BP acts weird when feeding/won't eat

I'm sorry this is a lot to read but I'm really concerned and hoping for an answer. I've asked on other sites and so far no one knows.

So my 9 month old super mojave paradox bp that I got when he was about 3 months old has always had problems with eating.

The first month when I got him I had the worst luck with heating pads. I couldn't get them to work for a long time and the whole time he wouldn't eat but once they were fixed he finally ate a pinkie. I bought him when he was ready to be moved up to fuzzies but had only eaten pinkies so I bought pinkies just in case he was unsure about eating a larger rat. The next feeding he ate a fuzzy but after that he just wouldn't eat them anymore so I offered pinkies and he ate those. He would also strike fuzzies and sometimes pinkies and try to eat them for a bit but give up and so far he's only taken 3 or 4 fuzzies. Well now he has started refusing fuzzies and pinkies. Every night he waits in strike position regardless of if it's feeding time or not. He gets super excited when I go to feed him, he stares at the rat, does the sort of tense up thing, and then just completely looses interest and tries to slither out of the tank. It's been over a month since he last ate and his spine is showing. He's only shed once since I've had him.

Here is everything I can think of on how I care for my snakes
I have another bp in the exact same kind of set up, the only difference is her tank is bigger and she has never refused a meal.
The ambient temp is 79, the warm spot is 90, he has a hide on the warm side and cool side and a climbing tree in the middle that also acts as a partial hide. There's fake leaves along the sides for clutter. I generally only hold once a week unless the snake is calm with being handled then I sometimes take them out another time but I haven't held him since he started refusing all food. I heat the rats up in bags put in warm water for around 15 minutes and if I feel they're too cold still I hold them in front of a heater.

I've thought of everything and just can't come up with why he isn't eating. Feeding him is so stressful. Any help is greatly appreciated.

I would stop handling until he’s feeding regularly to be honest .

I photo of the layout would be useful for us visual types ..

If you’ve got a few ‘suitably sized ‘ and ‘identical’ hides plus plenty of branches and fake foliage ... that’s s start ??

As regards feeding.. this is a Royal Python isn’t it ? As such I’d be feeding small mice .. never pinkies !!



Anyways my feeding way in a nutshell is to feed at night , dimly lit room , wait until he’s settled UNDER a hide .. have a hairdryer plugged in close to the viv / rub ... open the viv / rub then pick the mouse up in tongs and heat well with the hairdryer then INSTANTLY dangle the mouse in front of the hide entrance..

If there is any interest even a tongue flick then just kept reheating and offering ..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Ok.. There is a lot going on here. My first thoughts are:

1.) Why are you feeding a 9 month old snake rat pinkies or fuzzies? That snake should be on adult mice at minimum at this point.

2.) How often are your trying to feed this snake? From the post it sounds like you are trying every couple days or every night.

3.) If a snake is striking at something you are dangling in his cage he is more than likely being defensive and it has nothing to do with food. My guess would be because the prey is WAY too small. I have snakes younger that are already on small rats.

Here is my recommendation:

-Try to feed the animal once a week and appropriate sized prey... (Fuzzies and pinkies are too small.) From your post you were trying every night.. That's way to often and you will stress him even further into not eating..

-Get a weight on the animal so you can make sure that when the snake does feed it is gaining weight appropriately.

-If the snake continues not to eat when you are offering him frozen thawed and his weight is dropping I would definitely go to a LIVE mouse until you have some consistency once a week.

-Also, like zinc said.. Leave that snake alone until he starts eating consistently. The more stressed that snake gets as well as the more hungry he gets you will start getting bit. He has no clue what is coming into his cage if you are dangling prey in their all the time.

It doesn't sound like your cage set up has anything to do with this. Wrong prey size and feeding too often are more than likely the culprit. Fix those and you should be fine.

Agree with both posts above: You need to be offering the correct sized prey...pinkies just get stuck on their teeth!

Absolutely don't handle a snake that's not eating...it disrupts their instincts with fear instead of hunger. And don't offer food all the time, not more than once a
week, & it might even be better offered once every two weeks for better success while this snake calms down & concentrates on eating.

Just because you get away with handling one snake doesn't mean another won't be stressed into not eating. You need to put their health first...and when that's
all working, only then consider them a "pet" & be gradual about it.

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Originally Posted by RyanTheNoodleMan

.... I generally only hold once a week unless the snake is calm with being handled then I sometimes take them out another time but I haven't held him since he started refusing all food.

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Sometimes I wonder if people read what is posted very carefully. He said he hasn't handled since it has started refusing.
Also please quote to me where he said or even implied he fed every night. I didn't see that, he didn't say how often he fed at all.

I agree about the feeder size. And I agree about maybe feeding live for a while. Feeding at night and in front of the hide with dim light is good.

To OP, I would wait a week since your last offering. Maybe feed an adult live mouse. When doing f/t you could try what I did with great success last night. I laid the frozen feeder above the enclosure for an hour. My snake came out smelling and reaching upward toward the feeder. Which is usually always does. Then after that hour with the feeder still pretty frozen and having got my snakes attention. I just dropped it in an old ice cream bucket with cool water, (faucet cool ) after about another half hour with the belly now soft and defrosted I heated it up real good with the hair dryer till the fur was real dry and warm and the feeder was up to about a hundred. Using my temp gun I waited till it dropped to the upper 80's and put it in and it was bam.

I use to leave it out till total air thaw but I have compromised with Bogertophis one hour air which gets my snake out and hungry then cool water thaw away from the enclosure (in old ice cream bucket set inside bath tub) and then the hair dryer. Worked like a charm. I didn't use a bag I just put it in cool water but you can use a bag if you want. PS This new method of air/cool water cuts thawing time about an hour. This feeder chart is great to use.https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...51b6d6c5bd.jpg

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Originally Posted by ballpythonsrock2

Sometimes I wonder if people read what is posted very carefully. He said he hasn't handled since it has started refusing...

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Can't speak for others but this caught my attention & suggests there was too much handling prior to the snake going off-feed:

OP: "So my 9 month old super mojave paradox bp that I got when he was about 3 months old has always had problems with eating."

I don't mean to sound rude but a lot of people skipped over what I wrote and started assuming things that I didn't do. I need actual help and I don't want to explain what's already written many more times. Thank you for replying but I'm not answering all of those.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ballpythonsrock2

Sometimes I wonder if people read what is posted very carefully. He said he hasn't handled since it has started refusing.
Also please quote to me where he said or even implied he fed every night. I didn't see that, he didn't say how often he fed at all.

I agree about the feeder size. And I agree about maybe feeding live for a while. Feeding at night and in front of the hide with dim light is good.

To OP, I would wait a week since your last offering. Maybe feed an adult live mouse. When doing f/t you could try what I did with great success last night. I laid the frozen feeder above the enclosure for an hour. My snake came out smelling and reaching upward toward the feeder. Which is usually always does. Then after that hour with the feeder still pretty frozen and having got my snakes attention. I just dropped it in an old ice cream bucket with cool water, (faucet cool ) after about another half hour with the belly now soft and defrosted I heated it up real good with the hair dryer till the fur was real dry and warm and the feeder was up to about a hundred. Using my temp gun I waited till it dropped to the upper 80's and put it in and it was bam.

I use to leave it out till total air thaw but I have compromised with Bogertophis one hour air which gets my snake out and hungry then cool water thaw away from the enclosure (in old ice cream bucket set inside bath tub) and then the hair dryer. Worked like a charm. I didn't use a bag I just put it in cool water but you can use a bag if you want. PS This new method of air/cool water cuts thawing time about an hour. This feeder chart is great to use.

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Thank you for reading everything! I used to feed every week when he was actually eating since he didn't move up to appropriate sized rats but now that he's stopped completely I just offer whenever I go to feed my other snake which is every 10 days.

I've considered feeding live but I really hate having to do that. I'm going to try what you said with the f/t but if I'm not able to get him to eat after all of this I'm going to try live.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RyanTheNoodleMan

I don't mean to sound rude but a lot of people skipped over what I wrote and started assuming things that I didn't do. I need actual help and I don't want to explain what's already written many more times. Thank you for replying but I'm not answering all of those.

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We provided you with an answer of what we feel the main problem is. You are attempting to feed the snake too small of prey. We also informed you, (our opinion) to leave the snake alone until he eats.. I don't really care if you haven't touched him in a year I would continue to tell you to leave him alone until he eats. We don't need an answer from you.. You asked for our opinion and we gave it to you. If you want to try and continue feeding the snake something way too small you will probably get the same results you are getting now. With all due respect, don't ask people for their opinions and then say "I need actual help..."

In closing and in basic terms you aren't feeding the animal an appropriately sized meal. I would try and feed the animal what is appropriately sized for its age and weight..

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Can't speak for others but this caught my attention & suggests there was too much handling prior to the snake going off-feed:

OP: "So my 9 month old super mojave paradox bp that I got when he was about 3 months old has always had problems with eating."

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I wasn't handling constantly but I know even a little handling will stress them out. I always put him back if he seemed really scared (not moving, tongue not flickering..). If that is the case, what else can I do to help him calm down? I've completely stopped handing since he quit eating.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RyanTheNoodleMan

Thank you for reading everything! I used to feed every week when he was actually eating since he didn't move up to appropriate sized rats but now that he's stopped completely I just offer whenever I go to feed my other snake which is every 10 days.

I've considered feeding live but I really hate having to do that. I'm going to try what you said with the f/t but if I'm not able to get him to eat after all of this I'm going to try live.

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I see this all the time on here... "I don't want to feed the animal live prey..." May I ask why? In your situation, outside of the fact that the prey you are offering is undersized, I would imagine the animal was fed live prior to you owning it... That being said i'm not surprised you have had issues.. What I have the biggest problem with in that statement is that you continue to let a younger snake go hungry and noticeably lose weight because YOU don't want to feed it live.. That's not fair at all to the animal.. What's even slightly more insulting is that we attempted to help you and you have apparently not taken any of our advice because it isn't what you wanted to hear.. I feel bad for the animal in all honesty..

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Originally Posted by Moose84

We provided you with an answer of what we feel the main problem is. You are attempting to feed the snake too small of prey. We also informed you, (our opinion) to leave the snake alone until he eats.. I don't really care if you haven't touched him in a year I would continue to tell you to leave him alone until he eats. We don't need an answer from you.. You asked for our opinion and we gave it to you. If you want to try and continue feeding the snake something way too small you will probably get the same results you are getting now. With all due respect, don't ask people for their opinions and then say "I need actual help..."

In closing and in basic terms you aren't feeding the animal an appropriately sized meal. I would try and feed the animal what is appropriately sized for its age and weight..

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I didn't mean to sound rude, some people just skimmed over what I wrote. I'm not giving him something bigger because he is still a small snake. Fuzzy rats are the same size as the largest part of his body. I fed him pinkies when I first got him because he would always refuse fuzzies and I'd rather him eat something than nothing. Every time I go to feed him now I offer a fuzzy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moose84

I see this all the time on here... "I don't want to feed the animal live prey..." May I ask why? In your situation, outside of the fact that the prey you are offering is undersized, I would imagine the animal was fed live prior to you owning it... That being said i'm not surprised you have had issues.. What I have the biggest problem with in that statement is that you continue to let a younger snake go hungry and noticeably lose weight because YOU don't want to feed it live.. That's not fair at all to the animal.. What's even slightly more insulting is that we attempted to help you and you have apparently not taken any of our advice because it isn't what you wanted to hear.. I feel bad for the animal in all honesty..

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Because I don't want an animal to be killed for no reason when I feel like something else is causing him to stop eating. No, he wasn't fed live before I got him. If I have to feed live then I will but I want to know the reason why he isn't eating what I offer now before I start offering live.

"I have another bp in the exact same kind of set up, the only difference is her tank is bigger and she has never refused a meal."


What type of enclosure is this snake is now?

What type of enclosure was the snake in when you bought it?

Also, how much does the snake weigh?

On top of the prey size, if the enclosure is too big it will also cause a lot of feeding issues..

Do you feel like what you are feeding him now is an appropriate size? I feel like you might have you head in the sand with that one a little bit. There has been 3-4 people who have told you that what you are trying to feed him is too small and you are still saying "I need to figure out why he is doing this..."

Ok, you haven't handled him... Fine... Ok you try every 10 days... That's all fine and well... It doesn't correct the fact that what you are attempting to feed him isn't working and is too small... In my opinion I would have already went to a live mouse because that snake is young... It's not a 1200 gram, 3 year old female who can handle longer fasts..

At this point I have to double check...

OP- are you sure you're offering rats and not mice?

If you're sure they're rats, then the size is fine and that eliminates that as a potential issue.

If you're mixing up rats and mice and offering mice they're definitely too small.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RyanTheNoodleMan

I didn't mean to sound rude, some people just skimmed over what I wrote. I'm not giving him something bigger because he is still a small snake. Fuzzy rats are the same size as the largest part of his body. I fed him pinkies when I first got him because he would always refuse fuzzies and I'd rather him eat something than nothing. Every time I go to feed him now I offer a fuzzy.

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That snake is 9 months old and the widest part of his body is the size of a rat fuzzy? To make sure we are on the same page, you are telling me that an adult mouse, 20-30 grams would be too big for this snake?

Can you provide us with a weight on the snake and what size aquarium/enclosure he is in?

Hi,

I'd also like to know how much he weighs and if he has managed to grow much since you have had him? A picture of him might be handy to judge his size better so we can be more aware of what might be the best alternative prey to try.

I've found the key to a good feeding response with mine is for them to know food is going to be offered - this is what the dry defrosting near the cage does - the hairdrier just slams the message into overdrive as it spreads the warm prey scent around.

I know you may not want it to be a long term solution but I would definitely try mice or african soft furred rats of the same size.

Your temps don't sound too bad but it depends on how and where you are measuring them - is it with a probe inside the hides orsomewhere else? If the temp inside the hide ( where the snake hangs out ) is lower than the 79f you think it might be worth bumping those temps up until the hide is the right temp.

But good call on stopping the handling when the problem started.


del

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moose84

"I have another bp in the exact same kind of set up, the only difference is her tank is bigger and she has never refused a meal."


What type of enclosure is this snake is now?

What type of enclosure was the snake in when you bought it?

Also, how much does the snake weigh?

On top of the prey size, if the enclosure is too big it will also cause a lot of feeding issues..

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He's in a 20 gallon tank. The breeder didn't mention what he was kept in before.

He's normally between 110-120 but since the fast he's gone down to 98.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

At this point I have to double check...

OP- are you sure you're offering rats and not mice?

If you're sure they're rats, then the size is fine and that eliminates that as a potential issue.

If you're mixing up rats and mice and offering mice they're definitely too small.

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That snake should be 300-400 grams by 9 months... Most fuzzies are 15 grams on a good day... He's saying that a fuzzy rat is as big as the biggest portion of the snakes body... That is slightly concerning.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

At this point I have to double check...

OP- are you sure you're offering rats and not mice?

If you're sure they're rats, then the size is fine and that eliminates that as a potential issue.

If you're mixing up rats and mice and offering mice they're definitely too small.

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They're rats, I order them from perfect prey.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RyanTheNoodleMan

He's in a 20 gallon tank. The breeder didn't mention what he was kept in before.

He's normally between 110-120 but since the fast he's gone down to 98.

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98 grams at nine months old?? My man, I would start to worry.. For example I have a 9 month old that is in excess of 500 grams and eats a small rat every 7 days.. I have a female that is 7 months and eats a small rat every 7 days and weighs in excess of 500 grams.. That snake is WAY too small for that age. You need to try something different yesterday and I would suggest finding live prey quickly and get some weight on that snake before you kill it... You won't have to worry about watching a mouse die because that snake won't live much longer.. He's already dropped close to 20% of his body weight since starting to fast. Once again this isn't a 1200 gram female.

Also, a 20 gallon enclosure for that sized animal is too large. Please make some changes quickly. I would try a small tub immediately until that snakes starts eating and gaining some weight. I would be concerned. To be honest I would almost pay you to have it shipped to me because based off of what you have said with his spine and stuff showing it's not in a good place..

I have all the best intentions here I promise...

here's a pic of him from today when I went to weigh him:

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...226&height=300

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3 months old has always had problems with eating.

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Quote:

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a pinkie. I bought him when he was ready to be moved up to fuzzies but had only eaten pinkies so I bought pinkies just in case he was unsure about eating a larger rat. The next feeding he ate a fuzzy but after that he just wouldn't eat them anymore

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Quote:

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He's in a 20 gallon tank.

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Quote:

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110-120 but since the fast he's gone down to 98.

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Here is what I see you have underfed your animal and kept him in an enclosure that was and is still likely too big considering his size.

Now hopefully you understand why your BP has been a poor feeder since you have had him, and why you should have been concern a bit sooner, at that age they are eating machine if they are not in 90% of the cases is because people are doing it wrong and sadly poor feeding habits in young animal kind of become a vicious circle.

So now what? Back to square one https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-hatchling-101 to work you way back to an animal with a healthy eating behaviour. The only thing you can change is the food since he eats rat feed rats.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

I'd also like to know how much he weighs and if he has managed to grow much since you have had him? A picture of him might be handy to judge his size better so we can be more aware of what might be the best alternative prey to try.

I've found the key to a good feeding response with mine is for them to know food is going to be offered - this is what the dry defrosting near the cage does - the hairdrier just slams the message into overdrive as it spreads the warm prey scent around.

I know you may not want it to be a long term solution but I would definitely try mice or african soft furred rats of the same size.

Your temps don't sound too bad but it depends on how and where you are measuring them - is it with a probe inside the hides orsomewhere else? If the temp inside the hide ( where the snake hangs out ) is lower than the 79f you think it might be worth bumping those temps up until the hide is the right temp.

But good call on stopping the handling when the problem started.


del

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98 grams at 9 months... It has also dropped close to 20% of its body weight in the last month..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Here is what I see you have underfed your animal and kept him in an enclosure that was and is still likely too big considering his size.

Now hopefully you understand why your BP has been a poor feeder since you have had him, and why you should have been concern a bit sooner, at that age they are eating machine if they are not in 90% of the cases is because people are doing it wrong and sadly poor feeding habits in young animal kind of become a vicious circle.

So now what? Back to square one https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-hatchling-101 to work you way back to an animal with a healthy eating behaviour. The only thing you can change is the food since he eats rat feed rats.

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OP: PLEASE, PLEASE take her advice...

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Originally Posted by Moose84

98 grams at nine months old?? My man, I would start to worry.. For example I have a 9 month old that is in excess of 500 grams and eats a small rat every 7 days.. I have a female that is 7 months and eats a small rat every 7 days and weighs in excess of 500 grams.. That snake is WAY too small for that age. You need to try something different yesterday and I would suggest finding live prey quickly and get some weight on that snake before you kill it... You won't have to worry about watching a mouse die because that snake won't live much longer.. He's already dropped close to 20% of his body weight since starting to fast. Once again this isn't a 1200 gram female.

Also, a 20 gallon enclosure for that sized animal is too large. Please make some changes quickly. I would try a small tub immediately until that snakes starts eating and gaining some weight. I would be concerned. To be honest I would almost pay you to have it shipped to me because based off of what you have said with his spine and stuff showing it's not in a good place..

I have all the best intentions here I promise...

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Why would a 20 gallon be too big when bps come from the wild? Don't you mean I should add more clutter? I'm going to take the advice but I just want to understand some things.

Because they don't feel secure.. Understand that the snake didn't "come from the wild..." They are captive bred and I would be willing to bet money based on the morph that you purchased it's from a breeder. Breeders use racks and that snake was used to being in something MUCH smaller. When you took possession of the animal you probably tripled if not quadrupled what it was used to and put it in a glass fish tank when it was used to being in something dark and probably much better controlled as far as temperature goes. You said you had a ton of issues with the heating mats as well.. All of this is a recipe for a poor feeding snake... Like Deborah mentioned, they are typically trash cans at that age and will over eat if allowed... Once they are older they become more picky but at 98 grams and dropping you don't have the luxury of a 3 month fast..

Sorry I meant that ball pythons in general are wild animals, not that he came from the wild. Where can I store a tub since I don't have a racking system? Is there some way I can change up the tank to make him feel more secure?

This is what Deborah posted... Step by step instructions...

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-hatchling-101

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Originally Posted by RyanTheNoodleMan

Why would a 20 gallon be too big when bps come from the wild? Don't you mean I should add more clutter? I'm going to take the advice but I just want to understand some things.

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And in the wild they do not live in big wide open space either they live in dark tight termite mount and only come out at night (and they don't room around for hundred of miles either at once), more importantly this is NOT the wild this is captivity so it's really comparing apple and oranges here when it comes to behaviour and stress factors.

By being a poor feeder your snake was telling you that some things were not working for him (prey size, enclosure
are what jump outs immediately could be more issues too) and you fail to understand that because you are a new owner which is ok many have that issue.

Now can it be fix? Yes if YOU are willing to listen.

Now it's not about the next person saying I have kept my BP in a 40 gallons tank since it was an hatchling and it's doing great it's about YOUR snake not doing good in a larger setup that are usually recommended for snake 500 grams and up.

Considering the current size of your snake you need to make those changes and fast 9 months old and 98 grams is not great especially for an animal that at a point was 120 grams.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Now can it be fix? Yes if YOU are willing to listen.

Now it's not about the next person saying I have kept my BP in a 40 gallons tank since it was an hatchling and it's doing great it's about YOUR snake not doing good in a larger setup that are usually recommended for snake 500 grams and up.

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What size gallon tank do you feel he should try? Or are you saying he has to use a small quart plastic tub like Moose84 is saying? Are we now saying on here that snakes have to started out in plastic tubs or are you all allowing people to use glass enclosures? (Or is this special circumstance because of the snakes condition?) If you feel he can have glass, what size a 10 gallon? If not what size plastic tub does he need?

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Originally Posted by ballpythonsrock2

What size gallon tank do you feel he should try? Or are you saying he has to use a small quart plastic tub like Moose84 is saying. Are we now saying on here that snakes have to started out in plastic tubs or are you all allowing people to use glass enclosures? (Or is this special circumstance because of the snakes condition?) If you feel he can have glass, what size a 10 gal. if not what size plastic tub does he need?

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Click the link that Deborah and I both posted. This is a temporary thing so the snake can get back on feed and gain weight. It is way too thin at 98 grams and falling.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Has prey temperature been addressed yet? You said you go from frozen to thaw in a cup of hot water for 15min, heat lamp if needed.

I think you are underwarming your prey, 15 min is never enough for me. It needs to be about 100 degrees throughout the body. You may be partially thawing and then only heating the surface with a lamp.

I do a minimum of a 1 hour soak, a second hour with a water change, then a quick reheating in fresh hot water for 5 minutes. Even then I still get a frozen brain sometimes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moose84

Click the link that Deborah and I both posted. This is a temporary thing so the snake can get back on feed and gain weight. It is way too thin at 98 grams and falling.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I did, so never mind my questions. I decided to follow that link before you posted this but thanks.

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Originally Posted by ballpythonsrock2

What size gallon tank do you feel he should try? Or are you saying he has to use a small quart plastic tub like Moose84 is saying? Are we now saying on here that snakes have to started out in plastic tubs or are you all allowing people to use glass enclosures? (Or is this special circumstance because of the snakes condition?) If you feel he can have glass, what size a 10 gallon? If not what size plastic tub does he need?

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No one is saying anything about starting all of them out in tubs.. Lets not run with that and start any rumors... No one is "allowing" anyone to do anything. This isn't the "ball python police..." If you read the thread, you will see this snake is very underweight (98 grams at 9 months old) and has lost 20% of his body weight since starting a fast.. Once again, if you read the thread carefully this is purely a measure to get the animal back on feeding again and get it to a safe weight.. This is in the animals best interest.. No one is saying tanks are cursed and shouldn't be used.. Lets make that clear..

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Originally Posted by ballpythonsrock2

What size gallon tank do you feel he should try? Or are you saying he has to use a small quart plastic tub like Moose84 is saying? Are we now saying on here that snakes have to started out in plastic tubs or are you all allowing people to use glass enclosures? (Or is this special circumstance because of the snakes condition?) If you feel he can have glass, what size a 10 gallon? If not what size plastic tub does he need?

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None I already posted a link we are not talking about setting up a new acquired animal that is thriving here, we are talking about get back on track an animal that is not doing well. There is a difference between troubleshooting an issue and setting up an animal for the first time, usually speaking when talking to my customer (if this is their first snake I recommend a 10 gallons tank) you can read my detailed recommendation for new owner here https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...ips-and-Tricks