RBI Hide Boxes VS Vivarium Electronics?

Just received 2 Hides from RBI and they are thin and warped. Also when I went to wash them before using they are slippery as hell when wet. I opened up the enclosures and all the other Hides I have say Vivarium Electronics on the inside of them. They aren't slippery at all and much heavier plastic not warped. Whats the deal? Did RBI start making cheap and thin Hides since the ones I bought a year ago marked VE?


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I just degreased them and they aren't slippery anymore but I cant get the smell off of them. They have a chemical smell. Im thinking its the Plastic process or chemicals used. Not sure what I'm going to do but I'm not happy with them. The ones ive always bought before never had any of these issues and also the nipple on the tops has extra plastic attached and its sharp. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...5fa6531966.jpg


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I’ve been using RB hides for a few years and every one is warped. The slickness came off with soap, bleach, and very hot water. I didn’t notice any smell.

I even just recently bought the full range of sizes for future animals. I haven’t inspected them, but I expect no difference.

Disappointing for sure :(

I bought little plastic storage boxes, the same size as RBI hides, and melted entrances into the with a soldering iron.
Sturdier material. No shipping required.
Just a suggestionhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...975d7950aa.jpg
Painted a stone color just for fun.


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Originally Posted by Reinz

I’ve been using RB hides for a few years and every one is warped. The slickness came off with soap, bleach, and very hot water. I didn’t notice any smell.

I even just recently bought the full range of sizes for future animals. I haven’t inspected them, but I expect no difference.

Disappointing for sure :(

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Reins why do my other ones from 2016/2017 have Vivarium Electronics inscripted on the insides? Also my old ones are more Squared and heavy and these sides Tepee inward and are sharp and thin? I'll take a pic and show you


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First 3 are the new Cheapo ones. Youll see how thin and sharp the door edges and the shape of how they slant IN as the go highter.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...41c7068335.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...68185ef8d4.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...dbbdd2e755.jpg

These ones are from a year ago or before. Smooth plastic, squared and not bending. See the engraving on the inside.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...f39a4f427f.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...a83148380c.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...90ccee62e9.jpg


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Vivarium Electronics is RBI but sounds like their manufacturer in China is messing up the forming process. Not sure if Pangea is using the same factory as RBI but might want to give them a try as they are the same structure but might just now be resold by pangea so might not work.

The slickness is a non stick lubricant used in the injection molding process and the warping is due to removing the product from the form too quick and not letting the structure align properly. This is 100& due to the factory that RBI is outsourcing them from. You can report this to them if you want.

i've never seen an RBI so poorly made but mine are a bit older. this has to be a fluke...right?

i've returned some janky hides from RBI and got free replacements no-problem after providing a photo to the cs rep. reach out to them if you're truly unsatisfied.

Not sure who they are made by, but I have some old hides that look just like that, but they are "textured" and made FAR better then the newer/slick ones (I bought a few of those as well).

I wish I could still find those textured ones, look way better, too !!

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Originally Posted by zina10

Not sure who they are made by, but I have some old hides that look just like that, but they are "textured" and made FAR better then the newer/slick ones (I bought a few of those as well).

I wish I could still find those textured ones, look way better, too !!

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Man the textured ones sound way better! I just ordered medium hides from them and I'm not digging how slick and flimsy they are. Mine arrived with a little bit of warp, just enough to be crooked SIGH

I ordered mine from bean farm. They are bigger, textured, and the door is in front than in the size. To me they look better, no,warping, and thicker material.

I also use bean farm hides, been happy with them so far.

Mine are textured, but have the opening on the side (which I prefer)

No idea if anyone makes them anymore, have had them forever and like them SO MUCH MORE then the "new" slick ones that seem cheaply made...

Just like Reinz said, mine got unslicked after washing them. They do warp but they dont smell like anything. And as a side note, the jumbo hides are different than the smaller ones. They are a textured plastic on the outside and smooth on the inside. Other than having the warping issue, i have never had a problem with them.

This is crazy how inconsistent these are with everybody. I just checked my 9 new ones still in the plastic. Every size from small to Jumbo. They say V....E..
made jn china. All have a minor warp compared to my older ones. My Jumbos are not textured.

They maybe changing sources or the manufacturer is changing something in the manufacturing process like SDA said.

Also, keep in mind that these are probably stacked high within one another in big boxes stuffed in a shipping container. That’s a lot of weight that can give a “memory set” of warping during the slow boat from China. Which can mean varying degrees of warping depending upon where they sat inside the stack. For example, one pulled from the middle may have less warping than the bottom ones? I don’t know, just guessing.

This is how my old ones look. They are over 10 years old. No warping. Well made and sturdy and far more attractive then those cheap looking slick ones I've gotten recently...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...9e14462827.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...456f4397ab.jpg


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Originally Posted by Reinz

They maybe changing sources or the manufacturer is changing something in the manufacturing process like SDA said.
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I will tell you EXACTLYwhat they did, I make stamping dies and plastic injection molds for a living. These hide boxes are created via a plastic injection mold. As millions of parts are created and the die requires polishing several times, the mold wears out and requires a new cavity and core (which are the male and female halves of the die that create the part). The die was worn out and they remachined these halves with a closer tolerance in order to save plastic costs and prolong the life of the die.....welcome to the world of cheap, chinese mold making.

This is a section view of an injection mold

http://i66.tinypic.com/108bwbc.gif

The little circular bits of plastic people are talking about are "flash" or leftover material that flows out of the gate ( they direct area where plastic flows out to create the part. Crappy tolerances and poor die building creates this.

I couldn't tell you how many Chinese molds I have worked on over the years and the build quality is amazingly poor. Tolerances and quality go out the window in order to save money. If I had the time I would make my own molds and produce hides that I guarantee would last a lifetime.

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Originally Posted by Sunnieskys

I ordered mine from bean farm. They are bigger, textured, and the door is in front than in the size. To me they look better, no,warping, and thicker material.

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The thing with the offset doors is it gives the snake more of a feeling of security as the door isnt right there. They can go inside and to the side and feel like they are in a completely closed box.

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Originally Posted by zina10

This is how my old ones look. They are over 10 years old. No warping. Well made and sturdy and far more attractive then those cheap looking slick ones I've gotten recently...https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...9e14462827.jpghttps://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...456f4397ab.jpg


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My jumbo hides look like that but the bottom lip doesnt have a ridge on it like those do. They are just flat and smooth.

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Originally Posted by KevinK

I will tell you EXACTLYwhat they did, I make stamping dies and plastic injection molds for a living. These hide boxes are created via a plastic injection mold. As millions of parts are created and the die requires polishing several times, the mold wears out and requires a new cavity and core (which are the male and female halves of the die that create the part). The die was worn out and they remachined these halves with a closer tolerance in order to save plastic costs and prolong the life of the die.....welcome to the world of cheap, chinese mold making.

This is a section view of an injection mold

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/108bwbc.gif

The little circular bits of plastic people are talking about are "flash" or leftover material that flows out of the gate ( they direct area where plastic flows out to create the part. Crappy tolerances and poor die building creates this.

I couldn't tell you how many Chinese molds I have worked on over the years and the build quality is amazingly poor. Tolerances and quality go out the window in order to save money. If I had the time I would make my own molds and produce hides that I guarantee would last a lifetime.

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Weird part is mine dont have any flashing on them. I think Calm got ones made by drunk chinese on a friday at 4:50 PM :P

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Originally Posted by KevinK

I will tell you EXACTLYwhat they did, I make stamping dies and plastic injection molds for a living. These hide boxes are created via a plastic injection mold. As millions of parts are created and the die requires polishing several times, the mold wears out and requires a new cavity and core (which are the male and female halves of the die that create the part). The die was worn out and they remachined these halves with a closer tolerance in order to save plastic costs and prolong the life of the die.....welcome to the world of cheap, chinese mold making.

This is a section view of an injection mold

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/108bwbc.gif

The little circular bits of plastic people are talking about are "flash" or leftover material that flows out of the gate ( they direct area where plastic flows out to create the part. Crappy tolerances and poor die building creates this.

I couldn't tell you how many Chinese molds I have worked on over the years and the build quality is amazingly poor. Tolerances and quality go out the window in order to save money. If I had the time I would make my own molds and produce hides that I guarantee would last a lifetime.

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Makes sense to me Kevin!

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Weird part is mine dont have any flashing on them. I think Calm got ones made by drunk chinese on a friday at 4:50 PM :P

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That same drunk made my first set of hides! :mad:

Wow thank everybody. Im really glad everyone responded. Sometimes Im afraid Im getting so OCD that my thoughts aren't worth a reply hahahaha. Every comment made sense and I believe RBI is going through different Chinese manufacturers or the same manufacturer was just having issues.. Bottom line on the RBI site it talks about the "New improved" injection mold hides and they are not Improved at all. The same cost but they weigh much less on the scale. Its a shame this happens in ALL business's. Im going to call today and see if there is any way to get a couple older ones. (i doubt thats possible). Id rather Pay More for older ones than get junk for the same price. Im not sure why companies dont understand this. I always offer 2 ways to do a driveway for people. The Right Way and the Cheap way.. Wish there were product choices as id always spend more to get quality.
These New Hides remind me of the New Cheap Aluminum Ford Truck Beds hahahahahahaha.



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Originally Posted by zina10

This is how my old ones look. They are over 10 years old. No warping. Well made and sturdy and far more attractive then those cheap looking slick ones I've gotten recently...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...9e14462827.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...456f4397ab.jpg


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Those look Awesome Lucy!!! See why cant we have that choice to spend more for quality?


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by SDA

Vivarium Electronics is RBI but sounds like their manufacturer in China is messing up the forming process. Not sure if Pangea is using the same factory as RBI but might want to give them a try as they are the same structure but might just now be resold by pangea so might not work.

The slickness is a non stick lubricant used in the injection molding process and the warping is due to removing the product from the form too quick and not letting the structure align properly. This is 100& due to the factory that RBI is outsourcing them from. You can report this to them if you want.

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Got the stickiness off. It was like they sprayed PAM on them like you said.
I see Pangea has some on Amazon. Im thinking that they are the same. For whatever reason some are Stamped VE & some aren't. Maybe because some are meant for other distributers to sell ? Who knows. Anyways they have chinsed out on them. They're flimsy, badly molded & light as a feather. Time to look around and try something else.
I'll call today & return them depending on their Policy. Its not worth me loosing $7.99 shipping plus my cost shipping them back. If thats the case I just wont buy from them anymore.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Just like Reinz said, mine got unslicked after washing them. They do warp but they dont smell like anything. And as a side note, the jumbo hides are different than the smaller ones. They are a textured plastic on the outside and smooth on the inside. Other than having the warping issue, i have never had a problem with them.

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Got the sticky off with a hard scrub and diah soap.
These are all inconsistent it seams.. Also like Reinz said my new Jumbos are smooth and thin just like these new Larges. My old Jumbos are heavy with great edges. Everything I have from May 2017 and before is well made..


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Anyone familiar with this distributor? Its in Pakistan, these hides look Square like RBI used to be.. Square meaning strait up and down not the New wide on bottom tapering in towards the top.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...b1d49f3e39.jpg


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Originally Posted by CALM Pythons

Anyone familiar with this distributor? Its in Pakistan, these hides look Square like RBI used to be.. Square meaning strait up and down not the New wide on bottom tapering in towards the top.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...b1d49f3e39.jpg


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Order them and let us know if they suck lol.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Order them and let us know if they suck lol.

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Thats what I'll do. Their FB has great info also. Looks like real Herp Products and found Zoo people commenting with products they bought etc...
Heres a link. I'll order a couple and give a review. Cool colored Snake Hooks, Tongs and all.
http://www.petscrafts.com


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Haha i clicked the link and firs thing i saw was the cat pic and i thought, 'wtf they sell FT cats!!??'. Then i read 'Cat Supplies' LOL.

So either drunk arabs or drunk chinese making your hides. Next thing you know, Nike is going to start selling hide boxes for snakes from manufacturing in South America lol. Ok thats a bad joke...sorry :p

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Originally Posted by CALM Pythons

Its a shame this happens in ALL business's.

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This is very true. A lot of people blame these problems specifically on Chinese manufacturing, forgetting that the device they're commenting on was most likely built in China too. It happens in all areas of manufacture.

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Originally Posted by KevinK

I will tell you EXACTLY

I couldn't tell you how many Chinese molds I have worked on over the years and the build quality is amazingly poor. Tolerances and quality go out the window in order to save money. If I had the time I would make my own molds and produce hides that I guarantee would last a lifetime.

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Well I volunteer you to start the New Biz Kevin.
K&K Reptile [emoji12][emoji216][emoji216][emoji216]


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Haha i clicked the link and firs thing i saw was the cat pic and i thought, 'wtf they sell FT cats!!??'. Then i read 'Cat Supplies' LOL.

So either drunk arabs or drunk chinese making your hides. Next thing you know, Nike is going to start selling hide boxes for snakes from manufacturing in South America lol. Ok thats a bad joke...sorry :p

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Hahahaha well I "CART'ed" a couple Hides but it wont take me to Checkout, I messaged them. Lets see what happens.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by CALM Pythons

Well I volunteer you to start the New Biz Kevin.
K&K Reptile [emoji12][emoji216][emoji216][emoji216]


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I would love to do it if I wasn't so busy with other projects! ....but a big factor is also cost. Despite being able to build a mold for next to nothing, I couldn't hit the prices that they charge for these things. That's why they build them in China lol. If I have 5,000 of them made for me, YOU guys would understand quality and purchase them, but the people on Ebay and Amazon just see a hide box and a pricetag so when RBI charges $7 for a large hide box, they would blow me out of the water as far as price goes and win that battle every time.

Another dirty little secret is that they are probably using the same mold for several different companies (which China can do because they don't follow patent restrictions or intellectual property rights)....try that in the states and you would be sued into oblivion.

Just looked at BigApple too.. They look like RBI hides but dimensions are a bit different so I sent them a message to ask.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by KevinK

I would love to do it if I wasn't so busy with other projects! ....but a big factor is also cost. Despite being able to build a mold for next to nothing, I couldn't hit the prices that they charge for these things. That's why they build them in China lol. If I have 5,000 of them made for me, YOU guys would understand quality and purchase them, but the people on Ebay and Amazon just see a hide box and a pricetag so when RBI charges $7 for a large hide box, they would blow me out of the water as far as price goes and win that battle every time.

Another dirty little secret is that they are probably using the same mold for several different companies (which China can do because they don't follow patent restrictions or intellectual property rights)....try that in the states and you would be sued into oblivion.

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The thing is the Reptile Community is relatively small compared to car buyers for example... You would be selling to all the FB group people, Forum People and Fauna BOI people... With that said depending on machine costs id have no idea the Long Hall out come for Profit margin..
My business is extremely expensive to buy equiptment, but you make a living continuing to work...once all is paid for only to start over with Payments again etc etc etc... Hahahaha


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Originally Posted by Valaryan

This is very true. A lot of people blame these problems specifically on Chinese manufacturing, forgetting that the device they're commenting on was most likely built in China too. It happens in all areas of manufacture.

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It depends on the nature of the business actually. China doesn't follow ISO or Six Sigma (US quality control standards) with any of their companies that I'm aware of. German companies, UK companies....they have quality control organizations that certify their manufacturing practices. In China, that's out of the question.

That's not to say you can't run into problems with manufacturing in other countries but I'll tell you for an absolute FACT that issues arise in Chinese manufacturing a HELL of a lot more. No safety standards either.

I have had dies built in China that were malfunctioning so they wanted them inspected and looked over in the states. We get them in, pop them open, and discover that the actual bolt heads are busted off on EVERY bolt. The culprit? Chinese steel that doesn't abide by any quality control standards whatsoever. Interesting fact: China doesn't like using their own steel to build bridges and skyscrapers.

Sometimes you can get away with shipping out your labor to China but it ALWAYS comes back to bite you eventually....I've seen it so many times in my career.

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Originally Posted by CALM Pythons

The thing is the Reptile Community is relatively small compared to car buyers for example... You would be selling to all the FB group people, Forum People and Fauna BOI people... With that said depending on machine costs id have no idea the Long Hall out come for Profit margin..
My business is extremely expensive to buy equiptment, but you make a living continuing to work...once all is paid for only to start over with Payments again etc etc etc... Hahahaha


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Like you said, with as small as the community is I would be very surprised if I was able to make up the cost of the steel alone for the mold build. Machining costs? I don't have to worry about, but the steel is the big question and molds use a LOT of it.

Well crap. I just ordered some RBI hides, after seeing this I have some concerns about the quality but I'll update you guys on them when they get here.

OK.. Got news from Bobby at RBI. These are NOT his hides. All his Hides are labeled and the injection mold (nipple) is on the inside not the top outside like the ones I bought "sold as RBI" from one of his distributor. He is going to follow up with them as they should NOT be listing them as RBI. He knows who the manufacturers is. I will be sending these back and getting 2 new ones from him directly. (Along with a free shirt on the house he said) [emoji1360][emoji1360]
I'll update when they come in.
Also Im done with anyone that's distributing someone else's product. You see how that works. I should have waited until they wer back in stock. But LLL should not be selling Knock Offs as someone else's quality product. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...8571aafba9.jpg


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Originally Posted by MD_Pythons

Well crap. I just ordered some RBI hides, after seeing this I have some concerns about the quality but I'll update you guys on them when they get here.

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See my recent post. Mine are Fakes being sold as RBI.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by zina10

This is how my old ones look. They are over 10 years old. No warping. Well made and sturdy and far more attractive then those cheap looking slick ones I've gotten recently...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...9e14462827.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...456f4397ab.jpg


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Would like to see these again as a Option. Maybe more expensive but worth the money!


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Ummmm.....not saying I'm the guy to do it but LLL could be in some serious trouble if word gets out that they were misleading people based on RBI hides (I know I've purchased a couple over the years).

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Originally Posted by KevinK

Ummmm.....not saying I'm the guy to do it but LLL could be in some serious trouble if word gets out that they were misleading people based on RBI hides (I know I've purchased a couple over the years).

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The LLL hides sold as RBI smell terrible. I put one in my girls enclosure for the night and just opened the door and the whole enclosure stinks like a chemical!! Not happy. Waiting for Pacific time to call. I want my money & shipping cost back.


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I would still like to find out about the one's from "Pets Crafts". They look the most like my old hides, actually even a bit better finished.

I just prefer the textured look, doesn't look so "plastic-y"

So LLL is selling those crappy hides as RBI ? wow..

There are a LOT of hides that have the same general look, just look on ebay. And yes, Chinese manufacturers make products for "re-labeling". Same product sold under different names. Quite common actually, happens with all kinds of products. You can buy the same exact product for a lot more money because of the "name" on it..

I have NO idea who my old hides were made by, but I wish I could still find them. Sturdy and attractive and held up forever already, without showing any wear on them.

Tried to check out on Pets Crafts, but yes, their cart doesn't work. To bad, those hides look awesome !!

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Originally Posted by zina10

I would still like to find out about the one's from "Pets Crafts". They look the most like my old hides, actually even a bit better finished.

I just prefer the textured look, doesn't look so "plastic-y"

So LLL is selling those crappy hides as RBI ? wow..

There are a LOT of hides that have the same general look, just look on ebay. And yes, Chinese manufacturers make products for "re-labeling". Same product sold under different names. Quite common actually, happens with all kinds of products. You can buy the same exact product for a lot more money because of the "name" on it..

I have NO idea who my old hides were made by, but I wish I could still find them. Sturdy and attractive and held up forever already, without showing any wear on them.

Tried to check out on Pets Crafts, but yes, their cart doesn't work. To bad, those hides look awesome !!

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I emailed them this morning to see what they say. Bobby at RBI new of Petcraft.. I dont know who made the Junk I got from LLL labeled as RBI but Ive never bought anything from them and only did because RBI was out last month.. I'll wait from now on.


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I hate their website. I can’t get pricing on ANYTHING on my iPad without signing up first. Which means MORE daily emails to my already 200 + I receive each day. :mad:

They just lost a potential impulse customer before they had him.

I think they only sell wholesale...(Petscraft)

Have to find out if they sell to anyone in the US, and then try to buy from them ;)

They seem to have nice products (also have a facebook page) But definitely wholesale only. Not sure if they have a customer in the US yet ?
They only started selling the hides in the Fall of 2017, so may not have a US customer yet, esp. since most people just buy the cheap ones off of ebay..

I can't tell if they are as textured as my old ones, but they don't appear as shiny as RBI and the cheap knock offs..

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Originally Posted by zina10

I think they only sell wholesale...(Petscraft)

Have to find out if they sell to anyone in the US, and then try to buy from them ;)

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Ok, that makes sense, but they are still losing business. Many wholesale sites post the retail price and then a list of dealers.

If the Petscraft minimum isn’t stupid, I have a business license/sales tax ID. I’ll take a look at their website a little later.


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