Overfeeding, Or something else?

Hi, I'm a newer owner of a ball python (he's also my first snake, and my mom says I'm a worry wart), he's two years old, a rescue from a pet store, then another rescue from a friend. He's been eating live small rats, every five days due to him being underweight only being at 494grams. Which I know he should be doubled, although he doesn't look skinny, I just know everyone else's male ball pythons around the same age are at least more increased in weight than he is, and I don't want it causing a future problem. He's in a 45-gallon tank with cypress substrate a CHE and a UTH controlled by a thermostat. His warm temps are 86 which I know is a tad low, and cool temps are staying around 74, humidity is at a constant 67. Identical hides on both sides along with the water dish. That's all I can think of for his husbandry.
I recently noticed some raised scales that look curled up, around his neck and some closer to his tail and mid area. I read around and checked for mites under them but they look clean underneath, and he isn't spending too much time in his waterbowl so it can't be that. I read that it could be grow feeding, which could technically be what I'm doing with him just trying to get him up to the weight I feel he should be at, But does this cause an issue for my snake? Should I maybe stop feeding him so often, and allow his scales to go back down? I just wanted to get other's opinions on it. Here are some pictures (crossing my fingers they work)
http://i1380.photobucket.com/albums/...psz4lnnnhw.jpg
http://i1380.photobucket.com/albums/...psspysdvs1.jpg

1.) Your temps are too low. Anything below 75 is too low for the cool side, and the warm side should be at least around 88-90.

2.) Your humidity is too high with temps that low. The snake doesn't appear to be in shed, so your humidity should be between 50-60 at the highest for right now unless he has stuck shed, which he doesn't appear to.

3.) Based on the pictures you've posted, this unfortunately looks like scale rot to me. I know it's a weird question, but does it smell foul? Scale rot at that stage usually emits a moldy/rancid smell. If that's the case, he needs to go to a vet ASAP.

4.) Trying to help a BP gain weight by feeding every 5 days at that size is not a good idea. You are overfeeding right now and he isn't able to fully digest the last prey you've given him by the time you offer the next. How old is he? I would feed him every 10-14 days, and feed 10% of his body weight. I know the urge to bump up their weight is strong, but these guys are slow healers, and it must be done on their time or it could lead to worse problems.

5.) You said he doesn't look skinny. If this is the case, don't compare him to others' snakes. Perhaps he is OK at this stage? Either way, space out his meals.

I would take him to a vet regardless, as long as you can find an experienced herp vet in your area. Until then, make sure you adjust the husbandry as outlined above until then. The rot is most likely due to a combination of your high humidity and low temps. An adjustment should help. Good luck!

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Originally Posted by O'Mathghamhna

1.) Your temps are too low. Anything below 75 is too low for the cool side, and the warm side should be at least around 88-90.

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I know the temps aren't high enough, And I've been trying to get them higher. My next purchase is a lower watt bulb for the cooler side to help get that higher, and probably a bigger heating pad.

As for the scale rot, I've looked at a lot of pictures and information about it, and I know that his humidity is high for the temps he has. But there aren't any other signs other than just those scales, No pink belly, or patches of reddish brown on the underside. As for the smell, there isn't one other than just the substrate; everything smells fine including him. The substrate is dry, and the only dampness I apply is spraying his tank down twice, just fine misting. And the substrate dries out pretty quick after doing so, due to the screen lid and ventilation in my room.

I do however plan on taking him to the vet once I find a reputable one in my area, and because he's never been to one. But the visit may have to wait for a tad longer until funds are in my pocket.
I do plan on feeding him less often, writing the post made my mind up on that

The pictures just look like bent scales from being curled up.

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Originally Posted by Holly_Berry

I know the temps aren't high enough, And I've been trying to get them higher. My next purchase is a lower watt bulb for the cooler side to help get that higher, and probably a bigger heating pad.

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Just please make sure the heating pad is being regulated with a thermostat.

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Originally Posted by Holly_Berry

As for the scale rot, I've looked at a lot of pictures and information about it, and I know that his humidity is high for the temps he has. But there aren't any other signs other than just those scales, No pink belly, or patches of reddish brown on the underside.

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If you'd like to base your snake's health on pictures from the internet, that's fine. But as someone who is treating a snake with lots and lots of scale rot, ranging from mild to severe, and diagnosed as such by a reputable herp vet, I'm telling you I think it's scale rot. A pink belly has nothing to do with it; BPs get pink bellies when they're about to shed all the time. You generally won't see any other signs if it is scale rot unless its progressed to the bloodstream, in which case you will have other issues that a vet needs to look for. This looks like the early stages of it to me.

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Originally Posted by Holly_Berry

I do however plan on taking him to the vet once I find a reputable one in my area, and because he's never been to one. But the visit may have to wait for a tad longer until funds are in my pocket.I do plan on feeding him less often, writing the post made my mind up on that

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Feeding less is a good idea, and please keep in mind before you acquire any new pets, rescues or not, that if you don't have the money to get them the care they require, you should hold off until you are able. In the mean time a poor animal suffers despite the best intentions.

Overall, you are doing the right thing by coming here. But don't ask for advice and then refute it based on "pictures from the internet." We are here to try to help.

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Originally Posted by Fraido

The pictures just look like bent scales from being curled up.

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I can't tell if it's that, or the rawness from rot... Either way this guy needs to see a vet considering the other issues.

Should take some better photos, where the raised scales are clear.

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Originally Posted by O'Mathghamhna

Just please make sure the heating pad is being regulated with a thermostat.

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I do plan on taking him to the vet soon, I have a busy schedule, I just really want to make sure I have the proper funds in case meds, or any other treatment needs to have a bit more payment for them. I've spent the last hour or so researching for a vet around my area, and I believe that I've found a good one. I've been able to pay for everything he has needed in the past, but if this is going to be costly and if he can wait just two more days then I do want to make sure I can take him, and all of his needs be met both by me, and the vet caring for him. As I had said before, the UTH is being controlled by a thermostat. I'm not trying to base his health off of pictures found on the internet, but I've read through some stuff, and I just don't think it's that. Thank you for the help, though, I do appreciate the advice, and like I had said, I'm still working on his temps, but in the meantime, until I do take him, I'll make sure the humidity isn't too high. He'll be taken to the vet no later than at the end of the week.

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Originally Posted by Fraido

Should take some better photos, where the raised scales are clear.

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Good Idea! I'll try taking some more tomorrow when he's sitting more still, and there is better light.

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Originally Posted by Holly_Berry

Good Idea! I'll try taking some more tomorrow when he's sitting more still, and there is better light.

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This is a great idea. It's possible it's something else, but none of mine ever look like this except the one with rot. Just coiling shouldn't be causing this.

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Originally Posted by O'Mathghamhna

This is a great idea. It's possible it's something else, but none of mine ever look like this except the one with rot. Just coiling shouldn't be causing this.

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Do you think it could be from more excessive feeding though? The thing I had read said that sometimes because their belly expands, then the scales won't lay completely flat. Just wanted to ask about that.

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Originally Posted by Holly_Berry

Do you think it could be from more excessive feeding though? The thing I had read said that sometimes because their belly expands, then the scales won't lay completely flat. Just wanted to ask about that.

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Ehhhh.... I don't know to be honest. When he eats, does he have a large, very noticeable bulge in his body, or is he just kinda slightly more plump after he eats his prey?

From the first photo, it looks like what I've seen on my boa many times, scales bent from being coiled, it's usually a straight vertical line of scales though. Second photo looks more raw, it will be easier to tell when we've got better photos to look at.

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Originally Posted by O'Mathghamhna

Ehhhh.... I don't know to be honest. When he eats, does he have a large, very noticeable bulge in his body, or is he just kinda slightly more plump after he eats his prey?

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It's kind of a more noticeable bulge. I'm actually feeding him smaller rats than what he was eating before I got him though.

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I just wanted to say that this morning, I spent about 20 minutes looking over him, and I could not find the raised scales from before or any new spots on him. I still plan on taking him to the vet and getting his temps up, and the humidity a bit lower in his tank. Since I couldn't find the raised scales from before I'll just post a few pictures of him and see what you think. He is just a normal ball python (no morphs) and please just remember that I got him about two months ago, and so to me, he is entirely new.

http://i1380.photobucket.com/albums/...psu9lznuvi.jpg
http://i1380.photobucket.com/albums/...psyzotzyf7.jpg
http://i1380.photobucket.com/albums/...psmooi9b2d.jpg

Animal looks pretty healthy to me from what i can see in the last set of pictures. The scales can get bent when they coil or lay on or under something in a weird fashion. Think of it as a bad hair day. If the scales have smoothed back down and there is nothing else unusual going on you are fine. Scale rot is not just going to go away.

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

Animal looks pretty healthy to me from what i can see in the last set of pictures. The scales can get bent when they coil or lay on or under something in a weird fashion. Think of it as a bad hair day. If the scales have smoothed back down and there is nothing else unusual going on you are fine. Scale rot is not just going to go away.

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A good way to put it! A few days ago he had gotten stuck in his cork hide he had (key word had). I had noticed them raised after that. So I do believe it was just from that and eating, But I think he's okay now. Thank you for your input on the subject.

I wish I'd seen this post when you posted it because every bp will have bent scales like that occasionally from either being coiled up or caught on the hide or things around the viv and is absolutely nothing to worrie about. . Yes your temps are a little low but as you said your working on it. Make all husbandry like that your priority and get them sorted as soon as you can. I would also maybe not mist the viv so much if your holding 67% or maybe I just read that wrong.
As for the weight, all bps grow at their own rate but I would feed an appropriate size once a week and you'll be fine and he will put on weight at a normal rate.

No offence to others but IMO this post was totally taken In the wrong direction and there was no need to try and scare you or take such a drastic approach. This is my opinion anyway.

Good Luck

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Originally Posted by Scottywelsh

I wish I'd seen this post when you posted it because every bp will have bent scales like that occasionally from either being coiled up or caught on the hide or things around the viv and is absolutely nothing to worry about. Yes, your temps are a little low but as you said your working on it. Make all husbandry like that your priority and get them sorted as soon as you can. I would also maybe not mist the viv so much if your holding 67% or maybe I just read that wrong.
As for the weight, all bps grow at their own rate, but I would feed an appropriate size once a week, and you'll be fine, and he will put on weight at a normal rate.

No offense to others but IMO this post was totally taken In the wrong direction and there was no need to try and scare you or take such a drastic approach. This is my opinion anyway.

Good Luck

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I do agree with you, I dont think it's the scale rot, as I said, I've read so much on it. And even though my temps and humidity are low and high, I don't think that they're so bad that they would cause scale rot. Like I had said before, I do plan on taking him to the vet just to get a checkup since he's never been and since I don't know the actual gender. Thank you for your reply, It truly eases my nerves.

He's a cutie!

That could also be damage from eating live rats, my mice occasionally will bite my snake right before they pass out from being constricted, makes a small wound that heals up quickly.

I had a small ball python that was only getting fed a small mouse once a month, was really skinny, I'm surprised it survived for so long with so little food. I started feeding it three adult mice all in one sitting. Now he looks better so I cut back to once a week.

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Originally Posted by Scottywelsh

No offence to others but IMO this post was totally taken In the wrong direction and there was no need to try and scare you or take such a drastic approach. This is my opinion anyway.

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Yeah, this is exactly what I was thinking. I really don't think it's necessary to take the snake to the vet.

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Originally Posted by cchardwick

That could also be damage from eating live rats, my mice occasionally will bite my snake right before they pass out from being constricted, makes a small wound that heals up quickly.

I had a small ball python that was only getting fed a small mouse once a month, was really skinny, I'm surprised it survived for so long with so little food. I started feeding it three adult mice all in one sitting. Now he looks better so I cut back to once a week.

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Yeah, I had thought about it being the live prey, But we never leave him unsupervised. I always just after he constricts it, and when he shifts around to get a better bite on it. The thing is, is that it wasn't like a surface wound, just the scales were affected.

Before I got him, he had only been eating one medium rat a month, and I'm honestly surprised he was in such an okay health when I acquired him from her. He has such a fast strike after I put the rat into his tank that I just feel like he's famished still. When we first got him, I went ahead and gave him a med rat, but just felt that spending 35 minutes on getting it down was just too much, even though he didn't really seem to struggle that much. He now only spends about 15 minutes once he kills it.

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Originally Posted by Fraido

Yeah, this is exactly what I was thinking. I really don't think it's necessary to take the snake to the vet.

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Yup no vet. People on here have really good intentions however they can be a little vet happy. If they are unsure of what is going on they fall back on the take it to the vet thing. If I am not really, really sure about something I do not comment (unless i am playing guess the morph). I would rather give no information than wrong information. If the information I am giving is questionable or debatable I try really hard to be clear about that.

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

People on here have really good intentions however they can be a little vet happy.

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lol, I think you're probably right, although I suppose it's better than the alternative. On other forums I have seen home remedies for respiratory infections that just made me shudder.

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Originally Posted by Holly_Berry

A good way to put it! A few days ago he had gotten stuck in his cork hide he had (key word had). I had noticed them raised after that. So I do believe it was just from that and eating, But I think he's okay now. Thank you for your input on the subject.

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OK That would have been good to know. If their hide is too tight it can bend the scales, but I'm not sure it's possible for a snake to bend its own scales simply from coiling.

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Originally Posted by dkatz4

lol, I think you're probably right, although I suppose it's better than the alternative. On other forums I have seen home remedies for respiratory infections that just made me shudder.

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This. I was going off a blurry picture and using my own personal experience with the information given. Rather than depend on an internet forum I would suggest a herp vet any day of the week. I stand by my responses.

Aaaaanyway, if the scales have smoothed out, it was probably caused by the hide, which sounds like it might be too tight--I had a BP that got coiled so tightly in one of his hides I was unable to get him out until he was ready to come out. Then his scales were pushed up in one section. I followed advice I got here and ditched the hide, and the scales went back to normal... As far as just coiling up by themselves, without being against any surfaces that would restrict the scales, there shouldn't be any lifting. Hides should be small enough to make BPs feel secure, but not necessarily "snug," if that makes sense.

Glad the problem went away! As long as it doesn't resurface and you are comfortable with the feeding schedule he's on, a vet visit isn't necessary.

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Originally Posted by O'Mathghamhna

This. I was going off a blurry picture and using my own personal experience with the information given. Rather than depend on an internet forum I would suggest a herp vet any day of the week. I stand by my responses.

Aaaaanyway, if the scales have smoothed out, it was probably caused by the hide, which sounds like it might be too tight--I had a BP that got coiled so tightly in one of his hides I was unable to get him out until he was ready to come out. Then his scales were pushed up in one section. I followed advice I got here and ditched the hide, and the scales went back to normal... As far as just coiling up by themselves, without being against any surfaces that would restrict the scales, there shouldn't be any lifting. Hides should be small enough to make BPs feel secure, but not necessarily "snug," if that makes sense.

Glad the problem went away! As long as it doesn't resurface and you are comfortable with the feeding schedule he's on, a vet visit isn't necessary.

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Well and I should have thought of this before but he had one of those cork hides in his enclosure and he got kinda stuck and freaked out. But I took it out after it happened and got some smaller ones than the one he had. But he fits well into them. Thank you for your help. I'll still be taking him to the vet since my brought up a good point of not ever going. And it would make me more comfortable. Again. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Holly_Berry

Well and I should have thought of this before but he had one of those cork hides in his enclosure and he got kinda stuck and freaked out. But I took it out after it happened and got some smaller ones than the one he had. But he fits well into them. Thank you for your help. I'll still be taking him to the vet since my brought up a good point of not ever going. And it would make me more comfortable. Again. Thank you.

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Of course, and sorry for the misdirection. It was certainly not intentional :)

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Originally Posted by O'Mathghamhna

OK That would have been good to know. If their hide is too tight it can bend the scales, but I'm not sure it's possible for a snake to bend its own scales simply from coiling.

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When they are bent in a certain way it definitely does happen. It would happen to my boa all the time, she would be laying in a way that would cause a wrinkle and when she straightened out again there would be a line of bent scales.

In the first photo it looks exactly like that. In the second photo it looks like they simply got a little roughed up from trying to get out out of the hide. That's all.

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Originally Posted by Fraido

When they are bent in a certain way it definitely does happen. It would happen to my boa all the time, she would be laying in a way that would cause a wrinkle and when she straightened out again there would be a line of bent scales.

In the first photo it looks exactly like that. In the second photo it looks like they simply got a little roughed up from trying to get out out of the hide. That's all.

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This .100%.