6 Month Old Ball Python still acting hungry after two small mice?

So, I have had my ball python for a month. He has seemed fine with one small mouse, but tonight I gave him his mouse and put him back in the cage and he started scaling the walls of his enclosure. So I took him out, thawed another mouse and offered it to him and he took it after only a couple of seconds and ate it. I put him back and once again he is scaling the sides of his tank. Should I possibly up his mouse size? He usually just goes straight to his hide and digests for 48 hours before he is active again. He has never refused a meal within the month I have had, even his first week. And he has ate steadily, but tonight he seems way more active after this, and I am afraid he is going to regurgitate his meal.

Sounds like you're under-feeding him, but without his actual weight or the actual weight of the mice, it's hard to be positive. (by "small mouse" you could mean a
"hopper", which is actually the right size for most BPs when they're hatchlings)

This: and you need to get & use a scale if you don't have one.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...ing-Guidelines
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...%2F98qfzDH.png

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Sounds like you're under-feeding him, but without his actual weight or the actual weight of the mice, it's hard to be positive. (by "small mouse" you could mean a
"hopper", which is actually the right size for most BPs when they're hatchlings)

This: and you need to get & use a scale if you don't have one.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...ing-Guidelines
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...%2F98qfzDH.png

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Alright! I will try to weigh his mice tomorrow. Thank you for the advice. That was just what everybody recommended for his size, and so I went with it but I was worried tonight as he was avidly telling me that he was still hungry.

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Originally Posted by PaulBython

Alright! I will try to weigh his mice tomorrow. Thank you for the advice. That was just what everybody recommended for his size, and so I went with it but I was worried tonight as he was avidly telling me that he was still hungry.

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I honestly don't weight food for my snakes, but I've kept so many snakes for over 3 decades now, so I can tell the right size by "looks" but that's hard when you're new at this.

I pretty much go by feeding a rodent that is slightly less than the widest part of the snake's (un-fed) mid-section, with exceptions for a few of my snakes that have very narrow faces (rosy boa & TX longnose snakes, for example). But until you get the hang of it, that chart should help.

A lot of times, I’ve came to learn, snakes will stay in “hunting” mode after they eat. Because in nature they don’t never know when their next meal will come along so they stay in hunt mode for a while.

Like said above, without knowing the weight of the snake or the prey item it's tough to say whether he's likely still hungry or not.

I did just want to throw my two cents in here though:
It sounds like you're using a separate feeding tub? I would definitely ditch the feeding tube and feed in his enclosure.

Feeding tubs are old school and proven counter productive over time. I honestly don't even know where people are still getting the idea to use them...
Anyway feeding tubs will:
A) increase the chance of the snake refusing it's meal. Moving = stress, stress = refusals.
B) increase the odds of a regurge. Moving the snake AGAIN = more stress. More stress = regurge.
C) increases your chance of being bitten. As mentioned above, snakes can remain in "feed mode" after eating and increase your chances of being bitten.

There's literally ZERO benefit of using a feeding tub.

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

Like said above, without knowing the weight of the snake or the prey item it's tough to say whether he's likely still hungry or not.

I did just want to throw my two cents in here though:
It sounds like you're using a separate feeding tub? I would definitely ditch the feeding tube and feed in his enclosure.

Feeding tubs are old school and proven counter productive over time. I honestly don't even know where people are still getting the idea to use them...
Anyway feeding tubs will:
A) increase the chance of the snake refusing it's meal. Moving = stress, stress = refusals.
B) increase the odds of a regurge. Moving the snake AGAIN = more stress. More stress = regurge.
C) increases your chance of being bitten. As mentioned above, snakes can remain in "feed mode" after eating and increase your chances of being bitten.

There's literally ZERO benefit of using a feeding tub.

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Honestly, he loves coming out, he’s very social and being moved or handled isn’t stressful to him, and he trusts me enough to pick him up. He knows the difference between my hand and his food, as he instantly snaps out of his hunting mode when he sees my hand and goes back to wanting to be held, but obviously I can’t do that so I just move him back to his cage. Honestly, it seems to work out perfectly fine for us, and as he has aspen bedding, I don’t want it to get stuck to his mouse. And as for refusals, he hasn’t refused a meal for me yet, so that seems good as well.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I honestly don't weight food for my snakes, but I've kept so many snakes for over 3 decades now, so I can tell the right size by "looks" but that's hard when you're new at this.

I pretty much go by feeding a rodent that is slightly less than the widest part of the snake's (un-fed) mid-section, with exceptions for a few of my snakes that have very narrow faces (rosy boa & TX longnose snakes, for example). But until you get the hang of it, that chart should help.

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I just weighed the two mice he has left and one is 12 grams while the other is 16. His last weight measure was 157, which was a couple of days after he ate.

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Originally Posted by PaulBython

Honestly, he loves coming out, he’s very social and being moved or handled isn’t stressful to him, and he trusts me enough to pick him up. He knows the difference between my hand and his food, as he instantly snaps out of his hunting mode when he sees my hand and goes back to wanting to be held, but obviously I can’t do that so I just move him back to his cage. Honestly, it seems to work out perfectly fine for us, and as he has aspen bedding, I don’t want it to get stuck to his mouse. And as for refusals, he hasn’t refused a meal for me yet, so that seems good as well.

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Well, there's no way to tell a snake "loves coming out". BPs tolerate handling, they don't seek it out.

Your snake, your choice. But I'm telling you as someone with about 15 years of experience that you're better off feeding in his enclosure.
If you're worried about substrate ingestion, consider this: they've survived thousands and thousands of years without us cleaning off a place for them to eat. Nobody moves them to a clean environment to feed them in nature, yet they've basically been around since the dinosaurs. In the future you may want to consider a Coco coir substrate as well. It holds humidity well, spot cleans easy, absorbs odor and looks naturalistic. It's also not nearly as dusty or messy as aspen. But that's obviously up to you.

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

Well, there's no way to tell a snake "loves coming out". BPs tolerate handling, they don't seek it out.

Your snake, your choice. But I'm telling you as someone with about 15 years of experience that you're better off feeding in his enclosure.
If you're worried about substrate ingestion, consider this: they've survived thousands and thousands of years without us cleaning off a place for them to eat. Nobody moves them to a clean environment to feed them in nature, yet they've basically been around since the dinosaurs. In the future you may want to consider a Coco coir substrate as well. It holds humidity well, spot cleans easy, absorbs odor and looks naturalistic. It's also not nearly as dusty or messy as aspen. But that's obviously up to you.

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Yeah, that is what I was using but my pet shop ran out so I just got some Aspen. I like the coco fiber better.

And I would agree with Craig, as someone with about 35 years of keeping many snakes ;), that it's best to feed snakes in the enclosure they live in. To avoid them
ingesting substrate, just feed them from tongs (if they'll accept food that way, some don't) or feed over (or put their food ON) something that functions as a "plate"-
it doesn't have to BE a plate from your kitchen, it can be a large plastic snap-on top, it can be a cardboard box lid...whatever, just to keep the substrate from sticking
to the damp prey your snake is eating.

While you might get away with handling THIS hungry snake to feed him elsewhere, with most snakes that will just ensure that YOU get bit, either because a snake will
confuse you with the prey, or after, when they're still in "feed" mode. With large constrictors, this can even be dangerous, which is why those of us with serious snake
experience are trying to change bad habits whenever we come across them.

With more timid snakes, handling them before feeding (even just to put them in another container) tends to stress them, which destroys their immediate appetite, so you
can create your very own "problem-feeder". :( If they do eat, as Craig already mentioned, you increase the chance that when you handle them to put them back they
may regurgitate their prey, which is not only a harmful outcome, but rarely can even be fatal, since snakes can aspirate & physically cannot cough.

We want you & your pet to have the best & safest experience, that's all.

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Originally Posted by PaulBython

I just weighed the two mice he has left and one is 12 grams while the other is 16. His last weight measure was 157, which was a couple of days after he ate.

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So (by the chart), one should be enough per meal, about every 7 days (unless in shed, then I recommend skipping that meal until after the shed is completed).

His continued interest in food AFTER eating the first one was obviously just that he was still in "feed mode". Some snakes may continue to act hungry for hours or even more than a day, but don't give in to it. Snakes can over-eat & be over-fed just like people, & in neither case is it good for their health. ;)

Snakes are not "social" by nature, though some may seem that way, simply because they are less afraid of us & their surroundings. They each have their own personality, but don't always do things for the reasons we may ascribe to them. :snake:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

So (by the chart), one should be enough per meal, about every 7 days (unless in shed, then I recommend skipping that meal until after the shed is completed).

His continued interest in food AFTER eating the first one was obviously just that he was still in "feed mode". Some snakes may continue to act hungry for hours or even more than a day, but don't give in to it. Snakes can over-eat & be over-fed just like people, & in neither case is it good for their health. ;)

Snakes are not "social" by nature, though some may seem that way, simply because they are less afraid of us & their surroundings. They each have their own personality, but don't always do things for the reasons we may ascribe to them. :snake:

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Well, he had never done that before and I am still new to this. Will it be harmful that I fed him two?

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Originally Posted by PaulBython

Well, he had never done that before and I am still new to this. Will it be harmful that I fed him two?

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As long as he keeps them down there's nothing to worry about. I'd just give him an extra day to digest.

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

As long as he keeps them down there's nothing to worry about. I'd just give him an extra day to digest.

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Well, so far he has managed to keep them down. So that’s good I guess. I usually give him 48 hours, is that enough? Or an extra day on top of that?

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Originally Posted by PaulBython

Well, he had never done that before and I am still new to this. Will it be harmful that I fed him two?

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No...snakes in the wild don't follow these charts, & most get along fine as far as we can possibly know. It's just that with pet snakes we want what is best for them, from our experience. We don't recommend over-feeding, nor under-feeding, and this is just to give you a guideline to go by. It's actually more like what would happen in nature: snakes eat whatever they can find & catch: sometimes it's bigger than is best, other times it's too small & they just have to get along the best they can. (A meal that is REALLY too big can be harmful, by either causing internal damage or aspiration & death from a failed regurgitation, so obviously you never want to push the limits just to "see" what a snake can swallow.) Snakes in the wild also don't stick with a feeding schedule, & are more likely to be under-fed than over-fed because food is scarce & life in the wild is a lot harder.