Help! Humidity issues

Okay. I need some help. So I got my ball python a few weeks ago and did a lot of research on their needs and what to put in their tanks. I have a 20 long glass terrarium with a sliding screen top. Inside I have a large water bowl, a small branch, a half log hide on the warm side and a little cave hide on the cool side. I also have two fake plants and a backdrop to make him feel safe and at home. I'm using coconut fiber dirt as substrate and just yesterday bought sphagnum moss and have it in the tank as well. On the exterior of the tank I have a 75 watt infrared bulb (on the side not with the water bowl) and on the same side I have a small heating pad on the underside of the tank. The overall temp of the tank varies between 80 and 85 F.
My issue is humidity. I'm gonna take you through my experience so far.
I was misting the tank until it got between 50 and 60 on the humidity gauge in the morning and leaving for the day, for work or other things. When I would come back the humidity would be down to thirty. So I would spray again. It always went down to thirty. Eventually I watched it and tested, and within about an hour it goes down to 30! That means my poor baby barely ever has the proper humidity!
So I looked up ways to increase humidity, I have the right kind of substrate for it, good. The screen top was brought to my attention. I tried using a damp towel, I have tried plexiglas, it makes no difference. I am now going to try foil cause it may cover more and get a better seal.
Still having no luck with humidity I went to the reptile store near me (LLLReptiles) and asked about a timed automatic mister. I was told this was not good for snakes.
My last resort, yesterday I went and picked up the sphagnum moss. As the instructions said I soaked it in water for a while, squeezed out the excess, the decorated various parts of the tank with it. Then I sprayed the tank and the humidity went up to 70. I had hope! But I woke up this morning and the humidity is down to 30 again! I touched the moss and it COMPLETELY dried out overnight! I'm very upset about that.
Now, getting to what I think the problem is.
I've noticed something. So my infrared heat lamp sits on the screen, the screen slides off, so when I want to take Charlie (my ball python) out I have to turn the lamp off and set it on an oven mitt thing. I leave the screen off while I have him out and therefore leave the lamp off.
When I go to put him back the humidity is always up to 50.
So my infra red heat lamp is the issue (I think). It's completely drying up everything in the tank, sucking the moisture and humidity out. It's also drying out the moss.
SO my problem is I have no clue what to do.
I can't not have a heat lamp. I tried only using a heating pad and it didn't heat up the cage AT ALL. So I need a heat lamp to keep the cage warm. I'm using a 75 watt and the cage barely stays between 80 and 85, so I can't get a bulb with smaller wattage (I don't think).
Also, I can't have a heat lamp that emits normal light as the terrarium is on my dresser and I wouldn't be able to sleep with a normal light on.
So what are my options then? Is there any other kind of lamp I can use that doesn't create a lot of light? (Assuming my lamp is sucking out moisture because its infrared, let me know if that's not the issue).
Or are there any other special tricks to making a tank more humid?
Sorry for such a long post but i'm super stressed out about the humidity and i'm worried about Charlie being happy and healthy. I've never had a reptile before so i'm completely new to all of these issues.
Thank you so much if you have any advice! I'm open to ANY and ALL options.
-Connor

Is your humidity gage located under the light? Also, you can check out a CHE (ceramic heating element); it gives off no light and lasts longer than a bulb.


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BPGator, No, the humidity gauge is located in the middle of the tank with the the thermometer, not under the light. Also, if you're talking about a ceramic rock I've heard they're bad because they can overheat and burn the snake, so I don't want to get one of those. But if your talking about a ceramic heat lamp let me know, I haven't seen those and don't know anything about them.

Fish tank + screen top + heat lamp == Problems

Let me help you help yourself.

Caresheet

Setups read the stickies

Once you go through that we can help you with specific questions.

FYI. A tank setup is possible but can be difficult. It may be better to switch to an appropriately sized tub until you get the hang of things.

JodanOrNorDan,

I already read countless care sheets upon purchasing my snake, and I already looked up how to properly set up a tank on many sites, so that is of no help to me.

Also, it's not a fish tank?
It's a terrarium specifically designed for reptiles.

And no i'm not going to use a tub. First off I got this tank cause it's what a lot of people use, and it gives him the best amount of space and allows me to create a more natural environment. Second off I spent a lot of money on this terrarium and am not going to waste it, it's a very nice terrarium. And it's also appropriately sized.

I realize it can be hard with this kind of setup, that's why i'm here asking for help specifically making use of what I already have. I'm open to getting a new kind of lamp, but i'm not replacing my terrarium. If you want to help, please help me to use what I already have. Otherwise, you cannot help me. And I also know all of the basics already, I don't need any care sheets.

But thank you anyways.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ConWolf416

BPGator, No, the humidity gauge is located in the middle of the tank with the the thermometer, not under the light. Also, if you're talking about a ceramic rock I've heard they're bad because they can overheat and burn the snake, so I don't want to get one of those. But if your talking about a ceramic heat lamp let me know, I haven't seen those and don't know anything about them.

---

I'm not talking about a rock, it's more like a bulb. This is an example:

https://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Repti...rds=che+heater

Is the thermometer in the middle of the tank the only thermometer you have? It's important to have a digital thermometer on the inside of your tank, under your coco right next to the heat mat. This is the maximum temperature your snake can feel. There are numerous stories on this forum of snakes getting burned because heat mats are being used unregulated by a thermostat. Here's a decent starter thermostat:

https://www.amazon.com/MTPRTC-Contro...art+thermostat

It's also helpful to get a more accurate thermostat/hygrometer. This will be closer to the floor, where your snake is and give you a better idea of the humidity and air temperature:

https://www.amazon.com/AcuRite-00891...ter+with+probe

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BPGator

I'm not talking about a rock, it's more like a bulb. This is an example:

https://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Repti...rds=che+heater

Is the thermometer in the middle of the tank the only thermometer you have? It's important to have a digital thermometer on the inside of your tank, under your coco right next to the heat mat. This is the maximum temperature your snake can feel. There are numerous stories on this forum of snakes getting burned because heat mats are being used unregulated by a thermostat. Here's a decent starter thermostat:

https://www.amazon.com/MTPRTC-Contro...art+thermostat

It's also helpful to get a more accurate thermostat/hygrometer. This will be closer to the floor, where your snake is and give you a better idea of the humidity and air temperature:

https://www.amazon.com/AcuRite-00891...ter+with+probe

---

Thank you. Please help him. I am banning myself from the board for the rest of the day. I am out of patience. A lot of experts around today that are a third of my age with one snake, so I am out until I develop a better attitude. LOL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

Thank you. Please help him. I am banning myself from the board for the rest of the day. I am out of patience. A lot of experts around today that are a third of my age with one snake, so I am out until I develop a better attitude. LOL

---

I recently got home and had my Scotch, so I'm good to go. I'm in a very understanding mood now :)


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Try taking the bulb away. If your covering the screen then it's probably the reason things are drying out.

I have the almost Identical setup but with a 10 gallon tank and a ceramic heat emitter in the middle and foil covering 98% of the screen, with no moss inside. The che will do the same thing, dry it out quick. I figured that out 2 weeks ago. The minute I turned it off the humidity rises from 50 to 65%. Every couple days I would have to spray the substrate good and damp to keep it above 60%.

So I have added a second water bowl and keep the che off until I can get a radiant heat panel setup figured out with this tank. It's been 3 days with the che off, the cool side stays at 75*f, hot side 95*f, and humidity hovers around 80%. I have extra thg heat tape I was thinking of putting on top of the screen hot side to warm the air temp and not mess with the humidity.

Here is my thread to give a better understanding of what I've been through.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=246577
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...1d944ce386.jpg

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WarrThox check out the Boaphile website under heat panel menu, he sells one specifically for a 10 gallon tank, looks like it serves as the entire cover


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

Thank you. Please help him. I am banning myself from the board for the rest of the day. I am out of patience. A lot of experts around today that are a third of my age with one snake, so I am out until I develop a better attitude. LOL

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Never said I was an expert because I'm most definitely not. Just that I had already read care sheets, that wasn't my issue, that it's not a fish tank, and that I don't want to use a tub.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BPGator

I'm not talking about a rock, it's more like a bulb. This is an example:

https://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Repti...rds=che+heater

Is the thermometer in the middle of the tank the only thermometer you have? It's important to have a digital thermometer on the inside of your tank, under your coco right next to the heat mat. This is the maximum temperature your snake can feel. There are numerous stories on this forum of snakes getting burned because heat mats are being used unregulated by a thermostat. Here's a decent starter thermostat:

https://www.amazon.com/MTPRTC-Contro...art+thermostat

It's also helpful to get a more accurate thermostat/hygrometer. This will be closer to the floor, where your snake is and give you a better idea of the humidity and air temperature:

https://www.amazon.com/AcuRite-00891...ter+with+probe

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ill definitely check out the ceramic bulb! You think that'll help with humidity?
also, his heating pad is on the outside of the cage underneath, and there's an inch of substrate between his area and the warmed glass. On top of that if I feel the dirt it's just mildly warm, so I don't believe it could burn him. Plus if he got too warm he could just go to the other side of the tank. I'm not ruling a thermostat out as it is a good idea, but that's something I'll look Into once I have the humidity figured out and a healthy snake. (I had to pay 500 in vet bills cause he was sick when I got him so I don't have extra money lying around)
Thank you for the links!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bmocken

Try taking the bulb away. If your covering the screen then it's probably the reason things are drying out.

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If you didn't read all of what I said, I mentioned I can't take the bulb away. The tank will not stay warm enough without it. Also, covering part of the screen actually increases humidity accords to many forums I've read, as it keeps it from all going out the top.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WarrThox

I have the almost Identical setup but with a 10 gallon tank and a ceramic heat emitter in the middle and foil covering 98% of the screen, with no moss inside. The che will do the same thing, dry it out quick. I figured that out 2 weeks ago. The minute I turned it off the humidity rises from 50 to 65%. Every couple days I would have to spray the substrate good and damp to keep it above 60%.

So I have added a second water bowl and keep the che off until I can get a radiant heat panel setup figured out with this tank. It's been 3 days with the che off, the cool side stays at 75*f, hot side 95*f, and humidity hovers around 80%. I have extra thg heat tape I was thinking of putting on top of the screen hot side to warm the air temp and not mess with the humidity.

Here is my thread to give a better understanding of what I've been through.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=246577
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...1d944ce386.jpg

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so your ceramic heat bulb does the same thing as my infrared? Just sucks out the humidity? Ahh then getting one of those wouldn't help me would it. Do you think a heat panel wouldn't?

Yes. I think a heat panel would be the perfect solution to a tank setup. They heat differently than the infrared and che bulbs.

That boaphile heat panel would be perfect to go with my 10gal but my future plan is a T10 from ap and would prefer to get the 40w from reptile basics

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by ConWolf416

so your ceramic heat bulb does the same thing as my infrared? Just sucks out the humidity? Ahh then getting one of those wouldn't help me would it. Do you think a heat panel wouldn't?

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Also maybe think about just bumping the room temp up a few degrees and see where the cool side temp settles at.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by vikingr

WarrThox check out the Boaphile website under heat panel menu, he sells one specifically for a 10 gallon tank, looks like it serves as the entire cover


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Thanks vikingr! It's definitely tempting. Wish it was black though. I only want to buy one heat panel and still get a regular one and set it on top and seal the edges.

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I have a tank and this is what I do.

UTH set to 93F
Moss. Dampen new moss before putting in or I just heavily mist the moss that's already in there. I have foil covering the mesh top to help lock in moisture.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by WarrThox

Thanks vikingr! It's definitely tempting. Wish it was black though. I only want to buy one heat panel and still get a regular one and set it on top and seal the edges.

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Yeah RHPs all seem to be white except for some with black frames like RB's. I just ordered a loaded Boaphile pvc cage but was on the fence with the AP T10. Agree u should get an RHP that will fit a T10 but you'd be looking at 80 watts for a 4' cage right? Never work with ur current setup?


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by vikingr

Yeah RHPs all seem to be white except for some with black frames like RB's. I just ordered a loaded Boaphile pvc cage but was on the fence with the AP T10. Agree u should get an RHP that will fit a T10 but you'd be looking at 80 watts for a 4' cage right? Never work with ur current setup?


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Ya but I want to use the divider for a while and the 80 watt rhp is 12x22in. I guess it all depends if I want another ball for the other half, then I think the 40 watt would be fine for half of a T10. Unless I could notch out the divider perfectly to fit the 80w rhp, half of it on each side.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by ConWolf416

If you didn't read all of what I said, I mentioned I can't take the bulb away. The tank will not stay warm enough without it. Also, covering part of the screen actually increases humidity accords to many forums I've read, as it keeps it from all going out the top.

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I did read what you wrote but your fairly set in what you have and don't seem to want to change much. Btw any enclosure made of glass is in fact a tank even if they sell it for reptiles. There are a lot of things big companies sell because people will buy them. Doesn't mean they are the right enclosure for the kind of animal you have. Taking away the light for a little bit you could have seen if it affected the humidity in the tank and if it does start problem solving that. Hope you get it figured out for the snakes sake.

[QUOTE=
Thank you so much if you have any advice! I'm open to ANY and ALL options.
-Connor[/QUOTE]

It seems to me you're asking for help, then shooting down what people are offering as suggestions. You're clearly not "open to ANY and ALL options."

You say you did research and studied the setup help threads and stickies. Then what's the issue? Your setup should have been up and running and these issues worked out BEFORE you brought a snake home.

Now you're asking for help but not willing to do what people suggest. You're coming off like an expert with the knowledge of a newbie.

Could we just talk to the snake please? Maybe the snake is a better listener?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ConWolf416

ill definitely check out the ceramic bulb! You think that'll help with humidity?
also, his heating pad is on the outside of the cage underneath, and there's an inch of substrate between his area and the warmed glass. On top of that if I feel the dirt it's just mildly warm, so I don't believe it could burn him. Plus if he got too warm he could just go to the other side of the tank. I'm not ruling a thermostat out as it is a good idea, but that's something I'll look Into once I have the humidity figured out and a healthy snake. (I had to pay 500 in vet bills cause he was sick when I got him so I don't have extra money lying around)
Thank you for the links!

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I thought you said you didn't want light on. Plus the ceramic is a more efficient heat source.

I understand the UTH is on the outside and you have substrate on the inside. Ball pythons will burrow closer to the heat source over time. You may think it will just go to the cool side to cool off but it will not. These animals are stupid and will burn themselves. It is always recommended that the temp UNDER the substrate be around 90°. Yes your substrate on top will be cooler but your snake can find it's way down to the warmer spot. His spot on top of the substrate should not feel warm to you - your hand is 98° so if it feels warm there's a chance it's too hot for him. Making sure it's not too hot is more important than humidity in the short term.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by SaltLife422

I have a tank and this is what I do.

UTH set to 93F
Moss. Dampen new moss before putting in or I just heavily mist the moss that's already in there. I have foil covering the mesh top to help lock in moisture.


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Only using a UTH his tank wouldn't go above 75 degrees. Which means I need some sort of overhead heater too

Quote:

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

It seems to me you're asking for help, then shooting down what people are offering as suggestions. You're clearly not "open to ANY and ALL options."

You say you did research and studied the setup help threads and stickies. Then what's the issue? Your setup should have been up and running and these issues worked out BEFORE you brought a snake home.

Now you're asking for help but not willing to do what people suggest. You're coming off like an expert with the knowledge of a newbie.

Could we just talk to the snake please? Maybe the snake is a better listener?

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Saying im open to any options means I'm willing to hear any options you have. It doesn't mean I'm going to try them, so me saying no that won't work for me personally doesn't mean I'm not one to hearing options? I'm not an expert, I said I wasn't one. I'm not acting like an expert. There are certain things I cannot do. I cannot switch to a tub. I cannot only use a UTH cause it doesn't warm up the tank. I'm not throwing away suggestions just cause I don't like them. I can't do certain things.
i bought the tank a week before I bought him, but I didn't get the heat lamp until I got him. So I wasn't aware there was a humidity issue. And I understand I should've got everything before, I agree, but I got all my money at once so I just bought the stuff then.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BPGator

I thought you said you didn't want light on. Plus the ceramic is a more efficient heat source.

I understand the UTH is on the outside and you have substrate on the inside. Ball pythons will burrow closer to the heat source over time. You may think it will just go to the cool side to cool off but it will not. These animals are stupid and will burn themselves. It is always recommended that the temp UNDER the substrate be around 90°. Yes your substrate on top will be cooler but your snake can find it's way down to the warmer spot. His spot on top of the substrate should not feel warm to you - your hand is 98° so if it feels warm there's a chance it's too hot for him. Making sure it's not too hot is more important than humidity in the short term.


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I'm going to look into getting a thermostat for my UTH and look into ceramic heaters. Thanks for your advice, you're the only person who actually gave good advice.

I'd put some branches in there ... The love climbing !


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If you are still looking for ideas:
I have had a huge 40 gal tank since November. Despite all the suggestions to buy new heating equipment, use a tub instead etc etc, I found other ways to retain humidity that were much less costly than changing too much. My methods still are:
A couple of damp washcloths (you can move up to towels if you want),a layer of cut plexiglass that has an opening for the lights, and some dry regular towels on top of that if needed. Those are best for retaining heat.
Inside I use sphagnum moss, repti-bark (I find it hold humidity well without getting nasty, and unlike loose fiber won't get dusty when dry) mixed with an area of tropical mix (dirt-like) bedding on the cool side.
Most useful:
HUMID HIDE. Slapped one right in the middle and have the tropical bedding and a pile of moist moss in it. My BP spends a lot of time in it, and since I added it, he's had flawless sheds combined with occasional misting. It creates a little spot of higher humidity than the baseline 50 my tank is at often for when he needs it. You can make one out of a container that's a good size and save some money there too if you'd like!
I figured these out with trial and error here and there, and he turned out just fine without me wasting all my current supplies and getting all new.