Strange Ball Python Poop

Hello everyone.

Recently my Ball Python Oliver has been having some strange poop. I’m at lost for what it could be. When it first started, I took him to the vet with some of his feces and they couldn’t find anything wrong physically. We were going to get a fecal but they revealed it would be very expensive so we decided to wait to see if it continued, in case it had been a bad mouse. It has continued. Has anyone seen anything like this before? I will probably schedule another vet visit. I’m at loss for how he could have gotten sick. I’ve had him for a little more than a year. I’m planning on weighing him hopefully tomorrow to see if he lost weight (he was 500 grams at the time of the vet visit).

Oliver is a 2 year old, calico Ball Python. His warm side is around 90-95 degrees F and his cool side is about 72-75 degrees F. He is fed a f/t adult mouse every week. His humidity is around 50%-60% and he has a humidifier. This is my first time using the forum so sorry if I’m attaching images wrong.

Here is his feces:
https://i.postimg.cc/rFcQqn36/18-AFB...-FBB2-AB71.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/HxRRSwkY/4-C158...97821-BAF2.jpg

Here is his enclosure:
https://i.postimg.cc/FKDQxkSz/C7948-...ED480-C7-F.jpg

Here is Oliver:
https://i.postimg.cc/t4bTSPsN/4-D7-E...181-AB8-CF.jpg

I don't have an opinion about his fecal-photos, but I'd keep his highest temperatures not over 88-90*, & his lower temperatures are on the cool side- you want more like 78-80*.

And for posting pics: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-Post-Pictures

The feces looks like something one of my bp experienced recently. Ended up having a fecal exam done and he had internal parasites. Gave him several doses of panacur from the vet. I'm not sure where it got them, as I had it since it was a hatchling. Vet said it could of had them since born, or from a rat possibly.

Also: a fecal exam (where the vet looks at fecal sample using microscope) should NOT be all that expensive, unless your definition of "expensive" differs considerably from mine?

That’s what I thought but it seemed they wanted to send it off to the lab to be examined. The check up was $70 and after adding the future fecal examine they said it would be $120 ($50 for the fecal) when, at the time, he had just regurgitated which happens once in a while apparently. Is that the normal price? I’ll pay it if he really needs it but it didn’t seem necessary when we took him while now it does, since his poop is worsening. I’ll have to ask them to do the microscope instead of whatever they wanted to do I guess.

I can see where sending it off to a lab would be expensive- as opposed to just doing a fecal float in the office. I wonder why they think that's necessary?

I have no idea where you're located, & some places obviously charge a lot more than others. In case you want another opinion: https://arav.site-ym.com/search/custom.asp?id=3661

It's NOT normal for a snake to just "regurgitate...once in a while...", that concerns me- but that could be poor husbandry* (cage temps. too low, or handling too soon after feeding, etc- things that you can & must fix yourself) OR it could be signs of illness- no way we can tell you for sure here.

***HAVE YOU fixed his cage temps.? (see my post #2 above) If not, that could BE the problem- the warm side is too hot, so he spends time where it's too chilly for him to digest properly. So BEFORE you run back to the vet, YOU need to fix the temperatures. That can make ALL the difference. And give it time to see if that helps.

No amount of money spent at the vet is going to solve the problem if your snake's environment (cage temps., humidity & privacy) aren't right. Even if he's actually sick or has parasites, he still needs the correct accommodations or he won't get healthy.

Yeah I fixed the temps actually, so that’s good. I meant that he regurgitated near the beginning of winter where my room would get cold at night so I got a room heater and assumed the temperatures were the issues. I had the temperatures higher because also before the vet visit he was making breathing noises but the vet didn’t find anything so I increased the temps to try and help him fight it off. I’ve always had trouble with the cool end but I positioned my room heater near his cage and that seemed to fix the problem. I’ll double check his temperatures now and feed him tomorrow and see how he does... This has been going on for a little while now do that’s why I wanted to take him to the vet since it hasn’t been getting better on it’s own. He’s had really runny feces.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RyanLovesSneks24

Yeah I fixed the temps actually, so that’s good. I meant that he regurgitated near the beginning of winter where my room would get cold at night so I got a room heater and assumed the temperatures were the issues. I had the temperatures higher because also before the vet visit he was making breathing noises but the vet didn’t find anything so I increased the temps to try and help him fight it off. I’ve always had trouble with the cool end but I positioned my room heater near his cage and that seemed to fix the problem. I’ll double check his temperatures now and feed him tomorrow and see how he does... This has been going on for a little while now do that’s why I wanted to take him to the vet since it hasn’t been getting better on it’s own. He’s had really runny feces.

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Okay, it helps to have a little more information here. If you trust your vet, then by all means get his stool checked out so he can be given the proper therapeutic medication to clear up what's ailing him. His issue might be bacterial or protozoan, & the right medication will hopefully put him right again easily enough. Let me remind you that diarrhea can dehydrate even humans to the point of causing shock, circulatory collapse & ultimately death. (Regurgitation also causes dehydration- that's part of the reason it's dangerous for snakes, the other is because they can aspirate into their lungs- they aren't really "designed" to barf so easily- snakes cannot cough either.) It's important to note that even if he's being dosed with the right medication, his enclosure needs to be kept clean (free of fecal material) so that he doesn't re-infect himself with what's ailing him.

Alright temps are fixed. The heating mat is large so it varies quite a bit but is generally around 90. I’ve placed my room heater near the cool end of his enclosure so hopefully that will help. I’m hoping to clean his cage two days from now since I’m feeding him tonight. I bumped up the humidity a bit since it was getting low and diarrhea can cause dehydration. His poop has been very watery and I’ve never seen him drink so that’s worrying... will the now higher humidity help? He’s due to go into shed soon but is a bit late. I usually feed him the mouse while it’s wet to give him a bit of moisture, is that affecting anything?

Snakes often drink water at night, when you aren't looking or are asleep. Don't worry about sheds being on a schedule- no such thing really- they shed when they've grown enough.

Quick update:

I thoroughly cleaned/disinfected his enclosure today. The temps are still doing good and his cool side is now 77+ (warmer during the day). Today he urinated which was a lot of liquid and some urates. Is that normal? I’ve heard it means he’s really well hydrated but I’m not sure.

I weighed him today and he lost about 12 grams since his vet visit. I’m thinking that’s because he missed a feeding last week but I fed him two days ago so hopefully he will gain the weight back. I think I’ll give him two weeks (two feedings) with the new temps and see if he improves.

I’ve also noticed he’s quite small for his age but then again I don’t really know his age. Theoretically, he’s 2 years old right now but could be younger. He’s about 2 - 2.5 feet and 500 grams. He’s always been on the thinner side but I’m hoping he’ll put on some weight.

Snakes that have "strange" feces and fail to grow & keep weight on at the expected rate are perfect candidates to have their feces professionally checked for parasites. When snakes "share" their food with parasites, they cannot grow at normal rates & often die prematurely because of the damage done by the parasites, which can invade various organs of the snake's body.

I wouldn't make assumptions about the weight "loss" as that could easily be related to meals, hydration, & defecation; please remember that we aren't seeing your snake here, your vet is the best one to do that. Glad you fixed the temps, but I'd still be concerned about having his stool checked if that was my snake.

FYI, what makes it difficult to advise you here: we don't all see our pets body weight the same way, any more than we judge our own body weights very well. Some of us eat more than others & carry more weight ourselves, & tend to feed our pets "generously" & feel that's normal, whereas others of us eat lighter, weigh less & expect the same lean physique of our pets. I've seen some post pics of what they considered to be their "skinny" snake that was actually overweight, & vice versa. Perception is a funny thing...so when you say "he's on the thinner side" & you're "hoping he'll put on some weight", we can't help you without seeing your snake in good photos at the very least, & the vet is in the best place to assess him, IF the vet has adequate experience with snakes. Giving us his weight is meaningless without knowing his actual size- your "noodle" could be angel hair pasta, or rigatoni...know what I mean? :D

Alright, heres an update:

He seems to be getting better! I weighed him again and he hadn’t lost any weight so I’m wondering if it might be a difference in scales? His poop is also normal (besides having a lot of liquid with urates) and he’s still active. He didn’t take his mouse last night but he does do that sometimes so I’m going to try again Saturday. Besides that he has been eating great. I think I’ll wait until his next poop and if it’s still strange, I’ll bag it and take it to the vet. You guys might be better at telling weight than I am as this is the first snake I’ve had so here’s some picture of him. He is 488 grams.

Here are some pictures (sorry, I tried uploading to the gallery on here but it wouldn’t load after much time waiting. It’s just my internet)

https://postimg.cc/gallery/jW8Z33W

When a BP refuses food, it's often better not to re-offer too quickly. I'd wait at least a week, & check to see if he's going into shed before you get his next meal ready- snakes seem to know well before we can see visible cues, & that might be why he refused. Hard to say with a BP though. ;)

I’ve had males and females give me gnarly poops like that during breeding season. They usually smell pretty bad too. Maybe it’s scenting? Stinks up the room pretty good.

Yes it smells horrible! Maybe that’s it then? He pooped today and it’s looking closer to normal though it’s kinda... grainy? Like solid and in a proper shape but looks gravely.

Small update: He’s still losing weight so I am scheduling him a vet appointment to get his feces checked out. The fecal examination is 60+ dollars (no idea why it’s so expensive) and the physical exam is 70+ dollars. Apparently it’s up to the doctor whether or not he would need an exam along with the fecal but they’ll probably want an exam since he’s lost weight... So we’ll see how it goes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RyanLovesSneks24

Small update: He’s still losing weight so I am scheduling him a vet appointment to get his feces checked out. The fecal examination is 60+ dollars (no idea why it’s so expensive) and the physical exam is 70+ dollars. Apparently it’s up to the doctor whether or not he would need an exam along with the fecal but they’ll probably want an exam since he’s lost weight... So we’ll see how it goes.

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I'm glad you're taking him in for a check- let us know what the vet finds, okay?

That looks more like urates than poop to me.
Bit worried about the red in it to the right.

Its a bit hard to tell from the picture. But.... I would not worry about the amount of fluid, but if there are any slime balls, that's a bit concerning.
See the top left flem ball type structures

Get it tested. It looks a little like it could be flagellates. Flagellate parasites are Usually treated with metronidazole. that's a nasty compound that can harm if you do not have the dose right, so get an exact weight of your snake. I am not a vet so get it tested and take the vets advice. But Globular slimy balls are not good news. And the red might be the damage they are creating.
Again, get the sample analysed. If it is parasitic flagellates, they can kill.

Dont panic, my second choice would be gastroenteritis, but again, I am not a vet. But even a vet cant tell with out samples for analysis. I strongly recommend getting sample anaysys.



https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...97821-BAF2.jpg

Google reactance:
Flagellates, especially Hexamita spp, have been reported to cause urinary tract disease in chelonians and intestinal disease in snakes. The “Giardia” seen in some cases of enteritis in snakes may actually be Hexamita or one of the relatively nonpathogenic flagellates that inhabit the intestinal tract of snakes

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ascended

That looks more like urates than poop to me.
Bit worried about the red in it to the right...

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Agree- not good to see blood in there.