GAME CHANGER: Half Mojave / Half WHS Scaleless

Credit: Freedom Breeder
See the official reveal here: https://www.facebook.com/freedombree...36432373087062
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...73658696_o.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...45715990_o.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...46642848_o.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...91214547_o.jpg

Game changer indeed, thanks for sharing.

A paradox scaleless? That's insane. :)

Holy moly. ................ crazy how scaleless just completely changes pattern and coloration.


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Chimera possibly?

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Originally Posted by Andera33

Chimera possibly?

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Yep. Post says half normal half Mojave I think it was. Scaleless line.

Wicked!!!:gj:

What the heck. That's incredible! :O

It is crazy, but I don't find it that appealing.

Wow, the contrast in texture is just as crazy as the contrast in color! I am curious though, is it a mojave scaleless/mojave het paradox or is it a scaleless/mojave het? Like does the scaleless part on this snake express the mojave morph or is it the wild type?

It looks like two face from batman. So unusual you cant look away.

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Originally Posted by Ba11er

It looks like two face from batman. So unusual you cant look away.

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Breeders post -" introducing the real Harvey Dent" or along those lines. Lol.

Wow.
Chimera was my first thought too.
One for the books; going to be famous.

Ok so I'm going to be a wet blanket here. I'm less excited with every version of the scale less I see. It's basically taking all the xantiphore aka yellow pigment out and replacing it with varying tones of greyscale. Take every animal that has bright vivid colors and turn them different shades of gray and grayer. So for me this is great for normal ball pythons but its a waste on Combos or morphs.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Ok so I'm going to be a wet blanket here. I'm less excited with every version of the scale less I see. It's basically taking all the xantiphore aka yellow pigment out and replacing it with varying tones of greyscale. Take every animal that has bright vivid colors and turn them different shades of gray and grayer. So for me this is great for normal ball pythons but its a waste on Combos or morphs.

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Could be true for most color mutations however there is still a lot of work to be done, I believe that Albino, Pied and Clown are where the wow effect will be for those into scaless BP.

Scaleless corns weren't so great either in the beginnings now that you see Albinos, Tesseras, Axanthics, Hypos it's a lot better.

To get back to the original while not a fan of the scaleless BP, this guy right there I would trade my kidney for, just because it is unique.


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Originally Posted by Deborah

Could be true for most color mutations however there is still a lot of work to be done, I believe that Albino, Pied and Clown are where the wow effect will be for those into scaless BP.

Scaleless corns weren't so great either in the beginnings now that you see Albinos, Tesseras, Axanthics, Hypos it's a lot better.

To get back to the original while not a fan of the scaleless BP, this guy right there I would trade my kidney for, just because it is unique.


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Maybe but again things like albino and even pied to some extent rely on color to make them stand out. Take the yellow out of an albino and what are you left with? Pied might be neat and clown yea. But so much of the market is based on vibrant colors these days that something that removes color while neat to me is a game changer. Well ok it is because now I don't want one AS bad as I did.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Maybe but again things like albino and even pied to some extent rely on color to make them stand out. Take the yellow out of an albino and what are you left with? Pied might be neat and clown yea. But so much of the market is based on vibrant colors these days that something that removes color while neat to me is a game changer. Well ok it is because now I don't want one AS bad as I did.

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If if does like scaleless corn the albino will be vibrant yellow. ;)



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Yeah the hypo cornsnakes *glow* with color that gets bolder as they age. I'd love to see a scaleless albino ball or pied, the pied scaleless could be fully epic. I just wish scaleless ball pythons had their belly scales the way corns do. I wonder what the underside of this one looks like.

I think the scaleless pied is going to absolutely shocking when it's made. With all the weird stuff pied AND scaleless do with color and pattern, I can't wait to see how it turns out. Also think an axanthic scaleless would be stunning, going off of the whole lack of xanthophores thing... just gotta wait and see I guess!

It's really odd... They have a line that goes down their stomachs that is I guess (from how it was explained to me) where the skin of the fetus converges and closes up after the development of internal organs. It's present on all snakes but is normally covered up by their belly scales. There are a couple pictures and videos floating around on the Internet.

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Originally Posted by piedlover79

I wonder what the underside of this one looks like.

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It's really odd... They have a line that goes down their stomachs that is I guess (from how it was explained to me) where the skin of the fetus converges and closes up after the development of internal organs. It's present on all snakes but is normally covered up by their belly scales. There are a couple pictures and videos floating around on the Internet.

EDIT: Oops, duplicate post. Tried editing the original and messed up I guess��

I've seen the underside of a normal scaleless I was wondering about this one being half normal. :)

So if this is truly a chimera and in theory carries double genetics- how sad would it be if the "strongest" gene was normal and that's all that turned out?!! Had to ponder that one and the odds.

That's pretty insane!

I truly mean no disrespect, i know this represents an achievement in selective breeding, but am i the only one who looks at this animal and thinks that there is something seriously wrong? I mean i suppose if its quality of life is as good as a normal counterpart, then there is nothing ethically or morally wrong in producing them, and i suppose its similar to a hairless cat (also weird imo), but i just cant shake the feeling that a perfectly good animal has been bred to the point of ruin here. Again, seriously not trying to start an argument, not passing any judgment whatsoever on those who likes this, honestly.

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Originally Posted by dkatz4

I truly mean no disrespect, i know this represents an achievement in selective breeding, but am i the only one who looks at this animal and thinks that there is something seriously wrong? I mean i suppose if its quality of life is as good as a normal counterpart, then there is nothing ethically or morally wrong in producing them, and i suppose its similar to a hairless cat (also weird imo), but i just cant shake the feeling that a perfectly good animal has been bred to the point of ruin here. Again, seriously not trying to start an argument, not passing any judgment whatsoever on those who likes this, honestly.

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I have to agree.

I fully respect and appreciate the efforts and finances that go into breeding projects such as this but scaleless do not a thing for me. I would take 100 wild types over 1 scaleless.




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I too am in the camp of not liking scaleless. The world in which I live, snakes should have scales. Again, I don't wish to diminish the efforts it took to produce this but to me, the draw of a scaleless snake is like looking at the Elephant man. It's not that it is attractive, it is just such an aberration that you can't look away.

That's the most unattractive BP I've ever seen. But, to each their own.

I personally kinda like my reptiles with scales. Not a big fan.

I love my scaleless corn snakes, but it makes thier color so much brighter and they still have full belly scales.

I like the look of the full scaleless ball python as opposed to this half scale though.

I prefer the full scaleless snakes. But this is still absolutely mind blowing!

Just gotta say this guy isn't a "game changer". The half n' half thing isn't genetic so guy isn't a game changer at all. Genetically he might even have normal scaly mojave bits.

I've gotta say I'm in the boat with the people who aren't a fan of this animal. I don't mind scaleless animals in their own right and I understand what this animal is genetically but just think, if you were the breeder and this animal hatched from an egg when you weren't anticipating scale abnormalities wouldn't it be more considered a genetic defect like a kink or the duck bill of a super cinnamon? To me it looks like someone covered half of its body with acid which left it disfigured... I know the breeder wasn't trying to get an animal like this but showing off as the next big thing doesn't seem right to me.

Just my 2 cents

that's an amazing BP. mind blowing!!

I will agree. It is very special. But it is also very NOT good looking. :/


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I agree that the genetics and developmental craziness that makes something like this happen are fascinating, but I can't get past thinking the snake kinda looks like a burn victim or something.

I'm also not really ethically comfortable with the idea breeding for scalelessness. Maybe a scaleless snake can lead a perfectly normal life in captivity. But I can't help but wonder if it's likely to be more sensitive to husbandry issues like the humidity range, scrapes or cuts or injuries from nose/head rubbing in amounts that wouldn't much affect a normal snake, infections, or just overall skin sensitivity to things like moisture, urine, substrates, etc. That's not to say they can't live perfectly decent lives if properly provided for, but if it makes them harder to provide for appropriately, that is not a good thing considering how popular they are as low-maintenance pets.

Yes, different "paint jobs" are mutations, too. But I see an ethical difference between a mutation that makes a superficial color change (think blue eyes or red hair on a human) and a mutation that removes a protective element of the animal's skin, particularly since they don't have belly scales like the scaleless corn/rat snakes do (I'm not wild about the ethics of the "wobble" morphs either).

Maybe I'm wrong and they'll turn out to be no less resilient than scaled ball pythons. But if not, you'll have people buying them at Petco ten or fifteen years from now thinking they're getting a fairly hardy, easy-to-care-for pet that turns out to be sensitive to all kinds of things and where even good advice about the normal care of its species doesn't cut it.

This snake is more appealing to me than a full scaleless, but probably because it's seriously one of a kind.. It makes me think of concept design where the artist intentionally splits a monster in half, like two fused animals. Which I guess is called a chimera. And this is actually a chimera. LOL

While full scaleless have always just reminded me of a worm, this half scaleless makes me think "frankenstein" or something intentionally designed, with that perfect split.

I'd love to own it, anyway. It's incredible.

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Originally Posted by Coluber42

I'm also not really ethically comfortable with the idea breeding for scalelessness. Maybe a scaleless snake can lead a perfectly normal life in captivity. But I can't help but wonder if it's likely to be more sensitive to husbandry issues like the humidity range, scrapes or cuts or injuries from nose/head rubbing in amounts that wouldn't much affect a normal snake, infections, or just overall skin sensitivity to things like moisture, urine, substrates, etc. That's not to say they can't live perfectly decent lives if properly provided for, but if it makes them harder to provide for appropriately, that is not a good thing considering how popular they are as low-maintenance pets.

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I can't speak for scaleless ball pythons, but scaleless corn snake are just as hardy as their scaled counterpart, they even did scientific studies and proved that they do not dehydrate or require different humidity ranges, nor are they pron to injury.

They can also live perfectly normal lives in the wild. Wild rat snakes, rattle snakes, hognose, and bull snakes have all been found in the wild as adult animals.

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Originally Posted by TurkeyPython

Just gotta say this guy isn't a "game changer". The half n' half thing isn't genetic so guy isn't a game changer at all. Genetically he might even have normal scaly mojave bits.

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Beautiful snake, congratulations! I am also guessing it's a chimera, which means it will be interesting to see what happens when you attempt to breed it. Since it is half and half, the gametes could end up being half scaleless and half mojave, or just one genotype. As with most chimeras, the offspring won't be nearly as exciting as the parent unfortunately, there's no way to replicate such a cool phenomenon.

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Originally Posted by piedlover79

I can't speak for scaleless ball pythons, but scaleless corn snake are just as hardy as their scaled counterpart, they even did scientific studies and proved that they do not dehydrate or require different humidity ranges, nor are they pron to injury.

They can also live perfectly normal lives in the wild. Wild rat snakes, rattle snakes, hognose, and bull snakes have all been found in the wild as adult animals.

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That is encouraging. But those do still have their belly scales. Maybe it matters and maybe it doesn't, to me the burden of proof should be on demonstrating that it doesn't adversely affect the animal rather than on proving that it does. Humans have a long history of continuing to breed animals for traits that we know have adverse affects and then being in denial about it.

interesting looking animal? yes. game changer? no.