what do you wish you had known before your first ball python? and good UK breeders?

Hi guys. I'm new on here. I have never owned any snakes or any pets apart from rabbits and cats. But I have always been interested in snakes. I am keen on getting a ball python (I like the idea of having a collection of about 6 different morphs but I will start with one first and see how it goes). I have done quite a bit of research on how to care for them so I know about the importance of temperature gradient, what to feed them etc. My question to more experiences keepers is this...what do you wish you had known before you bought your first ball python? What isn't on the care sheets that you wish you had known before your first ball python.

Also I am currently living overseas but will be returning to my native country (UK) soon. Does anyone have any recommendations for good UK breeders?

Substrate/humidity differences and covering the screen top to keep humidity in. Maintaining humidity was murder before I found out.

If you are in the North of England, I can't recommend The Reptile Room near Blackpool enough. Great staff and a massive variety of snakes of all kind. It's specifically a privately owned reptile shop so they know a lot about the care of snakes (as opposed to a more generalised brand name shop like Pets at Home). I also recommend Urban Jungle in Manchester and The Reptile Wonderland.

All good shops with nice animals, great reviews and friendly staff, from my experience.

I live in Cumbria so Manchester and Blackpool aren't too hard to get to couple of hours by train which is doable thank you I'll look into these.

I wish I new that they can quite easily stop feeding for months on end with no bad effects then just start again with no explanation. !

Also that when snakes have been in shed mode and their eyes clear up and their colour returns to normal there is no point tearing their viv apart looking for the sheds skin :)

( it comes off a few days later )

Also to keep an eye our RFUK classifieds when you're looking for a snake / breeder or a cheap used vivarium set up .

They are addictive. Get a large rack for the main collection and a smaller one for quarantine.

1. That is it far better to set them up correctly to begin with, in the case of Ball Pythons, a Rack system. Especially for more then just one or two..

2. That they are so addictive. You will quickly want more. Which also comes back to getting the right enclosure (that houses up to 5 or 6, lol..)

Knowing that this site existed would have been a great thing. Even though I have been involved with the internet since it was commercially viable, acquiring knowledge through books and experimentation has always been my primary method of learning. This board was a pleasant surprise. Once you have figured out who actually knows things and who doesn't, this place is probably the best source of ball python experience I have found yet throughout all media types.

I wish I'd known about the value of having a temp gun, they are relatively cheap and make life so much more straight forward with respect to getting the temp gradient right, really, one should come with everyone's first BP.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

I wish I new that they can quite easily stop feeding for months on end with no bad effects then just start again with no explanation. !

Also that when snakes have been in shed mode and their eyes clear up and their colour returns to normal there is no point tearing their viv apart looking for the sheds skin :)

( it comes off a few days later )

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^^
I agree with zinc[emoji4]


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Originally Posted by bcr229

They are addictive. Get a large rack for the main collection and a smaller one for quarantine.

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Seconding this. I did my research for well on two years before I looked to purchase, so husbandry wise I didn't have too many questions. But when I finally set out intending to get one snake, I ended up not being able to pass up a deal on 2... and now I have 10 and will probably have a couple more before the next year!

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Originally Posted by bcr229

They are addictive. Get a large rack for the main collection and a smaller one for quarantine.

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

Seconding this.

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third this. when i first got Yellow i never thought i'd get a second. when i got Spaghetti i never thought i'd want more. now i'm creating a breeding tree so i can plan any future beeps and dream about one day making some babies.

Yup, only I've been working on my breeding plans for a couple years now and I'm all set to start pairings going this fall/winter. Super duper exciting!

Reptiles are addictive, started with a corn and am on my 4th species of reptile. That said if your in the south London area then Crystal palace has the best rep in that area - seriously every place I know of in the south London area that stocks any species of reptiles and fish knows of them.

AlienPenguin .... Don't forget to have a look at the RFUK classifieds when you're ready to buy !!!

They're second to none , far better than FaceBook or PreLoved or whatever and load of top breeders are members so even if you dont see what you're for in the classifieds - someone will know a breeder or someone else ...

I wish I had known about the ideas, opinions, beliefs, and attitudes expressed in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzc2PBsY7v0&t=308s

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Originally Posted by Slither Seeker

I wish I'd known about the value of having a temp gun, they are relatively cheap and make life so much more straight forward with respect to getting the temp gradient right, really, one should come with everyone's first BP.

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I'd agree especially at £9.99 inc p&p off eBay

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Originally Posted by alienpenguin

Hi guys. I'm new on here. I have never owned any snakes or any pets apart from rabbits and cats. But I have always been interested in snakes. I am keen on getting a ball python (I like the idea of having a collection of about 6 different morphs but I will start with one first and see how it goes). I have done quite a bit of research on how to care for them so I know about the importance of temperature gradient, what to feed them etc. My question to more experiences keepers is this...what do you wish you had known before you bought your first ball python? What isn't on the care sheets that you wish you had known before your first ball python.

Also I am currently living overseas but will be returning to my native country (UK) soon. Does anyone have any recommendations for good UK breeders?

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I am in the US so cannot help with breeders, but BP's are my favorite species and I've had a ton of different species. They are easy feeders, usually quite nice and great to photograph because they usually do not have a problem staying still.

Before I got my first BP I kept mostly colubrids and I wish I had known then that BP's (and other pythons) will sometimes go off feed for several months at a time. This is much less common in colubrids, which seem to have a higher metabolism to me. As long as your BP doesn't lose weight when it is off feed, it's likely totally normal, especially in winter.

Good luck!

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Originally Posted by Praomys

I wish I had known about the ideas, opinions, beliefs, and attitudes expressed in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzc2PBsY7v0&t=308s

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The moral of this story is stay in school kids lol Naw, I actually really like this video. Anyone who tries to breed ball pythons as more then a side job and without putting in the time and effort to do a lot of research is really kidding themselves. I see people buying things like pastel males with hopes of breeding them to females they're going to buy in the future and it actually kind of bothers me... but that's besides the point

If I were to go back in time and give myself some advice it would be to wait. Wait wait wait wait wait... If I had waited until right around this time to start getting into the animals I would have had more money to "invest" into better "quality" animals. I was 12 when I got my first ball python and my second shortly afterwards which were both normals. I still have them and love Gobi and Sahara but I feel like if I want to be a "serious" breeder I'm going to have to sell at least Gobi and it's going to hurt. Luckily I'm in no hurry to sell him and I'm going to wait until I can find an experienced keeper who knows what they're doing before I sell him.

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Originally Posted by Praomys

I wish I had known about the ideas, opinions, beliefs, and attitudes expressed in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzc2PBsY7v0&t=308s

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Good video.

I am not that business focused on it as it was always a hobby from my point of view rather than a way of making money but he explains his position clearly. :)

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Originally Posted by Praomys

I wish I had known about the ideas, opinions, beliefs, and attitudes expressed in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzc2PBsY7v0&t=308s

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Here's my :2cent: take on his take:

1. I agree that breeding ball pythons is not a get rich scheme. Like so many things, sometimes the best way to make a small fortune is to start with a large one.
2. I agree that the priority for someone younger wanting to get into the business should be to first get an education. Spending tuition money on snakes is not a good idea for most.
3. I agree that if you are going to do it anyway, then you should absolutely have a passion for what you're doing and be willing to invest significant time and energy into doing so.

I don't agree that he should be looked at as someone who's an expert on BPs or the BP market at all. Not even remotely so. Here's why:

1. He said that he bought four BPs - 1 Paint, 2 Normals, and 1 Pastel. Two of the four died because of "genetic issues".
2. He felt it was inhumane to keep them in a rack system and described their behavior in the 125G aquarium as being happy because they were all over the place (which was quite likely a sign of stress).
3. He says, "I didn't care enough about my snakes to give every last one of them that type of environment" - the environment he described as making them happy (the 125G aquarium). He doesn't care to make them happy?
4. He talked about a Hovabator incubator as if it were the crème de la crème for ball pythons. They are most certainly not - not even close.

Again, just my honest :2cent: worth (which would probably have been better spent paying off my student loans :P).

Best regards,
Eric

Yeah honestly, that video rubs me the wrong way on so many points, and it mostly because he's judging the hobby, and breeding in general based off his failure, but his failure was due to unrealistic expectations, lack of commitment, lack of research, and lack of passion for the specific animal, not a flaw or failure in the market and certainly not in the animals. He jumped without looking first, is it any wonder when he smacked his butt on the bottom?

I don't see it as being as bad as many in here .. He sounds like a pretty bright guy with his head screwed on , if he's speaking from his perspective and experiences it should be seen as just one persons's viewpoint and not THE definitive one . It all depends on where he got his information from about the available rack systems and the ' ball python market ' he talks about . He's maybe just badly misinformed .
That said I'm in the UK and know nothing at all about rack systems ..

If there's something you want thats pretty expensive just wait it out a year or two cause the price will probably go down. I got my banana boy right before banana prices dropped. I paid $1500 for him early 2014 by the end of that year i could of got a 3 gene banana combo for $1500. I felt kinda salty but I don't resent my nana in any way for this. I think banana by it self is impressive enough.

Thanks for everyone's help.

That video does piss me off. I agree with Eric Alan on the video. He says he doesn't care enough about his snakes to give them what he thinks is the right environment. If you don't care enough about an animal regardless of what it is to give it the right environment to thrive you have no business owning said animal. I'm not an expert obviously most of my research is from the internet (though I have done a lot) I thought if snakes are happy they sometimes don't move for hours or even days and if they are stressed they move a lot. This would make the video wrong.

I'm not planning on breeding ball pythons anyway. I wouldn't definitely discount it maybe in a few years with more confidence but I'm not planning on buying snakes to breed and sell as some kind of get rich scheme. Some people seem to get ball pythons thinking they will breed them into really cool morphs and make loads of money without any understanding of genetics or how much time and energy it takes the proper professional breeders to do this. While I will of course take the time to provide any snakes I buy with the correct environment and everything they need to thrive I'm not sure I would be able to put in the extra time and energy to breed and raise them competently.

As for types of morphs I like albinos, bananas and piebalds best. I also like the silvery ones but I don't know what that morph is called (pic below) anyone know the morph name? I know some morphs are more expensive than others but I'm willing to pay more to get exactly what I want.

http://40.media.tumblr.com/6d5da9e24...d9s3o1_500.jpg

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Originally Posted by alienpenguin

Thanks for everyone's help.

That video does piss me off. I agree with Eric Alan on the video. He says he doesn't care enough about his snakes to give them what he thinks is the right environment. If you don't care enough about an animal regardless of what it is to give it the right environment to thrive you have no business owning said animal. I'm not an expert obviously most of my research is from the internet (though I have done a lot) I thought if snakes are happy they sometimes don't move for hours or even days and if they are stressed they move a lot. This would make the video wrong.

I'm not planning on breeding ball pythons anyway. I wouldn't definitely discount it maybe in a few years with more confidence but I'm not planning on buying snakes to breed and sell as some kind of get rich scheme. Some people seem to get ball pythons thinking they will breed them into really cool morphs and make loads of money without any understanding of genetics or how much time and energy it takes the proper professional breeders to do this. While I will of course take the time to provide any snakes I buy with the correct environment and everything they need to thrive I'm not sure I would be able to put in the extra time and energy to breed and raise them competently.

As for types of morphs I like albinos, bananas and piebalds best. I also like the silvery ones but I don't know what that morph is called (pic below) anyone know the morph name? I know some morphs are more expensive than others but I'm willing to pay more to get exactly what I want.

http://40.media.tumblr.com/6d5da9e24...d9s3o1_500.jpg

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One little point , that so called rule about snakes moving around clearly can't be levelled at all types of snakes .

To be honest , I'm not even sure where that idea came from anyways . Any evidence ??

So many are simply acting normal by sleeping during the day as they are nocturnal and as such you're unlikely to see them in daylight hours ..


Incidentally , anyone know the type of Morph at the bottom ??


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Being on the same boat with never owning a snake before (only have cats and betta fish), this thread is so incredibly helpful! Seriously, the value of this thread and all the wisdom everyone is sharing is priceless. Thank you for being such an awesome community! And thank you op for starting this thread!

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To be honest , I'm not even sure where that idea came from anyways . Any evidence ??

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Well this got long winded, but I think it probably counts under "things a new keeper should know before getting a snake" so here you go.

The ideas are from direct observations of ball python behavior in the wild. It also comes from observations of stressed ball python behavior in captivity.

Keep in mind, this doesn't necessarily apply to active hunter species like most colubrids, or large predator species like the big pythons. They have different hunting styles, live in different places and/or deal with different predation pressures due to size or defensive features like venom. Ball pythons are nocturnal ambush predators, but more than that...

Balls are from sub-Saharan Africa, savannah and scrub land. This is home to the TOP mega predators of our current era; we're talking lions, leopards, hyenas, wild dogs, jackals, cheetahs, honey badgers, secretary birds, hawks, crocs, lizards and even other, bigger snakes, and that list is hardly exhaustive! A ball python, is basically on the last few bottom steps of the food chain in their native habitat, only thing under it being the rodents and small birds they eat and the bugs those eat. They're not powerhouses, and they don't have venom- in short a tasty, low risk, low effort tube of meat. As such, the ball python's best defense from being snacked on is not being found or caught in the first place.

So they hide. Most adults will find a nice rodent borrow, eat the current residents, and stay there for weeks chomping down what ever unlucky sucker comes along looking for some new digs. If it starts to smell too much like snake stank, they move on to a new borrow, and repeat the process. The snakes are most active when they're younger- juveniles have been recorded going up into trees to eat bird chicks from nests- and when they're interested in finding a mate. Other than that, a ball that's hidden, is a ball that lives.

In our homes, they don't know that a hawk or leopard isn't going to swoop down on them from above, and there's no way to explain it to them. Their instincts tell them to stay hidden, stay safe, and stay alive. When introduced to a large enclosure that doesn't sufficiently break up line of sight as much as possible, they feel open and exposed. the stress and feeling vulnerable puts them off food because eating and digesting a meal makes them even more vulnerable. There is a reason we advise new keepers to put their snakes into small tubs if they aren't eating: it's because designing a large enclosure for a snake is a tricky thing for the inexperienced. We get them into a habitat where they feel safe, get them relaxed and feeding again, before trying to scale back up with a better idea of the needs of the animal in mind. It may seem "cruel" to keep them in a small cage set up because we think of the wild as this HUUUUUGE sprawling thing of wide open spaces, but when you understand that a bp can live it's entire 30+ year life span until ranging within a 3 mile radius, you start to realize how much of it they don't really actively use.

^^^^* a very convincing case has been made .... although I have also heard reports of some researchers who regularly found Royals resting in branches of trees in their natural habitat whilst studying their behaviour .

I will do some searching online ...

the ones I've seen referenced are mostly juveniles. and males during mating season. As the snakes get bigger, climbing gets harder and they also become larger, more obvious targets. They will still try to go up for a meal though, if they smell one and they're hungry. As all things in nature when you're an opportunity predator, sometimes a risk is worth it.

Not sure if it's been mentioned already but that morph was likely produced by Corey woods. Definitely red axanthic likely pastel likely lesser and there might be another gene or two in there


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Originally Posted by kxr

Not sure if it's been mentioned already but that morph was likely produced by Corey woods. Definitely red axanthic likely pastel likely lesser and there might be another gene or two in there


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I found the page. It is a pastel red axanthic. I think it was Corey Woods but I can't remember for sure.

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Originally Posted by alienpenguin

My question to more experiences keepers is this...what do you wish you had known before you bought your first ball python? What isn't on the care sheets that you wish you had known before your first ball python.

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Morph Market.

The different combinations of genes and morphs and their names, varied breeders and links to their sites.