On fire or just stubborn?!? Hellllp :x

First off I want to say, I just found this forum not too long ago, it’s been so so helpful, thank all of you already!

I’ve had Khan for about a year now and I think he’s about 1.5 to 2yo, probably about 2.5/3 feet now.


I’m writing bc I’m a little stressed about him not eating. I know I know I know I’ve read online and it’s probably not a big deal… but here I am.


He was eating mice then small rats perfectly until about a month and a half ago. I noticed my cage (all wood custom with a slide front) was a little colder than usual so I put in a new ceramic heat bulb (again I know ceramic bulb isn’t ideal but the heat pads were not really working with the wood bottom. And I keep my humidity pretty good) 100watt (I was using a 75watt before), the cage is fairly big.
It’s warmer. BUT now he hasn’t eaten and I’m not sure if it’s a coincidence, if he’s just being stubborn OR is this poor guy too hot? Hellllpp? Do I bring the bulb back down? Or just stop stressing?


Warm side gets about 88-92, middle gets about 85, and the cool side 80-83. Also bc it’s a heat lamp there is a small resting area above the heat hide that gets about 95-100(it’s pretty high up). I mist morning and night so everything drops slightly for awhile then.


Any advice? Thanks again in advance!


xoxo,
KhansStressedOutDaddy

….. I tried to post some pics but can’t figure out how ::weirdface

For safety reasons, I'd try to get your temps. lowered just a couple degrees so the highest temps don't exceed 90*- some prefer 88* as a max. Snakes really do need the optional lower temps too, & 80-83* isn't much of a drop, so it would be best if you can lower the temps there too- just a couple degrees.

Remember that a snake's metabolism- & therefore weight loss- is based on the heat- for BPs, it's a fine line to walk, warm enough so they eat & digest well, & but cool enough so they don't burn it off too rapidly.

If his body weight is good, a month & a half isn't much of a fast, & it may or may not have resulted from his sensing the previous cooler temperatures. Some snakes do take the "hint" though when they sense temperature drops, but that ship has sailed, so other than tweaking the temps. you'll have to be patient- it goes with the species. ;)

BTW, :welcome:

As far as posting pics here most use Tapatalk app.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-Post-Pictures

I would definitely lower that hot spot like Bogertophis said.

Otherwise... You may be having your first experience with a ball python's food strike. Males especially will do this. As long as his body weight stays good, there's no real reason to stress. Just cut back food offers to every 2 weeks or so maybe.
One of my males will fast every winter. The others are good so far so it really can depend on the snake.

Just keep an eye out for any other symptoms. As long as he seems fine and just uninterested, let him do his thing.

Thank you for the reply!

ok so the hottest hot part (on top of the hot hide) should be no hotter than 90 (that would make his hot hide around 85 probably) And that’s the hottest part of the whole cage. I’m going to try changing back to a 75watt bulb and see if that will keep it hot enough. As far as the cool side, it should ideally be at…. 80? 75? What should it NOT be, like too cold.

thanks again for taking the time! I know this is such a beginner problem :x but all answers are sooo so different.

annnnddd I’m still working on getting pictures in here still. I’m still not understanding that. …. But that is alllll on my part I’m sure x)

Changing bulbs to adjust temps sounds like you’re not using a thermostat. If that’s the case I would make that priority #1.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jmcrook

Changing bulbs to adjust temps sounds like you’re not using a thermostat. If that’s the case I would make that priority #1.

Hi.
I am not. How would I use that? That’s something I would plug the light I have now in? And it would automatically turn on and off?

ive been changing bulb wattages and watching the temps.
I have three zoomed thermometers throughout for visual and I use my radar heat gun a few times a day to double check accuracy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jmcrook

Changing bulbs to adjust temps sounds like you’re not using a thermostat. If that’s the case I would make that priority #1.


also, is this something I would find at petssmart? Or homedepot?

:x thank you thank you!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

Works just like the thermostat in your home. Set at desired temp and controls the heating element to stay at or near that set temperature. This is the single most important piece of husbandry equipment that any keeper should have.

Below are examples of thermostats in descending order from highest to lowest quality/reliability in my opinion. It’s worth it to shell out for the good equipment.

http://spyderrobotics.com
https://www.reptilebasics.com/thermostats
https://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-Ger.../dp/B000NZZG3S


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KhansDaddy

.... As far as the cool side, it should ideally be at…. 80? 75? What should it NOT be, like too cold...

---

I'd aim for about 78* on the coolest side. Your snake is a young adult, so as already mentioned, this just may have more to do with that & not so much the temperatures, but do fix them anyway. ;)

PLEASE make sure you regulate the temps. for safety as well as his appetite.

And I agree, if your snake is refusing food, I'd also lengthen the time between offerings, from a week to 2 weeks, & potentially even longer- because offering too often just stresses them anyway, & can make them LESS likely to eat.

Understand that with snakes, especially BPs- food refusals "happen", & remember they often fast in the wild, according to the seasons & their needs. As creatures that eat multiple times a day, it tends to worry us until we get used to the idea that snakes are just designed to fast at times. Sometimes it's just what they do. :snake:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jmcrook

Works just like the thermostat in your home. Set at desired temp and controls the heating element to stay at or near that set temperature. This is the single most important piece of husbandry equipment that any keeper should have.

Below are examples of thermostats in descending order from highest to lowest quality/reliability in my opinion. It’s worth it to shell out for the good equipment.

http://spyderrobotics.com
https://www.reptilebasics.com/thermostats
https://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-Ger.../dp/B000NZZG3S


awesome, thank you for the info! I’ll try to pick one up today. If I can’t find it at store I will order it tonight!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I'd aim for about 78* on the coolest side. Your snake is a young adult, so as already mentioned, this just may have more to do with that & not so much the temperatures, but do fix them anyway. ;)

PLEASE make sure you regulate the temps. for safety as well as his appetite.

And I agree, if your snake is refusing food, I'd also lengthen the time between offerings, from a week to 2 weeks, & potentially even longer- because offering too often just stresses them anyway, & can make them LESS likely to eat.

Understand that with snakes, especially BPs- food refusals "happen", & remember they often fast in the wild, according to the seasons & their needs. As creatures that eat multiple times a day, it tends to worry us until we get used to the idea that snakes are just designed to fast at times. Sometimes it's just what they do. :snake:

---

allll this info, you are amazing! Thank you!
I’m going to try to find a thermostat so I can stop switching bulbs. Sounds like that will be MUCH better. … and then I guess I’ll just stop stressing so much! Ugh.

Don't worry, you'll get all this. Some of us have been keeping many snakes for many years- I wish there'd been a forum like this when I first got interested in keeping snakes- it helps to ask the right people, not someone in a store that's just trying to make a sale, & not someone on a "certain social media site" that just enjoys belittling anyone that's inexperienced so they can feel superior. ;) We're just here to help you get it right because we enjoy keeping snakes, & we all know how it feels to be new at this- we were all "new" once upon a time, lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jmcrook

Works just like the thermostat in your home. Set at desired temp and controls the heating element to stay at or near that set temperature. This is the single most important piece of husbandry equipment that any keeper should have.

Below are examples of thermostats in descending order from highest to lowest quality/reliability in my opinion. It’s worth it to shell out for the good equipment.

http://spyderrobotics.com
https://www.reptilebasics.com/thermostats
https://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-Ger.../dp/B000NZZG3S

just ordered my Vivarium Electronics VE-200
from reptile basics. Thank you for supplying the links! I’m excited for this, to not have to feel as stressed! :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...4e0abb6ffa.jpg

Also figured out the Tapatalk! Here’s my set up [emoji38]

Waiting on on thermostat in the mail, hopefully within a week [emoji1695] until then I’ll keep an eye on the heat and mist a little more to keep it down.
(Also the right light usually isn’t on. I just did it for the picture)

Thanks again for everyone’s input and expertise!

Xoxo
KhansDaddyAlittleLessStressed


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Looks great! :cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Looks great! :cool:

---

Thank you [emoji16]

So based on that set up…. When my thermostat comes I want to put the probe at the top of the hide and keep that at 88-90, since he can reach that and lay there? Or I want to put the probe toward the floor? [emoji3526]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Since he can reach it, the top of the hide is best. That way he doesn't get up there and burn since it will be hotter there than under the hide.

Also, make sure not to use any type of tape in the enclosure. You can always try a dollop of aquarium silicone to help keep the probe wire in place. The silicone needs to cure for at least a day before it goes back inside. And directly on the probe can interfere with readings, so just on the wire to hold it there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Armiyana

Also, make sure not to use any type of tape in the enclosure. You can always try a dollop of aquarium silicone to help keep the probe wire in place. The silicone needs to cure for at least a day before it goes back inside. And directly on the probe can interfere with readings, so just on the wire to hold it there.

---

Ahhh thank you for the aquarium silicone tip I will pick some up up to prepare! That will hold ok on the wood cage next to the cage? Or I should attach it directly to the top/side of the hide?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If that was my setup, I would try to get it on the hide itself. It might hold heat better than the side of the enclosure nearby. Maybe someone else can pop in with more tips or tricks though.
Ball Pythons aren't typically a basking species so most go for the belly heat over a lamp for a primary heat source. So it's usually getting stuck to the bottom of the habitat and not a hide like that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Armiyana

If that was my setup, I would try to get it on the hide itself. It might hold heat better than the side of the enclosure nearby. Maybe someone else can pop in with more tips or tricks though.
Ball Pythons aren't typically a basking species so most go for the belly heat over a lamp for a primary heat source. So it's usually getting stuck to the bottom of the habitat and not a hide like that.

---

I don't think siliconing the probe to the top of the hide is going to work. The BP will dislodge it. I would suspend it a couple inches under the ceramic bulb. I've never used ceramic bulbs, but I do use a radiant heat panel (RHP), which works similarly. It's surface temperatures just don't get as hot. With that large an enclosure (4' x 18" x 2'?), you may want to consider switching to an RHP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Homebody

I don't think siliconing the probe to the top of the hide is going to work. The BP will dislodge it. I would suspend it a couple inches under the ceramic bulb. I've never used ceramic bulbs, but I do use a radiant heat panel (RHP), which works similarly. It's surface temperatures just don't get as hot. With that large an enclosure (4' x 18" x 2'?), you may want to consider switching to an RHP.

---

Thanks for the thought. I was kind of thinking the same thing :x but bc I take the hide out and clean it…

I will definitely look into RHP eventually, one expensive equipment at a time :x
These sit inside the cage under the bedding? And is good with the high humidity? I mean I guess so, obviously….


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KhansDaddy

I will definitely look into RHP eventually, one expensive equipment at a time :x
These sit inside the cage under the bedding? And is good with the high humidity? I mean I guess so, obviously….

---

The RHP is fastened to the ceiling and radiates heat downward, like your ceramic bulb.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Armiyana

The silicone needs to cure for at least a day before it goes back inside. And directly on the probe can interfere with readings, so just on the wire to hold it there.

---

Ok just bought some silicone in a tube and my thermostat comes tomorrow!

But I have another silly question [emoji3526] …. You said make sure you cure the sola one for 24 hours before it goes back inside… what does that mean? Let the silicone dry out on a piece of something outside the cage?
Or put it in the cage with the thermostat and put Khan somewhere else for 24 hours? :x sorry a little confused :x


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just got home from work, thermostat is here!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The silicone will make some fumes for the first 24 hours. So it's best to leave him somewhere outside the habitat if you use it inside. If you do try using it on the hide just take the hide out for a bit.
It sounds like the other suggestion was to just let it dangle from the top so you can always try that too.

I just have used silicone for some belly heated tubs and such in the past and not for something like the bulb before. So yeah my recommendation may be a bit off.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Armiyana

The silicone will make some fumes for the first 24 hours. So it's best to leave him somewhere outside the habitat if you use it inside. If you do try using it on the hide just take the hide out for a bit.
It sounds like the other suggestion was to just let it dangle from the top so you can always try that too.

I just have used silicone for some belly heated tubs and such in the past and not for something like the bulb before. So yeah my recommendation may be a bit off.

---

Eveerryythinnngggg is super helpful!

Thank you [emoji38]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Silicone sealant, used to glue things in place, needs time to off-gas (irritating vinegar-like fumes). If you put it on thick, it takes a LONG time to dry- so beware!

It's thick, so it dries from the outside, while the inside is still "wet" & off-gassing- be careful how thick you apply it if you plan for it to be usable soon- your snake should never be breathing it. If YOU can smell it, don't expose your snake to it- house them elsewhere if applying it inside their enclosure while it's drying.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...d05243051d.jpg
Ok! I have my probe siliconed in the left corner! I decided to make his cold hide the taller one (the heat hide isn’t in there yet, it’s with him in his smaller tank) since it was getting to hard to figure out that hot top! (Again, the light on the right isnt usually on).

Thanks again everyone! You are alll amazing! And I’m sure I will be bugging you all again VERY soon [emoji1]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...7366835873.jpg
This poor guy, hiding in his baby tank :x (the hide in there will be in his big cage for his heat hide).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...787ecd6fb3.jpg


Ok. Now that my thermostat is set everything looking ALMOST perfect. My probe is reading 86 which makes right under the heat source ground 88. About 83 in the middle and 79 on the right.

The only weird temp im seeing is still on top of the heat hide (now the small on on the left). The radar gun is marking 95/96. I’ve never seen him really laying on it. … is this a huge problem? All other temps seem to be perfect.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KhansDaddy

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...787ecd6fb3.jpg


Ok. Now that my thermostat is set everything looking ALMOST perfect. My probe is reading 86 which makes right under the heat source ground 88. About 83 in the middle and 79 on the right.

The only weird temp im seeing is still on top of the heat hide (now the small on on the left). The radar gun is marking 95/96. I’ve never seen him really laying on it. … is this a huge problem? All other temps seem to be perfect.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

If it's that hot on top of the small hide, what's the temperature inside it? Because 95* is not safe.

Also, this is perhaps a poor time to mention this, but I'm going to anyway: for best results, we suggest providing 2 identical hides, one for the warm side & one for the cooler side. (You can have more than 2- some also add a humid-hide, & some hides are just decor/cage furniture- like those half-round tree bark tunnels that are too "open" to feel secure as a "hide".)

The reason you want the warm & cool hides to be the same is because snakes usually choose to feel "secure" (safe) rather than choosing the right temperature, if they can't have both at the same time. That means that if one hide feels more "snug", even if it's too warm or too cool, that's where your snake will likely spend most of his time: if it's too cool for good digestion, the snake may regurgitate his meal instead of digesting it. If it's too warm, his metabolism will be in high gear- he'll need to eat more so he doesn't lose weight & will grow slower.

Snakes need the right options to thermoregulate at all times- their first priority is to hide- otherwise (in nature) they're exposed to predators & bad weather, & their second but important consideration is to be warm enough to digest, and also to have a hide where they can cool off as needed. If your snake stays in the smaller "warm" hide most of the time, you can't assume it's only for the temperature- he may not feel safe in that larger one that's so open.

The hides you've provided look cool to us, but from a snake's perspective, the doorways are too big- they don't allow for much privacy. You'd think that companies making them would listen to us by now, but many don't- in part, because people like these & buy them anyway. Snakes don't care how they look, they just want to feel safe inside, & they prefer smaller doorways, lower ceilings (to provide a sense of "back pressure"-aka being snug inside), & only one opening. You might be able to get away with using these hides IF you add more "cover" in front of them as many people do, but you need to be aware of this at the very least.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bogertophis

If it's that hot on top of the small hide, what's the temperature inside it? Because 95* is not safe.

Also, this is perhaps a poor time to mention this, but I'm going to anyway: for best results, we suggest providing 2 identical hides, one for the warm side & one for the cooler side. (You can have more than 2- some also add a humid-hide, & some hides are just decor/cage furniture- like those half-round tree bark tunnels that are too "open" to feel secure as a "hide".)

The reason you want the warm & cool hides to be the same is because snakes usually choose to feel "secure" (safe) rather than choosing the right temperature, if they can't have both at the same time. That means that if one hide feels more "snug", even if it's too warm or too cool, that's where your snake will likely spend most of his time: if it's too cool for good digestion, the snake may regurgitate his meal instead of digesting it. If it's too warm, his metabolism will be in high gear- he'll need to eat more so he doesn't lose weight & will grow slower.

Snakes need the right options to thermoregulate at all times- their first priority is to hide- otherwise (in nature) they're exposed to predators & bad weather, & their second but important consideration is to be warm enough to digest, and also to have a hide where they can cool off as needed. If your snake stays in the smaller "warm" hide most of the time, you can't assume it's only for the temperature- he may not feel safe in that larger one that's so open.

The hides you've provided look cool to us, but from a snake's perspective, the doorways are too big- they don't allow for much privacy. You'd think that companies making them would listen to us by now, but many don't- in part, because people like these & buy them anyway. Snakes don't care how they look, they just want to feel safe inside, & they prefer smaller doorways, lower ceilings (to provide a sense of "back pressure"-aka being snug inside), & only one opening. You might be able to get away with using these hides IF you add more "cover" in front of them as many people do, but you need to be aware of this at the very least.

---

Ok. I will definitely work on getting better hides/camouflaging a little better.

But for now…. That’s the thing, inside the hide is 88. And everywhere around the hide is 86-88. It’s just directly on top of the hide bc it’s under the heat source I guess.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KhansDaddy

The only weird temp im seeing is still on top of the heat hide (now the small on on the left). The radar gun is marking 95/96. I’ve never seen him really laying on it. … is this a huge problem? All other temps seem to be perfect.

---

Nah. You're good. Keep an eye on it though. 96 degrees is on the outer edge of the safe basking range.

Is it that hot on that nearby "black branch thing"? I don't picture him lying on top of this hide (because he'd feel too exposed- BPs are more active at night & not inclined to bask), but he could easily crawl over it at times. Not sure how you can fix this- will think about it...:confusd:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Is it that hot on that nearby "black branch thing"? I don't picture him lying on top of this hide (because he'd feel too exposed- BPs are more active at night & not inclined to bask), but he could easily crawl over it at times. Not sure how you can fix this- will think about it...:confusd:

---

I just checked the black branch it comes in 88, 90 at the closed to the heat.

The hide comes really hot directly under it. Even the other side of the top is significantly cooler so I guess. I will try scooting it over for now. Maybe it’s just getting too hot bc of what it’s made of…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Maybe he was a little hot [emoji2373] maybe he was on strike [emoji2373] buuuuttttttttt

Temps are good now and Khan finally ate today!!

Thanks again everyone!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KhansDaddy

Maybe he was a little hot [emoji2373] maybe he was on strike [emoji2373] buuuuttttttttt

Temps are good now and Khan finally ate today!!

Thanks again everyone!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

Thats great news! Consider triple checking the temps around the enclosure regularly. I get the feeling that the probe needs to be repositioned closer to the actual ceramic heat emitter. You might have to tweak it going forward. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Albert Clark

Thats great news! Consider triple checking the temps around the enclosure regularly. I get the feeling that the probe needs to be repositioned closer to the actual ceramic heat emitter. You might have to tweak it going forward. :)

---

Ahhh? I hope not! I siliconed that thing in there to stayyy [emoji3526] I have been checking the temps like a FREAK since I put it in. Lol.

I keep it set at 86. That makes RIGHt under the bulb about 89 abd the cool size 78/79. And the middle is right 83/4.

BUT bc of this experience I will definitely keep checking… like a freak [emoji38] thanks for keeping me aware!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KhansDaddy

Ahhh? I hope not! I siliconed that thing in there to stayyy [emoji3526]...

---

Now you know why we suggest fully testing the heat in all enclosures before any snakes move in. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Now you know why we suggest fully testing the heat in all enclosures before any snakes move in. ;)

---

We all have to learn our own why right?!? [emoji3526][emoji2361]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KhansDaddy

We all have to learn our own why right?!? [emoji3526][emoji2361]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

It happens a lot, & even with pre-testing the set-ups, sometimes further tweaking is needed. ;) Anyway, I'd say you're doing quite well- it's the ones that never double-check things...:O

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...4a329e80ac.jpg

Project hiding places in full effect! [emoji38]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...19afeb4617.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...6aa35795f0.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...1b0b4eb439.jpg

You guys, Khan is doing so so good now that the temps are perfect and I gave him some greenery!!

He’s eating annnnddd he just shed. All in one piece, perfectly! [emoji847]

I was told Khan was a spider ball. How does he look to you guys?

Hope your having a great Monday!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I love that last picture- he looks happy just to hang with you, lol. :gj: Good looking BP!

I agree on Khan having the spider gene.

He looks so comfy. Also looks like he's a good weight and fasting hadn't affected him too much.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Armiyana

I agree on Khan having the spider gene.

He looks so comfy. Also looks like he's a good weight and fasting hadn't affected him too much.

---

Oh good! I had no idea about his weight [emoji2373] he’s my first ball (obviously). I guess I should bring a scale home tomorrow from work so I can weigh him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Khan looks amazing! His head stamp is really intriguing and strong. I love his body tone and symmetry. Very cool Spider ball. Grats!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Albert Clark

Khan looks amazing! His head stamp is really intriguing and strong. I love his body tone and symmetry. Very cool Spider ball. Grats!

---

Thank you!!

I’m not going to lie :x ….. when I first got him I didn’t think he was very special :x but he started growing and getting more vibrant… and then I noticed his head stamp and how pronounced it was and how other bp didn’t have it…

…. Now I feel so so bad I ever felt that way about him :x lol ugh [emoji2361]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk