pvc heating issues (again)

hi friends..

i built an awesome 4x2x2 pvc enclosure for my boy and Nothing i do seems to be making it reach temp at the floor of the enclosure where little man is.

100 watt CHE - nope
150 watt CHE - nope (dimmer and thermostat)
now 80 watt radiant heat panel - nada

im at my wits end and beyond frustrated. we’ve spent so much time, effort, and money on this enclosure and it isn’t suitable for my buddy. the highest we’ve seen it get was 83. the poor guy is climbing his branches just to get to the warmth.

i’ll take and try any advice offered. i’m begging lol.

Use the RHP for the air temp and add a UTH.

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Originally Posted by KMG

Use the RHP for the air temp and add a UTH.

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because of the thickness of the pvc i can’t attach it underneath. however, would attaching the UTH to a piece of glass so he’s not on it directly and then shoving it inside the cage be an option?

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Originally Posted by goatasaurus

because of the thickness of the pvc i can’t attach it underneath. however, would attaching the UTH to a piece of glass so he’s not on it directly and then shoving it inside the cage be an option?

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Only if you can guarantee liquid could not reach it.

How thick is the floor?

The thickest cage floors I have are on my Animal Plastic cages and are a 1/2. A UTH works fine with them.

Yes to adding UTH- but keep in mind that it will take a WHILE for heat to get thru thick material like PVC or wood- so be sure to keep a close eye- it's safer to fully test this set-up for a week without any live occupants in the enclosure- while you adjust the power to the UTH & get the temps. where you need them (thermostat recommended) I use UTH for ALL my snakes. ;)

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Originally Posted by KMG

The thickest cage floors I have are on my Animal Plastic cages and are a 1/2. A UTH works fine with them.

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i can try both methods. water shouldn’t touch it.

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Originally Posted by goatasaurus

because of the thickness of the pvc i can’t attach it underneath. however, would attaching the UTH to a piece of glass so he’s not on it directly and then shoving it inside the cage be an option?

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A better option might be to looking into the heat pads sold for canine whelping quarters & farm animals (aka "pig blanket"), since they're made sealed & safe for moisture & outdoor use. Then you could have it right inside the enclosure, instead of trying to get heat thru a thick enclosure bottom.

This is one kind I located quickly & it comes in 3 sizes: (I used to have & use a couple similar ones made for dogs that were insulated hard plastic, but same idea.)
https://www.chewy.com/kh-pet-product...tdoor/dp/46435

We use one of those for our rabbit. It doesn't get very hot at all but works to keep her warm when it gets frosty out. I second this suggestion. :gj:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

A better option might be to looking into the heat pads sold for canine whelping quarters & farm animals (aka "pig blanket"), since they're made sealed & safe for moisture & outdoor use. Then you could have it right inside the enclosure, instead of trying to get heat thru a thick enclosure bottom.

This is one kind I located quickly & it comes in 3 sizes: (I used to have & use a couple similar ones made for dogs that were insulated hard plastic, but same idea.)
https://www.chewy.com/kh-pet-product...tdoor/dp/46435

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o: i am absolutely gonna look further into that!

it seems i should just pop the UTH in and let the RHP keep the ambient at 84. thanks a lot everyone!

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Originally Posted by Spicey

We use one of those for our rabbit. It doesn't get very hot at all but works to keep her warm when it gets frosty out. I second this suggestion. :gj:

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So in a snake enclosure, it might well be the perfect amount of warmth where it's needed- instead of trying to push heat in from "outside" & underneath a thick cage bottom with typical UTH.

Good, let us know how that goes? I hope it solves your problem.

The hard plastic ones I had (many years back) were made by "Lectro-Kennel" brand. I only looked @ Chewy, but there may also be other brands thru other sources on Amazon, Petco, etc. Always nice to have options.

The one issue you might have is accommodating the cable- it's not a simple lamp cord that can be cut off & the plug easily replaced (to pass the cord thru a small hole), so you'll have to plan to make a bigger hole in the PVC & then patch it. Oh well...nothing's perfect. ;)

It works fine on my thick AP cage. Just a thin UTH gives all the heat I need. It is completely outside the enclosure and I didn't have to drill a hole and figure out how to run the power cord through the wall.

I know the heating pad being suggested but do not know of one with a detachable cord. So you will either need to make a large hole for the plug to pass through or cut the cord and redo the plug to keep the hole small.

If you have vents you may be able to remove one and run the cord through the edge but that will depend on where they are and how they are attached. It seems like a good bit of work when you could simply put a UTH under it and be done.

This is the one I am running under that cage. It is super thin so it gives no rise. I just have the plastic connection sitting right up against the back of the cage so that it is not under any pressure.

https://www.amazon.com/Flukers-29052.../dp/B00164K2H0

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Originally Posted by KMG

It works fine on my thick AP cage. Just a thin UTH gives all the heat I need. It is completely outside the enclosure and I didn't have to drill a hole and figure out how to run the power cord through the wall.

I know the heating pad being suggested but do not know of one with a detachable cord. So you will either need to make a large hole for the plug to pass through or cut the cord and redo the plug to keep the hole small.

If you have vents you may be able to remove one and run the cord through the edge but that will depend on where they are and how they are attached. It seems like a good bit of work when you could simply put a UTH under it and be done.

This is the one I am running under that cage. It is super thin so it gives no rise. I just have the plastic connection sitting right up against the back of the cage so that it is not under any pressure.

https://www.amazon.com/Flukers-29052.../dp/B00164K2H0

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you guys are awesome; thanks so much for all the suggestions!

i have his old UTH from his previous enclosure which is the zoomed medium for 30-40 gallons. that’s gonna be my first try (to save money lol)!

By all means, try it- test it- it may work okay, but if not, you have some options. That's one thing I've always liked about keeping snakes- that it inspires some creativity, to get it right for each of our scaly buddies.

A UTH will work through a thick floor, it just needs time to heat up. I have them under 1/2" melamine enclosures and they are fine. One benefit is that once the floor comes up to the required temperature it tends to stay at a constant temperature and not swing, because of the floor's thermal mass.

ok so while he was out of the enclosure i experimented by plugging the RHP in with no thermostat.

it certainly has the capability to reach proper temps. but without the thermostat it was Way too hot (over 100). so that means it’s my thermostat that is the problem. i use the zilla one found in most stores; it worked perfect for his previous enclosure and i have another on my hognose’s 10 gallon (he’s a baby).

so i ask now..

does the thermostat just not have the power to properly heat it?
if that’s not the issue, any idea why the thermostat isn’t powering it right?
what thermostats do you recommend i try instead (please keep budget in mind..)

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Originally Posted by goatasaurus

ok so while he was out of the enclosure i experimented by plugging the RHP in with no thermostat.

it certainly has the capability to reach proper temps. but without the thermostat it was Way too hot (over 100). so that means it’s my thermostat that is the problem. i use the zilla one found in most stores; it worked perfect for his previous enclosure and i have another on my hognose’s 10 gallon (he’s a baby).

so i ask now..

does the thermostat just not have the power to properly heat it?
if that’s not the issue, any idea why the thermostat isn’t powering it right?
what thermostats do you recommend i try instead (please keep budget in mind..)

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Where is the thermostat probe?

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Originally Posted by goatasaurus

i built an awesome 4x2x2 pvc enclosure for my boy and Nothing i do seems to be making it reach temp at the floor of the enclosure where little man is.

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I think your problem is that 2 feet is too far for a RHP to reach. You could build a basking platform to get your snake closer to the RHP (see Reptile Basics VE Radiant Heat Panel FAQ).

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Originally Posted by bcr229

Where is the thermostat probe?

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just outside his hide at the floor of the enclosure. since that’s where he hangs out i figured it needed to be there.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

I think your problem is that 2 feet is too far for a RHP to reach. You could build a basking platform to get your snake closer to the RHP (see Reptile Basics VE Radiant Heat Panel FAQ).

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Great idea- & worth trying, but not all snakes will be bold enough or feel comfortable to climb or use something so "out in the open"- unless maybe you add privacy to it somehow.

Add a basking shelf, here's an example:
https://apcages.com/products/carpet-...-basking-shelf

Put a hide on it and use wall mirror hangers to ensure the hide stays on the shelf, but you can rotate the hangers to remove the hide if you need to clean it.

I prefer a proportional tstat, not a on/off.

I mount my probes like this but I don't think that will work well if your probe is what I'm thinking it is.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...91#post2359891

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Originally Posted by Homebody

I think your problem is that 2 feet is too far for a RHP to reach. You could build a basking platform to get your snake closer to the RHP (see Reptile Basics VE Radiant Heat Panel FAQ).

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I have an 8x4x4 (lxwxh) with a rhp in it and has no problem heating the floor to 91°+

what are you using to check your temps?

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Originally Posted by Waterman

I have an 8x4x4 (lxwxh) with a rhp in it and has no problem heating the floor to 91°+

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Really?! What brand do you use? Is it positioned on the side?

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Originally Posted by Homebody

Really?! What brand do you use? Is it positioned on the side?

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300 watt pro products radiant heat panel connected to a herpstat. Animal plastics cage. It’s hung on the ceiling.

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Originally Posted by Waterman

300 watt pro products radiant heat panel connected to a herpstat. Animal plastics cage. It’s hung on the ceiling.

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Good to know. I didn't know they came in 300 watt versions. If I ever build a 8x4x4, I'll give Pro Products a call.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

Good to know. I didn't know they came in 300 watt versions. If I ever build a 8x4x4, I'll give Pro Products a call.

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It’s a big panel. Measures 3’x2’. Expensive as well lol. In the case of the op here, it could be multiple things…heat panel too small/under powered or even defective, thermostat issues, how they are measuring the temps…is 83 the air temp or the ground temp taken with a temp gun? Even substrate can play a role with how the temps are measured believe it or not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KMG

I prefer a proportional tstat, not a on/off.

I mount my probes like this but I don't think that will work well if your probe is what I'm thinking it is.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...91#post2359891

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what thermostat do you prefer?

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Originally Posted by Waterman

It’s a big panel. Measures 3’x2’. Expensive as well lol. In the case of the op here, it could be multiple things…heat panel too small/under powered or even defective, thermostat issues, how they are measuring the temps…is 83 the air temp or the ground temp taken with a temp gun? Even substrate can play a role with how the temps are measured believe it or not.

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83 is the temp my thermometer’s probe is reading. i don’t have a temp gun so that’s how i’m reading my temps

now the substrate issue is interesting; i’m gonna try moving the probes to another location away from the substrate and see if that helps

Quote:

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Originally Posted by goatasaurus

i don’t have a temp gun so that’s how i’m reading my temps

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An IR temp gun is a necessity for keeping a snake. Temp of the thermostat probe tells almost nothing. Temp of the snake is what counts, and the snake does not want you to put the probe where it will read accurately....;)

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Originally Posted by goatasaurus

83 is the temp my thermometer’s probe is reading. i don’t have a temp gun so that’s how i’m reading my temps

now the substrate issue is interesting; i’m gonna try moving the probes to another location away from the substrate and see if that helps

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your ground temp is higher than what that’s reading. My anacondas hot spot for example, thermometer reads 83-84 (ambient air temps) while the floor under the heat panel is 87/88 taken with a temp gun. Similar my burm cage thermometer reads 84-85, floor reads 90-91 with a temp gun.

Where is your probe located?

This seems like a thermostat or a probe issue. I'd recommend upgrading to a Herpstat proportional thermostat. The proportional feature is amazing.

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