Warning About Reptile Basics and Other Heat Panels

Hello everyone,

I wanted to share this information with as many people as possible as I feel it is crucial to get the word out about certain heat panels which have started fires in the past, and could potentially kill your snakes, destroy your home, or even kill you or your family in certain situations.

I recently purchased 2 heat panels from Reptile Basics. An 80W panel which I thought would be enough for my 70"X24"X15" cage with a fairly stable room temp of 75F. However after running the panel for a week or so I noticed that it was using A LOT of power to keep the temps up. It also would shut itself off when being supplied 100% power after only a few minutes.

I then bought a 120W panel. When I removed the 80W I noticed the plastic had "warped" from the heat. The 120W panel did not make much of a difference. The same exact thing happened with the warping, and also shutting off due to high temps. I emailed reptile basics, provided pictures, and they confirmed my setup/probe placement was correct.

After requesting a refund of the panels, reptile basics has refused and stated that "I am the only one having issues." I did some digging around online and found out this is not the case at all. They use the same heating element that has caused many other heating panels to catch fire over the years. Hence why they need the thermal fuse to keep them from overheating. However, this fuse does not make them safe either, hence why they cannot get UL/CL listed.

Here is an email from Bob over at Pro Products concerning the various heat panels made by Reptile Basics and other companies:

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Originally Posted by ProProducts

Marc,
These panels are not ours; rather it is the same panel that is sold by many other vendors under several different names, including Bean Farm, Helix, Avetec and others. They do out-gass strongly due to the fiberglass, plastic and epoxies used to make them and as with many products sold in our industry, there are no and never will be any actual clinical studies performed to see if the product may be detrimental to a reptile in a confined space, so our animals end up being guinea pigs. These panels are not properly designed and defy standard practices regarding how a proper radiant panel should be constructed.


The biggest concern with these panels and the heating element is that they are not UL or CE listed and the heating element used inside has a long track record of failing, shorting out and it can catch on fire. The shell can then be easily ignited. The element manufacture, Flexel, has had several law suits regarding this and the original US distributor (Aztech International) had to file for bankruptcy many years ago due to these problems. These panels, due to their materials and construction, would never be approved by any third party safety organization because of the risks they pose.


We routinely get calls from people who have problems with these panels and are aware of several cases where they actually have started a fire.


I am not trying to scare you or "bad mouth" the product, but it is not fair that products like these are sold in our or any industry and passed off as a safe product. Look around your house and try to find any electrical appliance that isn't UL and/or CE listed.
These are absolute facts that can't be disputed by anyone selling them. No matter what anyone says to the contrary, these facts are real and the potential risks are real. Not every panel may have a problem and it usually takes a while before the element starts to degrade, but these panels are ticking time bombs and do put your animals and your home at risk.


A picture of the heating element is attached (and info on the risks of some plastics, including ABS), so you can see that they attach the buss bar to the element using a sewing machine. This should cause concern for any intelligent person. This does not create a good electrical bond and creates variable resistance across the surface. This higher resistance creates heat, which then creates higher resistance, which creates more heat... and so forth. Eventually the bond fails which then causes a short, which can result in anything from the panel to stop working to a worst case scenario, causing a fire.

RBI (Reptile Basics) panels (also not UL or CE listed) use this same element and advertise that they use a thermo fuse for safety. First, if the panel was properly designed, it wouldn't need a safety fuse and secondly, even a fuse will not stop the element from degrading as described above. The fuse is required due to the poor panel design. By installing a heating element inside of an insulating plastic shell, it holds the heat in and will not release it efficiently. This results in much higher parasitic heat losses and higher internal temperatures. They had to add the fuse to allow the panel to fail when it gets too hot. If the panel were properly designed, it would never be able to reach a potentially dangerous internal temperature to start with.


Our Pro Heat radiant panels are the only panels sold that are UL, ULC and CE listed, ASTM E84<25 rated and we guarantee in writing that they can never cause a fire, burn or damage any surface they are mounted against and will not injure an animal. They are made of totally non-toxic materials and will never pose any health risk to you or your animals. They also outperform and outlast any other radiant panel sold. We only sell our panels directly through our facility, so they are not available through any retail vendor (with the exception of a couple of cage manufactures we work directly with), so if anyone is stating they have our panels, they are lying.
I am not trying to sound like an ad, but it isn't fair that anyone should be allowed to spend their hard earned money to buy a sub-standard product, especially if it has the potential for such devastating results. If we become better educated about such unsafe or poorly made products and demand that manufactures step up to the plate and eliminate these risks, we all will ultimately benefit.
Please let me know if you have any questions. If you would like to discuss this in greater detail, please feel free to call.

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I hope this information helps to keep others from wasting hundreds of dollars on inferior and unsafe heat panels as I have.

The 120W panel from reptile basics is $109.
The panel that Pro Products recommended from my exact setup + temps was only $135 with shipping. And it only uses 88W of electricity.

The only reason I went with Reptile Basics over Pro Products was I expected the price to be around $300 for one of their panels, and many people have not had an issue with their panels (yet.)

How are you mounting them? What does your cage look like? It is strange that 2 units would fail. Although I use ProHeat panels, I can't recall someone on here having a similar issue.


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Really interested in this thread... I was just about to pick up a cage with the a RBI heat panel.

Yeah I have 4 panels, 2 for 3 years the others for less than a year, and haven't had any of the issues listed, but that plus the amount of failures with RBI's THG heat tape is starting to make me question ever using their heating elements again...I can (barely) count on my hand the number of failures from RBI's heat tape in the past couple of months. Someone's entire collection got burned alive, another person lost a whole rack of tubs due to melting (luckily no animals were lost or harmed), and quite a few burned bellies with or without thermostats.

In the cases where the people contacted RBI, they were nothing but downright nasty, self-righteous, and refused to fix any problems.

I don't use RHPs anymore as I prefer flexwatt but one of my cages I got a Pro Products RHP and it has been going for almost 4 years now. I almost did RBI RHPs for my AP T10s when I ordered them but after talking with Ali, I just opted for flexwatt which is awesome so far. I don't think i'll go RBI ones and now this talk of their THG heat tape....man, I doubt i'll go with any RBI heating as well lol.

Although I do wonder how many of the "accidents" were due to misuse of the heaters on the customers end. I mean like a probe falling off the heat tape or a rhp being placed too close to a hide and overheating etc.

I mean it states that the RHP should have an air gap of 6" at least from any object. Well after Ali and I talked about the T8s and their actual inside height, along with say 1-2" of substrate, a 4" hide, and the thickness of the RHP itself, you were left with just under 6" of air gap which is less than the stated distance minimum. I also talked to RBI about it and they told me to place the hide off to the side of the RHP and not directly under it.

Not saying that the items in question weren't faulty but again, I wonder how much is on the customer end.

And to the OP, sucks what happened but to have 2 of them do exactly the same thing kind of leads me to believe you have some issue with mounting them or something else going on.

As for the response from RBI, there is no excuse there. They should have taken care of you and ran down exactly how you have them mounted and set up etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

I don't use RHPs anymore as I prefer flexwatt but one of my cages I got a Pro Products RHP and it has been going for almost 4 years now. I almost did RBI RHPs for my AP T10s when I ordered them but after talking with Ali, I just opted for flexwatt which is awesome so far. I don't think i'll go RBI ones and now this talk of their THG heat tape....man, I doubt i'll go with any RBI heating as well lol.

Although I do wonder how many of the "accidents" were due to misuse of the heaters on the customers end. I mean like a probe falling off the heat tape or a rhp being placed too close to a hide and overheating etc.

I mean it states that the RHP should have an air gap of 6" at least from any object. Well after Ali and I talked about the T8s and their actual inside height, along with say 1-2" of substrate, a 4" hide, and the thickness of the RHP itself, you were left with just under 6" of air gap which is less than the stated distance minimum. I also talked to RBI about it and they told me to place the hide off to the side of the RHP and not directly under it.

Not saying that the items in question weren't faulty but again, I wonder how much is on the customer end.

And to the OP, sucks what happened but to have 2 of them do exactly the same thing kind of leads me to believe you have some issue with mounting them or something else going on.

As for the response from RBI, there is no excuse there. They should have taken care of you and ran down exactly how you have them mounted and set up etc.

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The melted tubs review was from a person using and RBI rack system. They made the seats too short, causing the tub to rub against and lay bare the flexwatt over time causing the burnout. As for the others no clue.

It wasn't me but another keeper I can link their post on Tumblr if need be. Not sure if they posted on the BOI but it would probably say there.


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I as well am more interested in the set up.....
Almost any heat source will "fail" if not installed correctly or unregulated.
The question is, is it really a failure when it is doing its job to get hot?

Ah. So it was the fault of the tub/rack system, not actually the heat tape itself. That makes more sense as heat tape is pretty much just an on or off deal with voltage running through it if that makes sense.

And nah I believe you. I'm just saying, I bet a lot of people just plug these things in and figure everything will be fine. How many people have to seen here that don't even think of a t-stat for UTHs and just slap them on and plug them in and then wonder why it got to 120F+, cooked their snakes and discolored whatever it was sitting on lol.

I had a Zoo Med UTH short on me once and melt a small hole in the plastic/rubber coating material. It was under my dubia roach colony bin and luckily didn't start a fire. I was only using a lamp dimmer to run it too. That was my first experience with that happening. Definitely a wake up call to use a good quality t-stat with any UTH/heat tapes and any other heating source.

I'm really sorry for the OP that you went through this... I'd be exploding from the head in anger LOL. But I'm also very interested in what materials you are using and pictures of how you set up the RHP's. Having two RHP's fail in the exact same way makes me think there might be something else going on with your particular case, even though I'm sure reptilebasics have had bad products in the past.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CloudtheBoa

Not sure if they posted on the BOI but it would probably say there.


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The BOI thread would be the most reliable.

I have 4 or 5 layers of foil tape on the edges of my heat tape.
They are sacrificial so the tape doesnt really feel the rub of the tub.
I built my racks and didnt recess the tape, I just over think and always plan ahead.
Knock on wood, no wear or signs of failure in 5 years.

The mechanical side definitely makes me feel a bit better. I would hope after 3 years my panels would continue working if it was just the way they were set up. Iirc when I bought mine it came with clear instructions and warranty outlines with the panels so clearly if those were not followed that could set you up for failure...

My tubs have THG but they are standalone and do not move unless I'm cleaning or rearranging so no chance of rubbing it bare.

I can see if I can dig up a BOI thread for that one review if anyone wants to see it. If there is one it may not be linked on the post but it may also not be hard to find.


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Hi,

I'm sorry but I seem to have missed this - what kind of thermostat are you using to control them?

Is it a dimmer or a pulse proportional or simply an on/ off. :oops:

Wow, this is concerning to say the least. All my electronic equipment is from RBI since they've always been highly regarded.

I have two VE thermoststs running my two 80 watt rhps. I sure can't afford to replace everything.

What does everyone suggest. I am very worried now about a possible fire.

I don't think calling RBI would be beneficial.

What is everyone else with their products plan to do?? Do we just hope are equipment doesnt fail??

Very concerned!!

Well how long have you had yours going? Personally, I would imagine that if it was as common as the OP has had problems(2/2 failures with the exact same symptoms), RBI would have to do something as i'm sure they sell a lot of them and if they all failed exactly like that, they could be open to a class action lawsuit especially if hundreds of peoples houses burnt down.

I honestly think the OP has some issue with his set up to cause an 80 watt and 120 watt to put out the same amount of heat that he claims and warp exactly the same. To me it sounds like he had something under the RHP which was causing it to overheat and this warp and pop the fuse. But without details from the OP, its only guesses.

I have two 80watt reptile basics rhp hooked to 2 ve-200 t-stats that iv been using in my t8's one of which iv had for about 6 month the other iv had running for about 3 weeks and both are doing just fine holding very consistent temps. the only thing I have below the panel is a water dish and one of those half log hides but their is more than 6'' gap for air (trust me I measured lol)

I would love to see a pic of the set-up the OP had his panels in.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Well how long have you had yours going? Personally, I would imagine that if it was as common as the OP has had problems(2/2 failures with the exact same symptoms), RBI would have to do something as i'm sure they sell a lot of them and if they all failed exactly like that, they could be open to a class action lawsuit especially if hundreds of peoples houses burnt down.

I honestly think the OP has some issue with his set up to cause an 80 watt and 120 watt to put out the same amount of heat that he claims and warp exactly the same. To me it sounds like he had something under the RHP which was causing it to overheat and this warp and pop the fuse. But without details from the OP, its only guesses.

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Im feeling the same.

Id like to know more about how the OP actually had the RHPs set up. Something seems off. I know anything can have a problem and fail but if this was as large an issue as the OP is making it out to be I would have seen plenty of others saying the same thing by now.

My GTP cage has a RHP similar to that of the Reptile Basics with the plastic rim. I have had it since aprox June 2012. Since then it has been running non stop with no issues. I constantly check the hotspot it creates and the temp the panel reaches and it is always within a range Im used to seeing it.

I will say that I do like the look and thinness of the ProProduct RHPs I have in my large cage. Not that I dislike the other.

My newly ordered ETB cage is the same as my GTP just larger and I hope it serves me as well as the cage I have has.




Feels more like the OP just needed to vent. I don't see why they took the time to answer some of the profile questions, make that post, and then leave. I wonder if we will get an update about the ordered ProProducts RHPs from them.

My two setups have been running without any issues for7 months.

I've reached out to Rich with RBI to discuss this. Hopefully he can relieve my anxiety over this.

I've always used RBI products with no issues and alwsys got great customer service from them.


I was shocked when i read this thread. Was up all night with worry- not a fun night. I don't gave the fund to simply replace all my equipment right now

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Originally Posted by L.West

I was shocked when i read this thread. Was up all night with worry- not a fun night. I don't gave the fund to simply replace all my equipment right now

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I would not worry.
Personally without any response from the OP regarding their setup and the fact that it has happened to them back to back I would more suspect installer error....

I found it interesting that the this was the OP's first post on this forum and since he has not come back to answer any question or even logged on :confusd:

I emailed RBI and got a very fast response as I've always gotten.

They assured me that there is no known defect with their products.

So, I won't try to fix what isn't broken at this point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deborah

I found it interesting that the this was the OP's first post on this forum and since he has not come back to answer any question or even logged on :confusd:

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This

However I have heard a few stories of rbi panels failing and one of it melting down. Given these were third hand stories but I wouldn't write this one off just yet. Would be nice to hear the other side of the story.

I noticed this same user created an account on ssnakess.com and made a single post that is a copy of this one, the OP never responded to them either. I agree it seems like something in their setup is off... Here is my thought. I will sayPro Products panels are really nice, and they are pretty efficient, so design wise they live up to the hype, however Bob is a salesman, that is for sure, I have heard almost that identical speech over the phone with him, he starts by saying he doesn't want to bad mouth then goes on to explain why all other products are inferior. RBI and Helix panels are not made by the same MFG as stated in message. Each MFG uses different materials. RBI does use ABS, which isn't the best material to subject to heat because it will warp and become brittle over time, Helix uses fiberglass. There is nothing wrong with using a thermal fuse as a safety design as well, the following statement "First, if the panel was properly designed, it wouldn't need a safety fuse" doesn't make much sense. Going by that theory almost every electrical component must be improperly designed because they utilize fuses and thermal cut offs.... just my 2 cents.

It would be nice to know what type of enclosure and thermostat the OP was using.