josh be as up in arms about it? And then came back and said - thank you for your interest, but the animal has sold.

---

I sincerely doubt it. But that's apples and oranges. If the breeder wasn't going to bother with it anyway, the question I have is why even respond in the first place. If I ask someone to take a few minutes out of their day, and those few moments are worth $4000, I certainly would expect better than, "If it's still available when I have time, I'll let you know."

Quote:

---

If Josh didn't want the seller to sell this animal at the show - he should have put a deposit on it.

---

Oh come on. He was asking for photos to determine if he was certain about the purchase. Don't tell me you would actually but a $400 deposit, on a $4000 purchase, without knowing for sure you wanted it.

If you decided to go out and buy the next generation plasma TV, and the salesman told you there is one in back but he can't be bothered to take you to look at it, are you going to say, "well here, let me put down a deposit on the TV I'm not sure I want."

Customer service is secondary to pre-customer service.

Quote:

---

Perhaps the breeder should have been a little more polite to Josh, but the facts don't change - he simply did not have time today to post any pictures.

---

Well that's debatable, and as others have pointed out, no one knows if the breeder really did or didn't have 15 minutes to snap some photos. For me the logic simply isn't there. If I only have 1 photo of a $4000 product, then my brain is going to say, "you know, I need more photos of this product." So I'd take the 15 minutes out of my day. Best case scenerio? You sell the product. Worst case? You have photos of a product that you should already have multiple photos of in the first place.

Did the breeder have 15 minutes? Probably. But clearly his priorities, as a businessman, differ from mine.

Quote:

---

I am getting an animal from Adam. He has been incredibly busy - and I have not seen pictures of animals to choose from. I know his intentions are good, and when he has time, he'll get pictures to me. I don't demand that he takes 5-10 minutes to quickly snap some pictures and get them to me. I find that unreasonable from where I sit.

---

You should try out the business I was in for years... if the most I got asked for was 5-10 minutes I'd still be doing it for a living ;). There is DEFINITELY a point where no amount of money is worth the stress of dealing with a pushy customer. However, I often had to take 20-30 minutes out of my days to write bids for projects. That wasn't "unreasonable" it was a cost of doing business.

And obviously the situation is a bit different, because the breeder in question was going to sell off the animal the very next day. That sale was far more urgent, and as such, the timing of the situation was far more limited.

Again, I'm basing my opinion totally on what one person has said. I'm a firm believer in there being three sides to every conflict, I'm making the assumption the poster isn't lying. To be honest, I'm a little stunned by the reaction thus far. To me, the thought of blowing off any amount of money is mind-boggling, given that the total investment for a potential sale, was a few minutes.