What exo terra terrarium would you suggest?

I have a 752g female bp who I'd like to get a new tank for. I know others would suggest tubs but I only have the one bp and don't plan on upgrading soon (if I did I'd switch to tub anyway) I don't have a hard time with a tank and have learned my ways around the cons with the help of some wonderful people here. I also prefer the look of them.

the exo terra terrariums caught my eye and I'd really like to get one but no idea which size for my girl. I was looking at the large ones but have no idea which. I know tall ones won't do much for a bp since they need floor space instead of height that won't be used much. But I'm stuck between a long and wide one. I've seen people do both successfully but Id like to know your opinions! 😊

It’s funny you say they dont need the height...my enchi Pastel loves her tree and climbs is every night, along with our banana she’s shy so it’s rare I️ can catch her with my phone but it’s really unique to ever BP imo all 4 of my BPs are so unique I️ know their personal preferable atmosphere and they are all different


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Do you have any pictures? I've never seen my bp climb unless something were off. She does however sleep with her head a little out of her hide cushioned by her body just so she can see what's going on and stuff...as soon as someone else besides me comes in the room she puts her head back in. It's amazing that they all have their own unique personalities! 😄

Climbing:
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...5dzo1_1280.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...5dzo1_1280.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...5dzo4_1280.jpg

And a video of mine using her ladder: https://youtu.be/HHTTkopPG_U

If you give them climbing opportunities, they will usually use them. Plus it gives them some exercise! Always a plus for an animal that's prone to being overfed in captivity lol.

If you're going for an adult enclosure I'd get one that's around 4 foot length. I think the exo-terras max out at 3 foot, unfortunately. There are PVC enclosures that get even larger than 4 feet, so that might be something worth looking into. They are also amazing with retaining humidity and heat, from other people's accounts.

Glad to see she's still digging the ladder idea.

My male uses his less these days as an adult, but still catch him up there sometimes.

I'd skip the exo terra and go with an AP pvc enclsoure. The exo-terras aren't that great at holding temps due to the all glass sides. I use them for planted terrariums (frogs and geckos) but those species don't require the higher warm side temps that BPs do. If you do decide to go with an exo terra, I would suggust the largest you can get (3'x2' footprint) and maybe the one that is 2' high. You would need to insulate the sides (maybe use pvc or insulation board) on the 3 sides excluding the front. You would need to use a heat pad and possibly a CHE to maintain good hot spot and ambient temps...Just don't place the CHE over glass, it would need to go over the screen and you would most likely need to purchase glass or plexiglass panels to cover the rest of the screen top to hold in humidity.

I would personally go with an Animal Plastics cage as I think it would end up costing you the same or less (considering the modifications you'd need to make on the exo). The PVC cages are also lighter and easier to move, which is a huge plus. I have the biggest exo (3'x2'x3') and it is a beast to move empty. I don't even want to think about having to move it fully planted.

Carolina Custom Cages recently started selling glass tanks that look similar to Exo Terra, and they make a 4' size. 48X18X24...

https://www.amazon.com/Carolina-Cust...a+custom+cages

I would imagine it's a big job to keep the temps right in here, but if you have your tricks it would make for a nice display.

They are the same cost and even more than animal plastic T8s or even T10s depending on the size so why not go pvc from the start? Those glass terrariums aren't cheap and you end up with too much work to keep them ideal for ball pythons.

I keep both of my BPs in 36x18x18 Exo-Terras. They are good enclosures, but like others said heat and humidity are an issue. I have no problem with temps (I just use CHEs on each), but humidity takes a lot of tweaking. Im in south Florida, so its not a huge issue, but it is an issue. If I had to start over I would put them in PVC like animal plastics, or more likely homemade PVC enclosures, but IMO they are pretty good enclosures.

For the money, if you haven't gotten enclosures yet animal plastics t10s are about the same price as a new exo-terra 36x18x18, and they are even a little bigger. Could be the way to go.

Good luck

I also want to stay glass tank. Doing a normal 20 long for now
till the baby BP grows up and do few experiments for heat and humidity. I will always stay glass tank because of where I plan to keep the BP. If I ever need to totally move the habitat I will do a custom build.

I will try to write out a quick thought on moving to a bigger glass tank.

One experiment I want to do is use different wattage bulbs for more or less btu's. Try red bulbs and CHE's to see any temp difference at the same watts. Effects on humidity also. Also placement of the heat lamp on the tank. Over the hot spot/side or more center. I think running on the smaller wattage/btu side will help with humidity and be more even temp. Better regulation and efficiency. 30 x 12 is 360 sq in so I am sure there is a formula for how many btu's are needed. Need to figure that. Then account for the UTH.

I would also like to try a RHE heating from the top? Replace a lamp and be cleaner looking. Not sure if that will even work at all? Not sure yet how there different from a UTH? More research needed.

Another test is size of the UTH. Of course bigger will be needed for a bigger tank. I guess big enough to cover the hot side of the tank? But that might be to big to be efficient. Want to look at that also.

Use a large or even really large water container for max surface area to evaporate water. A pool for the BP. Lol
At worse use a small humidifier on a large tank. But I hope really controlling my heat can help regulate that.

Going to try plexiglass or maybe a foil bubble wrap insulated heating product to seal the top. Some things there to experiment with.

I also will try to stay with a short 12" tall tank. And only so much width as possible. It just seems to me a taller tank will really make heating and humidity trouble.

I think geographical location and home temp and humidity play a role in designing the correct tank habitat. So not every ones is going to match.
So for me once I figure it all out I will be happy as will the family BP. :) I just want a nice clean looking tank to watch our BP.

Good luck OP and update please on what you buy and how you set it up!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ss laser

I also want to stay glass tank. Doing a normal 20 long for now
till the baby BP grows up and do few experiments for heat and humidity. I will always stay glass tank because of where I plan to keep the BP. If I ever need to totally move the habitat I will do a custom build.

I will try to write out a quick thought on moving to a bigger glass tank.

One experiment I want to do is use different wattage bulbs for more or less btu's. Try red bulbs and CHE's to see any temp difference at the same watts. Effects on humidity also. Also placement of the heat lamp on the tank. Over the hot spot/side or more center. I think running on the smaller wattage/btu side will help with humidity and be more even temp. Better regulation and efficiency. 30 x 12 is 360 sq in so I am sure there is a formula for how many btu's are needed. Need to figure that. Then account for the UTH.

I would also like to try a RHE heating from the top? Replace a lamp and be cleaner looking. Not sure if that will even work at all? Not sure yet how there different from a UTH? More research needed.

Another test is size of the UTH. Of course bigger will be needed for a bigger tank. I guess big enough to cover the hot side of the tank? But that might be to big to be efficient. Want to look at that also.

Use a large or even really large water container for max surface area to evaporate water. A pool for the BP. Lol
At worse use a small humidifier on a large tank. But I hope really controlling my heat can help regulate that.

Going to try plexiglass or maybe a foil bubble wrap insulated heating product to seal the top. Some things there to experiment with.

I also will try to stay with a short 12" tall tank. And only so much width as possible. It just seems to me a taller tank will really make heating and humidity trouble.

I think geographical location and home temp and humidity play a role in designing the correct tank habitat. So not every ones is going to match.
So for me once I figure it all out I will be happy as will the family BP. :) I just want a nice clean looking tank to watch our BP.

Good luck OP and update please on what you buy and how you set it up!

---

Been there and did all that. I can tell you that without a shadow of a doubt, if you are in North America and unless you live in south Florida, a PVC enclosure will be the best existing solution for a ball python until some better technology comes along. There is nothing you can do you compensate for the limitations of glass and the evaporating power of a CHE. You should never have a light source as a heating element for a ball python so a CHE is the best solution for a glass tank.

No need to figure anything out, enough of us have spent years coming to these same conclusions.

Glass tanks are the BEST for display purposes, so if you want to decorate it all fancy and look at it all the tine, then go for it. However, I wholeheartedly agree with everyone else, that I think you will be happier with a PVC snake enclosure, as the glass is more work to maintain the proper environment. If you don't mind a constant battle to keep humidity up, then Glass is fine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starscream

Climbing:
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...5dzo1_1280.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...5dzo1_1280.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...5dzo4_1280.jpg

And a video of mine using her ladder: https://youtu.be/HHTTkopPG_U

If you give them climbing opportunities, they will usually use them. Plus it gives them some exercise! Always a plus for an animal that's prone to being overfed in captivity lol.

If you're going for an adult enclosure I'd get one that's around 4 foot length. I think the exo-terras max out at 3 foot, unfortunately. There are PVC enclosures that get even larger than 4 feet, so that might be something worth looking into. They are also amazing with retaining humidity and heat, from other people's accounts.

---

One of mine is a big climber too. He will climb up anything. I love your ladders and stuff.

bTW, no matter what kind of material you get, GET A FRONT DOOR ENCLOSURE! If I knew what a battle it is with humidity, I would have bought a glass tank with a glass top, and doors on the front, so I could open the front to clean and feed, and wouldn't lose so much humidity through the top.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by artgecko

I'd skip the exo terra and go with an AP pvc enclsoure. The exo-terras aren't that great at holding temps due to the all glass sides. I use them for planted terrariums (frogs and geckos) but those species don't require the higher warm side temps that BPs do. If you do decide to go with an exo terra, I would suggust the largest you can get (3'x2' footprint) and maybe the one that is 2' high. You would need to insulate the sides (maybe use pvc or insulation board) on the 3 sides excluding the front. You would need to use a heat pad and possibly a CHE to maintain good hot spot and ambient temps...Just don't place the CHE over glass, it would need to go over the screen and you would most likely need to purchase glass or plexiglass panels to cover the rest of the screen top to hold in humidity.

I would personally go with an Animal Plastics cage as I think it would end up costing you the same or less (considering the modifications you'd need to make on the exo). The PVC cages are also lighter and easier to move, which is a huge plus. I have the biggest exo (3'x2'x3') and it is a beast to move empty. I don't even want to think about having to move it fully planted.

---

I started looking into Animal Plastics and they look really nice. I was thinking of switching for awhile but I have absolutely no experience with them so I'd need a lot of help haha. But it seems a lot better and I wouldn't need to worry about covering the sides or covering a screen top. Then I wouldn't know which one to get. I like the sliding doors a lot

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SDA

They are the same cost and even more than animal plastic T8s or even T10s depending on the size so why not go pvc from the start? Those glass terrariums aren't cheap and you end up with too much work to keep them ideal for ball pythons.

---

Im thinking about it now! They seem very nice and exactly the style I want but I have no clue how to set them up.. Like can I still use a heat pad? Is there a way I can put the probe to my thermostat inside and for my thermometers? Do you not use a lamp anymore and use something else? I'm clueless haha

Oh I am sure the PVC is better if so many say so. But I will make a nice glass tank work well enough for me and for a baby python I hope. The black or white PVC ones will look real bad in my living room FYI. And that's where the boss says it goes for now.

So would anyone mind PM'ing me with what UTH watts/size was best on a 20 long. When I say lamp I thought a red bulb was fine? Also what Watt CHE was best between 50w to 100W? How did the percentage of humidity change with each 25 watt jump? I will try some engineering/science and good old redneck ability to one up the old glass tank. If I fail it will not be the first time. But I enjoy that type of stuff. And I learn new stuff! Extra part of the hobby to keep it interesting for me. And I can always throw in the towel and go PVC later for a larger habitat. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Plasma

Im thinking about it now! They seem very nice and exactly the style I want but I have no clue how to set them up.. Like can I still use a heat pad? Is there a way I can put the probe to my thermostat inside and for my thermometers? Do you not use a lamp anymore and use something else? I'm clueless haha

---

I highly recommend the T-10 enclosure from animal plastics (or if you have the cash, a T11). The foot print (48" x 24") is, in my opinion, ideal for an adult ball python. As for height, it is not strict necessary, but it is helpful for two reasons: (1) If your snake is a climber, this gives you some room to play around with branches or other climbable furniture. (2) The height gives you more room to manipulative the snake and enclosure. I can't tell you how annoying I find it to try and clean out my one exo-terra low (24" x 18" x 12") for one of my geckos. There is so little room. A 24" deep enclosure further exaggerates this problem. It also gives you more room to decorate and set up a nice looking enclosure. Some people report shelves (typically used with carpet pythons) to be a nice addition.

You can use a UTH heat pad with animal plastics enclosures, but you may have to increase the temperature set point as the enclosures are usually thicker and the thermal conductivity of glass is higher. Usually people put the probe between the UTH and the cage, so it is underneath and then tailor it from there.

If you are game for it, you can also use something called a radiant heat panel. They are most expensive up front, but last forever and do a great job. I recommend Pro Products heat panels. You simply call in, a man named Bob will answer and walk your through the ordering process. Usually he'll ask you what enclosure and set up you have, then recommend a panel size. In this case, you can just dangle the probe on the back wall. There are several posts across the forums on how to set these up.

Generally, people don't recommend heat lamps, because while they heat well, they kill humidity. Radiant heat panels and UTH heal pads preserve it better. If you use a radiant heat panel, this the only heating element you will need. If you use a UTH, depending on your house ambient temperature, you can also use it exclusively. If your house if lower than ~75 F, then supplemental heat should be used in addition to the UTH. Generally, you can gauge how your snake is feeling based on how often he hugs his warm spot vs travels his enclosure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ss laser

Oh I am sure the PVC is better if so many say so. But I will make a nice glass tank work well enough for me and for a baby python I hope. The black or white PVC ones will look real bad in my living room FYI. And that's where the boss says it goes for now.

So would anyone mind PM'ing me with what UTH watts/size was best on a 20 long. When I say lamp I thought a red bulb was fine? Also what Watt CHE was best between 50w to 100W? How did the percentage of humidity change with each 25 watt jump? I will try some engineering/science and good old redneck ability to one up the old glass tank. If I fail it will not be the first time. But I enjoy that type of stuff. And I learn new stuff! Extra part of the hobby to keep it interesting for me. And I can always throw in the towel and go PVC later for a larger habitat. :)

---

I actually think black plastic enclosures look nicer than glass enclosures, unless you have a well planted bio-active setup, then I might tend to agree. If you want a "furniture grade" plastic enclosure then several examples do exist. I don't like glass for ball pythons for several reasons: (1) the transparency of the enclosure seem to make snakes feel less secure than being surrounded on most sides by an opaque or translucent material. I was astonished to see how unhappy my kingsnake was in a 36" exo-terra. However, you can black out the sides. (2) You almost always have to modify the roof / top, which agitates me and almost always looks aesthetically poor. I have some custom tops on a few of my exo-terras (for frogs and geckos), but in hindsight, the shenanigans I had to do to modify them were not worth it. (3) Glass does not insulate as well as plastic given the aforementioned thermal conductivity. Plastic holds heat roughly 2-3x as well as glass. (4) I am of the opinion that 4' x 2' x 12-24" is the ideal size for adult ball pythons. A glass enclosure of this size is extremely heavy and far less robust than a plastic enclosure. Moving them would be a nightmare.

Regarding a UTH for a 20 long, the wattage is unlikely to matter as any commercial heat pad will give you a 88-93 F hot spot through glass and the size can be anything large enough that allows snake can coil itself on top of it. I have used reptile basics 6" x 11" pads for snakes up to maybe 800-1000g, as they get larger I might go for 11" x 11" or 11" x 17".

I would discourage the use of a CHE or heat bulb (especially as we near winter) unless your house ambient temperatures are quite low. I doubt the wattage of a CHE or heat bulb will scale linearly or otherwise with humidity drop. I used to use CHEs / heat bulbs of various wattages and none seemed to drop the humidity a reliable or predictable amount.

Ok fantastic post! Ok we're to start. I have to use a CHE or red heat bulb. My house in the winter is 68. I am cheap and like a blanket in the winter. Lol
I am starting to think the "cheap" and "easier" pet a BP is not. Might need to have a terrible talk with my daughter. Snake as a pet might not be for us. The more I learn and concerns I have. All the breeders at the expo/show's makes it sound easy.

Also a little more on the glass tank for us. This was going on the bar we do not use. So nice to show the BP from both sides. I know the glass tank can look cluttered. But I had some ideas for that. I also figured the snake will adapt to its living arrangement. And will have it's hides to escape to. Now I don't think so hearing there very shy. Just like my daughter. Lol. I will re-read your post tomorrow and do more research and cost analysis.
Glad I didn't just buy a BP when my daughter fell in love with them. I have always liked snakes also. Still catch gardners in the summer in my yard/driveway. Even caught our first ring neck snake this summer. Ok enough rambling from me.
thank you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ss laser

Ok fantastic post! Ok we're to start. I have to use a CHE or red heat bulb. My house in the winter is 68. I am cheap and like a blanket in the winter. Lol
I am starting to think the "cheap" and "easier" pet a BP is not. Might need to have a terrible talk with my daughter. Snake as a pet might not be for us. The more I learn and concerns I have. All the breeders at the expo/show's makes it sound easy.

---

Cheap and easy are all relative terms. Have you considered another snake species or is your daughter set on a BP? Maybe a colubrid of some sort would be better?

I recently went thru the exact same exercise of working with my daughter on fulfilling her wish of snake ownership. We thought a BP was the way to go since it's the go-to "beginner" snake, and they're just so beautiful. But after months of research, we settled on something completely different.

We wanted more a display animal so we could take advantage of a large glass tank. We wanted a snake with a more outgoing personality, which can be hit & miss with beeps. And we were turned off by the more specific and complex husbandry needs of a beep. We ended up going with a Russian Rat. While (arguably) not as beautiful as a ball, he fit the more important traits we were looking for in a pet.

So you've got options, just saying!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hilabeans

Cheap and easy are all relative terms. Have you considered another snake species or is your daughter set on a BP? Maybe a colubrid of some sort would be better?

I recently went thru the exact same exercise of working with my daughter on fulfilling her wish of snake ownership. We thought a BP was the way to go since it's the go-to "beginner" snake, and they're just so beautiful. But after months of research, we settled on something completely different.

We wanted more a display animal so we could take advantage of a large glass tank. We wanted a snake with a more outgoing personality, which can be hit & miss with beeps. And we were turned off by the more specific and complex husbandry needs of a beep. We ended up going with a Russian Rat. While (arguably) not as beautiful as a ball, he fit the more important traits we were looking for in a pet.

So you've got options, just saying!

---

Thanks for the new direction to look into. Do you have any links for me on the husbandry and care of a Russian rat? Are there temperament generally nice to handle? I would think so from your recommendation. Thanks again.

As far as the animal plastic cages the price gets way past a 20 long glass tank fast. If I went with T-10 as recommended. I could see 300 easy shipped. Really spoiled by free shipping from amazon. I am going to check with reptiletubs.com as I seen he had pvc cages at the reptile expo last weekend. But I did not check prices as my original plan was a glass tank. He is close enough I could pick it up. Or at the next show.

Also I do get that T-10 might be the only cage needed. But just a divider and heat strip from AP puts it with shipping about $300. And that's no thermostat or thermometer with humidity. And I get all the benefits of the T-10 that goes along with it. But just not sold on the style, look, price, and placement issues for
me. Oh for those looking for a T-10 there is a sale there. And a good price on quick ship page for a T-10 at 150.
Sorry to hi jack this thread! But thanks all for the info and help! Take care.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ss laser

Thanks for the new direction to look into. Do you have any links for me on the husbandry and care of a Russian rat? Are there temperament generally nice to handle? I would think so from your recommendation. Thanks again.

---

I hate to derail anymore from Plasma's thread, so I'll just say to search this forum and also kingsnake forum. In the General Colubrid section there are a number of very recent threads on Russian Rats from a few members here. And some cool youtube videos, especially of Rainbowshark's snake Levi. He's awesome.

But that's just one type of colubrid. There may be several different kinds that fit your need.

Quick search on the Russian rat snakes said adults need a very large cage? But I will research rats and corns more now. Even though my daughter wanted a big snake. Lol. We will check them out at the next expo/show next month. Thanks again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ss laser

Thanks for the new direction to look into. Do you have any links for me on the husbandry and care of a Russian rat? Are there temperament generally nice to handle? I would think so from your recommendation.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ss laser

Quick search on the Russian rat snakes said adults need a very large cage? But I will research rats and corns more now. Even though my daughter wanted a big snake. Lol. We will check them out at the next expo/show next month. Thanks again.

---

I do not personally have russian rat snakes, but I do have experience with rat snakes in general. I hate to generalize all colubrids, but they do tend to have a somewhat similar demeanor across the species. They generally have similar habitat requirements, personalities, and feeding response. Most colubrids can be kept at room temperatures (70 - 75 F but up to about 80 F usually won't hurt anything) with a hot spot around 85 - 87 F. They are usually fairly docile outside their enclosures with a strong feeding response. If you are going to get bitten, 95% of the time it is going to center around feeding. They tend to be relatively bold and not shy. My kingsnakes seldom use hides when they are provided, but they do seem to like burrowing on occasion. Rat snakes tend to fall pretty nicely into this description. Also, in most cases, colubrids have pretty flexible humidity requirements and are able to shed nicely at lower humidity levels.

The one thing that does differ widely among colubrids is size. Russian rat snakes and rat snakes in general tend to be pretty large. They range between 5 - 8 feet, with russian rat snakes averaging around 6 -7 feet. They also really should have large caging and a 20 gallon tank will be insufficient to house an adult of almost any rat snake species that comes to mind.

That said, you could try a kingsnake. They are, in my opinion, the one of the best beginner species available. Specifically, the california kingsnake would have my vote. They don't have high heat or humidity requirements, they eat extremely well, are reasonably docile, and very forgiving on mistakes. They are as bulletproof as one can get while still obtaining a decent size (3 - 5 ft). However, an adult would still need at least a 40 gallon breeder tank (36" x 18") if you wanted a glass enclosure. A young snake would be fine in your 20 gallon space-wise. California kingsnakes are also similar in appearance to russian rat snake if you get the right locality. :)

I️ suppose I️ just have a routine going with my glass enclosures for all my snakes, everything is perfect from hot to cool and humidity with the use of a damp towel and sprits of water....yes I️ live in central Florida lol so it helps [emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thank you very much. Will look at all the colubrids available at next months show with my daughter. She still wants a BP after our little talk today. She has held a few larger rat snakes, milk, and king I think. But she was not as excited like with a "large" BP. So we will just keep looking and learning. Thanks again everyone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aerries

I️ suppose I️ just have a routine going with my glass enclosures for all my snakes, everything is perfect from hot to cool and humidity with the use of a damp towel and sprits of water....yes I️ live in central Florida lol so it helps [emoji23]

---

Out with you Floridian and your ideal climate for reptiles! :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SDA

Out with you Floridian and your ideal climate for reptiles! :P

---

Lol central Florida is actually dryer then south, I still battle humidity but really nothing insane it takes 2-4 days depending the weather for the humidity to drop. “Winters” are different lmao granted it can get cold but nothing like the north still the room stays above 80 ambient


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk