What to add and possibly pair with my Pastel

Opinions on what we should get to eventually pair with our girl below?? We were thinking possibly a Banana. What are some other good choices??

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https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4n...ew?usp=sharing

I'd say pairing it with nothing would be a good idea based on reading the other thread.....

However, I get the impression even a nuclear event probably won't stop you, so I'll humor you... go with a multi gene male, at least 2 maybe even 3 genes, but I'd go with something besides banana... pastel tends to wash out banana, at least in my opinion. A fire enchi might be a good choice, as there will be contrast and brightness, and an orange dream fire enchi could have fantastic potential if the odds are in your favor.

Just throwing this out there... but before you go down this route, picture what you will do with, say, eight babies. That's probably a lot, but it could happen. Would your plans change if they were all normals? (Depending on odds and what the male is, it could happen)
Let's say you're hoping to keep one or two that you hatched, just because you like them and they're adorable, and still assuming you don't care about losing $$. You still have six to find good homes for. Do you have six friends who would give a free (or for a donation to a reptile rescue instead of free?) baby snake a good forever home? If the answer is no, does that answer change if they are fancy morphs?

It seems to me that the first question should be how you will find good forever homes for whatever hatchlings you get. That's not impossible - normal ball pythons are beautiful, and so are individuals that are considered not great examples of their morphs. Babies are adorable. And they can make wonderful pets for the right people. So it's not impossible that you could pair her with a normal male and get a bunch of babies that no morph enthusiast will want to bother with, but which could still be someone's beloved pet if you can find those someones.

So if you feel good about sending the babies off to good homes even if they aren't anything special morph-wise, then go ahead.

Quality in = quality out.
If you just want the experience of a clutch then just find whatever to pair to that female.
If you want to make them all worth keeping go with something along the lines of a Clown Banana Lesser or a Clown Enchi Banana. Then at the least you would all have Het Clowns.

Honestly there is not much point in breeding a pastel to anything. If you want to breed, invest in some quality animals. Then you will make combos worth keeping and have no problem finding homes for the ones you decide not to keep.

You all crack me up to judge just because someone is interested in breeding bp’s i am guessing you are all breeders who lost money because everyone does it so someone being curious pisses you off and you act like children

Personally don't care what you want to assume.
YOU asked for advise but don't want to listen.....

Who was judging you?
Didn't judge when you couldnt identify your own animal.
Just saying.

Yes, experianced breeders have tried to give you advise.
Make money, lose money or a push....
Changes every year.
Its a hobby or business with a purpose, not just about throwing two animals together because you can.
The human population does that enough.

You can make smart choices or stupid ones.
Though you think some of us are acting childish?? We can take our balls and go home so you can figure it out on your own like most of us have done without any help.
Good luck to you.

Assuming your not breeding snakes for profit: If I was just starting out and not investing my 401K plan in ball pythons: I might pair her up with a Spider/Orange Dream male and make a few Bumblebees.

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Originally Posted by Lord Sorril

Spider/Orange Dream male and make a few Bumblebees.

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I never recommend Spiders to any newb, they usually are not ready to handle the wobble, not to mention hatching out full on corkscrewers.

Exactly it is a hobby not a business. And advice would have been your opinions on what would be a good pair not if i was going to breed her it would be with “nothing!” and like i said i new it was pastel byt wanted to make sure. Hahah laughable forum full of judgers

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Originally Posted by BPgirls

You all crack me up to judge just because someone is interested in breeding bp’s i am guessing you are all breeders who lost money because everyone does it so someone being curious pisses you off and you act like children

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:rofl::rofl::rofl: Been doing this 12 years and I am doing very well thank you but I have seen plenty losing money and being disappointed and loosing their passion, WE want to prevent you from making a mistake and you in turn act like a teenager know it all. :rolleyes:

You want to breed a pastel and be stuck with babies that will cost you on average $100 a year per animal knowing you will have about 6 to 12 of them and they retail for $25/$50, go for it and don't say you were not warned.

Or you could act like an adult listen to people that know the market, know what it takes foresee a big mistake ahead from someone that does not know a pastel from a normal to start with and yet is already jumping on the breeding bandwagon (I won't even ask how long you have been keeping BP)

For the past 12 years I have been seeing people like you every year and all of those that don't give a thought about the big picture end up being in the red (that's what happen when you don't make a profit or even break even) sell everything within 3 to 5 years some do worse than that also.

You got to learn to walk before you can run.

Breeding a pastel nowadays is no better than breeding a normal no one really wants them they have become the disposable animal.

So yeah keep asking for advice and dismiss them and act like you know it all......it won't be the first it won't be the last which is sad when people are actually willing to help you.....oh well.

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Originally Posted by BPgirls

Exactly it is a hobby not a business. And advice would have been your opinions on what would be a good pair not if i was going to breed her it would be with “nothing!”

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And thats all you took out of that?
What is your reason for wanting to breed?
A good breeder wants to produce good looking animals.
A better breeder wants to produce quality animals.
A great breeder wants to produce stunning animals AND is prepared to house them for their life if needed.

I am only looking for recomendations because i am new to it and want to give it a try not lookong for anything crazy and yea i will be keep all of the clutch for my own collection.

And no i get what alot of you are saying that breeding to a pastel means i may get normals and not desirable morphs and people won’t want thsm, but that is not what i am looking for. I am interested in tryon to breed as i have mever breds bp’s before but have owned bp’s all my life strictly as pets nothing more. I have 2 other normal bp’s both are 3500 grams. But this was somethong i picked up at petsmart last year that caught my eye and was labeled fancy nothing more. I researched and seen it resembled a pastel and wanted to cofirm thats what it was. I get that its pretty much close to a normal and it seems as though if i want to breed it better to actually buy hogher end morphs to do so but i was only looking to for my own personal collection didnt want to go crazy my first time.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Breeding a pastel nowadays is no better than breeding a normal no one really wants them they have become the disposable animal.

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Now to disagree..... A good looking Pastel would be a great addition to any genetic pool.
Her animal is not a breeder. Not saying it isnt pet quality but there is nothing there that would make a good addition to a project.
I still have my first normal females BUT I would never breed them because not only would it be a loss for me but the hatchlings as well.

That i understand, so basically if i really want some beautiful offspring its better to purchase say a banana and say another high colored morph and start with a project like that

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Originally Posted by BPgirls

And no i get what alot of you are saying that breeding to a pastel means i may get normals and not desirable morphs and people won’t want thsm, but that is not what i am looking for. I am interested in tryon to breed as i have mever breds bp’s before but have owned bp’s all my life strictly as pets nothing more. I have 2 other normal bp’s both are 3500 grams. But this was somethong i picked up at petsmart last year that caught my eye and was labeled fancy nothing more. I researched and seen it resembled a pastel and wanted to cofirm thats what it was. I get that its pretty much close to a normal and it seems as though if i want to breed it better to actually buy hogher end morphs to do so but i was only looking to for my own personal collection didnt want to go crazy my first time.

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Who sexed it?
If you are lucky and actually have 3 females and think you really want to expand your collection.........Get a multi gene male like one of the two I mentioned and you could produce more variety by breaking down the males genetics. And as already said, they would all be Het Clown. I prefer using a visual recessive so that I know everything produced is 100% het.

They were popped by my vet all are females.

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Originally Posted by BPgirls

That i understand, so basically if i really want some beautiful offspring its better to purchase say a banana and say another high colored morph and start with a project like that

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Not necessarily. You can start with a Pastel BUT it better be one great looking animal with minimal to now browning, have great blushing and color pop that will make you gaze for days.

I understand. I may have jumped the gun on attacking people back but just seemed it all came down to money money money, which i was not looking to make. Thats why i posted her picture to see if there would be a good match that may produce a brighter color i know a banana could produce high colored pastels but could also muddy the banana if produced.

It's ok, we really just don't want you getting stuck with snakes you can't move if you need to get rid of them for some reason. Too many people do that, and end up having to sell them later on and it can be nearly impossible unless they are sold for cheap and that just isn't fair to anyone.

It's getting really hard to sell bps, mostly because there are so many out there, so unless you have the newest most popular thing going they can cost you more than they are worth. And keep in mind that the bigger they get, the more expensive they get to feed and house.... especially if you get stuck with one that only eats live prey or something.

Totally agree. Kinda of took offense like my pastel was being xalled ugly hahah because honestly is the best BP i ever owned temperment wise. And thats why i tried to make it clear non were to be sold for profit.

I guess my main question is why do you want to breed?

Owning an animal does not justify breeding it. A lot of people own dogs but you don't see everyone trying to breed them. However, in the BP community, everyone wants to breed. Creating any new life comes with a responsibility and should not be done as a science experiment.

If you decide to breed, figure out what you're going to do with the animals before hand, not after. Make sure you have proper space as well as a budget to feed them.

The OG users who give you advice here have seen numerous of people on this forum who start breeding projects that end up on the 'for sale' thread within a few months. I'm sure they don't want the same to happen to you and therefore give you realistic advice.

:rofl::rofl: He said OG :rofl::rofl:
Who you calling old??

I get all the advice but i am not sure how clear i need to make that the clutch is for my own personal collection. I have plenty of $ and room for anoth 6-12 bps. So that is why when they all kept bringing up money it was getting to me as i said i would be keeping them all myself.

OP, I'm glad to see you're changing your tune a bit.
You're getting some great advice from some experienced, knowledgeable people. Nobody is judging or acting childish, well, not any more, since you seem to have realized that you were the one jumping to conclusions and acting childish. But, you seem to have turned a corner and I applaud you for that.

Now, my two cents: the people offering advice are trying to HELP you. Because you're about the millionth person to start basically the same thread. Right now there are 10,772 BPs for sale just on morphmarket.com. Over TEN THOUSAND!!!!! JUST ON ONE PLATFORM!!!
The BP world is extremely over saturated at this time. There is simply not a market for normals or most single gene morphs anymore. And breeding them just adds to an already over filled pool of undesirable animals.

So, before you go any further, consider this: these are living, breathing animals. They aren't toys, they aren't collectibles, they are LIVES.

So, ask yourself these questions:

1) am I prepared to keep ALL of the babies I produce?
That means enclosures, setups, vet bills, food, electricity, etc...etc...etc... possibly forever? Or at least for an extended period of time? Because unloading normals and single gene animals when you have no reputation as a breeder will take a long time.

2) am I prepared to cull any animals that have deformities and won't be able to survive or thrive?

3) do I even know what to look for when regarding deformities? Do I know ethically which animals should be culled?

4) am I prepared for huge potential vet bills if something goes wrong?

I can go on, but unless you can confidently answer "yes" to the above questions, you're not ready to breed.


Edit: I didn't see you last reply til after I sent this. That answers SOME of my questions.

Yes. And thats why i tried to make it clear that i in no way want to be a full on breeder and sel BP’s. Just wanted to have one clutcc for myself. And yes i have a vet, know how to set up racks (which is super easy).

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Originally Posted by BPgirls

Yes. And thats why i tried to make it clear that i in no way want to be a full on breeder and sel BP’s. Just wanted to have one clutcc for myself. And yes i have a vet, know how to set up racks (which is super easy).

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Ok. Sounds like you're confident and have your mind made up. So, if you're truly capable of caring f9r them all I say do some serious home work and go for it.

To answer your original question of what to pair up with your pastel:
They will ALL be YOUR snakes. Pair what YOU like.

And to the point that i was acting childish. I get i was going at some people but the point was i just was curious. Even if i was to add to my collection for breeding it would not even begin for another year or 2 being they have to be proper age and size. Was just asking opinions. And every post was a out how much it would cost me and i appreciate the advice but i understand the cost as i have breed leo’s before and even crested’s which can be expensive as well. Just figured i gice BP’s a try one ime.

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Originally Posted by BPgirls

And to the point that i was acting childish. I get i was going at some people but the point was i just was curious. Even if i was to add to my collection for breeding it would not even begin for another year or 2 being they have to be proper age and size. Was just asking opinions. And every post was a out how much it would cost me and i appreciate the advice but i understand the cost as i have breed leo’s before and even crested’s which can be expensive as well. Just figured i gice BP’s a try one ime.

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...and like I said, you've turned a corner and are acting like a mature, respectful adult. And again, I applaud you for that.

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Originally Posted by BPgirls

Yes. And thats why i tried to make it clear that i in no way want to be a full on breeder and sel BP’s. Just wanted to have one clutcc for myself. And yes i have a vet, know how to set up racks (which is super easy).

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Everything in life is about money, the difference here is you are making the choice to make animals that don't have the choice of being here or not. Cost is not only about making the sale but well being of the animal as well.
The truth isn't always unicorns and raindow farts, many times it isn't what you want to hear but there is always a good reason many of us will take the time out of our busy personal lives to respond to posts like these. Doesn't matter to me that someone else wants to breed as long as they are going into it it eyes wide open. Sometimes they need help to see the truths.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

:rofl::rofl: He said OG :rofl::rofl:
Who you calling old??

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Lol! ;)