Lil meanie

Hey guys. I posted a couple weeks ago about my ne BP striking. He does it quite frequently. He finally tagged me tonight. I have him in a 40 gal breeder tank with pothos vines, a climbing tree(which he gets on every night), 2 hides (one is small but he fits nicely) and it's on the warm side... the other is medium and is on the cool side and he has a medium sized water dish in there on the cool side. I have 2 uth, both hooked to thermostats as well as an overhead heat lamp(I use a daylight bulb during the day and a solid ceramic heat bulb with no light at night). I have a digital humidity Guage and a temp gun. His warm side stays between 85-93 and his cool side in the mid 70s. I use reptichip substrate with some new England sphagnum moss inside his hide area. The substrate is about an inch thick on the warm side and a little deeper on the cool side. He's been with me going on 5 weeks. The reptile store where I bought him said he was about 8 or 9 months old when I got him and he was very docile (one of the ones they always got out when people wanted to hold a snake). He's about 18 inches long and I'm not sure about his weight. He was on f/t rat pups and I have been feeding him every 7 days. I just this week switched him to extra small rats bc of his striking out, I thought he just may have still been hungry. So...... I wanted you guys to know everything about him and his habitat to maybe help eliminate some reasons. I feel like his habitat is spot on and I have been keeping up with the humidity every day making sure it's at least at 50%, sometimes a little more. This is the first snake I've ever had and I love him so much but he keeps striking and biting and my 7 year old picked him out and she wants to hold him so bad but she doesn't want to get bitten. I don't think he's about to go into shed. His color is pretty dark, his eyes don't seem hazy and his belly isn't changing colors. As soon as we uncover him, he gets very angry. He ate 3 days ago and we left him alone a whole day longer bc the rat was larger so I wanted to make sure he had plenty of time to digest. Sure enough, when I uncovered him, he struck at me but didn't get me, I moved him around with the hide so I could get him facing the other way and when I picked him up, he struck and tagged me on the hand I wasn't holding him with and immediately tried to tag me again. I put him close to me and cupped my hand over him for him to ball up and get out of the aggressive phase and he never relaxed or tried to explore. He finally took his head out, struck again, again, I put him in a ball. I held him for about 10 minutes and then just put him back and told my little girl he wasn't in the mood today. She is heart broken over and over and I don't know what to do. 😔 Is he still considered a baby and just still scared of everything or did I luck up and get an aggressive BP?

A 40 gallons tanks is better suited for an adult and I would not consider putting a BP in one before it reaches at least 500 grams.

Your snake's behaviour is it's way to tell you that something is not working out for him.

I honestly didn't even try reading that. It's all one, long, run-on sentence. It's just really hard to read.
I'm not trying to be the grammar police or anything, I'm honestly hoping to help us help you and your snake.

Space your thoughts out, you'll get a lot more people to read your threads, and in turn, more replies.

Your 40 gal could work, possibly, if it is cluttered enough. My juvie bp is in a 40 gal tank and is happy as a clam. He was also defensive when I got him, but I got him set up properly, and now he is a puppy dog.

First, your temps are a bit off. Are you measuring with a "point and shoot" thermometer? Your hot spot should be 88-89, no higher. Is it that temp with an inch of substrate over it? You may need to decrease it at that spot.
Your cool aide should be around 78-80 with and overall ambient of about 80.

I use reptichip with coco coir under it to hold humidity, as I have a plant growing in the tank. I also keep the moss in a humid hide (tupperware container) for him to climb in if he is in shed. No need to spray constantly, and perfect sheds every time.

I would dial those in and give him a week or so, maybe even as long as a few feedings before handling him.

Those are jist things that have worked for me. There are a lot of great people with more experience on this site.

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I was trying to fit all the info in.

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Originally Posted by Kerimac

I was trying to fit all the info in.

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I get that. But you can get all the info in while separating thoughts.

I'd like to help you out, but I can't read the info so can't help.

Your post is fine. Dont worry about that.

Just focus on getting your husbandry spot on right now.

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And (besides proper set-up, which can help them feel more secure & calm down faster), snakes are RARELY "mean"...they're AFRAID & in self-defense mode. :O

Remember that the ONLY thing that picks up a snake in the wild is a predator about to EAT them. We are gigantic & scary, & snakes will usually learn in time IF we are patient that they are safe with us, but they don't go to school to learn things...they are wild animals that rely on the instincts they were born or hatched with. So don't take it personal, just do everything you can to convey to a pet snake that you are not there to hurt them...be patient!

Once a new snake is settled in & eating regularly (preferably at least 3 times before you try to do any handling), remember that the scariest thing for a snake is our approach. So move slow, & if your snake is trying to strike out at you, you can do one of 2 things to pick them up: either use a snake hook to GENTLY lift them mid-body onto your hand, or put a small cloth OVER them (so they aren't seeing your huge scary self!) & gently pick them up (very rare for a snake to bite thru the cloth) & just sit peacefully with them for a while...about 30 minutes if possible, to give them time to relax, learn your scent & touch, & that no harm is coming to them. If they're really afraid, keep the cloth on for subsequent handling sessions until they calm down...then gradually let them peek out.

Keep your hands under them as much as possible, & for the foreseeable future, your face well away. Remember that sudden moves can spook them into a self-defense bite-& until a snake is calm with handling, they should not be in young hands, or in anyone's hands that is so nervous they may drop the snake if they are nipped. Falls can injure or even kill a snake...so do your handling over a soft surface like a bed, & sit down. If you relax, it helps them relax.

Even after your snake starts to be calm when handled, keep in mind that snakes don't "know" that your other hand (for example) is part of the same safe creature that's holding them...they may see the movement of another part of you as another moving predator entirely, & be afraid all over again. Understand that snakes rarely identify us by vision-they see motion & think: predator? food? but never "friend". Once they feel safe with us, they need our touch & our scent to identify & remember us, so use these to communicate who you are.

Snakes are just like us, in that they're afraid of the unknown. A snake in a glass tank or other enclosure cannot smell you or feel your touch...so again, if they
follow your motion as if you're their dinner, or they act afraid & strike out defensively, remember it's because they don't identify you just by vision, & they're not getting the cues they need because they're inside a cage of some type. If you blow air across your hand thru the screen towards your snake, they'll get your scent & you'll see them back away as if to say "oh, oops, not food!".

I have dyslexia, and I read it fine. (Took a few times but it’s fine the way you posted). I think you’re tank might be too big which is stressing your snake out. In some cases bp can feel too exposed when in a large enclosure. I’d say to block off part of the space inside the enclosure to make it smaller or add more clutter.

you also mentioned that you have 2 UTH, and a lamp. Are you using the 2 UTH side by side? Or on opposite sides? If you’re using them side by side just be sure that they aren’t using up more than 1/2 of that floor space/tank area. 1/3 is ideal.

Hatchlings and juveniles are bound to be defensive and eventually grow out of it(in most cases). One method you could try is putting your bp in a dark pillowcase and handle it inside the pillowcase for 20-30 minutes after it relaxes. From time to time stroke/pet your bp and be very gentle to start. As you do more sessions you can increase the time and the amount of petting you do. You’ll find that the more you do it the more calm and relaxed they’ll get when you are holding them, stoking/ petting them inside the pillowcase. My bp(who’s 9 months old) used to tense up when I stroked her the first time I did this method. After the 5th time she would remain relaxed every time I pet her. This method keeps you safe from getting bitten, and keeps your bp more calm, and reduces stress for the both of you. I’d say to really give this method a try. Only start handling outside of the pillowcase when you find that your bp consistently doesn’t tense up or contract their muscles when you pet them, or move around with them.

side note, please be careful and gentle when they are in the pillowcase, you always want to have a positive experience. 😁

also, covering it up is a great way to get it out of its defensive mode. Before, I had to cover mine multiple times before she would be in a flight mode and ball up. After covering your bp up, check where their head and neck is, sometimes they might still remain in an S shape even though their head is underneath their body. You might want to try to rotate him to cover their head up again. And spend about a minute or 2 covering him. You want to reach the point where their neck can’t be in an S shape, and their head is really tucked away, underneath a part of their body because even though they ball up, they are still able to strike at you if they want. This was a little difficult to describe but I hope it helps.

Also, don’t be afraid to use gloves and a hook. It really eases the mind and helps keep you and your bp safe. A bite causes a small wound for you, and can damage your bps health as well. So better safe than sorry.

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Originally Posted by Turningstar

Your post is fine. Dont worry about that.

Just focus on getting your husbandry spot on right now.

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More people reading will get more replies. That's all I'm saying.
I know a lot of people just skip over threads like this, so I'm trying to help.

Grammar and punctuation exist for a reason.

Congratulations on your new BP. I think he just needs a little more time to settle in. He's eating well so that's a good sign. How are you measuring your temps? Two UTHs and an overhead heat bulb seems like a lot. I'd suggest investing in a temp gun to make sure you're getting the most accurate temperature readings. As far as the defensive striking I'd advise using a snake hook before removing the snake from it's enclosure. It's just a gentle reminder that there's no food coming and let's the snake know it's handling or cage maintenance time. You can also use a gloved hand to take the snake out and then take off the glove when the snake calms down. And even if he does tag you it won't hurt and the snake will eventually see that biting does no good. Hopefully in time you'll both gain more trust in each other and the defensive biting will stop.

Thank you for your ideas! I am going to increase holding time as well. The cloth trick sounds fantastic because it's really hard to get him out of the aggressive attitude and able to get him out.

I understand you were just trying to help, however, you said yourself that you didn't even try to read it. Please don't make nasty comments such as punctuation exists for a reason. I am well aware of punctuation, as I majored in English. If you had read the post at all, you would have seen that there was plenty of "punctuation", and that it was used correctly. I will heed your advice for future posts and try not no put so much info in one posting. Before giving advice on grammar though, you may want to at least read what you decide to critique. Your response only made you look unintelligent and brash to myself and others here. I will adjust future posts and make them more easily understood. When I posted the first time, I had a couple of people tell me that I didn't give near enough information and there were tons of questions.

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Originally Posted by Kerimac

Thank you for your ideas! I am going to increase holding time as well. The cloth trick sounds fantastic because it's really hard to get him out of the aggressive attitude and able to get him out.

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Years ago I took in an unwanted yearling boa that bit everyone repeatedly, was re-homed multiple times before I took her in. I never got one bite from her in all the years she was mine...at first she wanted to bite, but got no chance ;) & by the time I let her peek out from the towel (after about a month or so) she no longer tried to bite.

Trust...you have to earn their trust. We want to be able to trust our pets not to bite, but it's a 2-way street...we have to build & earn their trust also. They fear us visually, so when you cover them, they focus on your scent & touch, none of which hurts them or turns out to be scary...in fact, a soft warm lap is pretty nice. :snake: Then all you have to do is gradually let them adjust to seeing you.

And when you hold a snake, remember to keep them close to your body because they feel sheltered that way. Snakes instinctively are afraid when out in the open, since that's when predators pick THEM off. So be their "cave"...they just want to feel safe.

You guys are great! I appreciate everyone's reply and willingness to help. To answer a couple of questions, I am using a temp gun and I have the uth side by side covering about 1/3 of the floor area (I have them stuck to the bottom with the tank on half inch risers for air flow). I do not have a humidity box but I can surely make one. I would have to move his water dish to the middle for it to fit. I will post a pic of his set up as it is right now if I can figure out how to attach one. Lol. Thank you again, everyone. 😁

Love the post about trust. I am huge on establishing trust and very in tune to energy. I know how to share my calmness most of the time but this is a very new experience. I am definitely going to give this a try. I also love the quote. 🙏💕

More people reading will get more replies. That's all I'm saying.

I know a lot of people just skip over threads like this, so I'm trying to help.

Grammar and punctuation exist for a reason.



I understand that, but I also noticed OP was very quiet after your post. I didn't want someone who came for advice to be afraid to ask for help. Not providing any help simply because she didn't separate her post into paragraphs is silly.

We are all stressed at this time. Let's just try to be nice and help each other.

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^^^ Sorry my copy and paste didn't work correctly!

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Any tips on sharing a pic? 😂

One more thing: once your snake learns to recognize you by your touch & scent, don't rush them when you pick them up...give them time to "remember they know you"-that way you aren't stressing them so much.

I had to do that with that boa...once in a while, her thoughts were "elsewhere" & she'd let out a huge hiss to say "I want to be left alone"; I slowly stroked her coils (not "in her face") until she got quiet, just a few minutes at most, then I could pick her up as if nothing ever happened. They are snakes first, who knows what their thoughts are? -but empathy is the cure.

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Originally Posted by Kerimac

I understand you were just trying to help, however, you said yourself that you didn't even try to read it. Please don't make nasty comments such as punctuation exists for a reason. I am well aware of punctuation, as I majored in English. If you had read the post at all, you would have seen that there was plenty of "punctuation", and that it was used correctly. I will heed your advice for future posts and try not no put so much info in one posting. Before giving advice on grammar though, you may want to at least read what you decide to critique. Your response only made you look unintelligent and brash to myself and others here. I will adjust future posts and make them more easily understood. When I posted the first time, I had a couple of people tell me that I didn't give near enough information and there were tons of questions.

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The "punctuation exists for a reason" was actually a reply to a different person. And I'd hardly call it nasty.

I'm sorry you, and apparently you speak for how others feel, found my comment unintelligent and brash.

I'll stick to helping other people who aren't so sensitive.

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Originally Posted by Kerimac

Any tips on sharing a pic? 😂

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This is a "sticky"
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-Post-Pictures

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Turningstar

More people reading will get more replies. That's all I'm saying.

I know a lot of people just skip over threads like this, so I'm trying to help.

Grammar and punctuation exist for a reason.



I understand that, but I also noticed OP was very quiet after your post. I didn't want someone who came for advice to be afraid to ask for help. Not providing any help simply because she didn't separate her post into paragraphs is silly.

We are all stressed at this time. Let's just try to be nice and help each other.

Sent from my LM-X220 using Tapatalk

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I literally WAS trying to help. Nothing I said was not nice.

Here is his enclosure. I have since moved his smaller hide to the hot side and his medium one to the cool side. Should I move the water dish to the middle and add a plastic humidity box? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...84b4b5d500.jpg

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For future reference, it's best if hides are the same size, & just big enough for the snake to fit fairly snug...that makes them feel safer. You'll see the term "back pressure" also...same idea, so nothing can sneak up on them. Since your hides differ, you can make them closer in size by wadding up some paper & adding to the larger one, then remove the paper when your snake grows larger. (Even when snakes out-grow their hides, some of them are quite comical, squishing into the hide so it's carried on their backs like a turtle's shell. :D )

Since your snake is trying his best to settle in, it's actually best if you minimize the number of times you move his furniture around. If you have a good reason, fine...other-wise, it will keep for now. A humid hide is a great option, most snakes appear to love & use them to facilitate shedding, & moving the water bowl isn't a big deal either.

An added (humid-) hide will help clutter up the cage too...the empty space in front is attractive to look at for us humans, but does nothing for the snake's sense of security.Focus on his comfort primarily if you move or add things...it won't add to his "self confidence" right now (snakes learn their way around in the wild, that's why it freaks them out when re-homed). Later on, when he's settled in, it's no problem...:snake:

Gotcha. Thank you. I think I will add a humidity box. I do wad up damp sphagnum moss to put in his hides. He goes in and shuts his door off with it. Lol. I was able to get him out and calmed down today for a long time! Getting him out has been the problem so I am going to definitely try covering him tomorrow with a cloth to get him out, as I don't have a snake hook.

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Originally Posted by Kerimac

Gotcha. Thank you. I think I will add a humidity box. I do wad up damp sphagnum moss to put in his hides. He goes in and shuts his door off with it. Lol. I was able to get him out and calmed down today for a long time! Getting him out has been the problem so I am going to definitely try covering him tomorrow with a cloth to get him out, as I don't have a snake hook.

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You can make a snake hook too, you know. But if you go that route, remember to keep your hands calm & fairly flat underneath him...as the old saying goes, "snakes don't bite the ground they crawl on" (ie. so BE the "ground" ;)). Whichever way you feel most comfortable...he'll learn & get much better too. :gj:

Thank you for all the replies! I have been getting him out every day. He is still defensive but once I am able to get him out, he settles down after about 5 or 10 mins and is ready to explore. I keep him close to me and keep him out for quite a while in order to build trust. I'm hoping his anxiety of being removed from his enclosure eases up a bit after a while. From what I've read about how often they shed, it seems like he should be shedding at any time but I haven't seen hazy eyes or pink belly yet. Thank you again for all the helpful tips!

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Originally Posted by Kerimac

Thank you for all the replies! I have been getting him out every day. He is still defensive but once I am able to get him out, he settles down after about 5 or 10 mins and is ready to explore. I keep him close to me and keep him out for quite a while in order to build trust. I'm hoping his anxiety of being removed from his enclosure eases up a bit after a while. From what I've read about how often they shed, it seems like he should be shedding at any time but I haven't seen hazy eyes or pink belly yet. Thank you again for all the helpful tips!

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Is he eating for you? It's very important to hold off on handling until AFTER he's eaten about 3 times for you at regular intervals...it's a good way to judge that he's really settled in & is ready to move forward. I'm just concerned that you're rushing this (handling)...it's something that nearly everyone struggles against, but for someone who is new to snake keeping or having any difficulty, it's really essential. There is nothing worse than having a snake that keeps refusing to eat, & handling can do that, even when your snake seems to be calming down. Fair warning...snakes are stoic. :snake:

Yes. He hasn't missed a meal. He has stayed right on track. Every 7 days, like clockwork. He has eaten 4 times now. He will have his 5th meal here on Tuesday. 💕👍

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Originally Posted by Kerimac

Yes. He hasn't missed a meal. He has stayed right on track. Every 7 days, like clockwork. He has eaten 4 times now. He will have his 5th meal here on Tuesday. ����

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Oh good! :gj: Sorry, I missed or forgot that...lots going on right now & didn't have time to go back thru this thread. Just wanted to make sure, as it's a mistake made often around here. ;) You & your snake get an A+.

He finally let me get him out without striking today!!! Quarentine is so much better with a snake! Is he considered a baby still? I've seen the terms baby, juvenile, sub adult and adult but haven't looked up the ages. I guess I could just Google it, huh? Lol. Thanks again darlin'!

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So, I made a humidity box for him. After he ate yesterday, He hug out in his hide for a while but has been inside humidity box since. It's so cute, wherever he goes, he pushes some of the substrate and sphagnum moss into the entrance (as to "close the door"). I have the humidity box on the cool side. Should I move it to the warm side? I put it on the cool side so that it didn't dry out as quickly. Should I move it to the warm side?

OH!!! Also, There was a dark grey rat in with the ones I purchased this time and he WOULD NOT eat it. I warmed up a white one and he got it in less that 45 seconds of me dangling it in for him. Anyone else notice their BP preferring one color over another?

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Originally Posted by Kerimac

So, I made a humidity box for him. After he ate yesterday, He hug out in his hide for a while but has been inside humidity box since. It's so cute, wherever he goes, he pushes some of the substrate and sphagnum moss into the entrance (as to "close the door"). I have the humidity box on the cool side. Should I move it to the warm side? I put it on the cool side so that it didn't dry out as quickly. Should I move it to the warm side?

OH!!! Also, There was a dark grey rat in with the ones I purchased this time and he WOULD NOT eat it. I warmed up a white one and he got it in less that 45 seconds of me dangling it in for him. Anyone else notice their BP preferring one color over another?

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If he's happy in the humid hide where it is, I wouldn't move it...or slide it midway between cool & warm sides. Cute that he "closes the door". :D

And yes, I've heard of snakes, usually BPs, that for whatever reason reject certain colors of rodents. Possible causes are that the different color one smells different (might be from a different source, different feed will affect their scent), OR your snake had a "bad experience" (a bite while eating live for a previous meal) & has learned to associate the color of the "offending" rodent as being dangerous. Let us know if he confides in you? ;)