Not sure what to do anymore

I've had a bad feeling from these guys for awhile now but I'm done now but I don't really know what to do. So it started out with me getting to know a peer, his name is Robert and he owns his own reptile store. Now disclaimer. Last time under a different username I posted about having snakes I couldn't feed and blah blah blah and you guys did recon and found them like some FBI agents and started calling their phone number so please DO NOT CALL THEM IR HARASS THEM they're good people but I probably just annoy them. everything is all good I can feed my snakes. Well here's the delemma. Both Robert and his father own the store and they know me well, often talking to me for awhile, and they are very knowledgeable. All their animals are well kept. But when they first opened the store they were extremely nice, treated me as a customer, but slowly I kind of have been mistreated and prices have been changed, and I don't have a problem with that, you have to make money. But with some things, like feeder mice for example, when I know when the weather is cooler the price is cheaper because you don't need to air condition them, they keep the price the same. Just little things. Or when I come in and ask for mice and my mom is waiting on a time restraint in the car and I ask for my usual 6 adult frozen mice I get soemthing like. "I don't know if we have any" what do you mean you don't know. Okay then I say something like "can I get 6 prekilled" and I'll get some response from the father like "I really don't feel like killing them". Come on it literally says on the board you have that. So I sit and wait and banter until he does and I get my things. But just until recently my text conversations with Robert have been really rude and I'm done supporting their business. However I do not want to support petsmart either. I do not know where to get my feeders. I've looked online and the prices are good but when I put the shipping it becomes outrageous. I'm really stuck here. I just don't know what to do. Here are some screenshots of our texts. What do you think? https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...m%2Fn5hkwk.jpghttps://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...%2F34837rs.jpg

What's your question exactly?

The adult mice at my local box store is about 4 dollars per... I've never seen them for 2.50.

Ordering online in bulk is the best bargain, even with shipping.


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Temps really don't have to do with prices. If they raised the prices and they said the reason was temp then what they probably meant was "cooling the mice in summer is cutting into our profits so we'll raise them in order to cover that." Changing prices between seasons requires printing out new tags or making new signs- so time and effort. It makes sense for their prices to remain constant.
As for changing the prices, they probably picked a price initially- then realized they were losing money. That's my guess anyway.
Sounds like the son is a bit clueless/apathetic. I'm not sure I would say he's being rude. It's hard to tell from a text. Does sound like their customer service enthusiasm is lacking. How long ago did they open?

But 2.75 doesn't sound bad. But maybe that's 'cause I buy medium live rats and that's a good $8 a week.

Welp time to go track them down :cool:
Just kidding.:rofl:
Dar I ask why petsmart is such a bad alternative? I mean you still get apathetic/clueless employees but at least its a 50/50 chance.

What percentage of the cost of one mouse do you think the A/C accounts for? Keep in mind the cost of food, space (even if you do it in the garage of a house you own, there are still costs associated with that), maintaining a breeding colony, and the human labor it takes to clean and feed and stuff. And if you're buying from a retail shop, contained in the price of every single item (yes, even mice bred in the garage) is the cost of rent, electricity, staff (like paying for someone to come in and feed the animals even on days when the store is closed, even if it is the owner - yes, you pay for that when you buy mice from a brick and mortar pet store), and all the other licenses and expenses involved with running a business. Plus the fact that presumably the owners feel that they deserve a decent take home paycheck.

Are you seriously asking for a discount based on what you assume their air conditioning costs are? Are you looking for sympathy because you got a chilly reception?

I have worked in a couple of different small businesses and run my own currently. Sometimes there are customers who just take way more time than they are worth, to put it bluntly. If you're the employee or the owner, after awhile, you just reply very briefly or not at all. You definitely don't go out of your way for the person. Mostly you just hope they'll go away, and if they go waste people's time at the competition, so much the better. People who quibble on the price of small items end up in that category very quickly.

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Originally Posted by Timelugia

Temps really don't have to do with prices. If they raised the prices and they said the reason was temp then what they probably meant was "cooling the mice in summer is cutting into our profits so we'll raise them in order to cover that." Changing prices between seasons requires printing out new tags or making new signs- so time and effort. It makes sense for their prices to remain constant.
As for changing the prices, they probably picked a price initially- then realized they were losing money. That's my guess anyway.
Sounds like the son is a bit clueless/apathetic. I'm not sure I would say he's being rude. It's hard to tell from a text. Does sound like their customer service enthusiasm is lacking. How long ago did they open?

But 2.75 doesn't sound bad. But maybe that's 'cause I buy medium live rats and that's a good $8 a week.

Welp time to go track them down :cool:
Just kidding.:rofl:
Dar I ask why petsmart is such a bad alternative? I mean you still get apathetic/clueless employees but at least its a 50/50 chance.

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They have a white board they change the prices all the time

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Originally Posted by Coluber42

What percentage of the cost of one mouse do you think the A/C accounts for? Keep in mind the cost of food, space (even if you do it in the garage of a house you own, there are still costs associated with that), maintaining a breeding colony, and the human labor it takes to clean and feed and stuff. And if you're buying from a retail shop, contained in the price of every single item (yes, even mice bred in the garage) is the cost of rent, electricity, staff (like paying for someone to come in and feed the animals even on days when the store is closed, even if it is the owner - yes, you pay for that when you buy mice from a brick and mortar pet store), and all the other licenses and expenses involved with running a business. Plus the fact that presumably the owners feel that they deserve a decent take home paycheck.

Are you seriously asking for a discount based on what you assume their air conditioning costs are? Are you looking for sympathy because you got a chilly reception?

I have worked in a couple of different small businesses and run my own currently. Sometimes there are customers who just take way more time than they are worth, to put it bluntly. If you're the employee or the owner, after awhile, you just reply very briefly or not at all. You definitely don't go out of your way for the person. Mostly you just hope they'll go away, and if they go waste people's time at the competition, so much the better. People who quibble on the price of small items end up in that category very quickly.

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The owners father explained it to me that when it's hot outside simply that they have to breed them inside. We live in Southern California it's easily over 100 degrees. He didn't go into detail. I wasn't expecting a discount but during our conversation but it did come up that during the cooler months that price for his mice would come down.

Google is your friend. Unless you live in a really small place I'm sure you can find a source. You may have to buy in bulk to make it worth the trouble but I'm sure you can find something. You might just have to support Petsmart. I know Petsmart is evil on these forums and we aren't supposed to like them all that but for the health and welfare of your animals you might just have to. I buy once a month from a local breeder and euthanize myself with dry ice. The dry ice costs .60 a pound. Once pound does the trick.

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Originally Posted by Mangiapane85

What's your question exactly?

The adult mice at my local box store is about 4 dollars per... I've never seen them for 2.50.

Ordering online in bulk is the best bargain, even with shipping.


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My question was who/ where should I buy my mice from? I looked around online but the shipping killed and I don't really have $100 to spend on mice right now. Just wanted suggestions.

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Originally Posted by cletus

Google is your friend. Unless you live in a really small place I'm sure you can find a source. You may have to buy in bulk to make it worth the trouble but I'm sure you can find something. You might just have to support Petsmart. I know Petsmart is evil on these forums and we aren't supposed to like them all that but for the health and welfare of your animals you might just have to. I buy once a month from a local breeder and euthanize myself with dry ice. The dry ice costs .60 a pound. Once pound does the trick.

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How much does your breeder charge if you mind me asking? Kind of curious if it matters on how many you buy or not. Would it be cheaper to find a breeder than go to a pet store?

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Originally Posted by Joshyboy

How much does your breeder charge if you mind me asking? Kind of curious if it matters on how many you buy or not. Would it be cheaper to find a breeder than go to a pet store?

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Rat pups are 1.50 and small rats are 2.00. I think weaned rats are 1.80. You get a better deal if you buy in bulk. I don't know about mice. I never bought any from him.

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Originally Posted by cletus

Rat pups are 1.50 and small rats are 2.00. I think weaned rats are 1.80. You get a better deal if you buy in bulk. I don't know about mice. I never bought any from him.

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How many do you usually buy at a time? (sorry for all the questions) and how do you use the dry ice for the euthanasia I've never heard of it. Is it the gas because of the property that dry ice has from going from directly from solid to gas (I think that's carbon dioxide could be wrong) or the cold temps flash freezes them? Doesn't sound that nice lol is there any other way I could do it without the dry ice?

I usually get 5 or 6 pups. I just started buying smalls and I got 5. For the dry ice I just put them in a sealed tub and add the dry ice in a little bowl and add a little bit of water. They pass out really fast and then die. They don't look to be in any pain. They just kind of fall over. You can search on youtube. There are tons of vids out there.

Adult mice from my local breeder that I just recently found are only .80 cents each.


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Originally Posted by cletus

Rat pups are 1.50 and small rats are 2.00. I think weaned rats are 1.80. You get a better deal if you buy in bulk. I don't know about mice. I never bought any from him.

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Still cant believe how much people pay for feeders.....

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Still cant believe how much people pay for feeders.....

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I'd gladly send my business your way. lol I was going to ask you a while back but I saw you took feeders off your website.

Anyone selling something can dictate their own price simply based on their work, market, supply and demand if the price don't fit you, all you have to do it shop around knowing that when it comes to F/T the only way to make it worth when ordering online is to buy bulk 100 or more feeders.

So what happen when price are too high for your liking and it puts you in a bind? Well same thing than before you have options.

1/ Breed your own feeders (I would highly recommend that you get your parents approval before starting in this venture if that is your choice).
2/ Get a job, do chores around the house etc to afford the feeders.
3/ Re-home the animals if they have become of financial burden.

I found my local rat guy on Craigslist. You can also join local facebook groups to see who is posting feeders for sale. If there is any reptile shows you can go to one and pick up feeders.

Some of the online frozen feeder companies have a flat rate of 29 for shipping which isn't that bad.

Southern California has no shortage of available options for feeders, where in SoCal are you?

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Originally Posted by jclaiborne

Southern California has no shortage of available options for feeders, where in SoCal are you?

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I'm in corona and I've looked around but I can't find anything within my range/ my mom's tolerance lol. I bit the bullet and went to petco and picked up some frozen mice although I hate supporting chain stores.

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Originally Posted by jclaiborne

Southern California has no shortage of available options for feeders, where in SoCal are you?

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And i forgot to say when I went to petco they price matched me for feeders I saw online lol. I got 15 frozen mice for $13.50 and at their price it would have cost me $42. They overcharge way too much. Not sure if I can always get this kind of price match but hey they're not getting all my money!!!

Yeah, if they're running their own store, they can charge whatever they want for feeders and change the price as they see fit. I don't know why you're sharing screenshots of text conversations?

I'd advise buying in bulk online. Yes, shipping cost a bit but when you figure out the cost per prey animal, it's not usually too bad.

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Originally Posted by Joshyboy

I'm in corona and I've looked around but I can't find anything within my range/ my mom's tolerance lol. I bit the bullet and went to petco and picked up some frozen mice although I hate supporting chain stores.

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Why is it that you don't like to support chain stores? For most people feel that way, it is due to things like labor practices, standard of care (in the case of pet store chains), monopolies or business practices harm communities, or just the idea of the giant faceless corporation out-competing Mom and Pop (I.e, scale).
Not coincidentally, those are all the exact reasons why chain stores are often cheaper than the small locally-owned competition.

Standing on principle is all well and good, but sometimes it means paying more for things, and that's still true whether you can afford to or not. If you can't afford to follow your principles with your cash, that's the way it is. But don't try to stand on principle about how you want pasture raised beef, handmade bread, and organic vegetables - and then expect people to sell it to you for the price of a big Mac.

At a certain point, you have to accept that Petco can afford to price match for feeders and the locally owned place can't or won't. Either your principle of not liking chain stores is worth paying the price difference, or it isn't. That's still true of you have limited funds.

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

Yeah, if they're running their own store, they can charge whatever they want for feeders and change the price as they see fit. I don't know why you're sharing screenshots of text conversations?

I'd advise buying in bulk online. Yes, shipping cost a bit but when you figure out the cost per prey animal, it's not usually too bad.

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I was just curious if it was appropriate to talk to a customer like this. Just wanted opinions and I thought you guys might have wanted to see the context of the conversation. It honestly doesn't really matter it's just the fact that I wasn't being treated as a customer.

Buy the feeder mice from reptile expos. It's where I get mine, expos in my state every 3 months so I figure the amount from that. I have a local pet store that's near me that are very rude unless you have a dog. They sell live mice, but the owner and his wife give me the biggest crap/glares when I buy them. I'm paying them $60+ a week just for mice/rats that they order but they'll complain about it loudly. I wish the local Petco sold live but sadly they're my only option.

Honestly dude, I'm on the owners side. I've worked in retail before and can tell you're one of those customers who tries to haggle too much.
You also keep trying to get a different answer to the same questions (but your dad said this... blah blah). They're obviously not interested in bringing the prices down. I would be sour with you as well if I were them, answering questions (be it the same one) over and over again take up time, time that they should be investing on running their shop. Don't expect them to spend hours going over info on a $3 product.
If I were you, I'd try to get back on their good side and just be happy as they seem to have good prices.
Otherwise, just go to petsmart, you don't need to buy mice/rats from experts.

I agree, you're not being treated as a regular good customer but from everything you posted and said, you haven't really been behaved like a good customer either. If you come in and ask a whole lot of leading questions about the price and try to imply that if they don't run the AC for the mice then they should be cheaper and you're there to buy a $3 mouse... no, they won't really want to jump through hoops to keep you coming back.

I'm sure you don't think you're being rude, but to a busy business owner who is trying to make the bills every month... yeah, you're being rude. "I'm just asking questions!" but you know you're trying to wheedle a deal and trying to wear them down so you'll get your rodents cheaper. I mean, just own up to that at least.

And sure, folks will pop in and go on about how the shop should be standing on their heads for every $1 spending customer and if it takes an hour of discussion and lowering the price and everything else to "make the customer happy", then the shop should do that... and as a former business owner and a service industry worker now... that ain't even half right. There's a point where you write off a potential customer because they literally are costing you too much time and bother.

I've literally fired clients because they want to constantly wheedle at me over a couple dollars on the price, or find out some magic loophole that will give them what they want and it's just not worth it some days.

Sorry to go on a rant over it, but it's the holiday season and I'm so over it already. Small businesses have a very slim margin of profit and customers seem to feel like if they don't give away the product, they're cheating the customers. It's annoying.

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

I agree, you're not being treated as a regular good customer but from everything you posted and said, you haven't really been behaved like a good customer either. If you come in and ask a whole lot of leading questions about the price and try to imply that if they don't run the AC for the mice then they should be cheaper and you're there to buy a $3 mouse... no, they won't really want to jump through hoops to keep you coming back.

I'm sure you don't think you're being rude, but to a busy business owner who is trying to make the bills every month... yeah, you're being rude. "I'm just asking questions!" but you know you're trying to wheedle a deal and trying to wear them down so you'll get your rodents cheaper. I mean, just own up to that at least.

And sure, folks will pop in and go on about how the shop should be standing on their heads for every $1 spending customer and if it takes an hour of discussion and lowering the price and everything else to "make the customer happy", then the shop should do that... and as a former business owner and a service industry worker now... that ain't even half right. There's a point where you write off a potential customer because they literally are costing you too much time and bother.

I've literally fired clients because they want to constantly wheedle at me over a couple dollars on the price, or find out some magic loophole that will give them what they want and it's just not worth it some days.

Sorry to go on a rant over it, but it's the holiday season and I'm so over it already. Small businesses have a very slim margin of profit and customers seem to feel like if they don't give away the product, they're cheating the customers. It's annoying.

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They don't breed their own mice. They buy them I was told by the owners father that when they buy them from a breeder it costs more to keep them in AC. They don't even have AC. I'm not PETA I'm not worried for the mice, I mean I care about all animals but they are going to be food. As long as they have food and water. But the point is I wouldn't complain, I came in got my things and left. I spent nearly $700 on snakes from them and they treat me like this? I am the one who buys their outrageous stuff. They get in $500 carpet pythons that sit for months and I feel bad and try to get. But the point is that He said think of it like this, "do you want to breed mice" "yea" "but you have to keep them indoors and they stink" "okay now I don't anymore" "but someone has to do it to feed your snakes. that's why they cost more". And Asking questions on animal care is bad? I mean I didn't know being informed was bad. Hmmm guess next time I'm at an expo and I get a new animal I shouldn't ask how to take care of it so I don't piss off the seller. It's not the price. I couldn't give one. It's the point that when I walk in and ask for my damn mice and you're too lazy to even check if you have any that annoys me. I'm not your friend. I'm a customer. I don't constantly ask for price changes this was literally the first time I have ever done this. Ever. I love how you all jump to conclusions here. I wasn't even rude to him either, my mother would be in the car waiting for me on a time restraint and I would tell him this. And he would still sit, on his chair, and talk to me about his new projects and show me his new snakes. Like please I did nothing.



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That was a whole lot of words..

Did you ever just directly say "Hey my mom is waiting in the car and I only have 5 minutes to get my food and go"?

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Originally Posted by HannahLou

That was a whole lot of words..

Did you ever just directly say "Hey my mom is waiting in the car and I only have 5 minutes to get my food and go"?

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Yes. Multiple times. "Hey my mom is in the car I have to go in like 10 minutes" My mom would have to text me to get me out of there. I just wanted mice.

My advice, go to the upcoming super show in Pomona this January and stock up there. I go to a breeder in Temecula with decent prices, but honestly I don't really see anything wrong with the texts you posted. He was a little abrupt, but it is the holiday season and even small business owners sometimes like to take vacations. I know my rat guy has been abrupt lately in texts, but I just assume he's on vacation since hasn't been in the last week or two either. Don't take it too personally, they're just trying to make a living.

My issue with Petsmart was that I got a mite infestation that I traced back to their frozen rodents a couple of years ago. You could try ordering from lll reptile if you're in socal since their distribution center is in Vista, but their rodents tend to be small.


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Originally Posted by gaitedappy

My advice, go to the upcoming super show in Pomona this January and stock up there. I go to a breeder in Temecula with decent prices, but honestly I don't really see anything wrong with the texts you posted. He was a little abrupt, but it is the holiday season and even small business owners sometimes like to take vacations. I know my rat guy has been abrupt lately in texts, but I just assume he's on vacation since hasn't been in the last week or two either. Don't take it too personally, they're just trying to make a living.

My issue with Petsmart was that I got a mite infestation that I traced back to their frozen rodents a couple of years ago. You could try ordering from lll reptile if you're in socal since their distribution center is in Vista, but their rodents tend to be small.


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How could you get mites from frozen rodents? Now I'm worried about my babies ahhhhhhh. They can survive the freezer?


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Originally Posted by Joshyboy

How could you get mites from frozen rodents? Now I'm worried about my babies ahhhhhhh. They can survive the freezer?


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The eggs can survive the freezing process and be, for lack of a better term, jump started on the other side of the digestive tract. I periodically spray my enclosures with zoo med mite off (it isn't chemical) as a preventative. If mites happen it isn't the end of the world, it's just annoying to get rid of.

I did buy from Kahoots for a while and didn't have issues, besides their feeders being small.


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Originally Posted by gaitedappy

The eggs can survive the freezing process and be, for lack of a better term, jump started on the other side of the digestive tract. I periodically spray my enclosures with zoo med mite off (it isn't chemical) as a preventative. If mites happen it isn't the end of the world, it's just annoying to get rid of.


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Yea I've had mites before and they were definitely annoying to get rid of. Lol understatement of the year


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Originally Posted by Joshyboy

Yea I've had mites before and they were definitely annoying to get rid of. Lol understatement of the year


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lol I think mine took a grand total of 4ish months to finally be rid of, luckily only one snake at the time haha


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Originally Posted by gaitedappy

lol I think mine took a grand total of 4ish months to finally be rid of, luckily only one snake at the time haha


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Mine took around that same time and about 5+ bottles of mite spray.


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Originally Posted by Joshyboy

Mine took around that same time and about 5+ bottles of mite spray.


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I don't even know how many mite products I went through, but there were weekly tank deep cleans.


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Originally Posted by gaitedappy

I don't even know how many mite products I went through, but there were weekly tank deep cleans.


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I sprayed the mite off or whatever product I used in water and soaked the snakes. I didn't even want to hold them I didn't want the mites on me. Even though I know they can't live on me it still made me itch. I feel bad on that time missing out on my babies [emoji24]


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Originally Posted by Joshyboy

I sprayed the mite off or whatever product I used in water and soaked the snakes. I didn't even want to hold them I didn't want the mites on me. Even though I know they can't live on me it still made me itch. I feel bad on that time missing out on my babies [emoji24]


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I went with the soaking a paper towel and then wiping down method since my boy is a butt when I put him in any holding tub.


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Originally Posted by gaitedappy

I went with the soaking a paper towel and then wiping down method since my boy is a butt when I put him in any holding tub.


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Mine were too but I just had to look away. I stayed in the room and just filled it low enough to where I felt safe enough to let them soak. I hope to god I don't get hem again from these damn petco mice


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I don't think I had a problem with petco, but I do know Petsmart for sure. I just didn't like the quality of petco feeders.


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Originally Posted by gaitedappy

I don't think I had a problem with petco, but I do know Petsmart for sure. I just didn't like the quality of petco feeders.


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What should I look out for


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I noticed them when Jynx started soaking all day about 2 weeks after the feeding. I think that is the most obvious thing at first, but I've heard if there is frequent handling they can be noticed then as well.


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Originally Posted by gaitedappy

I noticed them when Jynx started soaking all day about 2 weeks after the feeding. I think that is the most obvious thing at first, but I've heard if there is frequent handling they can be noticed then as well.


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Interesting


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Originally Posted by Joshyboy

Interesting


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Thankfully I only had to deal with them the one time.


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