What exo terra terrarium would you suggest?

[Ss laser]

I also want to stay glass tank. Doing a normal 20 long for now
till the baby BP grows up and do few experiments for heat and humidity. I will always stay glass tank because of where I plan to keep the BP. If I ever need to totally move the habitat I will do a custom build.

I will try to write out a quick thought on moving to a bigger glass tank.

One experiment I want to do is use different wattage bulbs for more or less btu's. Try red bulbs and CHE's to see any temp difference at the same watts. Effects on humidity also. Also placement of the heat lamp on the tank. Over the hot spot/side or more center. I think running on the smaller wattage/btu side will help with humidity and be more even temp. Better regulation and efficiency. 30 x 12 is 360 sq in so I am sure there is a formula for how many btu's are needed. Need to figure that. Then account for the UTH.

I would also like to try a RHE heating from the top? Replace a lamp and be cleaner looking. Not sure if that will even work at all? Not sure yet how there different from a UTH? More research needed.

Another test is size of the UTH. Of course bigger will be needed for a bigger tank. I guess big enough to cover the hot side of the tank? But that might be to big to be efficient. Want to look at that also.

Use a large or even really large water container for max surface area to evaporate water. A pool for the BP. Lol
At worse use a small humidifier on a large tank. But I hope really controlling my heat can help regulate that.

Going to try plexiglass or maybe a foil bubble wrap insulated heating product to seal the top. Some things there to experiment with.

I also will try to stay with a short 12" tall tank. And only so much width as possible. It just seems to me a taller tank will really make heating and humidity trouble.

I think geographical location and home temp and humidity play a role in designing the correct tank habitat. So not every ones is going to match.
So for me once I figure it all out I will be happy as will the family BP. I just want a nice clean looking tank to watch our BP.

Good luck OP and update please on what you buy and how you set it up!

[SDA]

I also want to stay glass tank. Doing a normal 20 long for now
till the baby BP grows up and do few experiments for heat and humidity. I will always stay glass tank because of where I plan to keep the BP. If I ever need to totally move the habitat I will do a custom build.

I will try to write out a quick thought on moving to a bigger glass tank.

One experiment I want to do is use different wattage bulbs for more or less btu's. Try red bulbs and CHE's to see any temp difference at the same watts. Effects on humidity also. Also placement of the heat lamp on the tank. Over the hot spot/side or more center. I think running on the smaller wattage/btu side will help with humidity and be more even temp. Better regulation and efficiency. 30 x 12 is 360 sq in so I am sure there is a formula for how many btu's are needed. Need to figure that. Then account for the UTH.

I would also like to try a RHE heating from the top? Replace a lamp and be cleaner looking. Not sure if that will even work at all? Not sure yet how there different from a UTH? More research needed.

Another test is size of the UTH. Of course bigger will be needed for a bigger tank. I guess big enough to cover the hot side of the tank? But that might be to big to be efficient. Want to look at that also.

Use a large or even really large water container for max surface area to evaporate water. A pool for the BP. Lol
At worse use a small humidifier on a large tank. But I hope really controlling my heat can help regulate that.

Going to try plexiglass or maybe a foil bubble wrap insulated heating product to seal the top. Some things there to experiment with.

I also will try to stay with a short 12" tall tank. And only so much width as possible. It just seems to me a taller tank will really make heating and humidity trouble.

I think geographical location and home temp and humidity play a role in designing the correct tank habitat. So not every ones is going to match.
So for me once I figure it all out I will be happy as will the family BP. I just want a nice clean looking tank to watch our BP.

Good luck OP and update please on what you buy and how you set it up!

Been there and did all that. I can tell you that without a shadow of a doubt, if you are in North America and unless you live in south Florida, a PVC enclosure will be the best existing solution for a ball python until some better technology comes along. There is nothing you can do you compensate for the limitations of glass and the evaporating power of a CHE. You should never have a light source as a heating element for a ball python so a CHE is the best solution for a glass tank.

No need to figure anything out, enough of us have spent years coming to these same conclusions.

[Ss laser]

Oh I am sure the PVC is better if so many say so. But I will make a nice glass tank work well enough for me and for a baby python I hope. The black or white PVC ones will look real bad in my living room FYI. And that's where the boss says it goes for now.

So would anyone mind PM'ing me with what UTH watts/size was best on a 20 long. When I say lamp I thought a red bulb was fine? Also what Watt CHE was best between 50w to 100W? How did the percentage of humidity change with each 25 watt jump? I will try some engineering/science and good old redneck ability to one up the old glass tank. If I fail it will not be the first time. But I enjoy that type of stuff. And I learn new stuff! Extra part of the hobby to keep it interesting for me. And I can always throw in the towel and go PVC later for a larger habitat.

[Regius_049]

Im thinking about it now! They seem very nice and exactly the style I want but I have no clue how to set them up.. Like can I still use a heat pad? Is there a way I can put the probe to my thermostat inside and for my thermometers? Do you not use a lamp anymore and use something else? I'm clueless haha

I highly recommend the T-10 enclosure from animal plastics (or if you have the cash, a T11). The foot print (48" x 24") is, in my opinion, ideal for an adult ball python. As for height, it is not strict necessary, but it is helpful for two reasons: (1) If your snake is a climber, this gives you some room to play around with branches or other climbable furniture. (2) The height gives you more room to manipulative the snake and enclosure. I can't tell you how annoying I find it to try and clean out my one exo-terra low (24" x 18" x 12") for one of my geckos. There is so little room. A 24" deep enclosure further exaggerates this problem. It also gives you more room to decorate and set up a nice looking enclosure. Some people report shelves (typically used with carpet pythons) to be a nice addition.

You can use a UTH heat pad with animal plastics enclosures, but you may have to increase the temperature set point as the enclosures are usually thicker and the thermal conductivity of glass is higher. Usually people put the probe between the UTH and the cage, so it is underneath and then tailor it from there.

If you are game for it, you can also use something called a radiant heat panel. They are most expensive up front, but last forever and do a great job. I recommend Pro Products heat panels. You simply call in, a man named Bob will answer and walk your through the ordering process. Usually he'll ask you what enclosure and set up you have, then recommend a panel size. In this case, you can just dangle the probe on the back wall. There are several posts across the forums on how to set these up.

Generally, people don't recommend heat lamps, because while they heat well, they kill humidity. Radiant heat panels and UTH heal pads preserve it better. If you use a radiant heat panel, this the only heating element you will need. If you use a UTH, depending on your house ambient temperature, you can also use it exclusively. If your house if lower than ~75 F, then supplemental heat should be used in addition to the UTH. Generally, you can gauge how your snake is feeling based on how often he hugs his warm spot vs travels his enclosure.

Oh I am sure the PVC is better if so many say so. But I will make a nice glass tank work well enough for me and for a baby python I hope. The black or white PVC ones will look real bad in my living room FYI. And that's where the boss says it goes for now.

So would anyone mind PM'ing me with what UTH watts/size was best on a 20 long. When I say lamp I thought a red bulb was fine? Also what Watt CHE was best between 50w to 100W? How did the percentage of humidity change with each 25 watt jump? I will try some engineering/science and good old redneck ability to one up the old glass tank. If I fail it will not be the first time. But I enjoy that type of stuff. And I learn new stuff! Extra part of the hobby to keep it interesting for me. And I can always throw in the towel and go PVC later for a larger habitat.

I actually think black plastic enclosures look nicer than glass enclosures, unless you have a well planted bio-active setup, then I might tend to agree. If you want a "furniture grade" plastic enclosure then several examples do exist. I don't like glass for ball pythons for several reasons: (1) the transparency of the enclosure seem to make snakes feel less secure than being surrounded on most sides by an opaque or translucent material. I was astonished to see how unhappy my kingsnake was in a 36" exo-terra. However, you can black out the sides. (2) You almost always have to modify the roof / top, which agitates me and almost always looks aesthetically poor. I have some custom tops on a few of my exo-terras (for frogs and geckos), but in hindsight, the shenanigans I had to do to modify them were not worth it. (3) Glass does not insulate as well as plastic given the aforementioned thermal conductivity. Plastic holds heat roughly 2-3x as well as glass. (4) I am of the opinion that 4' x 2' x 12-24" is the ideal size for adult ball pythons. A glass enclosure of this size is extremely heavy and far less robust than a plastic enclosure. Moving them would be a nightmare.

Regarding a UTH for a 20 long, the wattage is unlikely to matter as any commercial heat pad will give you a 88-93 F hot spot through glass and the size can be anything large enough that allows snake can coil itself on top of it. I have used reptile basics 6" x 11" pads for snakes up to maybe 800-1000g, as they get larger I might go for 11" x 11" or 11" x 17".

I would discourage the use of a CHE or heat bulb (especially as we near winter) unless your house ambient temperatures are quite low. I doubt the wattage of a CHE or heat bulb will scale linearly or otherwise with humidity drop. I used to use CHEs / heat bulbs of various wattages and none seemed to drop the humidity a reliable or predictable amount.

[Ss laser]

Ok fantastic post! Ok we're to start. I have to use a CHE or red heat bulb. My house in the winter is 68. I am cheap and like a blanket in the winter. Lol
I am starting to think the "cheap" and "easier" pet a BP is not. Might need to have a terrible talk with my daughter. Snake as a pet might not be for us. The more I learn and concerns I have. All the breeders at the expo/show's makes it sound easy.

Also a little more on the glass tank for us. This was going on the bar we do not use. So nice to show the BP from both sides. I know the glass tank can look cluttered. But I had some ideas for that. I also figured the snake will adapt to its living arrangement. And will have it's hides to escape to. Now I don't think so hearing there very shy. Just like my daughter. Lol. I will re-read your post tomorrow and do more research and cost analysis.
Glad I didn't just buy a BP when my daughter fell in love with them. I have always liked snakes also. Still catch gardners in the summer in my yard/driveway. Even caught our first ring neck snake this summer. Ok enough rambling from me.
thank you.

[hilabeans]

Ok fantastic post! Ok we're to start. I have to use a CHE or red heat bulb. My house in the winter is 68. I am cheap and like a blanket in the winter. Lol
I am starting to think the "cheap" and "easier" pet a BP is not. Might need to have a terrible talk with my daughter. Snake as a pet might not be for us. The more I learn and concerns I have. All the breeders at the expo/show's makes it sound easy.

Cheap and easy are all relative terms. Have you considered another snake species or is your daughter set on a BP? Maybe a colubrid of some sort would be better?

I recently went thru the exact same exercise of working with my daughter on fulfilling her wish of snake ownership. We thought a BP was the way to go since it's the go-to "beginner" snake, and they're just so beautiful. But after months of research, we settled on something completely different.

We wanted more a display animal so we could take advantage of a large glass tank. We wanted a snake with a more outgoing personality, which can be hit & miss with beeps. And we were turned off by the more specific and complex husbandry needs of a beep. We ended up going with a Russian Rat. While (arguably) not as beautiful as a ball, he fit the more important traits we were looking for in a pet.

So you've got options, just saying!

[Ss laser]

Cheap and easy are all relative terms. Have you considered another snake species or is your daughter set on a BP? Maybe a colubrid of some sort would be better?

I recently went thru the exact same exercise of working with my daughter on fulfilling her wish of snake ownership. We thought a BP was the way to go since it's the go-to "beginner" snake, and they're just so beautiful. But after months of research, we settled on something completely different.

We wanted more a display animal so we could take advantage of a large glass tank. We wanted a snake with a more outgoing personality, which can be hit & miss with beeps. And we were turned off by the more specific and complex husbandry needs of a beep. We ended up going with a Russian Rat. While (arguably) not as beautiful as a ball, he fit the more important traits we were looking for in a pet.

So you've got options, just saying!

Thanks for the new direction to look into. Do you have any links for me on the husbandry and care of a Russian rat? Are there temperament generally nice to handle? I would think so from your recommendation. Thanks again.

As far as the animal plastic cages the price gets way past a 20 long glass tank fast. If I went with T-10 as recommended. I could see 300 easy shipped. Really spoiled by free shipping from amazon. I am going to check with reptiletubs.com as I seen he had pvc cages at the reptile expo last weekend. But I did not check prices as my original plan was a glass tank. He is close enough I could pick it up. Or at the next show.

Also I do get that T-10 might be the only cage needed. But just a divider and heat strip from AP puts it with shipping about $300. And that's no thermostat or thermometer with humidity. And I get all the benefits of the T-10 that goes along with it. But just not sold on the style, look, price, and placement issues for
me. Oh for those looking for a T-10 there is a sale there. And a good price on quick ship page for a T-10 at 150.
Sorry to hi jack this thread! But thanks all for the info and help! Take care.

[hilabeans]

Thanks for the new direction to look into. Do you have any links for me on the husbandry and care of a Russian rat? Are there temperament generally nice to handle? I would think so from your recommendation. Thanks again.

I hate to derail anymore from Plasma's thread, so I'll just say to search this forum and also kingsnake forum. In the General Colubrid section there are a number of very recent threads on Russian Rats from a few members here. And some cool youtube videos, especially of Rainbowshark's snake Levi. He's awesome.

But that's just one type of colubrid. There may be several different kinds that fit your need.

[Ss laser]

Quick search on the Russian rat snakes said adults need a very large cage? But I will research rats and corns more now. Even though my daughter wanted a big snake. Lol. We will check them out at the next expo/show next month. Thanks again.