Herping in the local grocery store

I work in the meat department of a grocery store. Today, one of the employees came rushing through my dept, and exclaimed "There's a snake!", I said, "Where?" ... I was finally able to get out of her that it was in the stock room in some soft drink crates. I went back to be told by a soft drink rep that he thought it was a copperhead, and they couldn't find it. I started moving some of the crates around (very carefully with my foot), and finally the guy saw it and pointed it out to me. As soon as I saw it, I reached down and grabbed it, only to be bitten about 4 or 5 times. The guy asked "What kind is it?", and I resisted the urge to tell him that it was a "copper mouthed rattle moccasin", and told the truth that it was a baby black rat snake! I snatched up a deli cup from my dept, and stuck the snake in it, brought him home at lunch and set him up in a plastic tub with a fuzzy mouse, which he gladly accepted. Don't know yet whether we'll keep him, or just give him a few meals and release him.

Pics later!

Steve

That is a funny story Steve! :8:



Please post pics when you can.

Too funny Steve - I agree - post pictures!

:8: Hahaha.... "copper mouthed rattle moccasin" Yea, we have those here. And the ones that are breeding with the Poisonous snakes over seas from cargo crates and flooding Texas with Super dangerous "cross bred" monsters.




:rolleyes:

I never find anything good at the grocery store!:( Except maybe ice cream!!:D

Great story Steve! Gotta love how large and venomous snakes become when non-herp people find them. I have been told many stories of the 9 foot diamondback a farmer caught out here in Tooele trying to eat his livestock. My guess is it was a 3 foot great basin rattler, or even a gophersnake. Any pics of the little guy?

-Evan

Here he is! 2nd pic is just a cropped copy of the first one.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...5/ratsnake.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../ratsnake2.jpg

Steve

Wow, look at his tongue! Great story! :D

Great story! And great catch! Any updates on this little guy?

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Originally Posted by MelissaFlipski

Great story! And great catch! Any updates on this little guy?

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Wow! Melissa's been cruising the Field Herping forum!!!! ;)

Yep, still got him, and he still bites! I had intended to release him before the weather got cold, but didn't get it done. We'll re-evaluate in the spring.

Quick little story- My son is 21 yrs old and lives with me. My computer is just inside my bedroom door. Adam came walking into my room a couple days ago grasping the snake around its middle. (Reminded me of how a three year old might hold a snake). The snake was calm, not struggling to get away, and not trying to bite him! He then allowed the snake to crawl freely on his arm, and he at least "appeared" to be as tame as the bps. EVERY time I have picked up that snake he's tried to bite me!!!

Steve

oh the other day i found a snake just like that in my uncles back yard he thought it was venimous but i really douhted that so i got him and realased him back hes was in bad shape he had a cut on his tail

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Originally Posted by hoo-t

Wow! Melissa's been cruising the Field Herping forum!!!! ;)

Yep, still got him, and he still bites! I had intended to release him before the weather got cold, but didn't get it done. We'll re-evaluate in the spring.

Quick little story- My son is 21 yrs old and lives with me. My computer is just inside my bedroom door. Adam came walking into my room a couple days ago grasping the snake around its middle. (Reminded me of how a three year old might hold a snake). The snake was calm, not struggling to get away, and not trying to bite him! He then allowed the snake to crawl freely on his arm, and he at least "appeared" to be as tame as the bps. EVERY time I have picked up that snake he's tried to bite me!!!

Steve

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Yes, I am surfing in, trying to find a new way to get my fix. Now I can't wait until spring to go field herping myself! I revive old threads when I do searches. I hope you don't mind.

That is a great update. Funny that he bites you, but not your son. My mom said he bites you, "because you're the one who caught him." LOL

Post updated pics, please!

hes got that look to him....


the look of IM GUNNA BITE YOU!!!:taz:

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Originally Posted by MelissaFlipski

Yes, I am surfing in, trying to find a new way to get my fix. Now I can't wait until spring to go field herping myself! I revive old threads when I do searches. I hope you don't mind.

That is a great update. Funny that he bites you, but not your son. My mom said he bites you, "because you're the one who caught him." LOL

Post updated pics, please!

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Adam noticed today that his tub was wet. He had apparently dumped his water bowl. I took him out and asked Adam whether he wanted to hold the snake or wash the tub. He chose to hold the snake. BUT! The snake didn't bite me!!!!! Your mom is in a majority. A number of people have told me the same thing! I always respond, "I SAVED HIS LIFE!!!" which is the absolute truth. The lady that came screaming through the meat dept that day was looking for something to kill him with. Pics will have to wait for another day. I'm leaning very much towards my bed!

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Originally Posted by jdmls88

hes got that look to him....


the look of IM GUNNA BITE YOU!!!:taz:

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He means it too!!!

Steve

Well welcome to the club if it can bite,it will bite Me. Lol

I may be wrong but he looks more like an emoryi or maybe an emoryi X obsoleta integrade. It just doesn't strike me as a baby obsoleta. Again I could be wrong but that is just my opinion.

John

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Originally Posted by SerpentesCiconii

I may be wrong but he looks more like an emoryi or maybe an emoryi X obsoleta integrade. It just doesn't strike me as a baby obsoleta. Again I could be wrong but that is just my opinion.

John

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John -

Thanks for the input! I really don't have a great deal of experience with juvenile rat snakes. According to my field guide, the Black Rat Snake (elaphe obsoleta) and Great Plains Rat Snake (elaphe guttata) are the two that are native to this area (OKC, OK). I suppose that it could be either of those. I'm not sure of the range of Emoryi, but since it was found in a grocery store, its possible that it hitched a ride from most anywhere. I just figured it came from near the store or the Coca Cola bottling plant in OKC, which would support either guttata or obsoleta. Also, blacks seem to be pretty common around here. What do you see that says emoryi to you? Keep in mind that this is a very young snake, and if it is obsoleta, it hasn't started getting its adult colors yet.

Steve

Hey Steve,
Pantherophis emoryi is the great plains rat snake. It sounds like your field guide may be from the 90s or so before all of the more recent taxonomical changes. Elaphe guttata, now known as Pantherophis guttata, only refers to the eastern corn snake which is a close relative of the great plains rat snake.

The snake just does not look like any young obsoleta I have seen. The pattern and overall brownish color makes me lean towards emoryi, though I know young obsoleta can be sort of brownish. The chief reason is pattern on the head. They are in the same Genus and it can be difficult to tell the young ones apart.

I am mainly into Asian rat snakes and Latin American racers so I am not as familiar with these snakes as others may be, but I feel I know a decent amount. But like I said earlier I could be wrong, lol.

John

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Originally Posted by SerpentesCiconii

Hey Steve,
Pantherophis emoryi is the great plains rat snake. It sounds like your field guide may be from the 90s or so before all of the more recent taxonomical changes. Elaphe guttata, now known as Pantherophis guttata, only refers to the eastern corn snake which is a close relative of the great plains rat snake.

The snake just does not look like any young obsoleta I have seen. The pattern and overall brownish color makes me lean towards emoryi, though I know young obsoleta can be sort of brownish. The chief reason is pattern on the head. They are in the same Genus and it can be difficult to tell the young ones apart.

I am mainly into Asian rat snakes and Latin American racers so I am not as familiar with these snakes as others may be, but I feel I know a decent amount. But like I said earlier I could be wrong, lol.

John

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Thanks John! Yeah, the field guide is "A Field Guide to Reptiles of Oklahoma" c 1988 revised 1993. Kinda dated. Guess I'm gonna have to get with the times on these name changes! They kind of irritate me. The latest I heard is that they want to move all the rat snakes into pituophis! When I read that, I thought elaphe, pantherophis, pituophis - just leave it alone!!!! Oh well. I have a pretty comprehensive book on rat snakes (it'll also have them in elaphe, though). Maybe it would show scale counts or scale patterns that would tell definitively. I'll dig it out and see what I can find.

Steve

Well, here it is. From "Rat Snakes A Hobbyest's Guide to Elaphe and Kin", about Elaphe Osoleta (I know, old taxonomy)...

"All the subspecies can be distinguished by the absence of a complete "spearpoint" on the head (even in juveniles).

The pictures in the book of the Great Plains Rat Snake match exactly. Soo, its not a black rat snake, but a Great Plains Rat Snake! How 'bout that?!?!?

Thanks John!!!

Steve

No problem Steve, you got those updated pics yet? :)

John

Thats a crazy story!
and the snake looks really healthy on the outside. And has a nice red flicker too.
Good thing they had someone handy who knew what kind of snake it was. or they might have killed him! Good save!!!

As requested, here's a new pic of "Al". Really doesn't look much different. And sorry for the pic quality, he wasn't in the mood to have his picture taken! Oh, I included a couple quarters for size reference.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/files/3/3/7/5/Al.jpg

Steve

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Originally Posted by Jonny2184

Thats a crazy story!
and the snake looks really healthy on the outside. And has a nice red flicker too.
Good thing they had someone handy who knew what kind of snake it was. or they might have killed him! Good save!!!

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Thanks jonny! His life was in VERY dire straits when I first encountered him. The lady that ran through my dept yelling "There's a snake!" was looking for something to kill him with. I remind him of that daily, and yet he still doesn't appreciate me! He struck several times today while I was trying to get a pic! (Didn't bite me though!)

Steve

So is the snake still with you or did you set it free?

You have to keep him, because most good relationships start with a memorable first meeting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SerpentesCiconii

I may be wrong but he looks more like an emoryi or maybe an emoryi X obsoleta integrade. It just doesn't strike me as a baby obsoleta. Again I could be wrong but that is just my opinion.

John

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by hoo-t

Well, here it is. From "Rat Snakes A Hobbyest's Guide to Elaphe and Kin", about Elaphe Osoleta (I know, old taxonomy)...

"All the subspecies can be distinguished by the absence of a complete "spearpoint" on the head (even in juveniles).

The pictures in the book of the Great Plains Rat Snake match exactly. Soo, its not a black rat snake, but a Great Plains Rat Snake! How 'bout that?!?!?

Thanks John!!!

Steve

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I read Will Bird's and Phil Peak's book "The Snake Hunting Guide." The black bands on Al are very small, but could he be an eastern milk snake? I know OK is very far away, but his markings look like the one on page 48 of their book.

Sorry, I'm a bit new to this, could someone explain this to me? When I see that snake's face I immediately think "Corn". But then again I'm not too familiar with rat snakes. Are you just going by color and pattern? Are their physical shapes any different?