Help my Pastel BP wont eat!!!

Hi Everyone!


My husband and I bought a Pastel Ball Python from a local PetSmart, BEFORE we knew about the abuse done to the animals that are sold there. Anyway, we have this ball python and it refuses to eat. We have been assist feeding it since we got it about 2 months ago, but it is losing weight at a rapid amount. He was 59 grams when we brought him home. He weighted in at 52 grams this week. He is setup the same as the rest of our snakes. He isnt very active. He isnt in shed. We are at our wits end trying to figure out whats wrong with it. We believe it is a male. All of our other snakes eat great! Great food response and sometimes even a little defensive strike or two. But our Pastel has absolutely no food response, hardly ever sticks out his tongue. Im supper concerned and worried for this little males health and vitality! Any and all advice and help would be REALLY appreciated! THANK YOU!!

Can you describe his enclosure? Temperature, humidity, hides, etc.

What are you feeding him? frozen or live? mice or rats?

How long did you have him before you started assist feeding? How many times have you fed him like that?

Waiting for 2 months before worrying is a long time for an animal that size that is being assisted.

Do this to a T http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-hatchling-101

And I mean to a T

[IMG]FullSizeRender.jpg[/IMG]He is in a 4-5 gallon terrarium, on coconut husk (ECODIRT) bedding. He has a hide, and small water dish. Temp on the "warm side" stays at 87 degrees F, cool side at 78 degrees F. Humidity is at 50%. He was being assist feed at PetSmart, F/T mice. He has been assist fed every week for the last 5 weeks. We have 6 other snakes who are thriving, and growing as they should. Cupcake is our problem child. When we bought him he was malnourished, we had several success assist feeds (note not force fed) but the past few attempts have had no result. Cupcake is not in shed, we have tried holding off for a few extra days, scenting with rats, leaving the mouse in for a while and coming back later. Our concern is that now that he isn't eating even with assistance that he will not thrive, and continue to drop grams.

It's not like we haven't been worried from the beginning, we have exhausted all options except for a Vet which will be our next step in all of this! Just trying to get feed back from people who have experienced this!

The vet won't be any help it a common issue with new owners and likely husbandry/stress related again do this to a T http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-hatchling-101

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Originally Posted by Ballsdeep1107

[IMG]FullSizeRender.jpg[/IMG]He is in a 4-5 gallon terrarium, on coconut husk (ECODIRT) bedding. He has a hide, and small water dish. Temp on the "warm side" stays at 87 degrees F, cool side at 78 degrees F. Humidity is at 50%. He was being assist feed at PetSmart, F/T mice. He has been assist fed every week for the last 5 weeks. We have 6 other snakes who are thriving, and growing as they should. Cupcake is our problem child. When we bought him he was malnourished, we had several success assist feeds (note not force fed) but the past few attempts have had no result. Cupcake is not in shed, we have tried holding off for a few extra days, scenting with rats, leaving the mouse in for a while and coming back later. Our concern is that now that he isn't eating even with assistance that he will not thrive, and continue to drop grams.

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Its likely husbandry issues.. Tank..way too small and hard to really regulate temps properly bc its too small (i kno this bc I tried this years ago w a hatchling in a 5 gallon, he was actually too hot in tht cage)....

What do you use to measure temps and humidity in this 4 to 5 gallon tank you have it in? Tell us all about your set up so we can try to help. And your pic above didnt wrk for me..cant see it. But if you are using round dial style gauges..trash them, they are crap... It was impossible for me to get a temp gradient like what you say you have in that small tank because its too small. So I am curious what gauges you use, how u heat it..etc.

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And how many hides does it have..they shld have 2.

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Have you tried a live baby mouse? Have you tuna scented a fuzzy? Have you brained a pinky? Are you offering the food before assisting? Is it hotter than body temp and dancing around the cage(never touching snake, snake comes to mouse)? Have you tried leaving it in the tank for awhile in a quiet dark place? Ive heard African soft fur is a good way to tempt a picky python ( admittedly never tried it).

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Hate to say it...but scenting a rodent w TUNA, a fish, which isnt even part of a ball pythons diet at all ever is not gonna work. They are not fish eaters.

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And african soft furs are a sticky thing to feed unless you KNOW you can continue to supply them. Ball pythons can be picky eaters and decide they dont want any other prey other than that soft furred rat. Only use soft furred if thats your only choice is my suggestion bc its just not likely you will find a steady supply of them, unless you want to breed them.

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OP should really respond to the thread they started and answer our questions on the snakes enclosure... Alot of times.. Not eating, is bc of the environment not being like it shld be. We can offer suggestions,but really, without OP to take part in discussion, isnt much we can do not knowing important specifics about its environment.

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In order for us to give you advice, it's much more helpful for us to see the enclosure that way we can go from there.

I'm curious about a follow up...


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The act of assist feeding itself could cause the snake to stay off feed, it's quite stressful for the snake. The fact that you are assist feeding and he's continuing to lose weight makes me wonder if there might also be a parasite issue going on? Just a thought.

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Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

The act of assist feeding itself could cause the snake to stay off feed, it's quite stressful for the snake. The fact that you are assist feeding and he's continuing to lose weight makes me wonder if there might also be a parasite issue going on? Just a thought.

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Doesn't surprise me, coming from Petsmart to be honest....


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jeanne

Hate to say it...but scenting a rodent w TUNA, a fish, which isnt even part of a ball pythons diet at all ever is not gonna work. They are not fish eaters.

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I saw the tip from BHB , apparently it changes the scent. I haven't needed it but they swore its a go to for baby pythons.

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Her snake isn't eating at all. I'd be surprised if you cant order frozen online and they're usually at expos.

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Originally Posted by Micki

I saw the tip from BHB , apparently it changes the scent. I haven't needed it but they swore its a go to for baby pythons.

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I'm not 100% because I'm still looking for the video, but I swear it was either the king snake or rat snake... or maybe a corn...

Definitely wasn't a ball python.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by KingWheatley

I'm not 100% because I'm still looking for the video, but I swear it was either the king snake or rat snake... or maybe a corn...

Definitely wasn't a ball python.


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Eh maybe but corn snakes don't eat fish either.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Micki

Eh maybe but corn snakes don't eat fish either.

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It was something! lol

I'm also tempted to add the Hognose in there as well


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by KingWheatley

I'm not 100% because I'm still looking for the video, but I swear it was either the king snake or rat snake... or maybe a corn...

Definitely wasn't a ball python.


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It looked like a hognose. Not sure but they were switching between the types all video.

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Personally I'd try a live rat pup. You could even leave it in there overnight, it's totally harmless to the snake. I'd bet money it would eat that right away. You'd have to find a local rat breeder or a pet store that sells live rats, you may want to call around.

I breed ASFs and they mature and open their eyes at a very small size, too small for a BP hatchling. And they are super quick and can jump like popcorn. I'd never feed one live, I'd probably lose control of it. I always do a fresh kill ASF when I feed them.

A mouse crawler would work depending on how you raise your mice. I find that if I have a large batch of baby mice they tend to be real small when they open their eyes. Ideally you want them with eyes closed so they don't pose a threat to your snake. If you raise only 4-5 babies on one female mouse (feed off or cull the rest when born) they grow to be super big and fat before they open their eyes. But ideally rat pups are the way to go, they get as big as an adult mouse before they even open their eyes. Once their eyes are opened I do a fresh kill feeding.

If you are feeding frozen thawed forget about it. Force feeding FT is not the way to go, you need to work up to FT. I'd stick with live or fresh killed first.

we believe it is the husbandry after further reading and your reply. we use a infrared temp gun to check all of our tanks, and keep a pretty close eye on the temps throughout the day.

[IMG]http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...er_1_thumb.jpg[/IMG]

Update:


Talked to some local breeders at a show yesterday. They suggested to put Cupcake into a small brown paper sack with a live rat pup, and leaving them together for a few hours. Well, it didn't work. But they also said that some snakes are just stressful, by nature. So don't know how to handle it from here....

Omg.... have you tried just leaving a baby fuzzy that's alive and just leaving it in there? The fuzzy couldn't hurt. It's better than not eating at all right?

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Originally Posted by Ballsdeep1107

Update:


Talked to some local breeders at a show yesterday. They suggested to put Cupcake into a small brown paper sack with a live rat pup, and leaving them together for a few hours. Well, it didn't work. But they also said that some snakes are just stressful, by nature. So don't know how to handle it from here....

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Have you done this to a T yet? Let me guess the answer is no.

Yes. We bought a live rat pup at the show yesterday. Brought it home left it in the container with Cupcake and checked 10 hours later, no luck! He did not eat it. The rat pup was laying on top of Cupcake!


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ballsdeep1107

Yes. We bought a live rat pup at the show yesterday. Brought it home left it in the container with Cupcake and checked 10 hours later, no luck! He did not eat it. The rat pup was laying on top of Cupcake!


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So that would be no what I linked requires husbandry changes, 1 week left completely alone and live hopper mouse.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

So that would be no what I linked requires husbandry changes, 1 week left completely alone and live hopper mouse.

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How long can a baby like that go without food though?

I just got done watching a video about a bearded dragon names sunny who had seizures and relapses because he was severely malnourished at the pet store they rescued him from. And eventually passed away.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by KingWheatley

How long can a baby like that go without food though?

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Depends, on a trouble un-started hatchlings out of the egg I usually don't intervene until 6 to 8 weeks after they hatched granted they have completely absorbed their egg yolk. Now the issue once you intervene and assist or force fed is that while they get some nourishment they also become overly stressed because of the procedure which can eventually kill them, which is why getting them on track and feeding on their own quickly is very important.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

So that would be no what I linked requires husbandry changes, 1 week left completely alone and live hopper mouse.

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Well then no haven't. We are taking him to the vet. The people we spoke with yesterday who are ACTUAL breeders, told us what we need to do. I would think that they would know what they were talking about.
Thanks anyway! [emoji4]


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ballsdeep1107

Well then no haven't. We are taking him to the vet. The people we spoke with yesterday who are ACTUAL breeders, told us what we need to do. I would think that they would know what they were talking about.
Thanks anyway! [emoji4]


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Well ok than.

I just wish I could be an ACTUAL breeder but hey I guess 10 years of doing this, troubleshooting the same issue years after years and producing over 100 hatchlings a year I still have a lot to learn sorry about that. ;)


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I would try a live feeding, a small fuzzy rat. Right now that baby needs nourishment. You can always switch back to ft after he is gaining weight and is on his way up. Try this after you check and make sure your husbandry is spot on. The vet is a good idea, and if the vet says hes ok then try the live, some just won't eat ft.

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Originally Posted by blue roses

I would try a live feeding, a small fuzzy rat.

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With trouble hatchlings mice will work better than rats they are more enticing than rats it has to do with the smell.

The issue is husbandry related (it's the case with 99% of new/inexperienced owner) but since the OP will not even try to make changes I am not sure he can be helped, a vet will not help either, probably will recommend tube feed which will be a HUGE step backward. (Not their fault since most vet have VERY limited hands on experience with hatchlings.)

As always you can lead a horse to the water :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Deborah

So that would be no what I linked requires husbandry changes, 1 week left completely alone and live hopper mouse.

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Left alone for a week with hopper or left alone for 7 days then a hopper?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Micki

Left alone for a week with hopper or left alone for 7 days then a hopper?

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Left alone for a week and than live hopper see link for more details.

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Why are you wearing a malnourished stressed to heck hatchling as a bracelet???

You shouldn't be handling AT ALL until he is eating on his own.

This snake has been under constant stress for months. At the pet store it was in a glass tank. Jostled around and handled alot. Petsmart allows pets so idiots where bringing their dogs (predators!) Near the display tank. Then the assisted feeding. Then you take him home. Set him up in another open glass tank. You've been handling and assist feeding. You tried putting the snake in a bag to feed it... of course it's not going to work. Strange environment more handing to get in the bag... too stressed.

You've been given a link with advice that can save this little guy. Twice actually.

Why not follow it?