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White Snakes
This is perhaps a stupid question.
What snakes belong in the so called White Snake Maker Complex?
I guess what I am asking is what combos produce either Snow White or Ivory Babies, this would include white snakes with reduced or very faint patterns.
I call on all opinions.
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Don't you mean the BEL complex? Or is there some other White Snake Complex that I don't know about LOL
An Ivory is a super yellow belly which is unrelated to BELs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser
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Blue eyed leucistics: (any combo of below)
Butter/Lesser
Mojave
Mocha
Bamboo
Russo
Special
Mystic/Phantom
Daddy
Black eyed leucistics: (any combo of below)
Vanilla
Fire
Disco
Brite
Flame
Sulfur
Lemonback
Sauce
Mixing of black eyed and blue eyed complex genes will not produce white snakes. Only between each other in same complex.
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Thank You to everyone who answered, much appreciated.
I have a thing for pure white snakes. lol
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White Snakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptilius
Thank You to everyone who answered, much appreciated.
I have a thing for pure white snakes. lol
Same [emoji4]
I'm still looking for the Whitest White though ..
I wonder if there's an accepted combo that gives the best WHITES ??
There's a stunner in this forum that I keep seeing but guess lighting is always a factor ?!
Just been reading through the Super Russo thread - interesting!
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Re: White Snakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zincubus
I wonder if there's an accepted combo that gives the best WHITES ??
All-white BlkEL and/or all-white Pied combo.
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Re: White Snakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by asplundii
All-white BlkEL and/or all-white Pied combo.
Almost every super or ALS created from the BlkEL or BluEL has the ability to be "pure" white, but can also have pattern.
I have seen Super Fire BlkELs that have a lot of pattern and I've seen some that were pure white, not sure what dictates the bleed through of the pattern in some but not others. The BlkEL and BlueEL complexes are fascinating because of the many different "forms." Some of them seem to be one-offs of others while some are obviously different alleles.
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My guy is a Lesser Mojave and exceptionally clean. Although in the right lighting I do see a faint yellow dorsal stripe, not sure it that will stay faint or get more or less pronounced as he ages.
He's striking nonetheless and seems less threatening to my snake-afeared friends somehow, but I think I prefer pattern. He's my daughter's so my next snake will be all mine and full of pattern!
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I am getting ready to do a bucket of white snakes picture. Waiting on one to come out of the egg. No two of the same combo. Will be interesting to see the opinions on the "whitest".
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Re: White Snakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo Serpent
Almost every super or ALS created from the BlkEL or BluEL has the ability to be "pure" white, but can also have pattern.
I will disagree with you here, there are some combos within each group that will never be pure white (like SuperPhantom or SuperVanilla).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo Serpent
not sure what dictates the bleed through of the pattern in some but not others.
It is determined by the "strength" of the allele(s) you are working with, "stronger" alleles (e.g., more highly expressed mutation) will give reduce the likelihood of patterning/colouring arising. Lesser is stronger than Mojave is stronger than Phantom and so SuperLesser is less patterned/coloured than SuperMojave is less patterned/coloured than Phantom.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan
I am getting ready to do a bucket of white snakes picture. Waiting on one to come out of the egg. No two of the same combo. Will be interesting to see the opinions on the "whitest".
This will be interesting to see however I think you already know my caution that what these animals look like as hatchlings can be very different to how they look as adults. What people say is the "whitest" at 100g could look very different at 1000g.
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Re: White Snakes
Did someone say white snake? Could not resist.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...c90cc73720.jpg
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JodanOrNoDan, I wait in anticipation for those pics.
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Re: White Snakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by asplundii
This will be interesting to see however I think you already know my caution that what these animals look like as hatchlings can be very different to how they look as adults. What people say is the "whitest" at 100g could look very different at 1000g.
Not only that, but it seems to be also influenced by the time of year and where they are in the shed cycle. Mojave complex BEL's hatch out light pink. I am not sure about YB or fire. I should have an Ivory baby this year. No babies in the fire complex though. That is next year.
In any case, I should have enough white animals of various ages and gene combos to have a little fun with. My original "operation" was designed to make RELs in as many combos as possible. Off of the top of my head, I think I have six clutches this year that will contain white snakes. All my other projects are being done to finance making the white snakes. LOL
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Re: White Snakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by asplundii
I will disagree with you here, there are some combos within each group that will never be pure white (like SuperPhantom or SuperVanilla).
That is why I prefaced it by saying almost every super or ALS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by asplundii
It is determined by the "strength" of the allele(s) you are working with, "stronger" alleles (e.g., more highly expressed mutation) will give reduce the likelihood of patterning/colouring arising. Lesser is stronger than Mojave is stronger than Phantom and so SuperLesser is less patterned/coloured than SuperMojave is less patterned/coloured than Phantom.
I understand, but I would love to see a genetic comparison between them, although they are allelic, maybe the strongest of them all would actually be the alleles that provide the non white supers. But again its all speculation until we could breakdown each morph to basic levels to look. This is one of the reasons why I love all of this, its very fascinating how it all works and how we can influence each aspect of it by introducing modifier genes for color and pattern.
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Re: White Snakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by asplundii
I will disagree with you here, there are some combos within each group that will never be pure white (like SuperPhantom or SuperVanilla).
Super Fire also has yellow markings along the back.
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Re: White Snakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyrivers
Great group , great songs and he had an amazing 'spoken' voice ..
Very 'well spoken' as I recall ..
I still recall 'that' video featuring his super-model u
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Re: White Snakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zincubus
Great group , great songs and he had an amazing 'spoken' voice ..
Very 'well spoken' as I recall ..
I still recall 'that' video featuring his super-model girlfriend and a car ..
:)
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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Re: White Snakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zincubus
Great group , great songs and he had an amazing 'spoken' voice ..
Very 'well spoken' as I recall ..
I still recall 'that' video featuring his super-model u
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Yeah, they were good in a few of their incarnations.
Left field question...
I'm curious to hear what the rockers out there think of the band Greta van Fleet. If you don't know who they are, you should probably check them out.
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Re: White Snakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan
Yeah, they were good in a few of their incarnations.
Left field question...
I'm curious to hear what the rockers out there think of the band Greta van Fleet. If you don't know who they are, you should probably check them out.
My colleague raves about them ... sadly I just hear them as Led Zeppelin wannabes..
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Re: White Snakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zincubus
My colleague raves about them ... sadly I just hear them as Led Zeppelin wannabes..
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Yeah, same thing I said in the beginning. Zep being my all time favorite band, my reaction was "how dare you!". Then I kept listening. I finally admitted the kids were good. Even Robert acknowledged them.
My original distaste evolved into "why not?". Zep is not going to put out anything new. Robert can still sing but not like that. I am now happy to hear that sound again and am glad there are young people playing it. If they can somehow get Mr. Page to sit behind the mixing board then we may get to hear another generation of Zep.
And don't forget, back in the day, Coverdale was constantly accused of trying to be a Plant clone.
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Re: White Snakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo Serpent
I understand, but I would love to see a genetic comparison between them, although they are allelic, maybe the strongest of them all would actually be the alleles that provide the non white supers. But again its all speculation until we could breakdown each morph to basic levels to look.
I was not using a literal definition of strongest which is why I put quotation marks around it and defined the meaning I was using... It is not speculation to see the exact trend I pointed out. If I put a Mojave, a WT, a Lesser, and a Phantom in your hands and asked you put them in order of most to least different you would come up with Lesser : Mojave : Phantom : WT. Likewise, if I put a SuperMojave, a WT, a SuperLesser, and a SuperPhantom in your hands and asked you put them in order of most to least different you would come up with SuperLesser:SuperMojave:SuperPhantom:WT. The actual mechanism of the genetics behind it are moot, it is simply the phenotypic expression we are dealing with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan
Not only that, but it seems to be also influenced by the time of year and where they are in the shed cycle.
Shed cycle certainly makes a difference. My Ivory gets dirtier-looking as he gets closer to shed. My SuperFire, on the other hand, gets more and more red/pink flushed as she approaches shed (I have a great pic of them side-by-side... I really need to find a new/better hosting site)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan
Mojave complex BEL's hatch out light pink. I am not sure about YB or fire.
My SuperFires had a pinkish flush to them when they hatched. My Passions, by contrast, had a more grey/blue tone to them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan
In any case, I should have enough white animals of various ages and gene combos to have a little fun with. My original "operation" was designed to make RELs in as many combos as possible. Off of the top of my head, I think I have six clutches this year that will contain white snakes.
Depending on what you produce I may need to talk to you about adding some things to my collection... There area a couple of the Albino hetBluELs that I have been considering.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ax01
imma just leave these two here:
Interesting pic. Perhaps it is an artifact of the photo itself or my computer screen but that CherryBomb seems to have a slight yellow tone to it compared to the other animal (PiedLesser I am guessing based on the microphthalmia???)
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Aside from all white pieds, I thought super lesser creates the cleanest BlueEL's... though the chances of bug eyes was something that kinda deferred people from making them.
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