Feeding help needed BADLY

I about 6 months ago got a normal ball python from Petsmart (I know a really bad place to buy pets but I didn't know that at that time). It had been my dream ever since I was very small to have a snake of my own and for my birthday, 6 months ago my mother finally agreed. I used all of my birthday money plus savings to buy everything I needed plus the snake. At first he was really defensive but I could still hold him ( I gave him about a month to settle in ) and he was eating fine but then slowly he started skipping weeks. When he skipped weeks I could no longer touch him so he got more defensive and now today it has been about a month and a half since he last ate I have tried everything he will not let me touch him at all to move him into a box to feed and he just sits in his hide all day. You can see the tip of his spine now and I am so worried I have panic attacks and end up crying I am stressing so much I have no idea what to do. I did about three months of research before I got him but everything all the sites told me has not worked since. At first everyone told me a ball python was the best beginner snake but now when I ask they say that I should not have gotten a ball python so I am so confused. If I can't get him to eat within the next 3 weeks I am going to get rid of him to someone who can get him to eat I can't even sleep it feels like I'm starving child I am so stressed and have no idea what to do. His enclosure has everything two hides vines space heating pad everything I can offer A snake and more. I feed him frozen medium mice (When he eats) a friend of mine has suggested trying live mice but he has eaten frozen thawed all his life so I am confused as to why he suddenly wants live if this is the case. I heat the mice up with A blow dryer and everything you are supposed to do I don't know what to do I feel so bad and he is probably starving too. Any help is appreciated even the smallest tips I just need something honestly any idea's I will attempt ( As long as the snake is not at risk ) to get him to eat. At first we thought he was a female but now I am pretty sure it's male though not positive. I have posted here before to ask for help and the very nice people here gave me tips that made him eat but now nothing works.

English is not native to me I am sorry for grammar and I am just overall terrible at punctuation sorry about that.

I'm sorry to hear that you are having difficulty with your snake.

I realize that you saved up your money and bought the snake---the equipment needed to properly care for a ball python can be a lot more expensive than the snake itself. Describe your setup and heat sources so we can eliminate that as a potential cause.

Ball Pythons won't eat well unless they are comfortable. Handling a ball python (at all) that is a problem eater is also a bad idea as it also stresses them out. Once the snake is firmly set on a steady routine is the best time to handle them.

Also, since the snake is from one of the Pet store chains...there is a small chance it has internal parasites or a defect that you have not spotted. This would require a trip to the Vet....like I said though-I think it is more likely the setup than a medical issue...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ciaran_songs

I about 6 months ago got a normal ball python from Petsmart (I know a really bad place to buy pets but I didn't know that at that time). It had been my dream ever since I was very small to have a snake of my own and for my birthday, 6 months ago my mother finally agreed. I used all of my birthday money plus savings to buy everything I needed plus the snake. At first he was really defensive but I could still hold him ( I gave him about a month to settle in ) and he was eating fine but then slowly he started skipping weeks. When he skipped weeks I could no longer touch him so he got more defensive and now today it has been about a month and a half since he last ate I have tried everything he will not let me touch him at all to move him into a box to feed and he just sits in his hide all day. You can see the tip of his spine now and I am so worried I have panic attacks and end up crying I am stressing so much I have no idea what to do. I did about three months of research before I got him but everything all the sites told me has not worked since. At first everyone told me a ball python was the best beginner snake but now when I ask they say that I should not have gotten a ball python so I am so confused. If I can't get him to eat within the next 3 weeks I am going to get rid of him to someone who can get him to eat I can't even sleep it feels like I'm starving child I am so stressed and have no idea what to do. His enclosure has everything two hides vines space heating pad everything I can offer A snake and more. I feed him frozen medium mice (When he eats) a friend of mine has suggested trying live mice but he has eaten frozen thawed all his life so I am confused as to why he suddenly wants live if this is the case. I heat the mice up with A blow dryer and everything you are supposed to do I don't know what to do I feel so bad and he is probably starving too. Any help is appreciated even the smallest tips I just need something honestly any idea's I will attempt ( As long as the snake is not at risk ) to get him to eat. At first we thought he was a female but now I am pretty sure it's male though not positive. I have posted here before to ask for help and the very nice people here gave me tips that made him eat but now nothing works.

English is not native to me I am sorry for grammar and I am just overall terrible at punctuation sorry about that.

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Please provide temps on hot spot, cool side, size of enclosure, what type, is there a thermostat, and preferably a picture of your set up and snake without touching him or disturbing him. Even if you previously done so, do it again as it appears something did not go right husbandry wise. Also, any new changes around the environment, like more foot traffic from people passing by, etc.

I was one of those people who was also sold by the idea that ball pythons are beginners species. While some agree with that, I don't after getting mine, having the same feeding trouble as well as finding out how many 'please help snake won't eat' threads there are in numerous forums. It is okay though; ball pythons are tough little critters so mistakes can be forgiven as long as they are corrected. Don't beat yourself over it. Challenges in life, as you will find as you grow older yourself, are there to help you grow.

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First off, take a deep breath... We'll help you and your snake through this.

It would definitely help to know more about your setup...
- what type and size enclosure?
- how are you heating the enclosure? ARE YOUR HEAT SOURCES REGULATED BY A THERMOSTAT??
- what are your temps? He are you measuring temps?

The more you tell us, the better we can help you.

I'm only asking about the setup to confirm all is good there, but there's one MAJOR thing you're doing wrong...

FEED YOUR SNAKE INSIDE HIS/HER ENCLOSURE!!

Feeding tubs are old school and proven counter productive over time. There is literally ZERO benefit to using a separate feeding tub. In fact, the feeding tub is almost DEFINITELY your feeding problem.

Feeding tubs:
A) increase the chance of the snake refusing food. Moving the snake = stress. Stress = refusal.
B) increase the chance of the snake regurgitating it's meal. Again, moving = stress. Stress = regurge.
C) increase your chances of getting bit. Snakes remain in feed mode after eating and can be very defensive. Defensive + feed mode = you getting tagged.

Honestly, I'm willing to bet this is the problem, but knowing more about your setup is just as important.

Think of it this way...
BPs are ambush predators who spend most of their lives hidden. They feel most comfortable eating when they are protected and don't feel vulnerable. Sooooo, moving the snake OUT of it's comfort zone makes absolutely no sense at all.

Feed at night, while the snake is in its hide. Don't move the hide, leave the snake alone. Letting the mouse defrost in the room where the snake is should allow him to smell the prey and "get ready to strike". You may even see his nose poking out of his hide.
Then heat the prey item and dangle it in front of the hide, but not too close to scare the snake.

Good luck, keep asking all the questions you need to. We're happy to help you and your snake.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ciaran_songs

I about 6 months ago got a normal ball python from Petsmart (I know a really bad place to buy pets but I didn't know that at that time). It had been my dream ever since I was very small to have a snake of my own and for my birthday, 6 months ago my mother finally agreed. I used all of my birthday money plus savings to buy everything I needed plus the snake. At first he was really defensive but I could still hold him ( I gave him about a month to settle in ) and he was eating fine but then slowly he started skipping weeks. When he skipped weeks I could no longer touch him so he got more defensive and now today it has been about a month and a half since he last ate I have tried everything he will not let me touch him at all to move him into a box to feed and he just sits in his hide all day. You can see the tip of his spine now and I am so worried I have panic attacks and end up crying I am stressing so much I have no idea what to do. I did about three months of research before I got him but everything all the sites told me has not worked since. At first everyone told me a ball python was the best beginner snake but now when I ask they say that I should not have gotten a ball python so I am so confused. If I can't get him to eat within the next 3 weeks I am going to get rid of him to someone who can get him to eat I can't even sleep it feels like I'm starving child I am so stressed and have no idea what to do. His enclosure has everything two hides vines space heating pad everything I can offer A snake and more. I feed him frozen medium mice (When he eats) a friend of mine has suggested trying live mice but he has eaten frozen thawed all his life so I am confused as to why he suddenly wants live if this is the case. I heat the mice up with A blow dryer and everything you are supposed to do I don't know what to do I feel so bad and he is probably starving too. Any help is appreciated even the smallest tips I just need something honestly any idea's I will attempt ( As long as the snake is not at risk ) to get him to eat. At first we thought he was a female but now I am pretty sure it's male though not positive. I have posted here before to ask for help and the very nice people here gave me tips that made him eat but now nothing works.

English is not native to me I am sorry for grammar and I am just overall terrible at punctuation sorry about that.

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I'm so sorry to hear that you're not enjoying your snake. You've come to the right place, there are members in this group with years of experience who will give you excellent information and support. I just wanted to comment on the live versus f/t aspect. 18 months ago I purchased a young snake that had been fed f/t. When I brought her home, she had 3 meals for me and all was well. Then she quit eating. Temps, humidity, was spot on, she had two hides and was in a small bin. Every week I offered her an appropriately sized f/t rat, which is what she'd been eating for the breeder, and every week she refused. I was feeling exactly the way you are and getting desperate. Finally, after about 7 weeks, ready to try anything, I offered her live prey. She took it immediately and has never looked back. I don't know why she'd suddenly refuse f/t, and would MUCH prefer she didn't eat live, but I DO know, she's never missed a meal since, not even when she's in shed. It might be worth it, if nothing else, than to reduce your stress levels, to try her on live. You could ask the pet store if you can return it if she doesn't eat it. Just sharing my experience as I know exactly how you feel. Best of luck.

Listen to Craig. he is a great guy who will help you figure this out.

I wouldn't switch to live just yet. I think you've got a handful of options to exhaust before trying live.

If feeding in the enclosure and zeroing in on husbandry don't do the trick live might be the next step. But until you've exhausted all other options I wouldn't offer live prey yet.

I can sure understand your frustration...I wish that everyone (stores, books, etc) would stop saying that "ball pythons are great beginner snakes", as they are rather
complicated. They have this great reputation because they stay a nice size (not too big), they are pretty, & mostly, because they are docile. But sadly, there is a LOT
more to it than that...they can be very picky eaters, & as adults (especially) they often decide to fast for a while (making their owners nervous & having to waste food).
They also need higher temperatures & humidity than many other snakes, & may stress out when handled, or if their housing isn't just right (so they feel "secure").

When you care so much about a pet, it's impossible not to stress out when it doesn't go as planned, but giving us more info about his cage/temps. would help, & as Craig
suggested, only offer him food when he's in his "home"...preferably at night...preferably only when he's in his hide & peeking out of it, not when he's cruising the cage.

BPs are ambush-predators, so they like to pounce on prey that seems to be cluelessly passing by them, not too active or coming toward them boldly, and never feed a
snake in a separate container, since the handling you do can easily disrupt their feeding instincts. This is because the only thing that picks up a snake in the wild is normally
a predator that's going to eat them...so when you pick up your BP to move him into a tub, he's now fearful instead of focused on hunger. I have a hunch that part of the
reason he's not eating is that you've been handling him more than he feels comfortable with. All snakes are basically wild animals (even though captive-bred), meaning
they rely on their instincts. Many snakes tolerate handling better than BPs do without going off food, but because BPs are so docile, it's easy to think they are enjoying
your company more than they really are. Snakes (& especially ball pythons) require a slightly different definition of "pet": because they are instinctive creatures, it is US
that has to adapt to their needs first, not the other way around (like with domestic animals). If you can do that, you'll succeed, at least better than you have been.

I have not been able to reply for that I am sorry, I have gotten him to eat now the only problem is getting him to eat next time. His tempts on his basking side is at around 90 Fahrenheit at all times sometimes it may drop below that, though that's only when it's cold in my house but I always make sure it's not to cold. His ambient temperature is around 80. These are all temp's that I have been told he should be on if they are wrong please let me know thanks. he has a heating pad under his log and in his other hide there is nothing so that he can choose between heating bad and no heating pad. I have tried feeding him when in his hide he does not take it. The only reason I got him to eat was because I took him to my local feed store in a shoe box crying and there was a lady who helped me for 2 hours try to feed him in the end she ended up force feeding him which I felt bad about. I will have to take him back next time to try again. He has water constantly in a big enough bowl that he can lay in which I take out and scrub every 2-3 days he has distilled water for drinking water. He tries to puke up his mouse constantly it has now been 24 hours since he ate and is still trying to puke it up. Every time I walk by his enclosure he strikes at the glass I am pretty sure he has hurt his jaw now. All he does is try to strike at me even when I am far away. Lately I haven't been able to even open the enclosure anymore without him trying to go for my face. I have tried everything he won't calm down I broke down in tears a couple days ago my mother said that I have 5 months to get him to be tame otherwise she wants him out. There's nothing I can do since I live with her I have tried but she won't let it go she is worried he will get loose and hurt our other animals or me. even though I have clips on his cage lid, as for the size of the enclosure it's 65 gallons and is 4 foot tall with branches but is not to cluttered. I have tried feeding him in a shoe box as well as his enclosure to no avail. All he does is sit in striking position all day I am worried for his health if you need anything further let me know I want him to be happy I am hopeful that I can do it.

I forgot to mention that a couple months back I had a rabbit I was taking care of in the room but I have removed all traces and he was doing it a bit before this to just wondering that may have helped the not eating situation.

I feel you may be right about them not being beginner snakes I as well wish they would stop so that no one else has to go through so much stress :) .

Ok, try to relax. If you listen to us we'll get you and your snake on track.

Unfortunately, taking him out of his enclosure and force feeding may have been a step backwards.

I think what you really need to do is switch to a much smaller enclosure. Your snake likely feels scared and vulnerable in such a large enclosure.

BPs rely very heavily on feeling safe and secure. When they're small they feel extremely vulnerable since almost anything can be a predator to them. So trying to provide them with an enclosure they feel safe in is one of the most important parts of keeping snakes. If the snake doesn't feel safe and secure it will choose not to eat so that it can escape more easily if it needs to. Especially juvenile BPs. They can be extremely finicky.


There are two major reasons a snake will not eat.
1) husbandry is off.
2) they don't feel safe and secure.

I think that switching to a smaller enclosure will help you to improve husbandry as well as provide the security the snake craves.

Switching to an enclosure that provides security will also make the snake less defensive. In that large enclosure your snake likely feels like everything, including you, is a predator. So providing security should help to relax the snake.

I don't usually think it's necessary with BPs, but in your case it may be worth hook training. It may help both of you to feel more comfortable with each other and to trust one another.

I have gotten him checked out no internal diseases thankfully, I don't remember if I mentioned that or not.

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Originally Posted by Ciaran_songs

I feel you may be right about them not being beginner snakes I as well wish they would stop so that no one else has to go through so much stress :) .

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I have to completely disagree. If enough research is done BPs are extremely easy to keep.

It's not too late to turn things around. But you're going to need to learn from the right sources.

I will have to save up paycheck's for a smaller tank then should not take long though, what size should I get?

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Originally Posted by Ciaran_songs

I will have to save up paycheck's for a smaller tank then should not take long though, what size should I get?

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I forget if it was mentioned earlier...

How old is the snake and how much does it weigh?

Not sure on weight but he is about 8-10 months old I know that's a big gap but they never told me when I got him but its been about 7 months since I got him I think maybe a bit more.

Force feeding is not the same thing as "getting him to eat" and it's bad for him long-term...it adds a lot of stress to his life and does nothing to help him learn to
take food the right way. This is not the way forward, and can you blame him for trying to bite? Essentially he feels he has been "attacked" by humans (when he
was force-fed!). A snake must be relaxed and feel safe & secure in their homes, or they won't eat. A snake that is striking when you get near his cage is scared
half to death and does NOT feel secure enough to eat or thrive. And yes, they CAN hurt their jaw when they strike & hit the glass.

Your cage is way too big, which is why it's hard to keep warm enough also. His ambient temperature in cage should be higher than 80*, more like 86*...that's
another reason he may be refusing food. He may be too cold...maybe not all the time, but his cage temps. should not be fluctuating so much. Snakes naturally
refuse food when they sense (by temperatures) that the seasons are changing...this is so they don't get stuck with food spoiling in their stomach...they cannot
digest when it's too cold- it will make them sick & can even kill them. I'm not saying your cage is cold enough to do that, just trying to explain their behavior...
the reason snakes instinctively refuse food if they feel a chill in the air.

You should absolutely NOT be giving him distilled water to drink! Please give him normal tap water or bottled DRINKING water like humans drink...the distilled
water is missing essential electrolytes & that can also make him sick, or worse. Scrubbing his bowl every couple days sounds very devoted, but is probably adding
to the stress he's feeling.

So far, you've got most everything wrong that this snake needs to survive & thrive. The solution is NOT taking him to be force-fed...& if he's defensively striking
at you all the time, surely you must realize that he is miserable with you right now? All these issues need to be fixed fairly quickly, for him to stay alive & well.

Many people have told me that distilled water is very healthy for the snake and that tap water is not I am confused? Thanks for the temperature advice I will get that sorted immediately. I was told when I bought the snake by someone who was apparently a "Snake professional" that the bigger the tank the better although he was probably just trying to get me to spend more now that I think about it.

As for the force feeding I won't take him anymore I was stressed and I had no where to go so I went to the feed store and that's what she suggested we do after a couple of hours of trying I did not know it was really bad for them I am really sorry. Edit: He was also always trying to strike before force feeding though as well.

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Originally Posted by Ciaran_songs

As for the force feeding I won't take him anymore I was stressed and I had no where to go so I went to the feed store and that's what she suggested we do after a couple of hours of trying I did not know it was really bad for them I am really sorry. Edit: He was also always trying to strike before force feeding though as well.

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Ball pythons are shy feeders...they like to ambush their prey so they have "the upper hand". Can you imagine how he feels having a rodent shoved into his mouth?
The problem with force-feeding is that it's backwards...the prey your snake should be pouncing on now seems to be attacking him. This could make him harder to
feed in the future, not easier...it can make him afraid of his prey & more picky about what he'll accept. (Yes, I know that some do this procedure in a pinch...but I worry
about just how much skill the woman in the feed store had to do this correctly...& even so, it's a last resort, IMO.)

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Originally Posted by Ciaran_songs

Many people have told me that distilled water is very healthy for the snake and that tap water is not I am confused? Thanks for the temperature advice I will get that sorted immediately. I was told when I bought the snake by someone who was apparently a "Snake professional" that the bigger the tank the better although he was probably just trying to get me to spend more now that I think about it.

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Distilled water belongs in a steam iron, not in a live snake. As I said, snakes (& other living creatures) need the trace minerals (electrolytes) found in normal water.

I think some people* may be confusing other bottled water (spring water etc) with distilled water...they are misinformed. Also, tap water varies from one place to another:
if there is a lot of chlorination in your water (or other chemicals to make it safe to drink), you might want to boil it first so the chlorine will off-gas. Just don't use distilled.
*I think they 'meant well', maybe they were worried about how your local water is purified, & that the chemicals are bad for snakes, which is true. Another thing you can
do if this is the case is to get a water treatment product from a tropical fish or pet store that removes the chlorine/chloramine & heavy metals in tap water. 2 products
that I know of are Instant Ocean brand "Marine Conditioner" ("makes tap water safe" for fish) & Reptisafe "Instant terrarium water conditioner" for all snakes, turtles, etc.

Bigger tanks are great for SOME kinds of snakes...but that's NOT the kind you've got. ;) You have a BP & they like to live in tight rock caves in the wild. So much for that
"expert"...:rolleyes: (& yes, if you bought from a pet store, they were either uninformed- very common!- or trying to make a bigger sale! sadly, that's also common)

How big is your snake? (length, age?)

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Originally Posted by Ciaran_songs

Many people have told me that distilled water is very healthy for the snake and that tap water is not I am confused? Thanks for the temperature advice I will get that sorted immediately. I was told when I bought the snake by someone who was apparently a "Snake professional" that the bigger the tank the better although he was probably just trying to get me to spend more now that I think about it.

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I can't say I've ever seen anywhere, even from poor sources, that you should used distilled water... many better sources actively discourage distilled water.

Here is one source regarding it, it discusses fish/amphibians, but it true of snakes and lizards too.
http://www.reptilesmagazine.com/Rept...stilled-Water/

Are you maybe thinking of dechlorinated water and got the wrong kind? That is something I see recommended a lot and is mostly important if you live in a city that uses high amounts of chlorine to treat tap water. But this is not the same as distilled water at all.

If you don't know you city water treatment, you can look it up, or use a product like ReptiSafe *I think that is the one* that is marketed to make tap water safe for reptiles. As far as I've seen it is mostly a dechlorinator, but since I don't use it, I am not 100% sure. My city tap water is fine, so I just use that.

(Bogertophis beat me to it!)

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The one thing that distilled water IS good for is misting a cage, as it's all those dissolved minerals in water that leaves water spots on the glass...so if you only
use it for that, it's ok (unless you're using it for something like a gecko that drinks all those drops!). That's a good article linked above, thanks pretends2bnormal.

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Originally Posted by Ciaran_songs

I will have to save up paycheck's for a smaller tank then should not take long though, what size should I get?

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Smaller tank? There’s no need. I started my hatchling in a 40 gallon and he did great. He’s about 5 years old now and almost 4’. If you have a larger tank you just need to put more stuff in it to make him feel secure. Adding some extra decor is cheaper than buying multiple enclosures throughout the growing process. Also, ball pythons are notorious for going off food. Check husbandry and don’t handle him until he eats. If you feed at night with a warm rat he should strike. Make sure the rat is warm and wiggle it in front of his hide. This may take awhile and multiple tries but eventually they’ll usually take it.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ciaran_songs

I have not been able to reply for that I am sorry, I have gotten him to eat now the only problem is getting him to eat next time. His tempts on his basking side is at around 90 Fahrenheit at all times sometimes it may drop below that, though that's only when it's cold in my house but I always make sure it's not to cold. His ambient temperature is around 80. These are all temp's that I have been told he should be on if they are wrong please let me know thanks. he has a heating pad under his log and in his other hide there is nothing so that he can choose between heating bad and no heating pad. I have tried feeding him when in his hide he does not take it. The only reason I got him to eat was because I took him to my local feed store in a shoe box crying and there was a lady who helped me for 2 hours try to feed him in the end she ended up force feeding him which I felt bad about. I will have to take him back next time to try again. He has water constantly in a big enough bowl that he can lay in which I take out and scrub every 2-3 days he has distilled water for drinking water. He tries to puke up his mouse constantly it has now been 24 hours since he ate and is still trying to puke it up. Every time I walk by his enclosure he strikes at the glass I am pretty sure he has hurt his jaw now. All he does is try to strike at me even when I am far away. Lately I haven't been able to even open the enclosure anymore without him trying to go for my face. I have tried everything he won't calm down I broke down in tears a couple days ago my mother said that I have 5 months to get him to be tame otherwise she wants him out. There's nothing I can do since I live with her I have tried but she won't let it go she is worried he will get loose and hurt our other animals or me. even though I have clips on his cage lid, as for the size of the enclosure it's 65 gallons and is 4 foot tall with branches but is not to cluttered. I have tried feeding him in a shoe box as well as his enclosure to no avail. All he does is sit in striking position all day I am worried for his health if you need anything further let me know I want him to be happy I am hopeful that I can do it.

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Baby snakes are typically nippy but this sounds like he’s super stressed. Get him eating first then taming him down is super easy. Mine was raised in a tub setup and his only human contact at first was feeding. He too would strike at everything at first. I got leather gloves and handled him for a few minutes a day. Within a few weeks he was perfectly tame. Don’t start handling until he eats 3+ times consecutively.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarkL1561

Smaller tank? There’s no need. I started my hatchling in a 40 gallon and he did great. He’s about 5 years old now and almost 4’. If you have a larger tank you just need to put more stuff in it to make him feel secure. Adding some extra decor is cheaper than buying multiple enclosures throughout the growing process. Also, ball pythons are notorious for going off food. Check husbandry and don’t handle him until he eats. If you feed at night with a warm rat he should strike. Make sure the rat is warm and wiggle it in front of his hide. This may take awhile and multiple tries but eventually they’ll usually take it.


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If you're talking about your one snake then yes, plenty of snakes do fine starting in larger enclosures. But when a young BP isn't eating and is extremely defensive switching to a smaller enclosure often helps.

What works for one animal doesn't work for others. So trying to remedy the situation makes more sense than not. The current setup clearly is not working.

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

If you're talking about your one snake then yes, plenty of snakes do fine starting in larger enclosures. But when a young BP isn't eating and is extremely defensive switching to a smaller enclosure often helps.

What works for one animal doesn't work for others. So trying to remedy the situation makes more sense than not. The current setup clearly is not working.

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Also, the OP stated that maintaining the temps. has been a problem, & that is much harder in a huge (65 gal.) tank for a BP.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Also, the OP stated that maintaining the temps. has been a problem, & that is much harder in a huge (65 gal.) tank for a BP.

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True, just saying you don’t necessarily need a small tank IF you know what you’re doing. It may be easiest for the OP to use a tub setup at first. It’s easy to maintain temps/humidity and the opaque sides help comfort the snake. To me it seems like a lot of the stress is coming from the owner messing with the snake too much. I’m confident that if left alone for awhile he’ll eat. Although the temps do need to be taken care of.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Also, the OP stated that maintaining the temps. has been a problem, & that is much harder in a huge (65 gal.) tank for a BP.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

There are two major reasons a snake will not eat.
1) husbandry is off.
2) they don't feel safe and secure.

I think that switching to a smaller enclosure will help you to improve husbandry as well as provide the security the snake craves.
.

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Agreed

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Originally Posted by Ciaran_songs

...as for the size of the enclosure it's 65 gallons and is 4 foot tall with branches but is not to cluttered..t.

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I truly wish you had read up (here, on this site) well BEFORE you bought this cage & this snake. A large tank is difficult enough, but one this TALL for a terrestrial
species (as ball pythons are) is all wrong...it makes it very hard to keep it warm enough or humid enough, nor is it easy to make it cluttered enough for a BP to feel
like it is "safe" & hidden. (This tank would be great for an arboreal species, or something like a rat snake, that loves to climb...but it's not healthy for a BP, sorry!) :snake:

I don't see where you answered my question as to the size of this BP? (length, age if known?) So that is why I haven't suggested a better size tank or enclosure yet,
but IF you are determined to keep this snake healthy (eating!) I'd suggest that you set up a proper sized tank (or whatever) immediately...since it will take a while
for this snake to de-stress enough to eat for you. Not only was force-feeding this BP a bad idea, but taking it to the feed store & handling it first, or even trying to
feed it in a separate tub at home as I think you tried previously, was almost a guarantee that it would NOT feed on it's own. Handling a snake like this first just destroys
it's confidence & thoughts of food...all it can think of is fear & self-defense. For a BP to want to eat, it needs to feel like it has the "upper hand" over the prey...right now,
he's feeling like HE IS the prey. Do you understand?

So unless you plan to obtain another snake that will do well in this large & tall tank, the best thing you can do is to prepare the proper cage for this snake now, & you
can probably sell this tank to someone working with a species that it's appropriate for. I cannot imagine a BP in a 4 foot tall cage...it's just an awful idea- a mistake.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ciaran_songs

As for the force feeding I won't take him anymore I was stressed and I had no where to go so I went to the feed store and that's what she suggested we do after a couple of hours of trying I did not know it was really bad for them I am really sorry. Edit: He was also always trying to strike before force feeding though as well.

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You might of just got a mean snake, sometimes that happens. I would suggest keeping his handling to a minimum until he starts eating normally or chills out. I would honestly suggest cleaning your room really well too and washing your hands and drying them every time before you handle him. It’s quite possible your BP smells a rabbit on you or constantly smells it in your room. Having another animals sent around could stress it out. The MOST important thing you can do is not stress, you should look into anxiety medicine if your anxiety is that bad, mine is and I’m medicated for it that’s why I’m suggesting that to you. BP are weird eaters but they can go a whole hell of a lot of time without food. The first time my ball python went on hunger strike the internet was not around like this and it scared me but everything turned around, he did not touch food for 6 months and he was still a juvenile. I literally did nothing different other than just leave him alone a little more then he started eating like normal. Just be hopeful and I’m sure it will for you to. LASTLY I would highly highly suggest against taking your snake anywhere and force feeding it unless a experienced vet who handles exotic animals tells you so. Also if your snake ends up staying that tempered you could always go to Pet-Co and see about their return policy and try your chances with another ball python.

EDIT: your anxiety and stress could be sensed by the snake in turn stressing it out further (who knows) I’m just assuming so try to stay calm when your around it. At least if it benefits anyone it would still benefit you.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarkL1561

True, just saying you don’t necessarily need a small tank IF you know what you’re doing. It may be easiest for the OP to use a tub setup at first. It’s easy to maintain temps/humidity and the opaque sides help comfort the snake. To me it seems like a lot of the stress is coming from the owner messing with the snake too much. I’m confident that if left alone for awhile he’ll eat. Although the temps do need to be taken care of.


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Even "IF you know what you're doing" some animals respond differently than others.

When starting to go through the troubleshooting process in this situation the enclosure size is a glaring mistake. Trying to maintain temps in a 4 foot tall enclosure will be a nightmare, especially for a new keeper.

There's a reason plenty of people who "know what they're doing" suggest starting juveniles in smaller enclosures...because it works the vast majority of the time.
Of course, there are exceptions to every rule. But simply "knowing what you're doing" doesn't mean that will work for every animal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NewmanLovesSnakes

The MOST important thing you can do is not stress, you should look into anxiety medicine if your anxiety is that bad, mine is and I’m medicated for it that’s why I’m suggesting that to you.....


LASTLY I would highly highly suggest against taking your snake anywhere and force feeding it unless a experienced vet who handles exotic animals tells you so.

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A) suggesting to what appears to be a teenager that they should look into being medicated really isn't cool. Don't you think OP has doctors? And how can you say to somebody you don't know from a hole in the wall that they should look into mental health medication????
NOT COOL!!!!

I also take meds and am in the process of being treated for bipolar depression. So believe me, I understand mental health and how real it is. But suggesting that on a public forum without knowing anything about OP really is NOT COOL.


B) Any vet who knows what they're talking about regarding herps will never tell you to transport an animal that knows how to eat in order to force feed it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

A) suggesting to what appears to be a teenager that they should look into being medicated really isn't cool. Don't you think OP has doctors? And how can you say to somebody you don't know from a hole in the wall that they should look into mental health medication????
NOT COOL!!!!

I also take meds and am in the process of being treated for bipolar depression. So believe me, I understand mental health and how real it is. But suggesting that on a public forum without knowing anything about OP really is NOT COOL.


B) Any vet who knows what they're talking about regarding herps will never tell you to transport an animal that knows how to eat in order to force feed it.

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Yeah that’s your opinion and your entitled to it, we cant just assume this persons age either. If you have a mental condition then you understand the kind of hell that can bring someone. I have anxiety, depression and PTSD. I literally have to talk myself off the edge a few times a month and that’s with medication. Regardless of how you feel it’s not a bad thing to suggest someone to get on medication to attempt to improve their quality of life. Arguing with you about that is definitely off topic of treating a ball python, since I did not in fact point that advise to you so lets not open that can of worms.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by NewmanLovesSnakes

Yeah that’s your opinion and your entitled to it, we cant just assume this persons age either. If you have a mental condition then you understand the kind of hell that can bring someone. I have anxiety, depression and PTSD. I literally have to talk myself off the edge a few times a month and that’s with medication. Regardless of how you feel it’s not a bad thing to suggest someone to see a Dr or get on medication to attempt to improve their quality of life. Arguing with you about that is definitely off topic of treating a ball python, since I did not in fact point that advise to you so lets not open that can of worms.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by NewmanLovesSnakes

Yeah that’s your opinion and your entitled to it, we cant just assume this persons age either. If you have a mental condition then you understand the kind of hell that can bring someone. I have anxiety, depression and PTSD. I literally have to talk myself off the edge a few times a month and that’s with medication. Regardless of how you feel it’s not a bad thing to suggest someone to get on medication to attempt to improve their quality of life. Arguing with you about that is definitely off topic of treating a ball python, since I did not in fact point that advise to you so lets not open that can of worms.


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Maybe you feel comfortable discussing your private medical history on a public forum. But that is YOUR decision about YOUR health.

Talking about mental health is still extremely difficult for some people and a public forum is not the place to suggest it, especially since nobody asked for an opinion on mental health or medication.

I'm not going to argue with you, but show other people enough respect to not bring their health into a conversation that didn't ask for it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

Maybe you feel comfortable discussing your private medical history on a public forum. But that is YOUR decision about YOUR health.

Talking about mental health is still extremely difficult for some people and a public forum is not the place to suggest it, especially since nobody asked for an opinion on mental health or medication.

I'm not going to argue with you, but show other people enough respect to not bring their health into a conversation that didn't ask for it.

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The OP stated several times that he is stressed, his anxiety is bad, he’s crying and freaking out. I’m only trying to help. You should show enough respect and mind your business if you are not PARTICULARLY addressed, are you the OP? No your not, if he takes offense I’ll gladly apologize, I know what it’s like to feel how the OP does. You can keep scrolling if you don’t like what I said. I’ve known many people who have just straight killed them self’s because no one could suggest them any care. You are upset because you have a different opinion than mine and I’m sure not going to cater my advise to others so it will suit your liking. If I offended you personally that was not my intentions and I am sorry but none of that advise was meant for you.


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A reminder this is not a medical board, stay on topic please - Thank you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I truly wish you had read up (here, on this site) well BEFORE you bought this cage & this snake. A large tank is difficult enough, but one this TALL for a terrestrial
species (as ball pythons are) is all wrong...it makes it very hard to keep it warm enough or humid enough, nor is it easy to make it cluttered enough for a BP to feel
like it is "safe" & hidden. (This tank would be great for an arboreal species, or something like a rat snake, that loves to climb...but it's not healthy for a BP, sorry!) :snake:

I don't see where you answered my question as to the size of this BP? (length, age if known?) So that is why I haven't suggested a better size tank or enclosure yet,
but IF you are determined to keep this snake healthy (eating!) I'd suggest that you set up a proper sized tank (or whatever) immediately...since it will take a while
for this snake to de-stress enough to eat for you. Not only was force-feeding this BP a bad idea, but taking it to the feed store & handling it first, or even trying to
feed it in a separate tub at home as I think you tried previously, was almost a guarantee that it would NOT feed on it's own. Handling a snake like this first just destroys
it's confidence & thoughts of food...all it can think of is fear & self-defense. For a BP to want to eat, it needs to feel like it has the "upper hand" over the prey...right now,
he's feeling like HE IS the prey. Do you understand?

So unless you plan to obtain another snake that will do well in this large & tall tank, the best thing you can do is to prepare the proper cage for this snake now, & you
can probably sell this tank to someone working with a species that it's appropriate for. I cannot imagine a BP in a 4 foot tall cage...it's just an awful idea- a mistake.

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Great advice! I actually missed that the tank was 4’ tall. That seems insane to me and makes me wonder if your measurements are correct. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a glass tank with the dimensions you listed. I’d go to wallmart and grab a ziplock locking bin around 24” x 12” should be ok. If you need to maintain humidity drill the holes on the side not the top. Then get an uth with a thermostat. Once temps are good leave the snake alone for a week before offering food. After that do not handle until he eats 3+ times. So basically you will not be touching your snake for a month or more.


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Also I thought I’d add that this threads tone seems a tad rude. Don’t take these things personally as everyone makes mistakes. I’m pretty confident that your snake will be fine if you take the advice mentioned. Please do not panic or stress out too much as the fixes you have to make are not super difficult. Everything will be fine if you fix your husbandry and just leave the snake be. Please keep us up to date on your animals progress and we’ll try to help you along the way [emoji846]


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarkL1561

Great advice! I actually missed that the tank was 4’ tall. That seems insane to me and makes me wonder if your measurements are correct...

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FYI, if you'd been reading all the OP's posts, you'd also know that her native language is French, so for all we know she may well live in France, or at least NOT the U.S.-
& the pet store she went to may sell very different things than we are used to seeing "on this side of the pond". Caging designed perhaps for arboreal species...;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

FYI, if you'd been reading all the OP's posts, you'd also know that her native language is French, so for all we know she may well live in France, or at least NOT the U.S.-
& the pet store she went to may sell very different things than we are used to seeing "on this side of the pond". Caging designed perhaps for arboreal species...;)

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France isn’t Mars [emoji23] I’m sure they’re made but seems really weird to have a 65 gallon that tall. I doubt it’s for aboreal species as much as it’s designed for fish. The reason I brought up the measurement thing is maybe he/she isn’t used to our system. Maybe they incorrectly converted metric units [emoji2371] So yes, I did read the posts which is why I pointed this out. It’s never good to assume.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

so for all we know she may well live in France, or at least NOT the U.S.-

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There are no petsmart in France :gj:, but there are French people in the US, like myself among others ;)

Any luck on getting him to eat? Here’s a link that might help, came up in my recommendations a while ago.
https://youtu.be/ly5w25kT-hM


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by NewmanLovesSnakes

You might of just got a mean snake, sometimes that happens. I would suggest keeping his handling to a minimum until he starts eating normally or chills out. I would honestly suggest cleaning your room really well too and washing your hands and drying them every time before you handle him. It’s quite possible your BP smells a rabbit on you or constantly smells it in your room. Having another animals sent around could stress it out. The MOST important thing you can do is not stress, you should look into anxiety medicine if your anxiety is that bad, mine is and I’m medicated for it that’s why I’m suggesting that to you. BP are weird eaters but they can go a whole hell of a lot of time without food. The first time my ball python went on hunger strike the internet was not around like this and it scared me but everything turned around, he did not touch food for 6 months and he was still a juvenile. I literally did nothing different other than just leave him alone a little more then he started eating like normal. Just be hopeful and I’m sure it will for you to. LASTLY I would highly highly suggest against taking your snake anywhere and force feeding it unless a experienced vet who handles exotic animals tells you so. Also if your snake ends up staying that tempered you could always go to Pet-Co and see about their return policy and try your chances with another ball python.

EDIT: your anxiety and stress could be sensed by the snake in turn stressing it out further (who knows) I’m just assuming so try to stay calm when your around it. At least if it benefits anyone it would still benefit you.


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I have a rabbit who lives in the same room as my ball python and 2 other snakes. My dogs sleep in the bedroom at night with the bunny. One of my cats love to lounge around the room for a few hours each day.

None of the animals scent caused any behavioral issues with any of my snakes.

They acted no differently than the ones outside of the bedroom. They still hunger for food when it is feeding day, and hangs out just fine when it is not feeding day. I don't wash my hands after grooming my bunny and then handle my snakes. Bunnies, at least to our noses, have no smell. They should not smell at all. Mice or rats smell. Secondly, I'm sure snakes know the difference in smell between a bunny and a mouse. I know that they can tell which is a rat or mouse when I offer both to my woma who eats both but reacts hesitantly toward the rat and strikes within seconds for the mouse.

I agree downsizing your enclosure may help. I am not sure what is available around your area but tubs or plastic containers are usually more affordable than glass tanks. Drill some holes and you are good to go.

Lastly, I have anxiety too myself. Some days are worse than others but nowhere near the scope where it is interfering with my day to day life, but it creeps close that edge. So I get it, many of us do. I felt the same way when mine did not eat either. Picky eaters require a lot of patience on the owners part. If it has become too much for you, I would not hold it against you to take your snake back to the store and get an easier snake to work with (ie cornsnakes), but you should still have some time to remedy this situation. I assure you that your snake will eat when all things go right for him. It is on his terms, and you have to help him get there. Do what you can with what you have.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cheesenugget

I have a rabbit who lives in the same room as my ball python and 2 other snakes. My dogs sleep in the bedroom at night with the bunny. One of my cats love to lounge around the room for a few hours each day.

None of the animals scent caused any behavioral issues with any of my snakes.

They acted no differently than the ones outside of the bedroom. They still hunger for food when it is feeding day, and hangs out just fine when it is not feeding day. I don't wash my hands after grooming my bunny and then handle my snakes. Bunnies, at least to our noses, have no smell. They should not smell at all. Mice or rats smell. Secondly, I'm sure snakes know the difference in smell between a bunny and a mouse. I know that they can tell which is a rat or mouse when I offer both to my woma who eats both but reacts hesitantly toward the rat and strikes within seconds for the mouse.

I agree downsizing your enclosure may help. I am not sure what is available around your area but tubs or plastic containers are usually more affordable than glass tanks. Drill some holes and you are good to go.

Lastly, I have anxiety too myself. Some days are worse than others but nowhere near the scope where it is interfering with my day to day life, but it creeps close that edge. So I get it, many of us do. I felt the same way when mine did not eat either. Picky eaters require a lot of patience on the owners part. If it has become too much for you, I would not hold it against you to take your snake back to the store and get an easier snake to work with (ie cornsnakes), but you should still have some time to remedy this situation. I assure you that your snake will eat when all things go right for him. It is on his terms, and you have to help him get there. Do what you can with what you have.

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My buddy used to have a red tail boa that would hit the glass every time his dog came by, do your ball pythons pay any attention to the other animals around?


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by NewmanLovesSnakes

My buddy used to have a red tail boa that would hit the glass every time his dog came by, do your ball pythons pay any attention to the other animals around?


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Nope. Not at all. Inside and outside his tub. Next to my other pets or not. Same goes for my food frenzy king, Children's python and woma. My CP sometimes strikes the glass when I approached him and he gets way too excited thinking food is coming. But my cats sometimes would sleep on top of his tank (mesh lid) and he would not react with any strikes, just hanging out and waiting for food.

The boa could be striking out of fear, out of excitement thinking food is coming (not because the dog is the food item), etc.

My snakes share a room with my ferrets. They've never shown any interest in each other at all. They all eat well and none ever strike the glass (well, except my Borneo and King when they know it's feeding time).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cheesenugget

Nope. Not at all. Inside and outside his tub. Next to my other pets or not. Same goes for my food frenzy king, Children's python and woma. My CP sometimes strikes the glass when I approached him and he gets way too excited thinking food is coming. But my cats sometimes would sleep on top of his tank (mesh lid) and he would not react with any strikes, just hanging out and waiting for food.

The boa could be striking out of fear, out of excitement thinking food is coming (not because the dog is the food item), etc.

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I did not think of that, I think his snake was huge, he was over 5 feet for sure and thick. He was kind of mean so I never wanted anything to do with him. The dog was really small, less than 10 pounds so who knows what it was. Every single time he saw that dog he was hitting the glass lol


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