Fish/Invert only Saltwater

I had a saltwater tank 10 years ago but had to give it up. I started up a 20 gallon recently that will be fish and invert only. Corals are beautiful, but I'm not ready to get that deep into it. I just really like saltwater fish. An insane amount of equipment and information has changed since I last kept fish so I'm learning a lot every day. Fish keeping is a lot more 'fly by the seat of your pants' care than reptile keeping.

I added some fake corals. I wasn't sure if I would like them but they bring some nice color.

Inhabitants at the moment:

2 Clowns
1 Peppermint Shrimp
1 Tiger Conch
4 Astraea Snail
1 Banded trochus snail

I'll let Genjo introduce the tank! He was interested in the ocean smell. Excuse the giant white filter sponge. I'm seeding it with bacteria for a quarantine tank.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/8cLrYTH.jpg



My first fish inhabitants are a couple of clowns. Sometimes they fight with each when figuring out which will be male and female but these two have been getting along.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/iYk8VJu.jpg

This peppermint shrimp often turns into a Richard. When he's hungry he'll go after anything, but he's fun to watch and feed. He roots out pest hitchhikers like pest anemone and sea stars.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/mdEuap4.jpg

This tiger conch is crazy looking. The shrimp will harass the conch when it gets hungry. I feed the shrimp with tweezers so I know it gets food but if I ever go away for more than a day I think I will put the shrimp in a breeder net/shrimp jail. When I first added the conch the shrimp wouldn't leave it alone so I turned on the wave maker. The shrimp turned translucent (meaning its upset) and did laps around the tank with the current.

I pick the conch up and move it to places where there's a lot of algae on the send bed or on the glass near the bottom and it cleans the stuff right up.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/oxOUaSa.jpg

Ocellaris Clownfish have a lot of color/stripe variety. When I went to get my fish I had a hard time telling the basic coloration from some of the other patterns. I forgot they use the term 'designer' so I asked for the 'regular morph'. I wonder if that gave me away as a reptile keeper.

Reefs can be so rewarding but it is so much more work and initial investment so I'm totally feeling you on that choice! Right this minute the fake coral is looking a bit out of place, but as your coraline develops I think it will really look nice in there.

You have a nice little group of animals. Clowns will always be one of my favorites. It's really hard to beat their contrast and bright coloration at such a reasonable price and hardy animal. Plus they aren't quite the jerks damsels can be and stay moderately small :P I've never messed around with marine shrimp, but they look really cool and I know some species are really great with cleanup.

Looking forward to updates :)

I always admire a reef tank when I see one. I know how much care was put into them when I see them.

The tank looked funny/naked and still does. There is some coralline growth and I can't wait for it to take over.

I cycled my first tank with a blue damsel and that thing was the devil to everything I put in after it. Never again.

Shrimp can be...hit or miss. Peppermint shrimp do a good job of eating critters and left over food off the sand bed and rocks. Downside is they can be coral and snail eaters if they get too hungry. They come running when its dinner time. They have a bloodhound sense of smell and will swim up the water column to try and catch food floating down.

Looks good. Clowns are awesome to watch more so when they pair up. I have a pair of mocha storm occelaris in my 112 gallon tank. careful though its a addiction I started small went to a 65 then to a 112, and now planning a 200 gallon haha. My bank account hates me.

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Originally Posted by Stormyvt

Looks good. Clowns are awesome to watch more so when they pair up. I have a pair of mocha storm occelaris in my 112 gallon tank. careful though its a addiction I started small went to a 65 then to a 112, and now planning a 200 gallon haha. My bank account hates me.

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Clownfish are one of my favorites and I hope they pair up. Moca storms are so cool. I'd love to see pics of your current tank and your new one whenever you get it setup. Both of those are huge! I can't even imagine how you do water changes on those monsters.

I wanted a black and white clown but I wasn't willing to spend that much on my first fish after so long. So far so good, though. I keep them in my home office so I can look at them when thinking or need a screen break.

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Originally Posted by Trinityblood

I cycled my first tank with a blue damsel and that thing was the devil to everything I put in after it. Never again.

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Right there with you! I had a domino damsel that was the same way. Moved him to an established tank with pretty aggressive species once he got big and he did good in there but geez.

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Originally Posted by Stormyvt

I have a pair of mocha storm occelaris in my 112 gallon tank. careful though its a addiction I started small went to a 65 then to a 112, and now planning a 200 gallon haha. My bank account hates me.

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Yep. It grows and grows just like the reptiles. Some of the designer clowns being produced these days those are insanely cool.

im trying to get some picture but can't figure how to upload from my iPhone. ill post some when I figure it out sorry. I think I have the wrong file format and im not very good with computers.

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Originally Posted by Stormyvt

im trying to get some picture but can't figure how to upload from my iPhone. ill post some when I figure it out sorry. I think I have the wrong file format and im not very good with computers.

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This may help: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-Post-Pictures

Nice to see a thread for your tank, Trinityblood! Hopefully I'll have a thread of my own like this up and running in a few years. ;)

Yeah, clownfish are a lot less aggressive than other damselfish. Between them and the peppermint shrimp, I think you've got a nice selection of fairy hardy early inhabitants there. I'd definitely hold off on adding anything else until your tank is at least three months old, though. Marine tanks take a bit more time to establish and stabilize compared to freshwater ones.

Little fighting conchs like yours can actually be a bit tricky to keep alive, particularly in small tanks. If your shrimp is trying to steal its food while you feed, try occupying your shrimp by hand-feeding it, instead of using current to push it away or putting it in a breeding net. I hand-fed the fish and shrimp in my reef tank and it worked like a charm - the bolder critters like my percula clowns and cleaner shrimp would come and eat out of my fingers, while the other critters fed on the bits of food that drifted away from the block. Little bits of dried seaweed sheet left near the bottom may also be a nice little snack for your conch to feed on.

If you'd like to add a little something colorful and coral-like in the future, try looking into mushroom corals/polyps and Zoanthus polyps. They aren't particularly demanding in terms of water quality, lighting, and trace minerals and tend to do well in smaller tanks.

I converted one from my old tank my blues are on now and can't get a picture to come out right. this is Stormy in her frogspawn she was hosting before I moved her to the 112. Now she has her little buddy Hurricane. https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...6da6f615ac.jpg

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Originally Posted by WrongPython

Nice to see a thread for your tank, Trinityblood! Hopefully I'll have a thread of my own like this up and running in a few years. ;)

Yeah, clownfish are a lot less aggressive than other damselfish. Between them and the peppermint shrimp, I think you've got a nice selection of fairy hardy early inhabitants there. I'd definitely hold off on adding anything else until your tank is at least three months old, though. Marine tanks take a bit more time to establish and stabilize compared to freshwater ones.

Little fighting conchs like yours can actually be a bit tricky to keep alive, particularly in small tanks. If your shrimp is trying to steal its food while you feed, try occupying your shrimp by hand-feeding it, instead of using current to push it away or putting it in a breeding net. I hand-fed the fish and shrimp in my reef tank and it worked like a charm - the bolder critters like my percula clowns and cleaner shrimp would come and eat out of my fingers, while the other critters fed on the bits of food that drifted away from the block. Little bits of dried seaweed sheet left near the bottom may also be a nice little snack for your conch to feed on.

If you'd like to add a little something colorful and coral-like in the future, try looking into mushroom corals/polyps and Zoanthus polyps. They aren't particularly demanding in terms of water quality, lighting, and trace minerals and tend to do well in smaller tanks.

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I can't wait to see your thread once you decide it's time for a tank!

I work at home all day and when I see the conch grazing I constantly move it to more algae dense areas of the tank and will setit right over sinking pellets or nori seaweed. It seems to ignore the seaweed. I hand feed the pellets to the shrimp with tongs and its all too eager to take them. It will climb up them and be all over my fingers. Not a shred of fear in that thing. It even comes out of the rocks when I approach the tank. I hope to keep them both well fed as the tank matures more. I didn't think I would get so into the inverts but I'm spending more time making sure they're fed and not causing drama than the fish!

Is a tiger conch a type of fighting conch? Ithought they were different?

I was only going to stick the shrimp in a net if I left for more than a day because I don't trust it to not try to eat the conch when it gets hungry. The shrimp already flipped the conch once.

My plan is to put a yellow clown goby, or one with a royal gramma, in a quarantine tank. Once I get that tank cycled. And observe/medicate if needed while the other tank matures more. I want to add the clown goby to the main tank, then if I have the gramma, add it two weeks after. Or I may just go with the Gramma... I'm not sure if that would be too much of a load for a 20gallon. That would be a process that should line up with 3 months or more.

Thanks for the suggestions!

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Originally Posted by Stormyvt

I converted one from my old tank my blues are on now and can't get a picture to come out right. this is Stormy in her frogspawn she was hosting before I moved her to the 112. Now she has her little buddy Hurricane. https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...6da6f615ac.jpg

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Wow, the frogspawn and clown are gorgeous! The clown's pattern kind of reminds me of a paint horse.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to starting up the reef tank again! It'll probably be a few years before that happens, though. They're a real pain to move, even something as small as a 30 gallon. Whenever it happens, I'll either be doing a percula clown and bubbletip anemone tank or a small soft and LPS coral reef with gobies and shrimp.

Tiger conchs and fighting conchs are probably the same conch, just by a different common name. Yours looks just like the fighting conch I used to have. If you continue to have trouble with your shrimp bullying your conch, try deepening the sand bed a bit. The conch should make use of the deeper sandbed to burrow away from the shrimp.

Two Ocellaris clowns, a peppermint shrimp, and a clown goby will definitely be okay in a 20 gallon if your tank is established and your filtration is sufficient. The addition of the royal gramma is where things get iffy. They're more active than the clownfish and clown goby, and more suited to a 30 gallon tank than a 20 gallon. Try adding your clown goby, seeing how things work out, and going from there.

Thank you for posting Trinityblood. Nice looking tank and fish.

I've found keeping fish, in general, is more demanding than reptiles.

The technology has improved for both reptile keeping and fish keeping, making both hobbies easier, but reptiles have a little more margin for error in general. You still cannot get away from water changes in fish tanks, which are more demanding and prone to error than changing paper in a reptile tank (or whatever substrate you use).

I also think the amount of information out there is better and more accessible. There is still bad info and people who don't want to learn how to do things properly or think they know better. However, if you want good info, you can usually find it. When I was kid, you couldn't Google "Nitrogen Cycle" or "Reptile Thermostat." I was super reliant back then on books and pet store staff. Not always a good thing.

Anyway, I digressed. I really like tank and I am glad you started a post on your tank.

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Originally Posted by WrongPython

Yeah, I'm looking forward to starting up the reef tank again! It'll probably be a few years before that happens, though. They're a real pain to move, even something as small as a 30 gallon. Whenever it happens, I'll either be doing a percula clown and bubbletip anemone tank or a small soft and LPS coral reef with gobies and shrimp.

Tiger conchs and fighting conchs are probably the same conch, just by a different common name. Yours looks just like the fighting conch I used to have. If you continue to have trouble with your shrimp bullying your conch, try deepening the sand bed a bit. The conch should make use of the deeper sandbed to burrow away from the shrimp.

Two Ocellaris clowns, a peppermint shrimp, and a clown goby will definitely be okay in a 20 gallon if your tank is established and your filtration is sufficient. The addition of the royal gramma is where things get iffy. They're more active than the clownfish and clown goby, and more suited to a 30 gallon tank than a 20 gallon. Try adding your clown goby, seeing how things work out, and going from there.

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That's part of what kept me away from tanks, too. Moving too much.

That sounds like an awesome setup. Can't wait.

I believe Tiger/Fighting conchs are different. The tiger conch goes by a few different names (like strawberry) and fighting isn't one of them. Their scientific names are different, too. Correct me if I'm wrong. Tiger seems the smaller of the two species.

Tiger: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conomurex_luhuanus

Fighting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strombus

Yes, for sure. I've been adding livestock in stages and will be waiting longer before deciding when/how to add. Goby is a safe bet a bit later on. Gramma is, as you say, the iffy one.

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Originally Posted by dakski

Thank you for posting Trinityblood. Nice looking tank and fish.

I've found keeping fish, in general, is more demanding than reptiles.

The technology has improved for both reptile keeping and fish keeping, making both hobbies easier, but reptiles have a little more margin for error in general. You still cannot get away from water changes in fish tanks, which are more demanding and prone to error than changing paper in a reptile tank (or whatever substrate you use).

I also think the amount of information out there is better and more accessible. There is still bad info and people who don't want to learn how to do things properly or think they know better. However, if you want good info, you can usually find it. When I was kid, you couldn't Google "Nitrogen Cycle" or "Reptile Thermostat." I was super reliant back then on books and pet store staff. Not always a good thing.

Anyway, I digressed. I really like tank and I am glad you started a post on your tank.

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Thanks!

Funny, I got a reptile partly to convince myself to not get fish. But the itch didn't go away....It didn't for 10 years and I kidded myself lol. They're different worlds in terms of care but both so interesting to learn about and care for. Reptiles are like caring for the animal specifically. Fish is caring for an entire ecosystem.

I hear you on the accessibility part. Back then I got my info from the local fish store and my high school teacher who was teaching the marine class I was in. I was taught to cycle with a fish (with no bacteria in a bottle or tips to use prime to reduce ammonia) and had never heard of using a heater. Good thing I never owned a beta. It probably would have lived in a fish bowl. I never would have gotten my ball python if it weren't for all the information on the internet, either. I was exposed to snake keeping that way and all the info made me appreciate the animal and confidant in jumping into owning one though I don't know a soul in real life who owns a reptile.

I'll be waiting for Lincoln updates too!

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Originally Posted by Trinityblood

Thanks!

Funny, I got a reptile partly to convince myself to not get fish. But the itch didn't go away....It didn't for 10 years and I kidded myself lol. They're different worlds in terms of care but both so interesting to learn about and care for. Reptiles are like caring for the animal specifically. Fish is caring for an entire ecosystem.

I hear you on the accessibility part. Back then I got my info from the local fish store and my high school teacher who was teaching the marine class I was in. I was taught to cycle with a fish (with no bacteria in a bottle or tips to use prime to reduce ammonia) and had never heard of using a heater. Good thing I never owned a beta. It probably would have lived in a fish bowl. I never would have gotten my ball python if it weren't for all the information on the internet, either. I was exposed to snake keeping that way and all the info made me appreciate the animal and confidant in jumping into owning one though I don't know a soul in real life who owns a reptile.

I'll be waiting for Lincoln updates too!

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"Reptiles are like caring for the animal specifically. Fish is caring for an entire ecosystem."

I really l like the way you said this. I agree 90% with the reptile part and 100% with the fish part.

I think some aspects of reptile keeping, like dealing with humidity, can be a little more ecosystem like, but in general, given how forgiving most reptiles are comparatively, it's so much less of an issue. Plus, once you have humidity and temps dialed in, the amount of times you have to address is minimal. Of course, given that you can really interact with a reptile, you do look at the animal much more than the tank. It's also much more about meeting that animal's needs than trying to balance the chemistry of fish tank.

Fish tanks are always changing and are fluid (no pun intended) and linear. My boas can go two weeks or more without wasting or eating, so all I am doing is checking and maintaining temps and humidity (which modern tech like PVC cages and thermostats, etc. make easy). Then cleaning up when needed. A fish tank, like Lincoln's (yes even a 4G) is consistently building waste product and eventually that waste (in the form of nitrate) needs to be removed and regularly. There are other factors that go into it too. You have treat water, get it to temp, etc. You can't just throw it into your tank.

Anyway, definitely not trying to be argumentative. Just trying to elaborate and give my two cents.

I appreciate your thorough and accurate assessments and feedback on this site.

Yeah, sadly, I lost reptiles when I was young (RIP) due to not knowing how to properly care for them (and getting WC and sick animals not knowing any better). I swore that when I was older and could take care of them the right way, I would get back in the hobby. I've made it somewhat of a life mission to not only care for my crew, but also help others not make my mistakes and learn how to care for their animals as well.

I imagine maturity and age (and wisdom?) has helped me become a much better reptile keeper. However, I am convinced that a combination of resources (both my financial resources vs. when I was a kid and information and technology available to me and other keepers) has made it possible for me to keep as many animals as I do and with relative ease.

I'll definitely keep everyone in the loop on Lincoln and the reptile crew!

P.S. I'd have big fish tanks too if I had the time, energy, space, etc. I am limited especially on the first two. I wish my health was better, but know I am blessed having as many animals as I do, and some great ones at that. I also want to be able to give everyone proper attention and not just "have" them.

Nice little setup! I'm the opposite on saltwater, I only want coral and no fish lol, my one tank has a clownfish I was given and she is the worst, so territorial she bites me anytime I'm in the tank and literally jumps out when I feed if I'm not careful. I love inverts and coral though, there's so many tiny cool crabs and shrimp in the hobby.

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Originally Posted by dakski

"Reptiles are like caring for the animal specifically. Fish is caring for an entire ecosystem."

I really l like the way you said this. I agree 90% with the reptile part and 100% with the fish part.

I think some aspects of reptile keeping, like dealing with humidity, can be a little more ecosystem like, but in general, given how forgiving most reptiles are comparatively, it's so much less of an issue. Plus, once you have humidity and temps dialed in, the amount of times you have to address is minimal. Of course, given that you can really interact with a reptile, you do look at the animal much more than the tank. It's also much more about meeting that animal's needs than trying to balance the chemistry of fish tank.

Fish tanks are always changing and are fluid (no pun intended) and linear. My boas can go two weeks or more without wasting or eating, so all I am doing is checking and maintaining temps and humidity (which modern tech like PVC cages and thermostats, etc. make easy). Then cleaning up when needed. A fish tank, like Lincoln's (yes even a 4G) is consistently building waste product and eventually that waste (in the form of nitrate) needs to be removed and regularly. There are other factors that go into it too. You have treat water, get it to temp, etc. You can't just throw it into your tank.

Anyway, definitely not trying to be argumentative. Just trying to elaborate and give my two cents.

I appreciate your thorough and accurate assessments and feedback on this site.

Yeah, sadly, I lost reptiles when I was young (RIP) due to not knowing how to properly care for them (and getting WC and sick animals not knowing any better). I swore that when I was older and could take care of them the right way, I would get back in the hobby. I've made it somewhat of a life mission to not only care for my crew, but also help others not make my mistakes and learn how to care for their animals as well.

I imagine maturity and age (and wisdom?) has helped me become a much better reptile keeper. However, I am convinced that a combination of resources (both my financial resources vs. when I was a kid and information and technology available to me and other keepers) has made it possible for me to keep as many animals as I do and with relative ease.

I'll definitely keep everyone in the loop on Lincoln and the reptile crew!

P.S. I'd have big fish tanks too if I had the time, energy, space, etc. I am limited especially on the first two. I wish my health was better, but know I am blessed having as many animals as I do, and some great ones at that. I also want to be able to give everyone proper attention and not just "have" them.

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My statement was general. I agree with everything you said. A reptile's environment is still important.

You've learned from your mistakes! And its cool that you know your limits. That's hard to do sometimes. I, too, am at my limit for keeping critters. 2 dogs, 1 snake, and 1 fish tank is perfect for me. I may get another snake, but not for several years. I am enjoying improving the lives of the animals I have and appreciate their presence.

I have been learning a lot on this site from everyone's opinions. I don't chime in on care just yet since I haven't even had my snake for a year, but I'm always reading y'alls solutions for other users and seeing if I can use that for my snake care.

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Originally Posted by GoingPostal

Nice little setup! I'm the opposite on saltwater, I only want coral and no fish lol, my one tank has a clownfish I was given and she is the worst, so territorial she bites me anytime I'm in the tank and literally jumps out when I feed if I'm not careful. I love inverts and coral though, there's so many tiny cool crabs and shrimp in the hobby.

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Thanks! I can see why. Corals are awesome. Maybe if you put the clown in a breeder net for a day or two, or rearrange the clown's hosting spot it will calm down?

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/7hMR2jg.jpg

That bugger shrimp was picking on the conch this morning. I fed the shrimp a pellet. It ate it and went back to the conch. I buried the conch but it wasn't having it and popped right back out of the sand. Right now I have the conch caged off till the shrimp loses interest.

The conch sadly didn't make it. It was either killed by the shrimp, harassed so much by the shrimp that it stopped eating and starved, or it was already on its way out when I added it to the tank and the shrimp could tell. It was eating both algae and pellets fine whenever the shrimp was off it, but it didn't work out.

The ammonia spiked after its death so I dosed dechlorinator and did a water change. The other inhabitants were unaffected by the ammonia several days later.

I'm starting to get a hair algae bloom. A normal occurrence for new tanks. The ugly phase. The coralline algae will eventually outgrow it and outcompete the hair algae, but not for a long while. I might be grabbing a couple more snails.

Hitchhikers:

I keep finding limbs and half bodied asternia sea stars climbing the walls of the tank and I purge them whenever I find them. I hope they don't explode in population. They're not harmful, but i'd rather not end up with hundreds of them plastered to the walls of the tank.

Collonista snails are starting to pop up. They usually explode in population with algae. They can become so numerous that they start clogging up equipment so I'm watching them for now. May start removing them on sight.

spotted some parasitic snails that latch onto the astreas. I keep removing them on sight.

Saw a single chiton. Good algae grazer and hope there's more of them.

I haven't seen any types of worms. I may just be bad at spotting them.

On an upside, I haven't seen a single aphasia since adding the shrimp.

I'd take some pics of the hitchhikers, but I'd need a macro camera. Anything else and they are just a blur.

Other:

The clowns were moved to the quarantine tank. One of them was showing clear signs of a parasitic infection that is for sure not velvet or brook...so I'm going to treat both clowns and let the main tank go fallow for 3 months.

I thought tank bred fish would have better health quality control, but I guess not. Disappointing.

Thank you for the update.

Sorry to hear you are having some issues.

I hope the clowns recover fully.

Good luck and keep us posted.

The tank should balance itself out eventually. I just need to tend it until it finds that balance.

I think the clowns will do fine so long as I don't mess up copper dosing once I finish the round of General Cure that I have added. Dosing both at the same time would be a toxic mix so I need to do a couple good large water changes after general cure. The clown showing infection has not reached a distressed state. Both are still eating and swimming fine. I think it has ich but I talked to some reefers and they don't think it's a protozoan infection but didn't have any answers. I suspected something was off 2 weeks ago when I saw white dots on the fins but that can sometimes be a broken fin ray.

The image quality is really poor. There are a lot more spots that either look like they are under the scales, attached, or bumps...hard to tell.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/gGXOoLQ.jpg

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Originally Posted by Trinityblood

I think it has ich but I talked to some reefers and they don't think it's a protozoan infection but didn't have any answers. I suspected something was off 2 weeks ago when I saw white dots on the fins but that can sometimes be a broken fin ray.

The image quality is really poor. There are a lot more spots that either look like they are under the scales, attached, or bumps...hard to tell.

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I hate that you're having to deal with an outbreak of anything, but I'm with you on suspecting ich. I know it's not the only thing that causes white dots, but it's definitely the most common. I've never tried my hand at salt water, but at least on the fresh water side API Ich Cure has has been my go to for a few years. I hope that it's just ich because in my experience it's been relatively easy to treat. Regardless, good luck and keep us posted!

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Originally Posted by Hugsplox

I hate that you're having to deal with an outbreak of anything, but I'm with you on suspecting ich. I know it's not the only thing that causes white dots, but it's definitely the most common. I've never tried my hand at salt water, but at least on the fresh water side API Ich Cure has has been my go to for a few years. I hope that it's just ich because in my experience it's been relatively easy to treat. Regardless, good luck and keep us posted!

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It's not ideal but I was expect setbacks to happen that I was going to have to push through to have a successful tank.

General Cure is one of API's ich treatments. It's for freshwater use, too. Fresh and saltwater care aren't much different when its not a planted/reef tank. All the same meds work between them.

I've been reading that, though it drops the ich off the fish, it can still be in the fish's gills and the ich is still present in the water. If the fish's immune system ever weakens they will be re-infected. The current practice to completely get rid of ich is to let the main tank go fallow for 3 months to disrupt the ich life cycle (no fish host, ich dies off). And do therapeutic copper dosing to eradicate all ich from the quarantine tank. API gets it off the fish then copper kills the ich in the water and 'shields' the fish from reinfection while it works to kill it all off. So long as I don't under dose or add the fish back too soon, I should never see ich again. I'll try this and see if it works.

Copper will kill inverts and leech into rock so it shouldn't be used in the main tank.

The clown improved overnight. Almost all of the white crud has fallen off it. I'm going to wait another day and start doing big water changes for 2-3 days to get rid of the General Cure. Then I'll start a copper treatment.

The clownfish have been in quarantine for 3 weeks and have gone through 2 weeks of general cure dosing. The one that was infected (bottom) has gained a lot of its color back after the treatment, though it looks like it has some scars from the ordeal. I haven't seen any re-infection in a week. They'll still be in there for a good while to try and let whatever it was die off in the main tank and observe to make sure it doesn't come back.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/3S70Fi2.jpg

During the water change on the main tank I took the live rock out to scrub off some hair algae and found a big ol sponge growing underneath it. Kind a neat and gross looking.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/WGdXHst.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/efs1hIp.jpg

Well. Everything seemed to be going well and I was going to move the fish back into the main tank in a couple weeks...but I had a quarantine tank disaster. The tank started a new cycle and both clowns died overnight. I did a 50% water change, and though it happened a week ago, the tank is still showing ammonia and nitrites. I've started dosing bottled bacteria to see if it does anything to stabilize the cycle. There was no overfeeding, the water was changed regularly, and the tank had been stable for over a month with media pre-seeded from the main tank. I talked to the people at the fish store and they don't understand either. They called it a freak accident. It was upsetting to lose both fish but I'm going to try to stabilize this tank and try again.

I am sorry Trinityblood. That's a real shame. It's tough keeping tanks and things happen. It does sound like a freak thing and I wouldn't be kicking yourself at all.

Really sorry for the loss of your fish. Keep your chin up.

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Originally Posted by dakski

I am sorry Trinityblood. That's a real shame. It's tough keeping tanks and things happen. It does sound like a freak thing and I wouldn't be kicking yourself at all.

Really sorry for the loss of your fish. Keep your chin up.

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Thanks. I'm really not sure what happened and I'm still trying to figure it out. Their deaths were two days after a routine water change and there were no meds in the tank. I can only guess the beneficial bacteria died off for some reason. It's strange that there's still ammonia + nitrites a week later. I want to wait for it to be ammonia free for a week before I try again. I've dropped some food in the tank and I'm letting the bacteria eat that. I suppose I can see this as a time to rethink my stocking. I will still be getting a clownfish for sure.

I had a heck of a time trying to figure this fish thing out but I think I finally have it stabilized. I tried eliminating every variable that could be causing problems and spent 2 months just experimenting with water changes. I tore down the 10 gallon quarantine and my friend said I should get a spider or something to put in it. I'm not ready for more animals yet heck no lol.

The main tank was fishless for long enough that I felt comfortable getting another pair of clowns. I found a guy who sells quarantined animals that he pre-medicates for common diseases. I was impressed with the clowns he sent. They have been eating and were healthy from the get go. At first they would only eat a mix of Mysis and brine shrimp, but after a week I had them being bold enough to come to the surface to eat pellets. The orange one now chews on the pipette if I don't dispense food fast enough where before they were both afraid of the water that squirted out of it.

I still haven't come up with names, but so far so good. They're so tiny!

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/QkHuMys.jpg

I'm happy to say my clowns are still doing awesome. My tank isn't the prettiest thing and I'm still a total noob, but I feel accomplished that I've been able to keep a stable tank for 6 months with two thriving fish. They've gotten a bit bigger and are cute, always swimming together. They burry themselves in the sand, like my dog digs holes in the dirt to lay in, next to the orange coral and sleep there snuggled up together at night.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/KJRgmli.jpg

I'm still battling algae and have had a crop up of bubble algae. I've been siphoning them out but they're persistent suckers. The feather dusters in the tank have really taken off and its cool to watch them come out of the tubes when I put food in the tank. I also have tons of tiny pineapple sponges. I haven't seen a single starfish in months since I had been culling them with prejudice.

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I added more fake coral. It looks goofy and I'm not sold on the placements, but I like having them. I'm also curing dry rock that I'll be adding in about a month to replace the dragon rock. I'm getting tired of buying distilled water and have been looking into an RODI system. I'm not sure what brand I'll grab. I want to add a black or blue background as well.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/9virc9C.jpg


I ordered a pack of various snails to take care of the algae and my last two fish. A yellow clown goby, and a chalk bass. I'll probably get them in a little over a month since they're coming from my quarantine guy. It'll be nice to have some more fish swimming around since the clowns are homebodies and hardly move from their favorite corner. I'm a bit nervous about adding more fish but hopefully they will get along and thrive. By the time they get shipped my new rocks should be done curing and I'll rearrange the rock work to prevent territory aggression from the clowns when adding the new fish.

I'm rather late to this thread & know zip about keeping fish except that they can be very challenging. So sorry about your previous freak losses- looks like you're making wonderful progress though, & what I can see is beautiful- no wonder that many get hooked on keeping fish (no pun intended). :gj:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I'm rather late to this thread & know zip about keeping fish except that they can be very challenging. So sorry about your previous freak losses- looks like you're making wonderful progress though, & what I can see is beautiful- no wonder that many get hooked on keeping fish (no pun intended). :gj:

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Thanks! It's been bumpy and I'm just glad I was able to finally have it running for a decent time with no problems. After getting the two clowns I have, I threw my hands up and did nothing but regular maintenance. I'm just now getting brave enough to add more animals and make some changes.

I'm going to have to change the thread title....I decided to take the plunge and convert the tank to a reef tank :O

The Clowns think I have food at all times now :P: https://imgur.com/LzUM2h1

I cured new rock and added it to the tank. New lighting and test kits...I'm debating if I should cancel the chalk bass on order for bio load and space reasons. I have no sump.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/Q0Nli51.jpg

I ordered two soft corals...Nervous and excited.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/f7PgAuR.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/kTx1ukO.jpg





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Nice softies! Rhodactis and Clavularia?

I'd be more concerned about aggression against the added fish, though maybe bioload is an issue; I don't know how folks run their reefs these days. My 90g is pretty oldschool, biggish skimmer, LR sump and a sulfur denitrator.

I do know that when I was really oldschool (small skimmer, wet/dry) Corallimorpharia and Xeniidae did far better for me than when I started to run things more lean, dissolved organics wise.

FWIW, I'm a big proponent of feeding Metronidazole-laced food for the first couple weeks after (and if possible, a few days before) a fish gets moved. It has some effect against external protozoan parasites.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

Nice softies! Rhodactis and Clavularia?

I'd be more concerned about aggression against the added fish, though maybe bioload is an issue; I don't know how folks run their reefs these days. My 90g is pretty oldschool, biggish skimmer, LR sump and a sulfur denitrator.

I do know that when I was really oldschool (small skimmer, wet/dry) Corallimorpharia and Xeniidae did far better for me than when I started to run things more lean, dissolved organics wise.

FWIW, I'm a big proponent of feeding Metronidazole-laced food for the first couple weeks after (and if possible, a few days before) a fish gets moved. It has some effect against external protozoan parasites.

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Right on both accounts for the corals! Nice eye.

Aggression is a concern as well. After having the 20 gallon for a while, it's starting to look a bit small to me for 4 fish. Your 90g sounds fancy to me lol! A lot of the new snazzy stuff is mindboggling to me so I'm slowly building up it as needed. If all goes well in another year or two I want to upgrade my tank size to maybe a 40 and keep this current tank as a frag tank. Maybe. Then I could get a Chalk Bass...
I read a lot about Corallimorpharia and Xeniidae being able to be grown in a toilet :rofl:Same with green star polyps. I think green star polyps are really pretty but dang it gets to plague proportions in some tanks.

The guy I get my fish from actually feeds Metronidazole-laced food. He quarantines fish and inverts and puts fish through treatments for common parasites and diseases before sale. I got my clowns from him about 7 months ago and they have been amazingly healthy and good eaters.

What's your favorite coral to keep?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trinityblood

...I read a lot about Corallimorpharia and Xeniidae being able to be grown in a toilet :rofl:Same with green star polyps....

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:O I know I'll never be brave enough to get into keeping fish, but they're so awesomely pretty to watch- too bad they're so tricky. Thanks for sharing w/ us.

I was going to say stay away from coral to keep your life stress free, im to late... If you want let me know if you're looking for any thing specific soft coral wise or lps, I might have it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trinityblood

Right on both accounts for the corals! Nice eye.

Aggression is a concern as well. After having the 20 gallon for a while, it's starting to look a bit small to me for 4 fish. Your 90g sounds fancy to me lol! A lot of the new snazzy stuff is mindboggling to me so I'm slowly building up it as needed. If all goes well in another year or two I want to upgrade my tank size to maybe a 40 and keep this current tank as a frag tank. Maybe. Then I could get a Chalk Bass...
I read a lot about Corallimorpharia and Xeniidae being able to be grown in a toilet :rofl:Same with green star polyps. I think green star polyps are really pretty but dang it gets to plague proportions in some tanks.

The guy I get my fish from actually feeds Metronidazole-laced food. He quarantines fish and inverts and puts fish through treatments for common parasites and diseases before sale. I got my clowns from him about 7 months ago and they have been amazingly healthy and good eaters.

What's your favorite coral to keep?

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I think 40g is a nice size, though once you've gotten into that 36 x 18 footprint (a great footprint size), it makes some sense to go with a slightly taller tank. My FW planted is a 36 x 18" 75 gallon, and that's a nice sized tank to work with.

Agree on the toilet comment. They really seem to thrive on dissolved organics -- not so much ammonia, of course, and algae growth can outcompete Clavularia and similar corals, but heavy feeding and substantial water changes was my reefkeeping MO for many years.

Favorite coral is a tough one. They all have their pros and cons. Euphyllia (hammer/anchor/frogspawn) are pretty easy to get along with, and plating Montiporas are the only SPS that I ever thought was worth the trouble. I like easy to keep species, in aquatics and herps -- at least, easy in relation to my skill set. I'd rather be successful, and I know I'll learn stuff whether I push the boundaries or not.

A not very high quality photo of my reef is below (first time posting photos here so I hope I did it right). The photo is about 6 months old, but that tank has been up since about 2010, and a couple of the corals (the Turbinaria in the middle, and the zoanthids on the lower right) have been in my care since 1992 or so, the Sarcophyton since about 2004, and the hammer coral since about 2008. The fish are all more than 5 years old, and we very recently lost the ornate wrasse apparently to simple ageing after 12 years.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...0154_thumb.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bassistjon112

I was going to say stay away from coral to keep your life stress free, im to late... If you want let me know if you're looking for any thing specific soft coral wise or lps, I might have it.

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Yeah I'm doomed now :salute:. Thanks for the offer! I'm going to see how well I can get these coral to grow.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

...but heavy feeding and substantial water changes was my reefkeeping MO for many years.

Favorite coral is a tough one. They all have their pros and cons. Euphyllia (hammer/anchor/frogspawn) are pretty easy to get along with, and plating Montiporas are the only SPS that I ever thought was worth the trouble. I like easy to keep species, in aquatics and herps -- at least, easy in relation to my skill set. I'd rather be successful, and I know I'll learn stuff whether I push the boundaries or not.

A not very high quality photo of my reef is below (first time posting photos here so I hope I did it right). The photo is about 6 months old, but that tank has been up since about 2010, and a couple of the corals (the Turbinaria in the middle, and the zoanthids on the lower right) have been in my care since 1992 or so, the Sarcophyton since about 2004, and the hammer coral since about 2008. The fish are all more than 5 years old, and we very recently lost the ornate wrasse apparently to simple ageing after 12 years.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...0154_thumb.jpg

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I'm convinced water changes can solve almost anything. Euphyllia are really pretty. I'm the same way. Keep it simple and aim for success.

What a beautiful reef! Congratulations on 10 years! I love seeing tanks that have been up long term. That's a great accomplishment.

I got my corals!

The Rhodactis frag had two of them and one of the heads looks a little strange missing the bumps. It has a bald spot of some sorts. Over two days the bald spot has started filling in and I swear it has gotten bigger already. Or it inflated out? I don't really know lol.

http://https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/9oFeJNT.jpg


The clove polyps fully opened up in one day and seem happy. I target fed them both a little bit of reef roids and they both reacted to it. I haven't glued them to the rocks yet and I have my lighting set pretty low for them.


https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/if9vjKg.jpg



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My Rhodactis can look pretty variable, both in general appearance and size. Yours looks nice. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

My Rhodactis can look pretty variable, both in general appearance and size. Yours looks nice. :)

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Thanks! I'm rather fond of mushrooms already. I want more types to cover the bottom of my rock work. Anything that's not super fast growing like discasoma.

I used to have a colony of those common green Discosoma, grew like weeds and I made a bunch of money selling them (back in the days when they were cool). My current lower nutrient practices won't support them, I found. I miss them, actually.

Rhodactis can be aggressive (mine are), so give them room. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

I used to have a colony of those common green Discosoma, grew like weeds and I made a bunch of money selling them (back in the days when they were cool). My current lower nutrient practices won't support them, I found. I miss them, actually.

Rhodactis can be aggressive (mine are), so give them room. :)

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I saw a youtuber who had a ten year old nano tank with just red Discosoma. It was actually pretty neat looking. They climbed all the way to the top of the tank. Maybe an all green one would be cool too if you want to keep them again :). I thought Rhodactis weren't aggressive? I haven't decided where I want to place current or future things yet. Will different species of mushroom sting each other if they touch? I've read florida richordias sting and I'd like to add those in. Maybe I'll just let one side of the tank be a mushroom side so they don't sting the clove polyps and whatever else I put in.

I haven't kept differing species together, so I don't know about mushroom on mushroom conflict, and I've not personally been successful keeping Ricordea in the distant past, when they were all wild collected and unattached to a rock (FL law prohibits collection of rock more than the size of a US quarter, if I recall correctly, so FL corals were/are chiseled off instead of collected on their rock).

Rhodactis did a bunch of damage to a small Acanthastrea I have; that's my only evidence for their aggression. I have to kill mine back occasionally with Aiptasia-X.

In the process of starting a 40g cube with a 20g sump and 180g with a 75g sump! Reef all the way for me though

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

I haven't kept differing species together, so I don't know about mushroom on mushroom conflict, and I've not personally been successful keeping Ricordea in the distant past, when they were all wild collected and unattached to a rock (FL law prohibits collection of rock more than the size of a US quarter, if I recall correctly, so FL corals were/are chiseled off instead of collected on their rock).

Rhodactis did a bunch of damage to a small Acanthastrea I have; that's my only evidence for their aggression. I have to kill mine back occasionally with Aiptasia-X.

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I did some looking around and people said like mushrooms are fine together. Differing ones in their experience will fight.

Oh darn, that mix of being wild and not attached to a rock is a good recipe for failure to thrive. The Florida variants are supposed to be hardier than the Yuma ones too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trinityblood

Oh darn, that mix of being wild and not attached to a rock is a good recipe for failure to thrive. The Florida variants are supposed to be hardier than the Yuma ones too.

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It could be that there are more CB ones available now; I don't know. There are with other FL corals, such as gorgonians, that were all WC not too long ago.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

It could be that there are more CB ones available now; I don't know. There are with other FL corals, such as gorgonians, that were all WC not too long ago.

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I've been finding it easy to get aquacultured corals. That's funny you mention gorgonians...I just got one lol. One from the Caribbean and of the photosynthetic variety. I also picked up a nephthya.



https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/i6RW6Kn.jpg
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I added a few more coral. I'm happy with what I have and I am in the process of letting it grow out. The candy cone cloves are really starting to take off and spider over the rock work! I'm unsure if I want to place the two cabbage coral where the green one is, or have them separated as they are. I may move the nepthea up to the bridge rock if I keep the pink cabbage where it is since they both grow large.

Dang diatoms and algae are still getting me but I think they're still part of new tank syndrome.


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